Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from news Talk
Speaker 1: sedb OH Sunday morning.
Speaker 2: Don't you know?
Speaker 3: Lots of body just losing light. It's a lusty well
Speaker 3: the born Could that be Alloy Mac the name from
Speaker 3: a Jack Ball.
Speaker 4: I had a very good afternoon t If you have
Speaker 4: just joined us or welcome back? Should I say? I'm
Speaker 4: Tim Beverages. Is the Weekend Collective and this is smart money.
Speaker 4: By the way, if you missed the hour we had
Speaker 4: with Leslie from Trenton Hearing Leslie Smith, who's the head
Speaker 4: of audiology, you can go to any of the other
Speaker 4: hours of course, including politics. You can go and check
Speaker 4: out the podcast. Just look for the Weekend Collective, go
Speaker 4: to iHeartRadio and away you go. I do love a
Speaker 4: little bit of Robbie Williams. I'm not sure it was
Speaker 4: ever a huge fan of his until he did the
Speaker 4: Swing perfour months where he was live at the Albert Hall.
Speaker 4: And actually the guy sort of gets it so and
Speaker 4: I was wondering what is he doing these days? And he's, look,
Speaker 4: he's probably just my producer saying he should do more swing.
Speaker 4: And I said, I think Robbie's just spending his money
Speaker 4: which ends up being quite a nice seguey because he
Speaker 4: could tune into this hour and get some good advice.
Speaker 4: We have a new guest in the studio today and
Speaker 4: his name is Ben Brinkerhove. He's from Concilium is known
Speaker 4: as Concilium Partners. Did I say Consilium Partner Services? And anyway, Ben,
Speaker 4: good a, how are you going?
Speaker 5: Thank you, Tim, I'm feeling pretty good. Nice to be here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks, thanks for coming on. Hey, look, firstly, just
Speaker 4: tell us a little bit because it's good for the
Speaker 4: listeners to get a handle on who you are and
Speaker 4: where you're coming from. Well, I can hear a twang
Speaker 4: of an accent there, just just subtly. But you've been
Speaker 4: in New Zealand for a little bit of a little
Speaker 4: bit of time. When did you get here?
Speaker 5: I arrived to New Zealand, would you believe it? Into
Speaker 5: christ Church in January twenty eleven. Now that wasn't good timing, Not.
Speaker 4: Twenty eleven from the birth of my daughter, which was
Speaker 4: a month later and was just a few days after
Speaker 4: the earthquake. So he arrived in christ Church a month
Speaker 4: before I.
Speaker 5: Arrived into christ Church. My fourth daughter, Petra was born.
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness in early February. Oh wow, started a
Speaker 5: new job and suddenly city was broken. Yeah, gosh, that's
Speaker 5: the hell of a start. What made you come to
Speaker 5: New Zealand in the first place? Well, why does a
Speaker 5: man do anything? Really?
Speaker 4: Philosophy?
Speaker 5: Would you believe that there was a beautiful woman involved? Okay, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 5: would you believe that?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: So my wife moved over to America for about five
Speaker 5: or six years, but always wanted to move back to
Speaker 5: New Zealand. I had thought to myself that maybe once
Speaker 5: we moved over there we put down roots and that,
Speaker 5: and that we'd be able to stay. But you can't.
Speaker 5: You can't really take the key wei out of a girl.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: She was real eager to come back and raise our
Speaker 5: children here.
Speaker 4: And well, obviously you were great because you're still here.
Speaker 4: Why does a man do anything? I was actually thinking
Speaker 4: this is but of course for the love of his life.
Speaker 4: Of course, there we go and Concilient Partner Services. What's
Speaker 4: tell us about what you guys do? Yeah?
Speaker 5: So Concilium was started around twenty eleven when I got
Speaker 5: there with a couple partners, and the object was how
Speaker 5: could we create the conditions where it was easier to
Speaker 5: give great independent advice. You know, independent advice. It's the
Speaker 5: advice you get. We don't have any inducements. It's the Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's the advice you get. You get when the only
Speaker 5: one who pays you is your client. That's the best
Speaker 5: kind of advice. And it's difficult to give independent advice
Speaker 5: because you have to have to all your research, you
Speaker 5: have to do all your compliance, you have to do
Speaker 5: all your own marketing, you have to run your own business.
Speaker 5: So we try to make the conditions for independent advisors
Speaker 5: to thrive.
Speaker 4: Is it actually just is it hard to convince people?
Speaker 4: Were a suspicious a lot in New Zealand? And is
Speaker 4: it hard to convince people? Or what's the journey you
Speaker 4: go on when you when it comes to explaining what
Speaker 4: independence looks like and what it means and how can
Speaker 4: people can rely on it, etc.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a journey. I mean when I came to
Speaker 5: New Zealand, I had to get my head around the
Speaker 5: idea that in this country there was a huge web
Speaker 5: of term deposits and there is a big love of property,
Speaker 5: and there was less comfort around advice and around wealth management.
Speaker 5: And even if people were familiar with wealth management, they
Speaker 5: weren't necessarily using an advisor, or they kind of thought
Speaker 5: their advisor's job was to pick the right things rather
Speaker 5: than to give them a strategy to achieve what they want.
Speaker 4: It's because how much of the decision when you're giving
Speaker 4: independent advice. Of course it's advised, you're not how much
Speaker 4: of it the decision making is left up to the
Speaker 4: pliant And of course it is the decision, But a
Speaker 4: lot of people sort of want to be told what
Speaker 4: to do. They're like, well, what are you telling me
Speaker 4: to do? And you're like, well, we're giving you this information,
Speaker 4: we're advising of these options. I mean, how far down
Speaker 4: the driving the car for them? Do you do? Yes?
Speaker 5: So, when you're sitting down with someone to help deliver
Speaker 5: a strategy, the first thing you need to figure out
Speaker 5: with them is what they want and do you want.
Speaker 5: People are terrified of tim finding out that there's no hope.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're terrified of that.
Speaker 5: People hate the word goals, Like if I ask you
Speaker 5: what's your financial goal? Like you you know a little shudder.
Speaker 5: I hate that word goal because I think it's psychologically
Speaker 5: it's almost like I don't want to put the answer
Speaker 5: out into the universe because what if I actually don't
Speaker 5: don't achieve it, and I'm terrified of I'm not achieving it,
Speaker 5: So I'd rather just not have one.
Speaker 4: I reckon that would be incredibly common. I probably have
Speaker 4: suffered from that, or suffered from that myself, I think,
Speaker 4: and I think a lot of people listening would relate
Speaker 4: to that.
Speaker 5: It's I liken it too. When I was at university
Speaker 5: and I'd come out of an exam and someone would say, oh,
Speaker 5: how'd you do? And even if I thought I did well,
Speaker 5: I'd say, oh, I think I did okay. Yeah, why
Speaker 5: am I saying that I actually think I did better
Speaker 5: than okay?
Speaker 4: Well, you're being humble these a little both.
Speaker 5: I'm American, I'm allowed. I hate it the uh because
Speaker 5: I don't want. The last thing I want is to
Speaker 5: have actually done done uh, done badly and then have
Speaker 5: told someone I did well. So I think when you're
Speaker 5: creating a financial goal, there's this fear, there's this fear
Speaker 5: of setting h an objective and falling short of that,
Speaker 5: and so I think people just kind of cruise through
Speaker 5: a little bit without setting them and of course they
Speaker 5: end up where they end up, but maybe less than
Speaker 5: what they could have had if they thought about it carefully.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because how how well? Yeah, how difficult is it
Speaker 4: to set a financial goal? Because I can imagine that
Speaker 4: it would be a goal where it could constantly shift anyway,
Speaker 4: because maybe is the first thing. Just have some sort
Speaker 4: of goal. Let's have something we can work with, and
Speaker 4: then we'll start from there. No, you don't start with goals,
Speaker 4: Oh you don't, do you know what you start with?
Speaker 4: Tim You start with values. So values are tend to
Speaker 4: be enduring. Goals change your your life's circumstances change. Your
Speaker 4: parents may have left you an inheritance, maybe you lost
Speaker 4: your job. They're gonna be good and bad things that
Speaker 4: happened to you along the way. But your values and
Speaker 4: your values are there to set your priorities, and your
Speaker 4: priorities should reflect your finances.
Speaker 5: What I do with my money should reflect what I
Speaker 5: actually truly value in this life, and so often they don't.
Speaker 5: And if I don't know what your values are, how
Speaker 5: am I going to give you wise counsel so that
Speaker 5: you're actually making financial decisions where your life makes sense.
Speaker 7: Hmmm.
Speaker 4: That's an interesting one because when you mentioned that, I
Speaker 4: think if I was to talk to you, say, what
Speaker 4: are your values, and BlimE me. I guess the first
Speaker 4: thing that came into my mind when you mentioned that
Speaker 4: was I've got kids and I want to give them
Speaker 4: and hopefully I leave them something which gives them reason
Speaker 4: not to be so worried about their own financial features.
Speaker 6: HM.
Speaker 5: That's an incredibly important value. And imagine that you're talking
Speaker 5: to someone about that, and I'm asking you about your values,
Speaker 5: and I might ask questions like, well, what's important about
Speaker 5: money to you?
Speaker 4: And you're giving me a choice.
Speaker 5: You might okay, choice, and then I say to myself
Speaker 5: or say to you about what's important about choice? And
Speaker 5: you might say something about freedom. Freedom, Great, Well what's
Speaker 5: important about freedom? See, we're going deeper everywhere.
Speaker 4: And I'd say, do I have to explain that you do?
Speaker 5: Because you know, when you're in front of someone.
Speaker 4: Oh that's really interesting, I say. You just keep it's
Speaker 4: almost like the Socratic method and digging down to what
Speaker 4: you find. You just keep asking questions.
Speaker 5: Not my job to tell you what's important to you.
Speaker 5: It's not even my job to prioritize your financial decisions.
Speaker 5: It's my job to understand you as a person and
Speaker 5: who has values. Because if you have a strategy that
Speaker 5: reflects your view of the world, and that could be
Speaker 5: about your children. So let's say we get at the
Speaker 5: end of this process and you've total what you talked
Speaker 5: a lot about being a provider for your children. Then
Speaker 5: essentially your strategy financially needs to lead to outcomes which
Speaker 5: reflect that truth.
Speaker 4: Okay, I can imagine someone listening going, how on what
Speaker 4: do you mean values? Because I want to have I
Speaker 4: want to have a good investment strategy, because I want
Speaker 4: to travel when I'm older, I want to be able
Speaker 4: free to do what I want. And they don't see
Speaker 4: it as a value proposition. But what values does that
Speaker 4: normally boil down to?
Speaker 5: Freedom is a value absolutely? And what does financial freedom mean?
Speaker 5: Is that financial freedom from I don't have to work anymore,
Speaker 5: that's freedom from or is it freedom too?
Speaker 4: Because for some people they just don't want to worry.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think how much I wonder how many
Speaker 4: people don't worry about money, because I have a suspicion
Speaker 4: that you have to have quite a lot of money.
Speaker 4: Should I say more than quite a lot a lot
Speaker 4: of money before it ceases to be something that keeps
Speaker 4: you awake at night? Because people say I want I'd
Speaker 4: like to have another you know, I'd like to earn
Speaker 4: another fifty thousand a year or something, And yet as
Speaker 4: soon as they do that, their expectations and their values there, well,
Speaker 4: they spend that money pretty quickly. Is so, Actually, I
Speaker 4: don't know where I was going with that.
Speaker 5: I guess you're saying, how much money do I have
Speaker 5: to have until I no longer worry about money? And
Speaker 5: then you answer a question by saying, no, the more
Speaker 5: the more money I have, the more and more stuff
Speaker 5: I have, the more stuff I have to be I
Speaker 5: have to be mindful of and care for.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: I don't think you ever get to the bottom of that.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 5: In my view, if you have a lot of wealth,
Speaker 5: it means you have a lot of assets, and good
Speaker 5: stewardship of those assets is probably how you got there
Speaker 5: in the first place. So you never let yourself not
Speaker 5: care about how you steward your money.
Speaker 4: Okay, So what's the first thing you so you the
Speaker 4: first thing you want to do when you made a
Speaker 4: client is you just want to get to know them
Speaker 4: really absolutely.
Speaker 5: You want to ask a lot of questions if for
Speaker 5: your listeners, just I mean, I work with about one
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty advisory firms across the country. Financial advisors
Speaker 5: are my clients, as it were, and the clients of Concilium,
Speaker 5: and in some ways I'm like a business coach for them.
Speaker 5: I try to help them be the best is what
Speaker 5: they could be. I was a financial advisor back in
Speaker 5: the States. And here's a hint. If you're sitting down
Speaker 5: with a financial advisor and the financial advisor does most
Speaker 5: of the talking, then you're in front of the wrong
Speaker 5: financial advisor. Okay, the best financial advisors will ask lots
Speaker 5: and lots of questions and do lots of listening because
Speaker 5: you cannot devise a strategy until you know what matters
Speaker 5: to someone.
Speaker 4: Right, Okay, gosh, there's a lot to get my head
Speaker 4: around with that. Actually, by the way, have you noticed
Speaker 4: a change in the way New Zealanders are are viewing
Speaker 4: financial investment, because obviously we see the headlines around property
Speaker 4: are not as flash as they were. There used to
Speaker 4: be the time in New Zealand where we could do
Speaker 4: money and we'd get text saying, oh, just what do
Speaker 4: you mean to do? Just leverage and get into property.
Speaker 4: It's a no brainer. It feels a lot more complex
Speaker 4: now and now we've seen conversations shifting to I think
Speaker 4: Key was a bit more interested in shares and equity
Speaker 4: investments and other ways of investing. Of course, everyone wants
Speaker 4: to buy in Vidia twenty years ago.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean when it was a gaming chip maker
Speaker 5: that no one really knew about it, rightly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, and of course we've got platforms like Shares's
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. What's your take on shares's and
Speaker 4: the DIY sat of things. When you someone who is involved,
Speaker 4: you know, deeply in analyzing good investments and providing tell
Speaker 4: you a story.
Speaker 5: Back before I had any financial advising credentials, I was
Speaker 5: an economist, you know, for my sins. And I remember
Speaker 5: I went on to allocate my money, my my retirement
Speaker 5: money as an economist, and I logged on the platform
Speaker 5: and I went to choose between different investments. And you
Speaker 5: know what methodology I now as an economist, I had
Speaker 5: taken a lot of finance courses at university, Yeah I had.
Speaker 5: I had even taken a course on investing at university.
Speaker 5: And so I come out and I'm looking at a
Speaker 5: lot of various different options. And what I did is
Speaker 5: I sorted. I sorted the ones that did well over
Speaker 5: what I thought was a long time arison five or
Speaker 5: ten years, and I put them to the top of
Speaker 5: the list, and the ones that did badly. And you
Speaker 5: know what the investments that had done the very best
Speaker 5: in the I don't know previous five or ten years
Speaker 5: were they were financial financial companies. So and this was
Speaker 5: about like two thousand and six, two thousand and seven,
Speaker 5: and over the previous ten years, financial companies and banks
Speaker 5: and things like this had done fantastically well. Well, do
Speaker 5: you know what happened to financial companies in the in
Speaker 5: in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine.
Speaker 4: I think the I don't want to put it colloquially,
Speaker 4: but they didn't do so well.
Speaker 5: They did awfully. And I thought to myself, here I am,
Speaker 5: you know, having had some formal education being an economist,
Speaker 5: and I fell into the trap of it's done well,
Speaker 5: it will do well. I'm going to be smarter than
Speaker 5: everybody because I'm going to invest in the things that
Speaker 5: did well recently.
Speaker 4: It's a bit like becoming a fan of Manchester United
Speaker 4: at the end of their really good run, because I'm
Speaker 4: not sure if they're as good as they use anyway.
Speaker 4: I'm just that's not.
Speaker 5: Analogy for the Crusaders.
Speaker 4: Sorry I should have used that one. It's like, it's
Speaker 4: like putting all the money on the Crusaders this season
Speaker 4: because of seven previous wins without understanding actually there is
Speaker 4: an analogy for investment here though, isn't there? Isn't there well,
Speaker 4: because if you were to look at the Crusaders, they've
Speaker 4: had seven six I'm sorry Canterbury people, my apologies. I
Speaker 4: do kind of feel your paying because I love christ
Speaker 4: Church and I've got so many good friends and family
Speaker 4: down there. But anyway, nevertheles, I'm going to stick the
Speaker 4: knife in now. But is it fair to have in
Speaker 4: an analogy that you look at the previous seven years
Speaker 4: of the Crusaders and go, wow, those guys are winning team.
Speaker 4: I'm going to stick a lot of my money on
Speaker 4: the Crusaders this year without looking at the underpinning important
Speaker 4: facets of what made that such a successful team. And
Speaker 4: arguably there is one person who is now the All
Speaker 4: Blacks coach who's no longer there. And if you didn't
Speaker 4: know that, we're the difference between knowing and not knowing that.
Speaker 4: In other words, you look at successful company and there's
Speaker 4: something that's changed on I My analogy is going to
Speaker 4: fall over because you're going to point to other things
Speaker 4: that are the reasons that it was a bad idea.
Speaker 4: But anyway, you guys, I was going to say, look,
Speaker 4: if you'd knowne that Scott Robertson was leaving, then you
Speaker 4: might just be you might just hold back some of
Speaker 4: that money.
Speaker 5: So here's the thing about investing. What people look at
Speaker 5: mostly more than anything else, is recent good performance of
Speaker 5: the investment, either the share or the managed fund or
Speaker 5: whatever it is. And they will conclude to themselves that
Speaker 5: what has done well will do well. And I hate
Speaker 5: to burst anyone's bubble, but that is a awful way
Speaker 5: of selecting anything. There's many, many studies that show that
Speaker 5: recent good performance is not predictive a future performance.
Speaker 4: Well, it's also sounds like a disclaimer you often here
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 5: Well, there's disclaimers there for a reason. And the reason
Speaker 5: that disclaimer rest to be there. So many people believe it. Okay,
Speaker 5: it's and it's listen, and you think to yourself, if
Speaker 5: not for recent good performance, then what is the basis
Speaker 5: of selecting an investment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it is.
Speaker 5: It is a little bit confusing. But if you're going
Speaker 5: down the line of the do yourself or approach. Yeah,
Speaker 5: this is the approach that I think is most intuitively appealing. Unfortunately,
Speaker 5: there's not good information in it.
Speaker 4: Okay, So if you are interested, we're going to take
Speaker 4: we're going to take a break into right now. But
Speaker 4: if you are someone who's interested in the DIY and
Speaker 4: especially things like Chase's, and actually we should mention there
Speaker 4: are other companies that do the Shaza's thing, because we're
Speaker 4: going not just make this an in commercial by accident
Speaker 4: for Chairs's. But if you are wanting to make some
Speaker 4: of your own decisions on investing and you want to
Speaker 4: get in the share market, how are you making your
Speaker 4: decisions or investing or are you waiting with baked breath
Speaker 4: to see what Ben Brinkerhof from Concilium says after the break.
Speaker 4: But you can give us a call and pick us
Speaker 4: brains right now on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 4: You can text on nine to nine to two and
Speaker 4: we can do that right now. Jump on at twenty
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Speaker 1: Helping you get on top of your busy life, Tim
Speaker 1: Beverage on the Weekend Collector US Talk said, be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're hammering the swing now that we've mentioned Robbie
Speaker 4: Robbie Williams in a swing album. But right now it
Speaker 4: is a smart money Harbor with our friends from Concilium,
Speaker 4: actually one friend in particular, new guest on the show,
Speaker 4: Ben Brinkerhoff. Ben, we're talking about share z's. So you
Speaker 4: were talking about the questions that someone might ask. We're
Speaker 4: drilling down into people's values to understand what you're to
Speaker 4: help you create your investment goals. So, if you are
Speaker 4: someone who's just a diy kiwi who wants to use
Speaker 4: one of those share buying platforms, do you need before
Speaker 4: you what do you need to ask yourself? What do
Speaker 4: you just need to sit ten bucks in? Then start
Speaker 4: having a play around it. I mean, what would your
Speaker 4: advice be to how people would start making their own
Speaker 4: investment choices with platform platforms like shareess, et cetera.
Speaker 5: So I don't mean to be controversial, but I'd be
Speaker 5: telling people. I'd be telling people why why are you
Speaker 5: using chairs these? Here's the thing, uh use share these.
Speaker 5: You're encouraged to do one thing in particular, which is
Speaker 5: buy and sell individual companies. But why do you have
Speaker 5: more information about the price of a company, more insight
Speaker 5: about that than let me use it? Can I use
Speaker 5: an analogy?
Speaker 4: Let's say why I use a crappy analogy about the
Speaker 4: c I think you should.
Speaker 5: This is a better analogy, but a happy one about
Speaker 5: the crusaders. So you know, we've all we've all bought
Speaker 5: and sold things on trade me. I want you to
Speaker 5: imagine that on trade me, I listed a lawnmower and
Speaker 5: I had to tell you the number of kilometers of
Speaker 5: lawn at mode. I had to tell you how many
Speaker 5: times I've I've serviced the engine. I had to tell
Speaker 5: you the year in the make of the engine. I
Speaker 5: had to tell you all this information publicly discloses. You know,
Speaker 5: how many people need to bid on my lawnmower? Tell
Speaker 5: my lawnmowers probably fairly, two three, four five. Imagine if
Speaker 5: you had six or seven people all bidding on that lawnmower,
Speaker 5: with all the disclosure I gave, it's going to reach
Speaker 5: fair price pretty quickly. Well, New Zealand has like fifty lawnmowers,
Speaker 5: and we have hundreds of thousands of people all bidding
Speaker 5: on them. All of those companies, the insects fifty, all
Speaker 5: of those companies have to disclose all the relevant information
Speaker 5: to everyone at the same time, and everyone gets to
Speaker 5: analyzed and now they're gonna be different opinions on that.
Speaker 5: But the idea that the price is blatantly wrong, is nonsense.
Speaker 4: That is actually a pretty good analogy. So therefore, how
Speaker 4: on earth do you go about choosing a stock then,
Speaker 4: or choosing.
Speaker 5: Simply don't don't go. If you're sitting there choosing stocks,
Speaker 5: then don't do that.
Speaker 4: So if you're sitting there thinking Chazy's is fun and
Speaker 4: you had a few good luck things, then you're saying, well,
Speaker 4: you might want to reconsider your all investment strategy, full
Speaker 4: stopping absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 5: I mean I had a friend of mine who is
Speaker 5: with uh saving money for a home, and he had
Speaker 5: money with Chaer's Ease. Yeah, and I said, I said,
Speaker 5: I won't use his name. I said friend. I said, friend,
Speaker 5: you know that you have no idea what you're doing.
Speaker 5: And I paused and he looked at me. He said,
Speaker 5: you're right, I have no idea what I'm doing. I said,
Speaker 5: but listen, your home is important to you. So we
Speaker 5: ended up putting money in. He ended up putting money
Speaker 5: in something that is a far safer less. That means
Speaker 5: the prices go up and down far less, which he
Speaker 5: could build wealth with slowly towards it. And now now
Speaker 5: he actually owns a home. Right, So what if he had.
Speaker 4: Sounds so unexciting in a way, but it sounds exciting
Speaker 4: in the end.
Speaker 5: I gues, you want excitement, have go take fifty dollars
Speaker 5: and head the casino. Yeah, right, right, there's there's plenty
Speaker 5: of excitement there.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: If you want to build wealth, then don't speculate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so okay, if you want to get involved in
Speaker 4: the share market. Because we've had different investment advisors on
Speaker 4: the show and chatted with Martin Hores and he said,
Speaker 4: he said, of course your neck of the woods. But realistically,
Speaker 4: how easy is it for people to get good financial
Speaker 4: advice If you don't have some investment advisors they go
Speaker 4: with you because you've got fair chunk of equity or
Speaker 4: invest I mean, how does the average key where he's
Speaker 4: trying to get ahead, get that home deposit whatever, How
Speaker 4: do they make good decisions or get good advice about
Speaker 4: share investment?
Speaker 5: Okay, so that's it. Actually it's not even that complicated.
Speaker 5: You know, most of the most of the funds you
Speaker 5: might use for key server have investment options outside of
Speaker 5: KI Saver, so you could use those, and sometimes those
Speaker 5: are very inexpensive if you have very little I mean
Speaker 5: ten twenty thirty thousand dollars, you know, you might, you
Speaker 5: might avail yourself with some of those options, and the
Speaker 5: keys are you're going to be diversified, and so you're
Speaker 5: not your fortunes. And I can be writing on one
Speaker 5: or two or three calls which in which luck will
Speaker 5: play a far bigger role than anything else, and how
Speaker 5: things turn out for you.
Speaker 4: What I mean, if you have so if you have
Speaker 4: an interest in certain stocks, So just trying to narrow
Speaker 4: this down. There's something I was thinking about the other day,
Speaker 4: so for instance, and it was because of Invidia. Okay, sure,
Speaker 4: So if you were someone who thought, you know what,
Speaker 4: you know enough that you think these industries are really
Speaker 4: struggling right now, you might look at a particular class
Speaker 4: of investment you think, I don't like the look at that.
Speaker 4: I don't think I want to go into that. I
Speaker 4: really think that the future of there's going to be
Speaker 4: some really good growths in the tech industry in particular.
Speaker 4: So you're not going to try and pick the next
Speaker 4: in Vidia. But you might say, I believe that AI
Speaker 4: is an area where companies who specialize in that A
Speaker 4: good portfolio can you buy classes of investments as my
Speaker 4: christ and you tell me.
Speaker 5: Now here's the thing, what do what do you know
Speaker 5: tim that the market doesn't know? The market is a
Speaker 5: huge machine that processes the opinions of buyers and sellers,
Speaker 5: and not just any opinions, people that are willing to
Speaker 5: put their money on the line for those opinions. Does
Speaker 5: the market not know about AI? Does the market not
Speaker 5: know about technology?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: So, so as the market understands those things, that information
Speaker 5: gets priced in. Now not saying that the price is
Speaker 5: always right, but given the information we have today, it's
Speaker 5: the it's it's the best approximation of right we can have.
Speaker 5: And when new information comes, if that information is positive,
Speaker 5: prices will go up. If it's negative, prices will go down.
Speaker 5: The point is I don't have that information today. Here's
Speaker 5: a willing buyer and seller who will co werced, are
Speaker 5: willing to agree in a price. It's probably a reasonable
Speaker 5: price given they both have access to the same information.
Speaker 5: So what does someone learn when they go to a
Speaker 5: they go to a platform like like Chaer's these Let's
Speaker 5: say they do it really well and they picked some
Speaker 5: things that did really well.
Speaker 4: What do they learn well, they learned that they they
Speaker 4: made some good picks.
Speaker 5: I actually think they weren't. I think I think they
Speaker 5: because over over confidence is a thing. I think they
Speaker 5: think that they've got the answers. They have the answers, okay,
Speaker 5: Well what do they learn if things go badly? They
Speaker 5: may think, oh, this investing thing is this is for fools.
Speaker 5: It's just the biggest scene. I don't any part of it.
Speaker 5: So it goes well, they might learn the wrong thing
Speaker 5: and it goes badly. They might learn the wrong thing.
Speaker 5: When how do they learn in order to grow wealth
Speaker 5: over time?
Speaker 4: I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but when I was
Speaker 4: a when I was a teenager, I probably had a
Speaker 4: few hundred bucks, okay in a share company. I had
Speaker 4: a few probably fletchers, I think, and a company called
Speaker 4: Brierley's Sure. And during the course of my you know,
Speaker 4: I said, sixteen seventeen years old, I take up different
Speaker 4: cash offers and I'd earn thirty bucks in a weekend
Speaker 4: doing something. I put money into it. I don't know why,
Speaker 4: but it just became the thing that and actually those
Speaker 4: shares ended up when I was a student being worth
Speaker 4: about thirty thousand dollars from about five grand. And the
Speaker 4: worst advice I ever listened to was from my mum,
Speaker 4: who said, oh, don't worry about something and then you'll
Speaker 4: be fine, And I was thinking, I don't know, Mum,
Speaker 4: they feel like they're quite maxed out. I really should
Speaker 4: sell them. And if I had done that, I probably
Speaker 4: would have bought my first house the age of twenty two.
Speaker 4: And instead they went. Look. I still ended up. I'd
Speaker 4: made money on them. But you know what it did
Speaker 4: because I didn't really know what it was doing. All
Speaker 4: I was doing was judging how well I had done it,
Speaker 4: and I just felt I was getting the speed wobbles
Speaker 4: and I should have got off the bike and trusted
Speaker 4: my instincts. But you know what it did. It put
Speaker 4: me off the share market forever.
Speaker 5: That is my point.
Speaker 4: That's why I told you, because I thought it would.
Speaker 5: We absolutely need a country of people that feel comfortable investing,
Speaker 5: and they art to be investing by investing, not speculating.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's take some calls, and when we take the break,
Speaker 4: I'm going to ask you just for some private put
Speaker 4: on something. I need to get over that trauma still.
Speaker 4: But anyway, Hey, let's go to Andrew High.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Hi, We've got one question for your guest, is
Speaker 7: how how what do you think about the gray market?
Speaker 4: The what market?
Speaker 5: I think you said the greenmark?
Speaker 4: The gray market?
Speaker 6: What?
Speaker 4: What is? What is? Why do him know what that is?
Speaker 4: What's the gray market? Andrew? Can you tell us?
Speaker 7: Well, if you're an investor, you should know, and you
Speaker 7: know your associate should know what the gray market is.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well I don't know what it is. Do you
Speaker 4: know what he's talking about with the gray market? No,
Speaker 4: you'd need to you'd need to elaborate, Andrew, just for just.
Speaker 7: For he doesn't understand what the greenmarkes.
Speaker 4: Well, no, no, you should tell us what it is
Speaker 4: rather than just come out with some concept and having
Speaker 4: a cracket. Okay, see you later. Let's go to some texts.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, we're not doing a gotcha sort
Speaker 4: of thing. And if I think if Ben hasn't convinced
Speaker 4: you from what he's saying that he knows what he's
Speaker 4: talking about to a point, you know, I don't know
Speaker 4: what the point of that share was. Andrew, text me
Speaker 4: if you want to follow up on that with some
Speaker 4: further information. Right, here's some great texts. Hey, Ben, do
Speaker 4: you think there will be a place for financial advice
Speaker 4: and services in the future? Given AI offers a pretty
Speaker 4: good substitute.
Speaker 5: Oh what is AI substituting? Because I had the thing is,
Speaker 5: what AI will do is help us analyze data. And
Speaker 5: there's a lot of data in shares and I think
Speaker 5: a lot of fun companies like Harbor and others they're
Speaker 5: going to be using AI. But what AI will have
Speaker 5: struggled to do is to understand at a deep level
Speaker 5: the client and what they want and how their life
Speaker 5: circumstances change, and how to prioritize their decisions. You know,
Speaker 5: any goal has seven aspects to it, only one of
Speaker 5: which is what you invest in. You know, there could
Speaker 5: be what I say, what I spend, what my longevity is,
Speaker 5: how much I start with, how much I finish with.
Speaker 5: So prioritizing amongst those things is going to be an
Speaker 5: important aspect and that's very difficult. That's a very difficult
Speaker 5: problem for AI to solve.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually I think people we've got a long
Speaker 4: way to go before people are feeling confident with AI
Speaker 4: a full stop and a whole lot of things. Anyway,
Speaker 4: But I mean, is it a tool I mentioned as
Speaker 4: data analysis? That's what It's just absolutely amazing.
Speaker 5: AI will be able to take data and find answers,
Speaker 5: and I think intelligent people will use that in or
Speaker 5: to listen. If I was in front of you, Tim
Speaker 5: and your financial resources in front of someone that had
Speaker 5: the exact same age financial resources as you did, that
Speaker 5: person's the best financial plan that other person would make
Speaker 5: would be different than yours because they care about different things.
Speaker 4: Okay, right, let's take a break. We'll come back in
Speaker 4: just a moment. It's twenty two six News Talks. He'd be.
Speaker 2: Choose to do?
Speaker 5: How don't you?
Speaker 4: And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. We're still on
Speaker 4: Robbie Williams, but we have moved away from the swing there.
Speaker 4: But my guests Ben Brenkoff from Concilium Partners, Actually I'll
Speaker 4: jump in and just reference something we talked about off
Speaker 4: air there, Ben, when you were talking about that people
Speaker 4: make the mistake of thinking that what they need to
Speaker 4: do is make the right selections, and your comment was
Speaker 4: that the goal is really you need to The goal
Speaker 4: should be getting the best wisdom and sourcing the best wisdom.
Speaker 4: And there'll be people listening going, okay, so how do
Speaker 4: we source the best wisdom?
Speaker 5: What does that mean? Everyone focuses on the vehicle they
Speaker 5: never focus. They don't really focus on the destination.
Speaker 4: Yea.
Speaker 5: Right, So it's like, here's the thing, right, if I
Speaker 5: was if I was flying a plane and you and
Speaker 5: I asked you where you want to go? I should
Speaker 5: kind of know what kind of plane I have, and
Speaker 5: I should know what destinations they can get to, and
Speaker 5: then I should talk to you about where you want
Speaker 5: to go. So good financial advice is sitting there and
Speaker 5: helping someone understand what matters to them, yeah, and then
Speaker 5: looking at their resources, yeah, and the devising a strategy
Speaker 5: in which they can use their resources as intelligently as
Speaker 5: possible to achieve what matters to them. And if they
Speaker 5: can't achieve what matters to them, then helping them understand, well,
Speaker 5: what do I give up that matters to me the
Speaker 5: least or or, as often the case, you know, to
Speaker 5: do the biggest mistake. People that have too much money
Speaker 5: make tim You know, what are investments? Investments? You should
Speaker 5: almost think of them like an analogy, like their batteries
Speaker 5: and you go to the store. You buy batteries because
Speaker 5: you want to go home, you want to plug them
Speaker 5: into something. Except investments that just stay investments and never
Speaker 5: get used. It's kind of like having a whole heart
Speaker 5: full of batteries and taking them home and never plugging
Speaker 5: them in. And guess what, a person who dies with
Speaker 5: the most money isn't the happiest.
Speaker 4: Well that is so this is West. That does remind
Speaker 4: me of a certain value. I might talk to you
Speaker 4: about in just a second, but we'll take some calls
Speaker 4: because you have reminded me of the Yeah, I think
Speaker 4: there's a really interesting question somewhere in the middle of that,
Speaker 4: which I'll get to. But let's go to a call. Zain.
Speaker 6: Hello, Yeah, hi him. Look, I'm really enjoying listening to
Speaker 6: the both of you, and I was just really after
Speaker 6: some advice really or some guidance. I like the idea of,
Speaker 6: you know, building wealth. I've got three kids, young kids,
Speaker 6: teenage kids, dad married, and I'm at the stage of
Speaker 6: my life where I am thinking about building wealth, but
Speaker 6: I'm not sure how to do that. And yeah, just
Speaker 6: looking for some tips and guidance on that one.
Speaker 4: Okay, where you go.
Speaker 5: Being hizin, I feel like I'm talking to myself a
Speaker 5: little bit because I have four teenage kids and I
Speaker 5: understand exactly that kind of point of why where you're
Speaker 5: in and the first thing that everyone needs to get
Speaker 5: right is kiwisaver, and I talked to so few people
Speaker 5: that are getting it right. But if you're employed and
Speaker 5: you're maximizing your kiwisaver, then what you might be thinking
Speaker 5: about doing is ensuring that you're taking appropriate risk in
Speaker 5: your kiwisaver. And what I mean by that is if
Speaker 5: you have young kids, I imagine you might be in
Speaker 5: your thirties or forties, in which case you have multiple
Speaker 5: decades before you might be able to use that money,
Speaker 5: in which case you want when you want to be
Speaker 5: allocating aggressively or into growth funds. And then if you're
Speaker 5: trying to build long term wealth outside of that, then
Speaker 5: whoever you're working with in kiwisaver often have ways you
Speaker 5: can deploy that money outside of kivsaver and you can
Speaker 5: access it if you need it. Of course, you know
Speaker 5: that is a that is a broad description, but you'll
Speaker 5: be investing in something that's diversified and that will grow
Speaker 5: over time and in multiple decades when you're in your
Speaker 5: sixties wanting to use some of that money. You're never
Speaker 5: going to regret the fact that when you're in your
Speaker 5: thirties and forties, you're putting some money aside and giving
Speaker 5: yourself more choices.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's yeah, I really appreciate that advice. I am
Speaker 6: in my mid forties and you s about values and
Speaker 6: it is my kids, and it's just really thinking about
Speaker 6: like you're saying, you know, it's not really keen on
Speaker 6: the speculation aspect, but bring wealth and I'll take on
Speaker 6: board of that advice.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Thanks sign and being more aggressive.
Speaker 4: Hey, actually the thing is you can have what what
Speaker 4: about sitting your understanding, We'll get it. Being realistic about
Speaker 4: your goals because I think the attraction of people thinking
Speaker 4: they can pick the right stock is they're going to
Speaker 4: get that stock that's going to go through the roof
Speaker 4: because as opposed to what's realistic. Because if you're in
Speaker 4: your in your late fifties and you want to save
Speaker 4: more for your retirement, you might be thinking, oh, hell,
Speaker 4: I've got to make a lot of money quickly, but
Speaker 4: that's not necessarily realistic. How do you sort of navigate
Speaker 4: those territories?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's when people when people want to speculate on
Speaker 5: on investments, often it's because that's the answer to their problem.
Speaker 5: And they'll tell me about this share, that share, They'll
Speaker 5: tell me about this fund or that fund that's done
Speaker 5: well recently, and though almost be looking for confirmation that
Speaker 5: that's a good idea, and you know, I try to
Speaker 5: put that aside as quickly as possible and say, well,
Speaker 5: why why do you need? Why is that the answer?
Speaker 5: What's the problem we're trying to solve? What? What is underlying? What?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 5: What is the issue that you need a comfort about
Speaker 5: such that you think that that is the best possible answer. Yeah,
Speaker 5: And so once I once you actually can put the
Speaker 5: problem on the table, then you can think about, well,
Speaker 5: what is the best way, what's the realistic way, what's
Speaker 5: the best way to bring an answer to this so so?
Speaker 5: And that answer hardly ever, if ever, involves speculation.
Speaker 4: And it might not be the answer that you're necessarily
Speaker 4: seeking as well, but it'd be the answer that you
Speaker 4: can live with. I guess if because not everyone, I mean,
Speaker 4: there's not always going to be a fairy tale ending
Speaker 4: for people. But if they're not asking that question, I
Speaker 4: mean some of they might want to say, oh, look
Speaker 4: I haven't save for my ortoma. I want to save
Speaker 4: half a million.
Speaker 5: It'd be surprised him how often we live it. We
Speaker 5: do live in a prosperous country. I know not everyone
Speaker 5: is in a prospers first position right now. Yeah, but
Speaker 5: in this country, given the resources we have, if you
Speaker 5: have enough time, you absolutely can get to the point
Speaker 5: where you have a satisfying answer and and and far
Speaker 5: more often than you think. So there it is. It
Speaker 5: is possible. But it's not possible if you despair and
Speaker 5: you think, no, it's never going to be for me,
Speaker 5: and you put it off, put it off, put it off,
Speaker 5: because then your set of answers become narrow and narrower
Speaker 5: and narrower. All good answers take time.
Speaker 4: Actually, it's interesting you're talking about people who save that,
Speaker 4: you know, and they keep on hoarding that sort of
Speaker 4: nest egg and when they never spend it. And I
Speaker 4: think that there are a lot of people who battle
Speaker 4: with the idea of I don't want to I'll sum
Speaker 4: it up this way, Okay, I don't want to save
Speaker 4: to save up to look back on a life that
Speaker 4: I haven't lived because I've been so keen on saving money.
Speaker 5: That you'd be shocked about how often that's the case. People.
Speaker 5: People will leave a huge amount of wealth to the
Speaker 5: next generation. And the sad thing is is that's not
Speaker 5: their intention, that's just the outcome. You know. The chesshire
Speaker 5: Cats say, if you don't know where you're going, any
Speaker 5: road will take you there, and you're going to get
Speaker 5: to an outcome, right, You're going to get somewhere. The
Speaker 5: question is is that where you wanted to go? And
Speaker 5: and was fear or greed the basic motivator behind the
Speaker 5: decision or was it values the basic motivator behind the decision,
Speaker 5: and that your financial decisions made sense relative to what
Speaker 5: you really cared about, not only you, but you and
Speaker 5: your spouse.
Speaker 4: Okay, gosh, there's a hell of a lot of food
Speaker 4: for thought, there isn't there. I think we'll probably have
Speaker 4: to get you back sometime, but we'll be back just
Speaker 4: after the break. We being brink off from Concilium Partners.
Speaker 4: If you want to check out their website and their work.
Speaker 4: What's the what's the website address?
Speaker 3: Again?
Speaker 5: They have been www dot Concilium c O N s
Speaker 5: I l I U M dot co dot MZ.
Speaker 4: Excellent. We'll be back in just a moment. It's eight
Speaker 4: and a half minutes to six news talks here to be.
Speaker 2: Way so hardboard, Jay does history. There's a party downtown there,
Speaker 2: everybody had a partet.
Speaker 7: Everybody had.
Speaker 4: News talks. It'd be with Tim Beveridge. My guess is
Speaker 4: bringing Brinkerhoff from Concilium just quickly. By the way, the
Speaker 4: guy who caught up about gray matter. The gray market,
Speaker 4: not gray matter. The other expression for it is the
Speaker 4: dark market, which we're not going to touch on today.
Speaker 4: But Ben does know about that as well. It's just
Speaker 4: a matter of terminology and there we go. So don't
Speaker 4: get too excited about that. Hey, Ben, what do you
Speaker 4: want people to take away from this? Because I mean,
Speaker 4: obviously you you are in the business at Concilium of
Speaker 4: Financial Investment, But I mean you guys offer advice and
Speaker 4: solutions on key we save yourselves, don't you.
Speaker 5: What we do is we offer a key server where
Speaker 5: advisors can give you a portfolio that is specifically designed
Speaker 5: for you and so they don't have to you know,
Speaker 5: they could they could use Harbor for bonds, and they
Speaker 5: could use you know, Milford for Australasian equities. They can
Speaker 5: design a portfolio specifically to you and give you advice.
Speaker 5: And I think that a lot of the tension that
Speaker 5: we're we're talking about is people want advice. They don't
Speaker 5: know where to get it. They want independent advice, someone
Speaker 5: that represents them to the world of financial services, not
Speaker 5: the world of financial services to them, and I understand that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so if people want to go and check
Speaker 4: out the information you've got on kiwisaver, then they can
Speaker 4: go to Concilium dot co dot nz.
Speaker 5: And the keysaver scheme is kiwi rap, so you can
Speaker 5: also go to kwirap dot code dot nz.
Speaker 4: Excellent, Okay, fantastic, Hey mate, thanks so much for coming in.
Speaker 4: I hope and again sometime we had actually a lot
Speaker 4: of techs who have just said, here we go. Hey,
Speaker 4: great guest, great show, and lots of questions to follow that,
Speaker 4: but we'll have to solve those next time.
Speaker 5: A been sounds good.
Speaker 4: And thanks for everyone listening. Go check out the podcast,
Speaker 4: go to the week look for the Weekend collect on
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio thanks to my producer Joe Cochlan, and we'll look
Speaker 4: forward to your company again. Actually I'm back on tomorrow
Speaker 4: at midday, so we'll catch you again. Enjoy the rest
Speaker 4: of your evening, Catch you soon, wish Jack.
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