1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Concerns over in CEA. Our government's got this briefing paper 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: got made public over the weekend and basically it tells 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: us what every parent already knew. There are issues around 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: credibility into internal assessments, the stockpiling of credits, all that stuff. 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: Tim O'Connor is the headmaster of Auckland Grammar and is 6 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: back with us. Tim, very good morning. 7 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: To you morning mate. 8 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: Would this be the belief of most people that there 9 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: are major issues always have been within CEA? 10 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 2: I think so. I think most educationalists across the country 11 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: would understand what the problems are. In fact, I think 12 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: most parents understand what the problems are. 13 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: Is this the flight to Cambridge and all those sort 14 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: of things that we've been seeing in the ensuing years. 15 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 2: Well, I think it should be a prompt for the 16 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 2: Minister of Education to actually abolish INCAAA as we know 17 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: it right now and put a new system in places. 18 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: A great opportunity. Finally, we have the Education Review Office 19 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 2: and MGQA agreeing, you know, things like there's no care 20 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: learning required to achieve subjects within the qualification time for change? 21 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you blow it up or do you reform it? 22 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: I'd well you would keep it called nca unless, of 23 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 2: course you wanted to call it School Certificate and University 24 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: Entrants or something innovative. I think you change it to 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: an examination based system. We make it pretty simple. Here's 26 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,639 Speaker 2: the thought. We assess it against the National Curriculum, because 27 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: currently NCAA doesn't do that. So the primary made of 28 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 2: assessment as examinations that would give benchmarking across the country 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: for every student, whether you're an Indocargo through to Auckland, 30 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 2: you'd know where you stood, and you can have some 31 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: internal assessment in it, because not all types of content 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: you are best under exam conditions, but these should be 33 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: marked by NZQA. Teachers wouldn't mark their student's own work, 34 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: and they shouldn't achieve. They shouldn't receive their marks back 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: before they get their externals back. 36 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: It's almost like when I went to school in the 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: late seventies early eighties. That almost sounds like the way 38 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: we did it then. 39 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: Tim well, like the core foundational knowledge that we need 40 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: in the science of learning haven't changed, and they should 41 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 2: point the direction that we need to take right now. 42 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: Again, my wife and I were talking about this ironically 43 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: over the weekend because our kids have all gone through 44 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: NCEA and all that sort of stuff, the bearing degrees 45 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: of success. But if you look at this generation with 46 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: their open classrooms, what snow we don't like those? The 47 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: lockdowns of COVID plus the NCEEA. Oh, by the way, 48 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: all the NCAA you've just done, we don't like anymore. 49 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: How much damage do you reckon we've done to a 50 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: generation of kids. 51 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Significant damage. I mean we see New Zealand's results 52 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: in the OECD. They clearly show that they don't like 53 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: reporting those. But there is significant damage. Look at the 54 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: number of students who are arriving at university thinking that 55 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: they have direct entry into courses who don't actually have 56 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: university entrants because they've earned NCAA Level three, that they 57 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: haven't actually earned the prerequisites to enter a basic course. 58 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: Amazing, all right, to appreciate it as always, Tim O'Connor Auckland, 59 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: Grammar Headmaster. For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen 60 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: live to news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, 61 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.