1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talk ZEDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,653 --> 00:00:20,293 Speaker 2: So it's been called or thorexia, concerning disorder that's been 4 00:00:20,293 --> 00:00:24,932 Speaker 2: fed by social media influences and obsession over what we eat. 5 00:00:25,012 --> 00:00:28,492 Speaker 2: Nicky Bizantz as a food writer, author, nutrition expert. She 6 00:00:28,613 --> 00:00:30,973 Speaker 2: has penned a very good and very sobering article in 7 00:00:30,973 --> 00:00:34,613 Speaker 2: the New Zealand Listener on this and she joins us Now, Nikki, 8 00:00:34,732 --> 00:00:35,613 Speaker 2: very good afternoon to. 9 00:00:35,533 --> 00:00:36,693 Speaker 3: You, kidder. Hi. 10 00:00:37,333 --> 00:00:38,933 Speaker 4: What is orthorexia. 11 00:00:39,133 --> 00:00:42,492 Speaker 3: Well, it's a form of disordered eating. It is not 12 00:00:42,693 --> 00:00:46,653 Speaker 3: technically an eating disorder, although it's not technically recognized as 13 00:00:46,653 --> 00:00:49,172 Speaker 3: an eating disorder, although many of the experts in this 14 00:00:49,253 --> 00:00:52,852 Speaker 3: area are saying that it really is an eating disorder 15 00:00:52,853 --> 00:00:56,173 Speaker 3: in its own right now, and it's really around an 16 00:00:56,173 --> 00:01:03,413 Speaker 3: obsession with eating right, eating clean, eating everything perfectly. So 17 00:01:03,853 --> 00:01:07,173 Speaker 3: it's a very interesting one and quite you know, something 18 00:01:07,173 --> 00:01:09,253 Speaker 3: that we're seeing more and more spicial with social media. 19 00:01:09,773 --> 00:01:12,133 Speaker 4: Yeah, and do we have stats on how many Kiwis 20 00:01:12,133 --> 00:01:14,253 Speaker 4: are exhibiting orthorexia? 21 00:01:15,533 --> 00:01:19,253 Speaker 3: Have? No, we don't have sex At this point, it 22 00:01:19,373 --> 00:01:21,973 Speaker 3: hasn't really been measured because again, it's not an official 23 00:01:22,373 --> 00:01:25,573 Speaker 3: eating disorder yet, but it's probably somewhere in the in 24 00:01:25,613 --> 00:01:28,773 Speaker 3: the range of similar, maybe similar to anorexia, which is 25 00:01:28,893 --> 00:01:31,932 Speaker 3: which is around I think it's around four percent of 26 00:01:32,013 --> 00:01:34,812 Speaker 3: the population, so it's it's it's small but significant. 27 00:01:34,973 --> 00:01:37,372 Speaker 4: So how is it different from yoyo dieting that that's 28 00:01:37,453 --> 00:01:38,532 Speaker 4: existed for a while. 29 00:01:39,652 --> 00:01:42,693 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean some of the characteristics of orthorexia 30 00:01:43,013 --> 00:01:45,613 Speaker 3: can can pop up in people who are dieting, and 31 00:01:45,693 --> 00:01:49,013 Speaker 3: certainly a lot of if you see, you know a 32 00:01:49,013 --> 00:01:53,453 Speaker 3: lot of diet influences and promoters of diet will use 33 00:01:54,773 --> 00:01:59,172 Speaker 3: elements of orthorexic kind of thinking in their in their diet. 34 00:02:00,013 --> 00:02:05,013 Speaker 3: But the driver of this is really to be doing 35 00:02:05,053 --> 00:02:08,213 Speaker 3: everything perfectly in terms of what you're eating. And it's 36 00:02:08,253 --> 00:02:11,893 Speaker 3: not really driven by a desire to lose weight, right, 37 00:02:11,893 --> 00:02:14,333 Speaker 3: but to look a certain way. It's actually driven by 38 00:02:14,373 --> 00:02:16,653 Speaker 3: this idea that I have to be perfect, that I 39 00:02:16,693 --> 00:02:18,093 Speaker 3: have to be doing everything clean. 40 00:02:18,733 --> 00:02:22,252 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so these people, people are essentially being manipulated 41 00:02:22,293 --> 00:02:27,653 Speaker 4: by social media influencers and people posting stuff for engagement 42 00:02:28,013 --> 00:02:29,613 Speaker 4: and the next thing and the next thing and the 43 00:02:29,653 --> 00:02:31,853 Speaker 4: next thing of what you need to do is that 44 00:02:31,972 --> 00:02:35,173 Speaker 4: is that what's really pushing this at this you know, 45 00:02:35,333 --> 00:02:36,252 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty five. 46 00:02:37,173 --> 00:02:39,333 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's not that it's necessarily being driven 47 00:02:39,333 --> 00:02:42,293 Speaker 3: by social media, but it's it's being enhanced by social media. 48 00:02:42,333 --> 00:02:45,132 Speaker 3: So people have got this this tendency inside them, so 49 00:02:45,413 --> 00:02:48,773 Speaker 3: and it's becoming it's restricting their life. So it's becoming 50 00:02:48,853 --> 00:02:51,493 Speaker 3: something that's impairing the ability to live a normal life 51 00:02:51,653 --> 00:02:54,572 Speaker 3: and what they're seeing, what they're engaging with on social media, 52 00:02:55,053 --> 00:02:57,773 Speaker 3: and so then the social media algorithms are feeding them 53 00:02:57,813 --> 00:03:00,573 Speaker 3: more and more of this stuff is really making it worse. 54 00:03:01,413 --> 00:03:05,412 Speaker 3: So it's it's really it's something that I think social 55 00:03:05,493 --> 00:03:08,412 Speaker 3: media can really ramp up if it's already happening to you. 56 00:03:08,453 --> 00:03:09,853 Speaker 3: And that's true of all these and disorders. 57 00:03:09,893 --> 00:03:12,253 Speaker 2: Actually does this include And I've got people like this 58 00:03:12,333 --> 00:03:13,813 Speaker 2: in my life, Nick, you know, I imagine a lot of 59 00:03:13,853 --> 00:03:16,773 Speaker 2: people listening do as well. Where there is a health concern, 60 00:03:16,813 --> 00:03:19,693 Speaker 2: whatever that may be. It may be anxiety, it may 61 00:03:19,733 --> 00:03:22,972 Speaker 2: be another health concern that they someone just cannot get 62 00:03:23,013 --> 00:03:25,013 Speaker 2: on top of, and then they are told via social 63 00:03:25,053 --> 00:03:27,213 Speaker 2: media or whatever it is, that this is there's a 64 00:03:27,252 --> 00:03:29,333 Speaker 2: new product that is going to help you with that, 65 00:03:29,493 --> 00:03:32,933 Speaker 2: and they zero in on that and that potentially can 66 00:03:33,013 --> 00:03:36,053 Speaker 2: cause issues if they get too obsessed with that particular product. 67 00:03:36,973 --> 00:03:39,453 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And I have talked to people for this 68 00:03:39,773 --> 00:03:42,613 Speaker 3: story who have started. It started for them like that, 69 00:03:42,973 --> 00:03:46,773 Speaker 3: trying to solve a health issue, maybe not getting so 70 00:03:46,933 --> 00:03:52,173 Speaker 3: much resolution from traditional medicine or you know, from regular medicine, 71 00:03:52,173 --> 00:03:55,213 Speaker 3: and then you know, latching on to a diet plan 72 00:03:55,373 --> 00:03:58,053 Speaker 3: that claims to be able to solve this issue for them, 73 00:03:58,093 --> 00:04:00,693 Speaker 3: and then just becoming more and more obsessed. That's definitely 74 00:04:00,733 --> 00:04:02,213 Speaker 3: a pathway into authoix here. 75 00:04:02,253 --> 00:04:05,093 Speaker 4: I think now, I just we've always got to go 76 00:04:05,133 --> 00:04:07,653 Speaker 4: back steps here because of course we've read the article. 77 00:04:07,693 --> 00:04:10,653 Speaker 4: It's fantastic, But what is just to move back a step, 78 00:04:10,733 --> 00:04:12,373 Speaker 4: what is clean eating? A bunch of people on the 79 00:04:12,373 --> 00:04:14,773 Speaker 4: text machine are texting through asking that what actually is 80 00:04:14,853 --> 00:04:15,413 Speaker 4: clean eating? 81 00:04:16,813 --> 00:04:19,573 Speaker 3: Well, it's really around. I mean, it can mean different 82 00:04:19,613 --> 00:04:24,373 Speaker 3: things for different people. It's really you know, a kind 83 00:04:24,413 --> 00:04:27,533 Speaker 3: of extreme version of healthy eating. If you like, you know, 84 00:04:27,293 --> 00:04:29,853 Speaker 3: we know what healthy eating eating and eating a balanced 85 00:04:29,853 --> 00:04:32,813 Speaker 3: diet and white rice of food. People who are interested 86 00:04:32,813 --> 00:04:35,933 Speaker 3: in clean eating will be usually eliminating a lot of 87 00:04:35,933 --> 00:04:38,453 Speaker 3: foods or a lot of food groups from their diet 88 00:04:38,733 --> 00:04:42,093 Speaker 3: because of the perception that they have that there's something 89 00:04:43,013 --> 00:04:45,653 Speaker 3: you know, unhealthy about that food or that food group. 90 00:04:46,093 --> 00:04:48,693 Speaker 3: So I'm sure we all know people who don't eat 91 00:04:48,773 --> 00:04:51,613 Speaker 3: certain foods. You know, they might not eat gluten, or 92 00:04:51,653 --> 00:04:54,333 Speaker 3: they might not eat white flour, or they might not 93 00:04:54,533 --> 00:04:57,013 Speaker 3: eat meat. You know, there's all kinds of aspects to 94 00:04:57,053 --> 00:04:59,333 Speaker 3: it or different elements of it. So clean eating can 95 00:04:59,413 --> 00:05:00,733 Speaker 3: incorporate a lot of that kind of thing. 96 00:05:01,053 --> 00:05:04,373 Speaker 4: And what are the dangers? How does it manifest itself 97 00:05:04,413 --> 00:05:05,053 Speaker 4: as a problem. 98 00:05:06,373 --> 00:05:12,813 Speaker 3: Well, the dangers are can impair someone's life, like other 99 00:05:12,893 --> 00:05:19,133 Speaker 3: eating disorders, and so it can lead to anxiety, depression, 100 00:05:19,893 --> 00:05:24,093 Speaker 3: social isolation when it starts to impact on how because 101 00:05:24,093 --> 00:05:27,733 Speaker 3: you're eliminating so many different foods right, it can lead 102 00:05:27,773 --> 00:05:31,053 Speaker 3: to malnutrition. It can lead to other medical problems, and 103 00:05:31,413 --> 00:05:33,333 Speaker 3: severe weight loss can be one of them, and you know, 104 00:05:33,413 --> 00:05:37,693 Speaker 3: even things like organ damage. So it is potentially dangerous. 105 00:05:38,493 --> 00:05:42,053 Speaker 3: It's a psychological condition that has got you know, physical 106 00:05:42,093 --> 00:05:44,053 Speaker 3: impacts like other eating disorders. 107 00:05:44,173 --> 00:05:47,013 Speaker 4: It's also annoying if you're trying to spend time with 108 00:05:47,053 --> 00:05:49,813 Speaker 4: people like this. Is it time to start shaming people 109 00:05:49,813 --> 00:05:52,053 Speaker 4: for this? In the end, aren't they just annoying fussy eaters? 110 00:05:52,053 --> 00:05:54,973 Speaker 4: And we tell kids off for this kind of fussy 111 00:05:55,093 --> 00:05:56,053 Speaker 4: eating behavior. 112 00:05:57,333 --> 00:05:59,973 Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's probably shaming is probably not the 113 00:06:00,053 --> 00:06:02,373 Speaker 3: right thing to do in this case. It is a disorder. 114 00:06:02,853 --> 00:06:07,133 Speaker 3: So probably shaming someone it's only going to make them 115 00:06:07,333 --> 00:06:09,933 Speaker 3: become more isolated and turn away from you. I guess 116 00:06:10,733 --> 00:06:13,133 Speaker 3: probably there is a difference between someone who's just a 117 00:06:13,133 --> 00:06:16,093 Speaker 3: fussy eater and someone who has a disorder that they're 118 00:06:16,133 --> 00:06:18,373 Speaker 3: not really in control of. You know, like they can 119 00:06:18,413 --> 00:06:20,373 Speaker 3: start out being in control, and maybe they do start 120 00:06:20,373 --> 00:06:22,653 Speaker 3: out as just being fussy, and then it can progress 121 00:06:22,693 --> 00:06:25,253 Speaker 3: down a path where they really have lost control. 122 00:06:25,493 --> 00:06:27,653 Speaker 4: But if it's like that, if it's like the tenth 123 00:06:27,893 --> 00:06:31,013 Speaker 4: thing that they've come up with, because you know, if 124 00:06:31,013 --> 00:06:32,693 Speaker 4: you're like me, I always believe the last thing I've 125 00:06:32,733 --> 00:06:34,813 Speaker 4: read on you know, something comes up on social media 126 00:06:34,813 --> 00:06:37,133 Speaker 4: and you believe it and then you tell people about it. 127 00:06:37,573 --> 00:06:39,613 Speaker 4: And so if it's the tenth thing that someone has said, 128 00:06:39,693 --> 00:06:41,853 Speaker 4: now I'm not eating this because of this, and now 129 00:06:41,853 --> 00:06:44,893 Speaker 4: I'm not eating this because it's this, shaming might not 130 00:06:44,933 --> 00:06:48,533 Speaker 4: be the right word. But should we push back and say, 131 00:06:48,613 --> 00:06:51,173 Speaker 4: come on this three weeks ago it was this, and 132 00:06:51,173 --> 00:06:54,333 Speaker 4: now it was this, Come on, just have something to eat. 133 00:06:54,413 --> 00:06:57,453 Speaker 4: It's it's okay, it's fine. Just let yourself off the 134 00:06:57,493 --> 00:07:00,173 Speaker 4: hot let's go. You're making things difficult for yourself. You're 135 00:07:00,213 --> 00:07:03,853 Speaker 4: stressing yourself out with this clean, clean eating. Let's just 136 00:07:03,893 --> 00:07:06,013 Speaker 4: go for it. Eat like, eat what's in front of you. 137 00:07:06,093 --> 00:07:06,413 Speaker 1: Let's go. 138 00:07:07,693 --> 00:07:09,813 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that there's a lot 139 00:07:09,813 --> 00:07:14,773 Speaker 3: of disordered or orthorexic kind of thinking amongst people who 140 00:07:14,773 --> 00:07:17,373 Speaker 3: aren't who don't necessarily have acing disorders. Right, So we 141 00:07:17,413 --> 00:07:19,053 Speaker 3: see this and you probably see this in your friend 142 00:07:19,053 --> 00:07:21,293 Speaker 3: groups too, where people do get kind of a bit 143 00:07:21,853 --> 00:07:26,573 Speaker 3: fixated on particular ways of eating or diets or whatever. 144 00:07:26,613 --> 00:07:30,093 Speaker 3: And there is definitely room in our normal conversation that 145 00:07:30,413 --> 00:07:32,973 Speaker 3: for that kind of conversation to be a little bit 146 00:07:33,253 --> 00:07:36,613 Speaker 3: challenged because because diets, I mean, it's a whole other conversation. 147 00:07:36,733 --> 00:07:41,293 Speaker 3: But diets are nonsense. All diets, you know, any kind 148 00:07:41,293 --> 00:07:45,333 Speaker 3: of restriction in the way that you're eating is just 149 00:07:45,533 --> 00:07:48,133 Speaker 3: a marketing thing, and it's really not. They're not designed 150 00:07:48,173 --> 00:07:51,013 Speaker 3: to make us healthy. They're designed to make people money, 151 00:07:51,173 --> 00:07:54,173 Speaker 3: people who are promoted it promoting the diet. So so 152 00:07:54,453 --> 00:07:56,813 Speaker 3: you know, any kind of diet thinking, I'm always up 153 00:07:56,813 --> 00:07:57,573 Speaker 3: for a challenge on that. 154 00:07:58,533 --> 00:08:00,173 Speaker 2: I mean, is that part of it, Nikki, that a 155 00:08:00,253 --> 00:08:04,013 Speaker 2: nutrition just seems so confusing and it's it hasn't got 156 00:08:04,013 --> 00:08:06,813 Speaker 2: any less confusing that you know, one week it's okay 157 00:08:06,853 --> 00:08:08,813 Speaker 2: to eat better, then it's not okay to eat butter. 158 00:08:08,853 --> 00:08:11,413 Speaker 2: Then olive oils in vogue, and then there's something else. 159 00:08:11,453 --> 00:08:13,733 Speaker 2: But eggs are bad for you, potatoes are bad for you. 160 00:08:13,773 --> 00:08:17,453 Speaker 2: Kumera is back in. There's just so much misinformation or 161 00:08:17,653 --> 00:08:20,933 Speaker 2: weird information coming through. Clearly social media is to play, 162 00:08:21,173 --> 00:08:23,333 Speaker 2: but should there not be kind of a central hub 163 00:08:23,373 --> 00:08:27,293 Speaker 2: where people can just get straight up easy information on 164 00:08:27,693 --> 00:08:29,693 Speaker 2: what is going to be good for you and what 165 00:08:29,893 --> 00:08:31,813 Speaker 2: is just a bit of nonsense and you probably shouldn't 166 00:08:31,813 --> 00:08:32,653 Speaker 2: go down that route. 167 00:08:33,413 --> 00:08:36,892 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we actually all know what's the answer is. 168 00:08:37,213 --> 00:08:39,852 Speaker 3: We know what's healthy. And I mean I have been 169 00:08:39,933 --> 00:08:42,373 Speaker 3: running that food for like twenty years or more and 170 00:08:42,492 --> 00:08:44,213 Speaker 3: diets and I have seen it all. I've seen it 171 00:08:44,252 --> 00:08:46,652 Speaker 3: all come and go. Honestly, things come around and cut 172 00:08:46,732 --> 00:08:49,173 Speaker 3: and go around, and diets come and go, and they're 173 00:08:49,173 --> 00:08:50,813 Speaker 3: all pretty much the same thing dressed up in a 174 00:08:50,852 --> 00:08:54,573 Speaker 3: difference and a different you know, disguise or a different 175 00:08:54,852 --> 00:08:58,093 Speaker 3: there's good different spokesperson. But it's usually the same. But 176 00:08:58,132 --> 00:09:00,732 Speaker 3: we know what is healthy. We know that we should 177 00:09:00,773 --> 00:09:03,933 Speaker 3: eat a wide variety of food. We know that we 178 00:09:03,933 --> 00:09:07,293 Speaker 3: should eat mostly whole foods, fresh foods, you know, lots 179 00:09:07,333 --> 00:09:11,852 Speaker 3: of plants. Too much, processed food, not too much. You know, 180 00:09:11,933 --> 00:09:14,453 Speaker 3: sugar or fat or salt. We know that stuff. But 181 00:09:14,533 --> 00:09:17,293 Speaker 3: it's just that we get very distracted by all of 182 00:09:17,293 --> 00:09:19,412 Speaker 3: these people on social media telling us, no, I've got 183 00:09:19,413 --> 00:09:21,333 Speaker 3: the answer, you should eat this and not eat that. Yeah, 184 00:09:21,933 --> 00:09:23,772 Speaker 3: but I actually think that in our heart, we know 185 00:09:24,293 --> 00:09:24,973 Speaker 3: what's good for us. 186 00:09:25,093 --> 00:09:27,573 Speaker 2: Yeah, Nikki, great to chat with you. Thank you very 187 00:09:27,653 --> 00:09:30,453 Speaker 2: much and we'll catch up again. So that is Nicki Bizant, 188 00:09:30,492 --> 00:09:33,252 Speaker 2: food writer, author and nutrition expert. You can ever read 189 00:09:33,252 --> 00:09:35,492 Speaker 2: of that article on The New Zealand here, a website 190 00:09:35,533 --> 00:09:36,772 Speaker 2: and also in the listener. 191 00:09:37,252 --> 00:09:39,893 Speaker 1: For more from News Talk sed B. Listen live on 192 00:09:39,973 --> 00:09:42,933 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 193 00:09:43,012 --> 00:09:45,573 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.