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Speaker 1: Another messy week for industrial relations. Nurses took two days

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Speaker 1: off of course, and now the government has weighed in

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Speaker 1: over seeing your doctors. They want mandatory arbitration between Health

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Speaker 1: in New Zealand and the union. After twelve months are

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Speaker 1: basically going nowhere. Some mean Browns a health minister of course,

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Speaker 1: and it is with.

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Speaker 2: Us morning, good morning mate.

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Speaker 1: So they've got till four pm today to respond to

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Speaker 1: you're confident or not we.

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Speaker 2: Look, I hope they do the right thing and support

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Speaker 2: binding arbitration. It's been twelve months of negotiation, there's been

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Speaker 2: the Employment Relations Authority involved facilitation. The latest offer was

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Speaker 2: rejected by the union on Monday and they then immediately

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Speaker 2: started balancing their staff for another strike later this month.

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Speaker 2: Ultimately that would mean more Keyi's missing out on the

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Speaker 2: care that they are entitled to, and so I'm asking

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Speaker 2: both parties to agree to binding arbitration to resolve this

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Speaker 2: issue so we can move forward and put patients first.

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Speaker 1: The gap, as you understand it is that gargantuan large small.

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Speaker 1: Is there a problem or not?

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Speaker 2: Well, Look, I think the union's put a very very

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Speaker 2: significant and to request on the table. Health New Zealand

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Speaker 2: has tried to address those with a range of issues.

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Speaker 2: They've tried to put tried to address a range of

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Speaker 2: the union's issues such as retention and hard to staff

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Speaker 2: hospitals with payments to staff who work in those more regional,

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Speaker 2: remote areas. They've addressed issues such as junior doctors becoming

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Speaker 2: senior doctors effectively currently get a pay cut, removing those

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Speaker 2: bottom bands so that those doctors progress in their pay

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Speaker 2: and increases in the bands over time as well. So

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Speaker 2: Health New Zealand's tried to address that with the offer.

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Speaker 2: It's been rejected and so ultimately the way forward in

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Speaker 2: my view and the government's view, is to have binding

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Speaker 2: arbitration so that both parties can come together. Independent arbitrator

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Speaker 2: determines the case and puts forward a recommendation which both

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Speaker 2: parties are then bound by.

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Speaker 1: Can't remember, but it was this year. What was the

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Speaker 1: other one you were involved with?

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Speaker 2: This?

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Speaker 1: Was it the nurses that went off to arbitration.

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Speaker 2: Well, the nurses have had facilitation and they've had health museums.

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Speaker 2: I've been working through that with them. They've strike that

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Speaker 2: has been strikes this week. I've been encouraging both parties

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Speaker 2: to get back to the bargaining table, which I understand

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Speaker 2: they will following yesterday's strikes, which is the right thing

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Speaker 2: to do. Ultimately, my key message is striking is not

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Speaker 2: the answer. Striking impacts patients who have already been waiting

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Speaker 2: far too long for the care that they need. We

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Speaker 2: have too many people waiting too long for elective surgeries

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Speaker 2: such as hips, knees, cataracts. We've made good progress this year.

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Speaker 2: Those waitlists are coming down, which is fantastic and his

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Speaker 2: testament to the hard working doctors, nurses, surgeons, But we

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Speaker 2: have to keep putting patients first, settle these disputes and

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Speaker 2: move forward in the best interested patients.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we just have laws that say you get

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Speaker 1: two cracks, four cracks, whatever, and after that you're off

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Speaker 1: to mediation full stop.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there certainly is a need to look

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Speaker 2: at this, and I know that the Minister of Public Services,

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Speaker 2: Judith Collins, is looking at a range of things in

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Speaker 2: this space. But what I'm doing is what I can

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Speaker 2: with the powers that exists, and effectively trying to persuade

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Speaker 2: both parties to come to the table agree to a

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Speaker 2: process which then binds them to an outcome so we

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Speaker 2: can move forward in the best interest of patients.

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Speaker 1: You're losing the political debate on this because health is

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Speaker 1: supposed to be off the political radar and it isn't.

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Speaker 2: Look I think what we're trying to do here is

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Speaker 2: to find a way through. We are making good progress

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Speaker 2: for patients this year, we're seeing those wait lists drop.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately my key message to the unions is striking

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Speaker 2: isn't the answer. We need to find a way through this,

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Speaker 2: and that's what I'm putting on the table.

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Speaker 1: I have a good weekend, appreciate it. Health Minister, Summing

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Speaker 1: and Brown, the Judaic Colin things interesting. You probably it

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Speaker 1: wasn't covered properly. But defense has changed. They change or

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Speaker 1: will change the law on defense so military can now

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Speaker 1: serve in administrative roles if there is a strike. And

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Speaker 1: Labour's been asking a lot of questions in the House

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Speaker 1: of late over you know, are you going to change

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Speaker 1: the laws around striking? So some is afoot and if

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Speaker 1: it is, that's good. I probably don't have time to

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Speaker 1: talk to Judith about it after seven o'clock, but maybe

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Speaker 1: if time allows, will give it a crack because we've

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Speaker 1: got the war to deal with.

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Speaker 2: For more from the mic, asking Breakfast.

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