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Speaker 1: Good news for you, credit card Visa coming down. The

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Speaker 1: Commas Commission has this morning finally released a plan for

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Speaker 1: how they're going to deal with these excessive fees when

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Speaker 1: you go in, you know, you tap your card to

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Speaker 1: buy your chocolate milk at the dairy. The end result

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Speaker 1: is that we should all be about two hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixteen two hundred and sixteen million dollars better off. And

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Speaker 1: joining us now is the Commas Commission's chair, doctor John small John.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hey, good morning, Heather.

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Speaker 1: I love the sound of this. How do master Card

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Speaker 1: and Visa feel about it?

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Speaker 2: Oh, look, there's a lot of people who are not

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Speaker 2: very happy about it, and yeah, they are on the

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Speaker 2: list for sure. I look at this. I described this

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Speaker 2: as a balanced decision, which means that it is going

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Speaker 2: to annoy quite a few people. But what we're doing

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Speaker 2: here is taying cost out of the system. We've consulted

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Speaker 2: pretty widely on it, and we think that we've got

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Speaker 2: ourselves to a point where we can simplify these rates,

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Speaker 2: bring them down, and then once that costs out of

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Speaker 2: the system there next year we're going to look at

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Speaker 2: how to deal with the surcharging on top of that

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Speaker 2: lower cost BA, how much is.

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Speaker 1: It dropping as a proportion of what we're paying.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, the around about a quarter of the

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Speaker 2: total cost of accepting payments is coming out, So we

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Speaker 2: think about two hundred and sixty million a year out

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Speaker 2: of the out of the cost.

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Speaker 1: That's ending up with much framing it, aren't they.

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Speaker 2: There's Look, there's what's important here is that there's quite

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Speaker 2: a few people. To understand, it's quite a few people

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Speaker 2: in this chain that need a little bit of money,

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Speaker 2: but they only need a little bit each. So you know,

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Speaker 2: you've got the banks of serving the merchants, You've got

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Speaker 2: the town providers, you've got the payment service providers. So

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Speaker 2: what we're having for as a system where everybody gets

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Speaker 2: a little bit enough to keep them going, but the

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Speaker 2: end result was not excessive.

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Speaker 1: Now, something that you were kind of just touching on before,

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Speaker 1: how do you actually how are you going to make

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Speaker 1: sure that when I go to the dairy and I

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Speaker 1: do tap my card, that I am actually not paying

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Speaker 1: more than I'm supposed to.

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Speaker 2: So we do have power to regulate surcharges, and that's

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Speaker 2: what that's the next step after we get through this consultation.

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Speaker 2: Remember this is a draft decision. We're going to be

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Speaker 2: flooded with stuff in the new year and feedback from

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Speaker 2: people who so much we don't understand things, and you know,

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Speaker 2: so once we get through that and we get a

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Speaker 2: final decision on this, then we turned to surcharging off.

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Speaker 2: Whatever the cost base happens to be, we've got we

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Speaker 2: can put in rules about it. But it's also going

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Speaker 2: to be really important to set an expectation, I think,

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Speaker 2: for the public about what they can what they can

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Speaker 2: expect to be surcharged, and what seems excessive. So we'll

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Speaker 2: be relying heavily on public understanding of what's reasonable what's not.

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Speaker 1: Brilliant, John, thank you so much appreciated, doctor John Small,

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Speaker 1: Commerce Commission Chair. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.