1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Now there are concerns in O Targo about how much 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: new freshwater rules could cost. Federated Farmers of Targo reckons 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: it could be as much as one hundred and ten 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: million dollars for two small Otago towns, which equates to 5 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: around fifty thousand dollars per rate payer. This is a 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: case study. They've written to counselors district mayor's ministers demanding 7 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: that the information be made public. And eat Adore is 8 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: the general manager of Planning and Transport at Otago Regional Council. 9 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: And with us. 10 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: Now, Hey, Anita, hey, Heather, I mean, are they right? 11 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: Is it going to potentially cost that much money for ratepayers? 12 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: That's actually information we don't have. We haven't been provided 13 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: that by the city and District Council, so I genuinely 14 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: can't tell you, but I'd be surprised if it were 15 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: that much. 16 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: Do you have any idea how much these new rules 17 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: are going to cost anywhere in the in the region. 18 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: The challenge with the rules is they're going to impact 19 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: everybody differently, so there's not a uniform cost. So it'll 20 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: depend on when you need new content, whether you need 21 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: a consent at all. So there's a whole lot of 22 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 2: permitted activities that you won't need a consent for, and 23 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: then you know, so there's a bunch of different factors. 24 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 2: Also depends on what you're doing, so different landowners will 25 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: be impacted. 26 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: Different Presumably there will also have to be some some 27 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: changes in the way that that treated water is discharged. 28 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: Have you looked into how much that will cost? 29 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: So there will be changes in any sence. What we 30 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: will be asking out city industrict councilors is for standards 31 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: that mean that water quality is an impact because what 32 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: we know is our community really wants good water quality. 33 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: So that's what the plan is driving towards. 34 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: Let's just understand the rules are eater. So we've been 35 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: told that that Nightahoo's rules say that no water can 36 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: pass through a human body and then be discharged directly 37 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: into a body of water. Is that correct? 38 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: Look, I can't speak for Nightahoo, but it's not Notahoo's plan. 39 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: At sorc's plan, and at the moment the plan is 40 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: drafted doesn't say that. 41 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: What does it say about that? 42 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: Then? So what the plan does is that differentiates between 43 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: raw waste water basically treated and then a differentiates between 44 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: discharges to land and discharges to. 45 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Water and is treated water treated water able to be 46 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: discharged under the plan into water. 47 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 2: There's a consent pathway for it, so there's an an 48 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 2: ability to apply for a content if you get the consent. 49 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: Depends on the reason you're going to water, the treatment 50 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: options that you've got. You know that, you know if 51 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: there's a justification for why you can't discharge the land. 52 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: But there's absolutely a pathway there, and it just depends 53 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: on each set of circumstances. 54 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: Is that is there a preference to discharge onto land 55 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: rather than into water? 56 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, preference absolutely, yep, but not it's not an absolute. 57 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: But you if you you would only be granted the 58 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: consent to discharge into water if you cannot discharge onto land. Correct. 59 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: Not necessarily, It just it depends and it's one of 60 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: those difficulties without an application in front of a consense team, 61 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: it's really hard to determine. But all we can do 62 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: is say there's a pathway there, we've got a preference 63 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: for to land. But we're also really aware that in 64 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 2: Face is like Central Tago, it's leases for a whole 65 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 2: lot of the year, and so you can't judge end. 66 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: So you know, there's practicalities in the plan, and then 67 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: there's also the community expectations in terms of getting water 68 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: quality that we can drink, consume and. 69 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: You would accept you would accept anita that if the 70 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: consent was not granted to discharge into water when you 71 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: exist existing, you do discharge into water, there will be 72 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: a cost attached to that which could be quite significant. 73 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 2: Right absolutely, Okay. 74 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: Is the second part of the rules that you cannot 75 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: now take water from one water body and discharge it 76 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: into another water body. 77 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: So what we've got there is there's some policy direction 78 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: around cross mixing of waters, and basically what it says is, hey, 79 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: this is a thing that's occurred in the past, and 80 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: we know that it's going to occur, and it's really 81 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: hard to untangle, so let's not worry about that. Let's 82 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: try to avoid any of that happening in the future. 83 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: So it differentiates between what we already know is happening, 84 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: is existing supports, you know, So if you've got. 85 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: It worded, for example, that is currently taking water out 86 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: of one water body, one stream, let's say, and then 87 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: they're discharging into another stream and they're doing it already, 88 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: they can continue. 89 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: To do it so that can apply for consent, and 90 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: the plan will to apply for a consent. 91 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: Anita, the mere fact that they need to apply for 92 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: a consent suggests that you might say. 93 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: No, so most consents. Most people need consent to take water, 94 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 2: so that the contents for the tape for water, not 95 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: for where it's coming from and discharging too. 96 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: So are you telling me that, even if they're doing 97 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: this thing already, the moment these rules come in, there 98 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: will need to be a new application under these rules 99 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: for consent. 100 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: Absolutely, not just when the consent expires. There's a typical 101 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: in every content, So when there's a new policy framework, 102 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: there's a new set of considerations and it will be 103 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: assessed accordingly. 104 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: You said to me earlier that you don't have that 105 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: case study that somebody else has got, that case study 106 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: that Federated Farmers were referring to. Who's got it? 107 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: Don't know, don't know. I'd be speculating, and I don't know. 108 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: So is a whole bunch of district councils and city 109 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: councils and stuff doing their own case studies and looking 110 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: at how much things are going to cost potentially. 111 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: So part of what we do when we develop plans 112 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: is we're required to do some computation before we notify it, 113 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 2: and we did that in January and February this year, 114 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 2: and all of our five tas were through out of 115 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: a coffee. We've got some feedback from two of our tas, 116 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: but not all five. And I had a quick look 117 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: and I couldn't see that information in there. And the 118 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: situation in the Federated Farmers seem to describe as a 119 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 2: different peratory authority one we didn't get feedback from. 120 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean essentially what they want to know 121 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: Federated Farmers is what is in the latest draft of 122 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: the Land and Water Plan. When are you going to 123 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: make that public? 124 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're going to be public when it's notified 125 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: and we've been working. Well, it's subject to a council decision, 126 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: so we will be taking too council in October and 127 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: council will make that decision. 128 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: But don't the rules need to come in in October? 129 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: No, Well, the plan is notified and then you get 130 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 2: really technical and then old We'll say this very policy 131 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: wants saying that the rules will have legal effect. But 132 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: there's a natural justice presumption in the RAMA that says 133 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: if you're doing an activity today and it doesn't need 134 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,119 Speaker 2: a consent, and then you're going to do it tomorrow 135 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: and it might need a consent. Then we're not going 136 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 2: to make you get a consent until we've been righting. 137 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: So is that fair? So it's going to go to 138 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: Council and it's going to basically be enacted before anybody 139 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: who was affected by this stuff can actually see what 140 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: it says. 141 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: So lots of the groups have already seen it. So 142 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: as I said, which grades and very notification consultation. We 143 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: consulted fifty different parties, including Federated Farmers, and my staff 144 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: have been working with Federated Farmers on some day. 145 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: Okay, they've seen it. Have they seen the final draft? 146 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: Have they seen the latest draft? 147 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: I've seen the final draft. There isn't the final draft yet, 148 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 2: we're still working on it. 149 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: And okay, So that's what I'm asking you, though, Is 150 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: it fair that you guys work on this latest draft 151 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: and no one gets to see it who's affected by 152 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: it until it's basically enacted. Don't you think they should 153 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: see it beforehand and have a bit of a sail it. 154 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: Well, they've had They've had lots of saves. We've been 155 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: engaging on some of these aspects since twenty twenty. But 156 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: what's happened now is we're in the sets. They're part 157 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: of the process, and the rama sets without and we're 158 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: just doing what the roma sets out, so you know, 159 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: and that's a process question. And if we show it 160 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: to one party, we've got to show it to them all. 161 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you should, as you should. 162 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: Well, I've seen it a couple of times. Yeah, I 163 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: mean the good thing about democracy is that every of 164 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: those parties can submit on the plan and then a 165 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: hearings panel get to make deltment decision on what the 166 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: plan looks like. 167 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: All right, Hey, Anita, thanks for having a chat to us. 168 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thanks for explaining that's a need 169 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: to do. General Manager of Planning and Transport, Otago Regional Council. 170 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to satisfy anyone. Basically, the 171 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: rules are coming at you. It's gonna be pricey, but 172 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: you're only going to find out when they're enacted. 173 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to 174 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 2: News Talks it B from four pm weekdays, or follow 175 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.