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Speaker 1: As well as congestion charge news. The government also rolled

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Speaker 1: out this new traffic light sanctioned system for wealthy yesterday.

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Speaker 1: The worst culprits are handed a money management card where

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Speaker 1: half the benefit can only be spent on essentials. Now,

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Speaker 1: the former Wealthy Expert Advisory Group member Pillow Riley's with

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Speaker 1: us on this feel very good morning to you moning Mike.

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Speaker 1: Does it address the malaise of those who can't be bothered?

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Speaker 1: Are there a lot of those? And does it make

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Speaker 1: a material difference?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably a sensible move, Mike. The idea when

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Speaker 2: we did the work through for Advising Group, the or

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Speaker 2: Philliy people say, don't have sanctions at all. What I

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Speaker 2: don't think that's sustainable. I think the public expects that

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Speaker 2: if you're not going to follow the follow the rules,

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Speaker 2: then you're going to get sanctioned. But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: you don't want those sanctions to hurt the kids and

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Speaker 2: the family of the person being sanctioned. So the idea

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Speaker 2: of saying, well, we'll let you have the money, but

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Speaker 2: you can only spend it on certain things in this

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Speaker 2: case probably groceries and debt and so on, I think

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Speaker 2: that's sensible because what you don't want to do is

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Speaker 2: hurt kids, and I think the government's trying to get

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Speaker 2: to that, and all the rest of the things are

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Speaker 2: putting in place around you can phone and they do

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Speaker 2: to cha out to Win's office, which is pretty dehuman

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Speaker 2: I thought when I looked at it, all of those

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Speaker 2: things I think are sensible. So those complaining about it,

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Speaker 2: I think need to just think about what's the other

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Speaker 2: side of us. In other words, taxpas paying for this,

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Speaker 2: What do they expect? Sure, because't it shouldn't just be

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Speaker 2: a free reign to go and do anything you like.

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Speaker 1: So you're arguing it's not beneficially bashing, it's not cruelty,

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Speaker 1: it's what you would expect in a transactional relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly when you think of that traffic like system,

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Speaker 2: so that it's not as it just comes out of

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Speaker 2: the blue. You're getting a warning, you're getting some capacity

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Speaker 2: to change and so on. The one thing I think, Mike,

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Speaker 2: where they might want to put some more thought and

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Speaker 2: is about getting work ready. What you don't want also

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Speaker 2: is that people turn up to a job and then

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Speaker 2: don't like the job and they spend in and out

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Speaker 2: of their job. So what the government didn't do much today.

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Speaker 2: The yesterday in terms are talking about it was getting

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Speaker 2: work ready, and I suspect that because the politics don't

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Speaker 2: play for them, they wanted to look to their crowd

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Speaker 2: yesterday about sanctions.

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Speaker 1: But which was my question. I mean, how many people

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Speaker 1: are actually the problem versus how much of this is

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Speaker 1: just hey, look we've done this and you can't argue

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Speaker 1: with it.

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Speaker 2: A little bit of both. Actually it's a bigger what

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Speaker 2: was under the last government, because sanctions had basically can't

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Speaker 2: wait to a large extent. You're seeing a startup and

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Speaker 2: this growth in the number of long term beneficiaries even

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Speaker 2: though the job market was actually very very tight. So

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Speaker 2: it does demonstrate the need of balance in this mic.

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Speaker 2: And I think, well, I think you under the one

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Speaker 2: thing that was happening very well under the last government

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Speaker 2: was the idea of at least building some capable skills.

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Speaker 2: So the idea of getting people a driver's license and

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Speaker 2: a site safety suspige it and so on, just so

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Speaker 2: they could go get a job in construction for example.

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Speaker 2: All of that I think is a really important part

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Speaker 2: of building the capacity for people to move off wellf here.

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Speaker 2: So most people do want to do that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there are some people who just want to stick around

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Speaker 2: and do nothing, and they should be sanctioned, of course,

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Speaker 2: But most people want a job, so we should have

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Speaker 2: a bit of yin and yang, and this about making

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Speaker 2: sure we can do both.

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Speaker 1: I agree. The problem the other day with the unemployment

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Speaker 1: figures is half the people who lost their job between

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Speaker 1: I can't remember sixteen or eighteen or eighteen or nineteen

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Speaker 1: or whatever, what they're doing with that, not in school,

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Speaker 1: with no qualifications. Unemployed. There's something fundamentally wrong, there isn't there.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it always happens when you get unemployment you see

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Speaker 2: in the public. Double that for young people, double it

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Speaker 2: again from our specific people, double it again for those

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Speaker 2: people living in rural and regional New Zealand. And that'll

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Speaker 2: be going on this time too. I'm sure the numbers

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Speaker 2: will demonstrate that they always do. So this is about

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Speaker 2: your absolutely right, making sure that our skill system provides

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Speaker 2: kids with work ready skills, which is about literacy, numerously

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Speaker 2: and so on digital skills. But it's also about activating

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Speaker 2: support systems for them because in every of the dead

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Speaker 2: fashion system is it's not going to turn her out

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Speaker 2: on a time to do that sort of stuff, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of it's about really buck six things as

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Speaker 2: a sad driver's lessons, some basic work ready skills, and

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Speaker 2: then turn up skills and where are uniform skills, customer

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Speaker 2: service skills. All of those things become quite important. And

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Speaker 2: I think WHENS in this case where those kids are

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Speaker 2: spinning straight back out into welfare, can do a better

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Speaker 2: job of doing some of that kind of work. I

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Speaker 2: know they already are doing it. Some great people inside

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Speaker 2: those wind's officers doing some of that work. I think

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Speaker 2: we need to do more of it because that'll build

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Speaker 2: an employer confidence about taking these kids.

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Speaker 1: On exactly well. Un felt appreciate it. Phill A Riley,

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Speaker 1: former Welfare Expert Advisory Group member.

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