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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and

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Speaker 1: global exposure like no other.

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Speaker 2: On the Huddle, Trish Sharson of Sherston willis PR. Joe

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Speaker 2: Spagani of Child Fund, Hi are you guys? Hello?

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Speaker 3: Hello Trish?

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Speaker 2: Why do you think these ladies of the banks are

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Speaker 2: so keen on the tax?

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Speaker 4: I don't know the reason for speaking up on the tax,

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Speaker 4: but the one thing that I do back them both

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Speaker 4: on is that we do need business New Zealand, business

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Speaker 4: leaders in New Zealand who do speak up on things

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Speaker 4: that they you know, they have a point of view on,

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Speaker 4: so just want their opinions exactly, and in fact, you

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Speaker 4: know the government is saying that to business leaders, we

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Speaker 4: want you to have an opinion. So so that's my

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Speaker 4: view on that. But I absolutely agree with Robin Oliver

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Speaker 4: when it comes to the fact that we cannot tax

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Speaker 4: our way to success in New Zealand. And in fact,

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Speaker 4: in my view, discussions around tax have become punitive and

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Speaker 4: as a sort of bludgeon to success and we need

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Speaker 4: to turn that around. And if taxing our way to

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Speaker 4: success was the right way to do things in New

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Speaker 4: Zealand would be absolutely ripping and.

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Speaker 3: We are not.

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Speaker 4: And I further to that, I think that a lot

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Speaker 4: of New Zealanders have actually lost faith in value for

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Speaker 4: money in terms of the taxes they are paying, because

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Speaker 4: look at the state of things.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you, Jose, what do you think.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, if you go back to A and Z's Antonio Watson,

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Speaker 5: what she was advocating for a capital gains tax. So

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Speaker 5: I think what they're not saying, you know, tax the

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Speaker 5: country to hell, and that will be how you get

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Speaker 5: prosperity and growth. And I listened to your interview with

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Speaker 5: Robin Oliver, and he's saying, don't tax it. You know,

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Speaker 5: we won't have surgeons and doctors and teachers and nurses

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Speaker 5: and so on if.

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Speaker 3: We don't grow, and he's absolutely right.

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Speaker 5: But I think what they're saying, these two bank chief

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Speaker 5: executives is you need a tax switch because at the moment,

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Speaker 5: you've got about forty five percent of our tax revenue

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Speaker 5: is coming from tax of people who work for wages.

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Speaker 5: It's levied on work, and thirty one percent is coming

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Speaker 5: off spending on GST. So so you know that's most

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Speaker 5: of us and what and that's really out of kilter

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Speaker 5: with the rest of the world where there's there's a

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Speaker 5: much better balance between taxing the non productive sector, i e.

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Speaker 5: Houses that just sit there and do nothing and don't

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Speaker 5: create any jobs and don't do anything. So they're saying

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Speaker 5: capital gains tax. Taxing on the games makes sense rather

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Speaker 5: than taxing on all the innovators and the wealth makers

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Speaker 5: of tomorrow who are still climbing up the hill.

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Speaker 2: Perfect even no, no, no, no, Josie. Because what we need

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Speaker 2: in this country, which is winni capital, which is why

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Speaker 2: both Winnie Pee and David Cymore is saying we've got

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Speaker 2: to get foreign capital. Then you don't then tax the

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Speaker 2: very thing that you're trying to get into the country,

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Speaker 2: thereby creating a disincentive.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but this is about taxing things that don't make

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Speaker 5: any money at all, So we're not it's not about

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Speaker 5: taxing stuff that invests in businesses and invests in innovations.

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Speaker 3: About youxing the dead doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Make business and there's a gain, there's a capital gains tax.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. And also people who are buying lots and lots

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Speaker 5: of houses, which we know that speculation around housing has

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Speaker 5: been a thing, and that's just sort of money that's

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Speaker 5: not feeding into the productive sector. So I do think

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Speaker 5: we need and you're right, Trish, let business leaders have

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Speaker 5: a say and have an opinion about this. I think

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Speaker 5: you have to accept that there is we are out

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Speaker 5: of kilter with the rest of the world, where we

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Speaker 5: tax people who earn wages far more, and the people

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Speaker 5: earning wages today are the capital makers and the wealth

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Speaker 5: makers of tomorrow. What we're saying is that the people

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Speaker 5: at the top of the hill, we've already made all

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Speaker 5: their money.

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Speaker 3: And good on them for doing it. We're saying they don't.

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Speaker 5: Have to pay any tax. We'll just tax everybody else

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Speaker 5: who's coming up the hill. But they're the wealth. They're

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Speaker 5: the wealthy of tomorrow. See, you know, you've got to

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Speaker 5: get a better balance in the tax system.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't agree.

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Speaker 4: I think one of the great examples currently is the

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Speaker 4: small and medium business owners who have been hit with

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Speaker 4: the increase in the tax rate on trusts.

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Speaker 3: And you know that they.

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Speaker 4: Are people who are working really hard, and that's a

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Speaker 4: tax of up at forty percent. So I don't agree.

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Speaker 4: It's not it's not as simple as that. But I

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Speaker 4: also I do think that overwhelmingly it's also about a

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Speaker 4: signal to New Zealand and where we want to head

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Speaker 4: and that we do want to start celebrating success. And

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Speaker 4: I just don't think that.

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Speaker 5: I don't think this is but I don't think this

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Speaker 5: is about you know, putting a down or on success.

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Speaker 5: What we're actually saying is we need some kind of

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Speaker 5: tax switch. So you're right, small to medium businesses, we

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Speaker 5: need to support them in every way we can. So

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Speaker 5: let's reduce taxes in other places. Let's reduce income tax

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Speaker 5: for a start. So you've got to look at the

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Speaker 5: whole tax system and go because it's not just about

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Speaker 5: creating realm, and that's also about taxing the right stuff.

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Speaker 2: I don't live in that world, right then, no one's

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Speaker 2: going to give us a text switch, but they're not

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Speaker 2: going to give us a tax swhich they are just

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Speaker 2: going to increase their revenue and government.

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Speaker 5: But we've done it before her that we did it,

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Speaker 5: John Key did it with GST, cut income tax and

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Speaker 5: put up GST.

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Speaker 3: So absolutely when the.

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Speaker 2: Different situation, I mean, which we're kind of broke at

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Speaker 2: the moment, we're very broke. Yeah, So anyway, listen, we'll

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Speaker 2: take a break, come back and talk about how the

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Speaker 2: government's doing one year and and also after six o'clock

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Speaker 2: with Nickoli Willis, we are going to talk about getting

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Speaker 2: the foreign capitalist.

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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, elevate the

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Speaker 1: marketing of your home right.

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Speaker 2: You're back with the Huddle, Joe Speghanni and Tricious and Josie.

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Speaker 2: What do you think about this government a year and

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Speaker 2: how they're tracking.

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Speaker 5: Well, we're clearly feeling very ill, aren't we. We're not

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Speaker 5: very tigger. We're pretty miserable. So you can't necessarily blame

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Speaker 5: the government on that. But look at what I think

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Speaker 5: they've got right, is they've got the diagnosis right of

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Speaker 5: what's gone wrong, so cost blowouts, we're not delivering. We

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Speaker 5: haven't been building stuff. We've got to make that faster.

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Speaker 5: We've got to make that easier. What they lack and

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Speaker 5: why those polls are not looking good for national They

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Speaker 5: lack a sort of big plan. And the thing about

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Speaker 5: a plan is that you don't expect a government to

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Speaker 5: fix everything in the first year, but you do want

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Speaker 5: to believe that they will. And there's a wonderful quote

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Speaker 5: from the former German Chancellor Helmet Schmidt who once said

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Speaker 5: politicians with a vision should go and.

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Speaker 3: See a doctor. What they need is a plan.

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Speaker 5: And the thing about a plan is, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: a map for what you're going to do. It identifies destination,

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Speaker 5: you can see the milestones and most importantly, you can.

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Speaker 3: See the priorities.

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Speaker 5: So without a plan, I think they've got a bit derailed.

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Speaker 5: Where you know, the biggest noise that comes along, which

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Speaker 5: has been treaty issues, and really I don't think we

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Speaker 5: were worried about any of the race issues until this

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Speaker 5: suddenly became a huge, big issue. It kind of throws

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Speaker 5: them off balance and they end up talking, you know,

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Speaker 5: forever about treaty principles and all of this, and that's

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Speaker 5: not what they want to be doing. So that's the problem.

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Speaker 5: You get led around by the nose if you haven't

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Speaker 5: got a clear plan. I think that's what they lack.

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Speaker 4: What do you think for It's exactly what came out

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Speaker 4: in mood of the boardroom recently. Everybody said we want

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Speaker 4: to see the plan for growth. I think here's my

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Speaker 4: little dipstick on where we are right now as a country.

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Speaker 4: And what sparked this was a conversation I had with

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Speaker 4: someone who owns a small business in Russell over the weekend.

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Speaker 4: I was saying, oh, you know, as you do Goundtown

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Speaker 4: or how's things going, and she said, look, right now,

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Speaker 4: people can't afford a day trip. So you get people

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Speaker 4: on a Sunday that'd go from fung Ray to Russell.

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Speaker 4: It's an hour, spend a day there, buy some fish

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Speaker 4: and chips. So my quick assessment is, right now we're

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Speaker 4: a country that can't afford a Sunday day trip.

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Speaker 2: We're broke.

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Speaker 4: Our bright young things are leaving New Zealand, and record

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Speaker 4: numbers the things we trust to look after us, like

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Speaker 4: the health system, are broken. And the bright spot is

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Speaker 4: we're campaigning to be the best country in the world

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Speaker 4: to have her peace. That was expected to rest wishes

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Speaker 4: but actually just on a serious idea, just can't you

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Speaker 4: know that? It made me laugh when I saw that campaign.

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Speaker 4: But I think the hard thing for the government is

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Speaker 4: that for people who have lost their businesses in the

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Speaker 4: past four years and who are still losing their businesses,

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Speaker 4: that is a decade long or multi generational problem for

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Speaker 4: those families. And if you just look at some numbers

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Speaker 4: in disposable income per capita is down six point two

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Speaker 4: percent compared to September twenty twenty two. Now, how much

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Speaker 4: is that in twenty twenty four dollars, a four person

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Speaker 4: household is over sixteen hundred dollars a month worse off

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Speaker 4: than two years ago. That is a huge amount of money. So, yes,

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Speaker 4: I think the government's ticking things off. Yes, I think

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Speaker 4: are they're working quickly, and we all feel better that

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Speaker 4: they are in But New Zealanders, I think, are in

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Speaker 4: a harder place than a lot have been in a generation.

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Speaker 4: So there is a very long way back, but way

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Speaker 4: back is through growth. And I was really pleased to

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Speaker 4: see the foreign capital stuff over the weekend because New

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Speaker 4: Zealand is absolutely parched and we need foreign capital desperately

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Speaker 4: to get things going again.

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Speaker 3: You you, an.

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Speaker 5: Idea of another quick dipstick is the way the government

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Speaker 5: has cut a lot of staff in the public sector,

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Speaker 5: so cut costs great. I understand that, But then again,

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Speaker 5: where's the big idea about how you actually fix the

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Speaker 5: public sector which hasn't been able to deliver even on

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Speaker 5: former government plans either. So what's gone wrong? What's causing

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Speaker 5: the group think, what's causing the inability for the.

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Speaker 3: Public sector to be better at delivery and.

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Speaker 5: Get things done fast, and I think that, you know,

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Speaker 5: it's a really good little microcosm of what's gone wrong.

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Speaker 5: You can cut things, yes, but you've still got to

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Speaker 5: do a diagnostic about what is why is the public

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Speaker 5: sector not delivering and what does it need to do that.

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Speaker 5: You know, maybe it's separating policy develop development from delivery

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Speaker 5: of stuff because if you don't have the government, right,

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Speaker 5: if you don't have government departments, right, Yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 5: who delivers the governments.

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Speaker 2: You make a good point. Cutting is not transformation, and

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Speaker 2: what we need is transformation.

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Speaker 4: Quick outside view though, which is a bright spot. Someone

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Speaker 4: who works with me who's immigrated to New Zealand this year,

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Speaker 4: he said, other countries would kill for the kind of

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Speaker 4: businesslike focus government we've got at the moment. He said,

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Speaker 4: look at the UK. We'll look at the keir starmagull

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Speaker 4: like less than two months and they are rudderless and

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Speaker 4: in absolute shambles.

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Speaker 3: He said, look at the US.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's good to balance the out the

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Speaker 4: inside view with the outside.

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Speaker 2: I have a little bit of a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a glasshouf for there. Guys. Thank you. I really appreciate

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Speaker 2: the power of you coming on to chat to me

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Speaker 2: as always on a Monday, Joe Spagani trishas in our huddle.

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Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to

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Speaker 1: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio