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Speaker 1: Afternoon. Labor leader Chris Hopkins has apologized to mayors and

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Speaker 1: counselors for the way that the Prime Minister Chris Luxon

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Speaker 1: told them off this week when he told them to

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Speaker 1: reign in their spending.

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Speaker 2: It's all very well to describe a community swimming pool

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Speaker 2: as a nice to have if you have a pool

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Speaker 2: in your own backyard, most New Zealanders are not that privileged.

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Speaker 1: Labour's local government spokesperson care And Macanulty's with me. Now, Hey, Karen,

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Speaker 1: how are I'm very well? Thank you. Why are you

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Speaker 1: guys choosing to side to the council's over rate payers?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I don't think that's a fair question. I think

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Speaker 3: it's a case of the rating system is unsustainable. It's

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Speaker 3: not such a purpose. The government had a chance to

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Speaker 3: fix it and they didn't and the result is unsustainable rate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but why are you apologizing for a message that

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of rate players rapays would have been implording.

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Speaker 3: I'm saying that we're on the side of councils, we

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Speaker 3: want to fix the rating system, we want to work

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Speaker 3: with them. That would have been an appropriate message. Making

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Speaker 3: it harder for counts or is an impossible other than

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Speaker 3: just raising rates and then turning around and blaming councils.

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Speaker 3: That's worthy an apology. It should have come from Chris

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Speaker 3: lucky You well.

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Speaker 1: Karen, are you saying you don't think that councils are

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Speaker 1: doing anything wrong here with their spending.

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Speaker 3: I've sat with counsels, I've met with them all around

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Speaker 3: the country. I've seen the anks that they have had

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Speaker 3: to go through in their long term planning and the

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Speaker 3: effort that they've made to try and limit rates increases.

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Speaker 3: The fact of the matter is the rating system stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not agreeing with you on that. I'm not

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Speaker 1: disagreeing with you on that, but ratepayers up and down

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Speaker 1: this country are looking at the crap that they're spending

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Speaker 1: money on and we are very cross with them. And

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Speaker 1: we think a lot of us will think that what

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Speaker 1: Chris Luxon said was bang on. So why are you

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Speaker 1: apologizing for it?

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Speaker 3: What Chris Luckson is doing is shifting the blame and

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Speaker 3: responsibility from government onto councils, knowing that in two to

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Speaker 3: three years time, rates is going to be the biggest

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Speaker 3: issue facing the Karin.

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Speaker 1: It's not the government who's building living gardens on the

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Speaker 1: roof of the bus. Stop or spending eighty four thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars on a bike on Oriental Parade. That's the council.

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Speaker 1: They deserve the blame.

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Speaker 3: I can sit here all afternoon and you could list

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Speaker 3: out all the examples that you think is lacil spending

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Speaker 3: and we could agree on what that is, and yet

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Speaker 3: it won't make a dent in the fundamental issue facing councils.

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Speaker 3: This is the problem, is that the examples that the

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Speaker 3: National Party are giving and you're giving in others isn't

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Speaker 3: actually touching the surface when you've got over eighty percent

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Speaker 3: of the expenditure on roads and pipes and they still

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Speaker 3: can't afford to do it.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, I read, but is it not

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Speaker 1: fair for him to say, if you want more money

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Speaker 1: to deal with this stuff, you have to prove that

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Speaker 1: you can spend it wisely, which is what he said.

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Speaker 1: What is wrong with that?

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Speaker 3: That is not what he said. That is what they

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Speaker 3: subsequently said when they realize they missed the mark and

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Speaker 3: they actually offended people who have been working incredibly hard

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Speaker 3: to try and deliver for their communities. But the system's

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Speaker 3: broken and I've got no choice. If the government actually

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Speaker 3: followed the Recommendations of the Future for Local Government Review

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Speaker 3: and gave counsels other options. Then they might of a point,

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Speaker 3: but they dismissed it, called at work nonsense and the

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Speaker 3: only option that councils have is rapes. Now, I live

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Speaker 3: in a region where there are three councils and there

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Speaker 3: are two towns where they cannot build any more houses

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Speaker 3: because the wastewater system is at capacity and the council

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Speaker 3: has had to put up rates twenty percent in the

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Speaker 3: last two years. They still don't have the money to

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Speaker 3: do that. The system is stuffed.

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Speaker 1: Karen, you and I are not going to disagree about

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Speaker 1: the fact that the rating base is not sufficient, and

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Speaker 1: I mean even even coalition partners in this government want

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Speaker 1: to give them more money in GST. But from a

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Speaker 1: political point of view, are you guys making a smart

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Speaker 1: call to be backing the councils and the mayors instead

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Speaker 1: of backing the rate pays who are frustrated here?

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Speaker 3: I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think backing the

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Speaker 3: councils is backing the weight payers because if we don't

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Speaker 3: back the councils and change the system, it's rate payers

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Speaker 3: that suffer, and that's our point, this government had a

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Speaker 3: chance to do that and they dismissed it, and then

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Speaker 3: they turned around and blamed the councils. We say that,

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Speaker 3: we say that that is patronized and wrong, when actually

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Speaker 3: it's the government that sets the system that the council's

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Speaker 3: work in and they are the ones that missed that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Good to talk to you, Kieren. Thanks, thanks for your time,

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Speaker 1: mate there' Kieren mcinnaughty, Labour's local government spokesperson.

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Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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Speaker 1: They'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio