WEBVTT - "It is possible to live and grieve at the same time" Dr Lucy Hone on resilience, grieving and hope. 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.320 With the Heads Podcast Network. 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:11.720 Hello and welcome back to Slow It Down. I'm your 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.720 host PJ Harding, and the podcast is all about finding 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.400 peace and the chaos. How can we feel a little 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.440 more granded in this wild world that we're living in. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.320 And I know it's incredibly ironic. I feel like I've 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.760 never been busier and I'm hosting a podcast called Slow 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.960 It Down. But that's why we're doing this, to have 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:35.800 that weekly reminder of how we can slow down and 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.720 smell the roses in those mundane moments. This week, I'm 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.240 joined by best selling author, international speaker she's got a 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.760 top twenty TED talk, the incredible doctor Lucy Hone. She's 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.159 the founder of Coping with Loss as well as director 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.520 of the Institute of Wellbeing and Resilience. So when it 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.680 comes to the topic of grief and resilience, Lucy. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:00.800 Is in clued up. 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:07.759 And not only that, she had a harrowing, horrific firsthand 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.880 experience with grief in twenty fourteen, when your twelve year 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:16.600 old daughter Abby was probably taken in a road accident. 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.600 As a mother, Ah man, you're just hearing this. 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.399 It just hits so hard, and I think you often 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.920 go what would I do in that situation, and honestly, 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.800 I always think I would just be so weak. I 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.679 don't know if I could continue on. And I think 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.520 a lot of people think that what is the purpose 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:38.160 of living after losing a child? 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.080 Well, Lucy is incredibly inspiring. 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:45.080 She doesn't sugarcoat her experience, but she sort of details 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:50.080 how she got through slowly but surely, and what it 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.320 was like eventually feeling joy again. There is so much 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.720 value in this chat, and I really hope you enjoy 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:02.280 my conversation with Lucy. I feel very privileged to have 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.760 you on the podcast today because you are one busy woman. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.160 Can you talk through the last few months for you? Like, 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.200 how does it look if we go through a week 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.239 for doctor Lucy Heihan, what are we looking at? 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:22.799 Hi? So hello? It is quite a busy life. 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:28.480 I'm fortunate to have kind of created, oh professional live 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.480 around doing the things I love. So lucky me and 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.560 I have just flown in from Vancouver yesterday spent a 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:40.640 week there, which is and I pretty much travel overseas 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:45.360 every month and this year I have been to Hong Kong, Bangkok, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:51.720 New York, Washington, Vancouver and Sydney four times. See my 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.800 husband doesn't leave the house to just counterbalance my terrible 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:56.520 carbon footprint. 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.079 That is no joke that I'm not going anywhere? Could 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:00.359 you do it for both of us? 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:02.120 So here's it. How long has it looked like that? 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:03.400 For how many years? 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.680 Well, in COVID it was a lot simpler because I 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.120 then got to do what I would like to do, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.240 which is do this work virtually, and then my carbon 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:16.920 footprint would be much lower. So, as you can tell, 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:21.720 that's something that bothers me. So how I mean, I yeah, 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:26.400 I mean I pretty much do some kind of training 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.280 or a keynote most weeks and have done so probably 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.119 for the last four. 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:36.640 Years, I think, maybe since my TED talk came out. Yeah, 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.520 and COVID definitely. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:43.040 Done a light on my work for people here in 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:48.480 Altata but globally, so that has given me that global 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:49.960 yeah work. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.320 And so when you are gotting to do these talks, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.760 it is mainly sent here around resilience in coping with grief? 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.960 Is that mainly and I've quite often I guess we 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:08.720 all live in a culture of ongoing uncertainty, disruption, stress, challenges, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.120 changes and losses, and loss is probably the one people 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:17.159 talk about least, but you know, most big corporates that 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.480 I work for now want to be able to equip 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:27.600 their staff to work through the ongoing change and challenges 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.000 that every business is seeing globally right now. And it's 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:36.240 my job to try and get them to understand that 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.400 there are ways of thinking, acting and being that those 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.720 individuals in those workplaces can do, and that's the kind 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:47.000 of individual resilience training. But it's also my job to 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.960 say to them, you have to watch your work practices too, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.520 you know, as organizations, so to try and always encourage 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.599 them to take a more responsible attitude to the work 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.400 can traditions that they are accountable for. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:05.560 And so that's a bit of a dance. 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:06.560 Nice. 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.920 Well, I'm sure that the conversation definitely became so much 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.960 more important after COVID in what because it was there 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.920 back in around two thousand and eight, the financial cush 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.039 that you first of all really got interested in the 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:20.960 word resilience and the importance of it. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:22.200 Is that what got you on this path? 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.880 Yeah, totally. In fact, PJA, two things. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:27.920 Now, when I look back on it, I realized two 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.120 things were going on for me, In fact, three things 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.280 in two thousand and eight. One was a really dear 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.640 new friend of mine I was a relatively young mum 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.320 explained to me that she had depression, and she was 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.960 the first person I'd ever met who was very kind 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.000 of outward and honest about their struggles with mental illness. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.320 And that really brought to my attention how little I 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.400 knew about what we could do to support a friend 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.960 or family member who was struggling with their mental health. 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.919 And then I remember there was definitely a time where 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.160 I just got frustrated by the fact that I kept 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.200 listening to I don't know, you know, kind of radio 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.520 New Zealand, and I'd open up all the kind of newsweeklies, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.080 anything from Time to the listener and everywhere. It seemed 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.200 to me that we were being told that nations needed 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.479 to be resilient, that economies needed to be resilient, that 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.680 individuals did And that was the first time I ever thought, seriously, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:36.560 does anyone know what this word that is so overused means? 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.120 And that was back in two thousand and eight, and 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:40.680 if we weren't sick of it then. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.279 But the third thing that happened was I also happened 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:51.320 to hear a probably the world's most famous living psychologist, 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.960 a guy called Professor Martin Seligman, and I think he 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:59.080 was probably visiting Arta at the time, and so I 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.400 heard him on the rail and he said that if 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.920 you knew your strengths, your kind of the things that 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.160 were your values in action, the things that were absolutely 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:13.320 core to you and how you want to be in life, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.840 if you knew your strengths and you use them every 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.840 day and work, love and play, then that led to 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.720 greater well being. And he was the first person that 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.080 made me realize that we could kind of know ourselves 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:31.600 better to perform better, feel better, function better. And so 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:36.040 I went and did his Masters in Resilience and Wellbeing 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.280 psychology over at U Penn and Philadelphia. So I think 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.920 all those things coming together, which is a little. 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:45.480 Bit how life plays out, isn't it. 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.400 With me, it's one thing, But actually you look around 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.880 and go there were just these threads that came together. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:57.280 And for anyone listening, one of my where my encouragements 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.960 to you would be to listen out for or the whisper, 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:06.120 that little voice in your head that keeps coming back 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:10.760 and saying, hey, maybe I'm the one who could do that, 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.120 you know, and to listen out for that, because that 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.280 voice has taken me a long way. I think, you know, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.040 just trusting the process that you don't know the answers, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:24.760 that they will unravel as you go, and you might 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:26.760 find yourself in some pretty cool places. 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:28.720 That's so beautiful. I love. 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.200 I often talk about them nudge and how that led 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.920 me from literally doing this radio show in Melbourne, moving 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.000 to the middle of nowhere with my husband literally no 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.120 clue what was going to happen. But I've gone on 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.880 to have a beautiful son, pregnant with a second, and 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.520 I feel like life is more grounded. I don't feel 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.440 like maybe I'm where I was. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:52.800 I don't know. It's interesting. 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.520 I feel like you take pivots throughout life and you 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:57.960 don't have to know exactly how it's going to end up. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.040 But if you keep following the nudge, you follow what 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.440 feels good, then that's quite a good met to follow. 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.199 Yeah, I agree, And I don't know if you can 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.520 still hear my accent, but I'm a Londoner and I'm 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.400 married to London. You know, we met opposite the Blue 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.640 Door in Portrabello and notting Hill, so we were real 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:21.520 Londoners and and it's interesting, you know about the content 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.320 and tone and purpose of your podcast because I think 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.920 we we came here for six months and never went home, 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.559 because I think we had the good sense to realize 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.720 that life would be a little bit easier here to 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.760 jump off the big treadmill. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.160 And yeah, I mean it's still pretty busy. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:43.720 Yeah, well that's in this podcast. 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.240 I don't want to shout away from the fact that 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.319 life is busy and not you know, playing it down, 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.600 but it's kind of acknowledging it and bracing it, but 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:58.160 still finding ways to slow down, you know, day in 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.680 day out, so you are smell the rises, which sounds 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.000 really really cheesy, But I don't want to get too 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.600 late in my life and realize that I was always 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.319 too busy to really really enjoy the moment. 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:11.520 Yeah. 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.880 Do you know the Five Regrets of the Dying. I've 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.160 just done some reels on this on the Instagram and 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.079 really tell me and the last one okay, so I 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:21.520 just hope I can remember them. They are the five 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.439 Regrets of the Dying, and they were identified by a 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.880 palliative care nurse Australian woman called Bronnie ware In just 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.960 before twenty eleven, and I first read about them in 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.599 an article that came out in The Guardian in twenty 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.800 and eleven, and she's written this book about the five regrets, 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.760 and they are I wish I hadn't worked so hard. 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.719 I wish I had lived a life true to myself 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.400 and not something that somebody else wanted for me. 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.160 I wish I'd kept in touch with. 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.160 My you know, my old friends. I wish I've made 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.199 more efforts to stay in touch with people. I wish 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.840 I can't remember the fourth one, but the fifth one 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.400 is I wish I'd let myself be happier. 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.480 And it was that fifth reel that I looked so 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.720 happen to look at my insta the other day and 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.480 it's been watched by four hundred and fifty thousand people. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.200 Wow, And I thought, you know that's so telling, isn't 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.600 it that people that that's what resonates with people, This 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:32.120 idea that we do have some choice over our lived experience, 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.760 and that people get to the end of their lives thinking, oh, I. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.280 Wish these are my regrets. 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.000 And I wish I'd let myself be happier, to do 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.320 the things that I wanted to do, to plow the 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.920 path that really interested me and not what someone else 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.400 wanted for me, So you know that's yea. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:53.280 Why do you think? 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.960 Why do is it we feel that kind of constraint 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.880 going through life that we can't fully embody what truly 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.520 what truly makes our hearts? Saying we kind of feel 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.160 like we have to stay in line and just tip away. 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:08.400 I'm the wrong person to ask. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.880 Bizarrely, come from a family where we were not taught 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.640 that we were too completely opposite. You know, I've got 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.520 my sister here in New Zealand, so she emigrated here first, 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.560 my brother went to the West Indies to sail, and 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.440 when my mum died, we followed my sister here. And 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.520 I think we've as a family always had a belief 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:33.720 that life is short, life is for the living, and 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.839 you really you've only got one stab at it, so 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.320 you need to get out and do what you can 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:45.280 and obviously juggle that with finding enough money and the 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:46.280 home to live and eat. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.040 But yeah, I think it's something I do. 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:55.680 Truly think that that is part of my family's Fucker, Papa, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.480 you can't call it back to we come from North London, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:58.000 but you know what I. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.959 Mean, what you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, you actually worked 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:07.200 quite closely alongside the earthquake response back in the day. 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.440 I was in christ Church in twenty ten. Vividly remember 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:16.880 that early shake in the morning, And what did that 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.000 teach you about resilience, because I'm sure you learned a 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:26.000 lot through that time, that sort of constant state of anxiety. 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.440 It was a weird time. It was a weird time. 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.560 Everything was just flipped upside down and everything that we 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:37.720 knew was so unstable. So what were the biggest takeaways 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:38.640 you got from that time? 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.559 Yes, so living for two years through that earthquake period, 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.640 when we had over ten thousand aftershocks and six individual 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:53.200 massive events, definitely did give me a completely different understanding 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:57.800 of what it was to live through ongoing, miserable disruption. 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.520 So the first thing it taught me was anxiety, because 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.320 I've never lived with anxiety before, and just knowing, like 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.760 we used to go to bed every night thinking please 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.920 don't happen tonight, you know, I just I just want 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.000 me and the kids to be able to sleep over 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:13.880 the night. I don't want to get out there in 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.600 the middle of the night in the pouring rain and 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.440 have to stand outside the house because we're too scared 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:19.160 to go in it. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:21.119 But taught me about anxiety. 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.880 It taught me, though, also about the importance when you 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.760 are navigating tough times to find to really lean into 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:34.920 the certainty and the routines that you can. 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:36.280 Put around yourself. 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.600 And that has been an ongoing kind of part of 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.480 my training for other people when they're coping with tough times. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.520 So you want to put a route, any kind of 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:51.000 semblance of routine back into your life as quickly as 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:52.840 is possible, and that can. 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:54.320 Be pretty sketchy routine. 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.440 We're not talking kind of perfection here, but just doing 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.520 what you can. So for us, that's getting up in 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.800 the morning, having a cup of coffee, going to walk 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.680 the dogs on the beach, you know, doing a bit 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.840 of work. At the end of the day, walking the 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:12.040 dogs again, coming home, you know, playing some music, having dinner, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.520 watching TV, going to bed, pretty routine things. And in 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.720 that post quake environment, watching the kids go back to schools, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.920 even though the schools were really chaotic, it made you 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.360 realize how important it was for them. 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:28.080 So it taught me about routines. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.560 It taught me for the first time that you can 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.760 grieve things other than non death losses, because I didn't 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.920 know that and we did. We were the lucky ones. 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:43.080 You know, we didn't lose anybody we loved in the earthquakes. 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.680 We didn't lose our homes. My husband is a builder, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.800 so you know, actually we had lots of busy work 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:56.040 post quakes, and yet we all felt our entire community 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.800 experienced that sense of loss and grief that I now 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:05.640 understand so much in my work can be associated. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.240 With so many non death losses. 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.880 You don't have to lose someone to be grieving, And 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.160 so that was my first experience. So that you know, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.720 I'm a hill runner and I always you know, live 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.400 here and i can look out at the hills and 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.600 I've always looked at them and thought, I'm so lucky 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.760 to be able to see, you know, the neighboring tracks 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.680 from our window. But then straight after the quakes, I 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.760 would look at the mountains around us and think, I. 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:30.320 Don't like you. 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.520 Now, you scare me, and you're not my friend any longer. 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.080 And then there's also just the lack of innocence that 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.480 you just cannot believe that this kind of thing would 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.360 happen to you. So certainly it did teach me a lot, 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.640 and then professionally it taught me a lot about how 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:53.760 you for me, how I could best translate the science 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.800 that I was so familiar with, the resilient psychology into 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:03.720 kind of palatable, do a relevant, practical tools that people 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.600 might actually want to do in their everyday lives, because 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.080 that's science to practice translation thing. It really is what 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.760 interests me most. And so I had an incredible kind 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:19.000 of professional experience of really working out what worked for 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.320 other people and listening to them. 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.520 So it was pretty amazing. From that point. 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.359 I remember that immediate sort of sense of unknown and 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.240 just like, is anything ever going to feel like it's 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.159 going to return to normal again? And I think eventually 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.159 there was so much importance around trusting that you could 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.520 build back, but like it took a while to get 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.720 there to know that life would return. And I suppose 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.280 that's a lesson from grief as well, Like for when 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.639 you're actually grieving the loss of a person, isn't it 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:55.640 knowing that eventually eventually things will start to come back. Yes, 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.119 they'll feel different, but you kind of just have to 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.320 get through each day. 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:04.720 Yep, that's so true. 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.760 And just in case some of your listeners don't know 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.159 why you and I are talking grief, a few years 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.600 after the earthquakes, we lost our twelve year old daughter 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.920 Abby and her best friend Ella, who was also twelve, 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.879 and Ella's mum Sally, in a horrendous car accident on 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:27.679 Queen's Birthday weekend. So yeah, so I've certainly done my 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.400 time with grief, and I've done the research and exploration, 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.719 you know, I've really gone taken a deep dive into 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:41.520 healthy tools for healthy adaptation to grief in a field 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:46.880 that I call resilient grieving. And yeah, certainly you've completely 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:47.359 nailed it. 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:47.680 PG. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.520 That's what it taught me was personally that it is 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.719 possible to live and grieve at the same time. And 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.120 that doesn't mean that that's easy or what you wanted 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:03.159 or fun or pretty downright bloody awful. But I was 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.280 lucky and that I had all this great body of 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.800 knowledge behind me when Abby died. That made me, gave 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.720 me hope, and it kind of gave me some tools 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:12.280 of things, ways. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.679 Of thinking and acting that might help me. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.760 But without doubt, it is such a slog and I 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:22.399 remember that feeling. And I'm pretty sure that when you 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.480 had Janelle on the podcast recently, she said the same 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.440 kind of thing that you climb a mountain every day, 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.160 and it's exhausting and you're just trying to put one 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.600 step in front of the other. And I remember texting 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:37.840 my sister one day just to say, I feel like 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.120 I climb the same mountain every day. 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.600 You're not giving. In the morning, I wake up and. 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.479 I'm backed down at the bottom again. And so it 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:51.760 was really exhausting. But I did know that we would 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.080 get through it. I was determined. Well, I may know 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.399 that's probably BS. Actually I didn't know, but I hoped 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.240 and I was certainly determined that we would somehow get 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.560 through and relearn to live. 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:05.959 In the world. 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.680 Is one of my favorite expressions, and it comes from 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.040 a researcher who I know in love called Tom Attic. 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:16.399 He's retired now, but he has this concept that grief 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:20.920 is about relearning to live without your person here, and 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:22.760 that's been really helpful to me. 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:29.359 I just I've heard you speak about the loss of 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.600 your daughter, and I, first of all, I'm just so 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.359 sorry for what you've been through. I cannot imagine a 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.840 loss like that, and for you to continue doing the 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.359 work that you do and sharing a knowledge with the 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:47.879 world is just so special and powerful, and thank you 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.359 so much. For all that you do when it comes 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.320 to grieving. Because as I chat it about the Janelle, like, 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.720 I still think it's a conversation that yes, we kind 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.760 of open an up the chat, but we still don't 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.160 go super deep in the Eastern culture, and there's still 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.920 this kind of taboo around speaking. And you know, yeah, 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.000 I think so much healing can be done from people 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:16.560 having these deeper conversations. And what was that like having 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:21.480 all of this knowledge around resilience behind you, Like the 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.199 application of it must be so different when it's actually 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:25.760 you in the driver's seat. 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:28.480 Yeah, I'm not sure it is. 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.639 I mean, I think because I was well trained and 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:35.359 I knew that resilience is different for everybody. And I 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.480 was trained by Karen riivich at U Penn who was 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:42.960 training was responsible for training the entire US forces to 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:46.760 be as mentally fit as they have traditionally been physically fit. 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.120 And she used to say to us in. 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.280 Our you know, in the classroom when I was studying 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.800 my masters, she used to say that resilience is like 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:55.520 a student. 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:57.720 You know, everybody has different ingredients. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.600 It requires a whole load of different ingredients, and everyone 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.199 has different recipes. So but you know, that was fifteen 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:08.600 years ago now, So for fifteen years I've been telling 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:12.199 people to find your own way and that resilience. What 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.560 enables you to be resilient PJ is different to me. 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:16.760 You know, there are. 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.120 Kind of common characteristics that have been identified by science, 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:25.680 but we know that it requires pretty ordinary internal processes, 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:30.120 ways of thinking and acting, you know, ideally not falling 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:34.720 into a complete negativity trap and being able to you 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:36.760 can see my poster over my shoulder, see the good 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:38.399 except the good I love it. 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:40.639 That's our kind of way of doing that. 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.760 So the sort of benefit, finding the note, the hunting 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.320 the good stuff, noticing what's still good in your world, 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:52.280 pulling on other people, being vulnerable, asking for help. You know, 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.640 all of those things are pretty typical components of people's 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:57.120 resilience stewes. 0:22:57.920 --> 0:22:59.760 But you've got to make it. You've got to make 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:00.240 it happen. 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:04.600 You've got to find the ways that will help you 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.280 get through. So for me, I was on a mission 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.719 to survive Abby's loss. We have two beautiful sons and 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:14.639 my amazing husband that I was just adamant that, you know, 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.359 I'd already lost so much, and I had this voice 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:22.159 in my head saying, don't lose what you've got to 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:26.680 what you've lost. So I was pretty mission focused, and 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.919 funnily enough, that word mission. We often see this in 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:33.399 the resilience literature, people saying, you know, I'm on a 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:39.120 survivor's mission. I'm determined too. You kind of hear this 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:44.520 amongst people talking. It's like a response to the last Yeah, yeah, 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.919 like absolutely determined too. And I noticed that about what 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:52.320 Janelle said in your other podcast with her the other day. 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:53.240 She said, I. 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:57.000 Will not martyr myself to people saying, you know, you 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.280 only have one love in your life and you'll never 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:02.040 survive this. And just this last week when I was 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.240 in Vancouver, I was talking to a woman who'd lost 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:08.200 one of her sons and she said to me, people 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:12.480 kept saying to me, oh, you must be heartbroken, and 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.679 she said to me, I hated that term, and I've 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:18.520 kept wanting to say to them, I will not be 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:20.200 broken by this. 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:23.720 And in all of you know those my way. 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:25.960 Of saying it, Janelle's way of saying it, this lovely 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:28.280 woman in Vancouver called Catherine saying it. 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:31.200 What we're all saying is we don't want to be victims. 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:36.159 We want to find our own way through this with 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.520 other people's support, but we're there is a kind of 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:43.600 an agency and determination in there that crops up a 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:45.480 lot in the scientific literature. 0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:47.159 Yes, because that VIC don't meant tell that it can 0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:51.040 be so self destructive. And I've heard you talk about 0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:55.440 rewiring it and rephrasing, and I suppose instead of saying 0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:57.600 why me, why not me, when you actually break it 0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.919 down and look at the number of people that will 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:04.280 endure a traumatic events through their life. When you break 0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:06.040 it down, of course, you know it's actually a high 0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:06.640 answered it. 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:07.280 Is going to happen to you. 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:10.879 So instead of being like, oh, woe is me, it's 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:11.960 reframing that. 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:13.280 Yeah. 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:16.399 So yeah, the research shows that seventy three percent of 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:20.639 us will encounter some form a potentially traumatic event in 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:21.439 our lifetime. 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:22.560 And yet we. 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:28.520 Also know that in terms of prolonged grief disorder complicated grief, 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:31.560 the levels are normally if you take COVID out of 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:35.159 the equation, normally around ten to fifteen percent of people 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:39.400 really struggle with their grief. So most of us somehow 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:43.600 get through using pretty ordinary processes. And I kind of 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:47.439 think that's the untold story of resilience, you know, we 0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:49.600 can hate the word and I'm the first person that 0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:53.480 I'm the word really most vexing, terribly vexing. 0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:55.560 It's like the word journey. I find it so. 0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:58.000 Great actually, PJ. 0:25:58.119 --> 0:26:02.600 This makes some really important point here that in my 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:06.520 training that we deliver globally, people often talk to us 0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:09.120 about words that annoy them. So we said to them, 0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:12.800 find your own words. Don't get derailed and don't get 0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:15.840 stuck or don't miss out on some of these really 0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:19.840 potent tools and strategies just because you don't like the 0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:23.359 language around them. Because I hate the word gratitude. Honestly, 0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:26.399 if someone wanted me to do a random act of kindness, 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:28.959 and more likely to slap them in the face. 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:31.920 But I did. I did do one the other day. 0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:33.440 I must have done something because I was telling my 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:35.240 husband about it and he just laughed at me and went, 0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:39.240 ooh go you with your ra k my random act. 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:42.159 I was like, oh, well, I've seen you do the 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.120 stone trick, the riverstone trick with the gratitude. 0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:46.720 Can you talk through that? 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:47.040 Is that? 0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:50.160 Because so again it's really important to find your own 0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:51.360 kind of language. 0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:54.120 Yeah, I do. I mean, actually I work in well 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:54.840 being literacy. 0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:58.560 My PhD was in you know, the ways of thinking 0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:02.040 and acting that are help you find. 0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:02.879 Psychological well being. 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:05.400 And one of those one of the findings out of 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:08.040 that those studies came that you've got to find your way. 0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:11.119 So I do have three riverstones, and I can't see them. 0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:13.600 I can see three shells, but that's not quite the same. 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:16.680 But I often put them in my pocket, and particularly 0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:19.600 when times are tough and no I'm up against it 0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:24.120 and I need to feel a sense of grounding, then 0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:27.919 I pop these little three stones in my pocket. And 0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:30.200 then of course I kind of bump into them throughout 0:27:30.240 --> 0:27:33.040 the day, and when I do, I just grab them 0:27:33.080 --> 0:27:35.359 and go, okay, what about now? 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:38.080 Try and make yourself think of. 0:27:38.000 --> 0:27:43.080 What or who is still good in your world despite 0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:46.200 whatever is going on. And so that is my kind 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:51.280 of own tailor made form of gratitude. And what I 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:55.320 like about that is that word still is really important. 0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:57.560 You know, it's not because we're not sugarcoating this. 0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:01.440 We're still saying, you'll give my pl it sucks, right now, 0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:03.240 what is. 0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:04.879 Still good in your world? 0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:07.439 If I really made you think about it? Yeah, So, 0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:11.160 and that's very much at the core of my work. 0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:14.960 Is not diminishing the tough stuff, being really real about that, 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:21.520 but also saying even in the worst of times, good 0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:24.879 stuff still happens. So I'm not wanting people to do 0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:28.240 the kind of happyology or toxic positivity here, but we're 0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:32.760 just talking about redressing the balance and broadening our outlooks 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:36.200 so that we don't shut ourselves off to the good 0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:37.320 stuff that is occurring. 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:40.480 Because you need that when you're navigating tough times. 0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:43.840 Yes, yes you do. And that's kind of what I 0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:45.920 want to talk about in this podcast each week and 0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:49.440 reiterate the importance of the small stuff, the stuff that 0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:53.280 seems like the mundane, the stuff that seems blend, but 0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:57.360 actually it's so important that we do pay attention to it. 0:28:57.400 --> 0:29:00.920 Is that what you are quite good at practicing when 0:29:00.920 --> 0:29:03.320 you're so busy, you're always on the. 0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:05.840 Go and you're traveling in life is keep deck. How 0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:08.920 do you keep that sense of ground and the groundedness. 0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:13.720 So I know, because life is busy, that I have 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:17.840 got some pretty good strategies that work for me to 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:21.480 keep me able to kind of keep a lid on everything. 0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:25.160 And it starts for me with number one is I'm 0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:31.040 really good at ruthless prioritization. So that phrase ruthless prioritization 0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:34.959 is at the core of many of our particularly kind 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:39.280 of resilience training workshops we do, and basically it encourages 0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:40.560 you to start your week. 0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:43.000 What I do is, we've got my book here. I've 0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:45.200 got my book and I do a kind of a 0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:47.080 brain dump into it. 0:29:47.320 --> 0:29:49.080 You know, on a Monday morning, I just write down 0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:52.040 everything that's in my head and then I just pull 0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:55.880 a few things across to the right hand side and go, Okay, 0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:58.640 what are the things that I really need to focus 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:02.080 on this week that if I get them sorted, I 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:05.120 will feel effective. And actually, I noticed that this time 0:30:05.160 --> 0:30:07.680 of year, there's so many things that I had this 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:10.640 long list that I had written on Friday that this 0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:13.000 morning I just pulled out five things and put them 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:14.680 on my whiteboard where I. 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:17.200 Can see them. I'm in the office all week, and 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:19.400 I thought, I need to keep that clarity. 0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:22.400 Just speaking my language, this is good. 0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:25.360 I am such a lust writer, but such an an 0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:28.280 effective lust writer, and so many of them get lost. 0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:33.520 Lucy, I mean, you need to trust the companion. And 0:30:33.560 --> 0:30:34.280 we bought to me. 0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:36.480 So I worked with she and I bought thirty of 0:30:36.560 --> 0:30:39.880 these in a box, we just literally work our way 0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:43.440 through them, and so but having the whiteboards are good 0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:44.160 for me as well. 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:46.400 So I really like to think. 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:50.400 The point of ruthless prioritization is that if you focus 0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:54.160 your attention on the things that will actually make you 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:59.240 feel effective, you are less likely to experience burnout because 0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:05.200 one of of the key components of burnout is feeling ineffective. 0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:09.600 So do yourself a favor and really make sure that 0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:13.640 you're not wasting your time on the rats and mice 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:17.120 or in the weeds, whatever phrase works for you, and 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:21.560 that you give yourself time to focus on deep work 0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:26.719 or important work. You know, and different people are better 0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:29.400 at different times of the day, So I think PJ, 0:31:29.560 --> 0:31:32.720 that's really important for everyone, for your listeners, for you 0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:37.680 to know when your kind of key focused times are 0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:41.680 and protect that, you know, like a demon. 0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:42.720 So don't let anyone. 0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:46.240 Don't be responding to your emails or deleting emails then, 0:31:46.880 --> 0:31:50.720 or checking your socials, you know, really make sure that 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:57.120 you're prioritizing your peak hour so that you get important 0:31:57.360 --> 0:32:00.600 work done so that you feel effective less likely to 0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:01.120 burn out. 0:32:01.240 --> 0:32:03.000 Like your high efficiency window. 0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:05.080 Yeah, yeah, I love. 0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:13.400 It because this time of year generally when most people 0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:15.400 burn out, Like, when do you find it is this 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:17.040 sort of a pattern. 0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:19.160 I've got no idea. 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:20.000 I don think it will be. 0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:23.120 Maybe it's the beginning of January where people just crumble away. 0:32:24.120 --> 0:32:26.120 But actually it depends on what kind of business you 0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:31.000 work in, doesn't it, Because for us October that kind 0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:34.440 of yeah, the end of the second quarter going into 0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:37.959 third quarter is sometimes the worst because we're already planning 0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:42.960 the following year while we're still in the existing year. 0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:45.640 That yeah, So I think it looks different for everyone. 0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:51.560 So Ruth's prioritization is my kind of work mantra. And 0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:55.480 then I also like to be able to focus on 0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:59.560 the good stuff. I like to have a few things 0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:01.080 that are going to go on in my day that 0:33:01.200 --> 0:33:05.200 are either islands of certainty, you know that kind of 0:33:05.280 --> 0:33:08.800 like the routine things that help me feel a bit 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:13.760 less chaotic, the dog walking, the coffee, the Trevor and 0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:16.680 I we sit on we've got a couch outside our 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:19.840 house here that gets a lot of sun, and we 0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:22.760 call it the sauna or the spa because it's really hot. 0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:25.200 So we'll go and have coffee there together. And then 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:29.520 sometimes I don't do much mindfulness. But I have recently 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:33.600 gone back into the Daily Calm app and sometimes after 0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:35.640 he and I've had coffee there, I just sit and 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:40.120 do three minutes breathing or listen to a calm, you know. 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:40.680 One of those. 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:43.080 Those are a really good way for people who hate 0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:47.120 sitting with themselves to guide you through. They do seem 0:33:47.160 --> 0:33:49.640 to be quite like a good bridge between people who 0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:52.560 don't like mindfulness, people that can kind of devil. 0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:53.520 Yeah. 0:33:53.560 --> 0:33:55.520 But then the other thing I'd say on mindfulness is, 0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:59.080 please understand everyone, there's two forms of mindfulness. There's formal 0:33:59.120 --> 0:34:03.400 mindfulness and informal mindfulness. You know, So cooking you my 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:07.040 food bag in the evening is informal mindfulness because you 0:34:07.080 --> 0:34:09.680 don't know the recipe so you have to put your 0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:14.600 attention on it fully. So that's just as good as meditation. 0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:18.000 And I think we don't shouldn't have a hierarchy around 0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:20.919 which is better, you know, do what works for you. 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:26.560 So the kind of the daily little rituals definitely help me. 0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:29.000 And that is very much around the dog walking and 0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:31.680 taking some time out during the day. 0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:34.200 Quite good at going to do. 0:34:34.200 --> 0:34:37.279 Sort of walking meetings as well, just getting away from 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:39.920 my desk and Denise and I also have what we 0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:42.800 call a coffee catch up, so we run the Institute 0:34:42.800 --> 0:34:45.440 of Well Being and Resilience together, but we try not 0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:48.600 to do all of our meetings on Zoom, So if 0:34:48.640 --> 0:34:51.880 we are both in our homes she's based in Warnica, 0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:55.080 we will often just put our airbuds on and go 0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:57.960 and have a catch up, an informal kind of teamy, 0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:01.160 you know how you're doing kind of catch up while 0:35:01.160 --> 0:35:04.560 we're washing up, putting, washing out, doing whatever it is. 0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:07.560 And that's worked really well for us as well, because. 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:08.879 It's heabit stacking, isn't it. 0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:13.000 Yeah, yeah, do two Birds, one stone. 0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:15.399 I love it, and. 0:35:15.360 --> 0:35:17.720 It's great for us because otherwise we spend our entire 0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:20.440 lives looking at spreadsheets and doing things on Zoom. And 0:35:21.000 --> 0:35:27.279 I am learning to listen to my you know, my 0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:30.520 nervous system, and I need to spend less time on 0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:33.759 tech because if you're not sleeping at night very often, 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:37.040 it's because you're wired all day long. So at least 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:39.279 doing that and I am on tech, but you're not 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:41.520 looking at a screen and you're doing other things, and 0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:43.799 I think that's probably seems to work quite well. 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:44.520 I found that. 0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:47.359 So you talked to you about is that I love 0:35:48.160 --> 0:35:49.640 it's really important to me to have. 0:35:49.640 --> 0:35:52.680 A big thing going on as well. 0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:56.759 So I'm a I don't know why, but I'm a 0:35:56.800 --> 0:36:01.040 goal setter and a adventurer and I like to have 0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:04.800 something else in my life because that kind of makes 0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:07.680 me feel better that I've not just got the daily things, 0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:10.440 but I've got those kind of bigger projects that give 0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:13.680 me meaning and purpose and accomplishment. So whether it was 0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:16.520 you know, at one point it was going to America 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:19.600 to study resilience and that was quite that shit crazy 0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:22.040 thing to do back in two thousand and nine when I. 0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:24.279 Had three children at primary school, Oh my god. 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:29.920 And then my PhD and then the Coast to Coast 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:32.920 that we did Trevor and I did in twenty and 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:37.000 twenty three, so a couple of years ago now, and. 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:39.839 You know, Ted talk. I don't know what it is. 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.040 I just like to throw myself in the team bend. 0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:48.800 That is definitely part of my wellbeing is having something 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:50.200 else that's the purpose. 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:55.799 There's purpose that that is proven, isn't it to you know, 0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:59.160 be so important to our overall sense of contentment? 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:03.280 Yeah, So actually two things. 0:37:03.480 --> 0:37:06.120 One is I did my PhD on wellbeing models and 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:09.440 looking at what well being is, so maybe helpful for 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:15.359 your listeners to understand that one of the prevailing well 0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:17.919 being most of the prevailing wellbeing models have a sense 0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:24.880 of positive emotions in them, engagement, strong connections to family 0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:32.120 and friends, meaning and purpose or wider spirituality and accomplishments, 0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:36.239 so you know, all of those things are If you're 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:39.040 doing all any of those things, then they probably are 0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:41.680 contributing to your wellbeing. But the other thing I think 0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:44.520 is quite helpful for people to know is that the 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.520 definition of wellbeing that actually came out of my PhD 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:51.000 and have come from other places too, which is that 0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:55.240 well being psychological well being is feeling good and functioning well. 0:37:56.560 --> 0:37:58.440 And if you think back to that list I just 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:01.920 shared the feeling good, the happiness, the life satisfaction, the 0:38:02.000 --> 0:38:06.200 functioning well bit is you know your relationships, your relationship 0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:10.200 to the land, your autonomy, your resilience, your optimism, all 0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:13.839 of those things. Your your ability to get out of 0:38:13.840 --> 0:38:14.759 bed and get on. 0:38:14.840 --> 0:38:15.960 And do stuff. 0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:22.200 So that kind of helps me slow down just using 0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:24.759 that definition to go, am I feeling good? 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:26.320 Am I functioning well? 0:38:27.400 --> 0:38:32.320 Or am I neglecting maybe my relationships because I'm working. 0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:39.560 I've become work obsessed, So sometimes those are helpful when. 0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:43.759 It comes to resilience, and I guess preparing yourself for 0:38:43.840 --> 0:38:46.760 tough times. Do you think that's really important that we 0:38:46.760 --> 0:38:51.840 get ahead of the traumatic events with resilience? And how 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:57.000 would you kind of advise to go about that building resilience? 0:38:57.040 --> 0:38:58.480 How the hell do you build resilience? 0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:00.400 Yeah, so it's great question. 0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:02.920 And I was reading an article by one of my colleagues, 0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:06.040 Todd Cashton, the other day, and he was talking about prezillience, 0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:09.120 which I've never come across this term before, but that 0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:11.560 was exactly what it was about, about building it in 0:39:11.640 --> 0:39:14.160 the good time so that you've got yourself better and 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:18.880 quip to cope with tough times when they come. And yes, 0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:21.640 you know, it's very true that that's what you need 0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:21.960 to do. 0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:23.240 We need to be. 0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:26.640 Just like you don't go to the gym once and 0:39:26.680 --> 0:39:31.200 then expect to be fit. You can't just do nothing 0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:34.799 and then expect yourself to be fully resourced when you 0:39:34.920 --> 0:39:37.800 find yourself in the kind of you know, dark soul 0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:39.839 of your night or in the middle of the night, 0:39:39.960 --> 0:39:43.440 so you've all going on so leaning on your friends, 0:39:44.480 --> 0:39:46.719 you can't lean on them until you've made them and 0:39:46.800 --> 0:39:49.520 prepared them and give them back to them and you know, 0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:55.120 really strengthen those social relationships. So certainly being strongly connected 0:39:55.239 --> 0:40:00.920 to others is a fantastic way of shoring up your resilience. 0:40:01.960 --> 0:40:04.760 We talk about a lot about three am people knowing 0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:07.440 who those people are that you can call should an 0:40:07.480 --> 0:40:09.719 earthquake happen or any other event in the middle of 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:14.440 the night. But also resilience requires us to be connected 0:40:14.520 --> 0:40:19.040 to not just people, but something more meaningful, you know, 0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:22.440 having that kind of serving something bigger than yourself. And 0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:24.560 that was the purpose bit that you and I were 0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:25.520 just talking about. 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:25.960 Now. 0:40:26.600 --> 0:40:33.719 So the things that prevent resilience are shonky thinking, you know, 0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:42.840 falling into negativity, particularly falling into thinking traps like unbridled pessimbism, 0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:50.720 catastrophizing black and white thinking, over personalizing. All of those 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:55.000 will prevent you from they'll just. 0:40:54.960 --> 0:40:56.520 Make being resilient harder. 0:40:56.640 --> 0:41:00.600 So we often say to people, you know that humans 0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:07.200 experience all emotions. We're designed to experience all emotions, anger, sadness, jealousy, 0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:11.560 you know, all of them, joy, beauty, pain, the whole lot. 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:13.920 But what they don't do is they don't get stuck 0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:18.480 into one emotion. So if that's you, then that is 0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:22.160 a pretty good litmus test that it's a good idea 0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:24.840 to go and get some kind of mental skills training. 0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:28.560 And my recommendation is to go and get some kind 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:33.480 of either self compassion therapy or ACT which is the 0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:39.400 acronym for acceptance and commitment therapy, because grinding it on 0:41:39.760 --> 0:41:44.760 being stuck in one particularly negative emotion is such hard work, 0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:48.040 and life doesn't need to be that hard. You know, 0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:51.120 there are ways of thinking and acting that you can learn, 0:41:51.400 --> 0:41:53.279 and if you keep practicing them over time and you 0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:57.240 build those neural pathways, it makes it easier to cope 0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:00.520 with the everyday and the tough times and they come. 0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:03.840 I like that kind of analogy of thinking of experiencing 0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:05.520 all the emotions, because sometimes you just think of to 0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:07.640 feel joy all the time. There's not a human you 0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:09.799 do need to feel the anger, You've got it. So 0:42:10.000 --> 0:42:12.719 actually aiming to get a bit of everything and is 0:42:12.719 --> 0:42:13.600 it actually really good? 0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:17.160 Yeah, I'm a really big believer of all of it. 0:42:17.440 --> 0:42:19.640 Feel it all, you know the things I end up 0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:23.120 saying a lot because I'm often around grieving people and 0:42:23.120 --> 0:42:26.200 people who are coping with tough times. Are Life's a lot, 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:30.480 isn't it, And all of it you have to walk 0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:35.400 right through all of it, and that is awful and exhausting. 0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:39.840 But the good thing is that you also see beauty 0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:47.399 and awe and compassion and unbelievable levels of kindness there 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:51.200 at the same time. So yeah, I think that that 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:53.719 is something I'm really keen to get people to understand. 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:56.560 Is all of these emotions, They're here for a purpose, 0:42:56.920 --> 0:42:59.160 you know. Don't try and quash any of them. The good, 0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:03.400 the bad, the ugly, all of them are information that 0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:05.160 you want to pay attention to. 0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:09.040 Enjoy is such an important one, something that we should 0:43:09.040 --> 0:43:10.759 strive to try and find joy in, you know, the 0:43:10.840 --> 0:43:14.400 smallest things. I can imagine after coming through your grave, 0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:19.279 joy would have been a very foreign, foreign emotion. What 0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:23.000 was it like feeling that joy again? Eventually? 0:43:24.080 --> 0:43:27.600 Yeah, I can remember two distinct moments. It was a 0:43:27.600 --> 0:43:30.560 long time, it was pretty barren lands without much joy 0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:34.800 for I don't I'm going to say I can't remember 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:37.239 how long, but two or three years I reckon And 0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:41.279 the first time was I was running in the Port 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:45.160 Hills with some pounding house music on, and I was 0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:49.640 on my own and running downhill quite fast, and I 0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:51.520 started singing along to the music and there was no 0:43:51.560 --> 0:43:52.319 one around, and I. 0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:55.160 Was like, oh, you know, WTF, who cares? I'm just 0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:57.920 going to sing. And then I had that moment of 0:43:57.960 --> 0:43:59.520 going oh. 0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:02.520 And I thought, oh, that's what that is. I've forgotten 0:44:02.560 --> 0:44:05.840 that feeling. That is joy, I mean, and joy is 0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:07.839 not even a word I really liked. But it was like, 0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:11.360 you cannot disregard that that was important. 0:44:11.600 --> 0:44:13.040 So that was one of them. 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:15.640 And then oddly the other one was at Bruce Springsteen, 0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:20.920 that beautiful concert we had sometime postquakes, and I was 0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:25.000 with a bunch of friends and one of our sons 0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:28.440 and it was just one of those amazing moments. 0:44:28.719 --> 0:44:33.360 So music's important for me to us. 0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:35.440 You know, one of my sons is a DJ, the 0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:38.080 other ones at MC. When I met my husband, he 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:43.360 owned a nightclub and a recording studio. So we're big 0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:48.240 music and every year we go to Electric hab together, 0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:51.680 you know, with the boys, and that's that is always 0:44:51.760 --> 0:44:57.640 our or joy, big love moment for us as a family. 0:44:57.840 --> 0:45:01.480 And Bruce Bringston and it's first quakes, I'd say to 0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:03.640 given us was a mess effector in it too, that 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:08.080 feeling of like, hah, I suppose you're a solidarity together, 0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:08.400 you know. 0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:10.480 And he got it. 0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:12.799 So I think that was also why it was such 0:45:12.840 --> 0:45:13.800 a beautiful evening. 0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:16.280 It was a stunning christ Church evening. 0:45:16.840 --> 0:45:21.239 And I'm not a massive Bruce fan, but he got it. 0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:23.560 And he said, you know, I always promised i'd come back. 0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:26.960 I couldn't come because I guess his concert was canceled 0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:30.799 because of the earthquakes, And yeah, he said, he just 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:33.000 that's what it was about. And you know, when our 0:45:33.080 --> 0:45:37.680 stadium opens in twenty twenty five, that will be the same. 0:45:38.160 --> 0:45:42.160 The joy that that watching that stadium get built is 0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:45.920 giving people in this region is pretty amazing. 0:45:46.239 --> 0:45:47.160 It felt because it's hope. 0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:49.640 It just fills you with hope and belief for a 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:51.600 better future one hundred percent. 0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:55.560 And it was so important, as we've learned over the years. 0:45:55.719 --> 0:45:57.760 Lucy, I like to usually rid up with some advice 0:45:57.800 --> 0:45:59.719 that you give to your younger self. I'm sure there's 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:03.480 mini piece is a wisdom that you could offer. But 0:46:03.520 --> 0:46:06.919 if there was something you'd tell Lucy, who is hitting 0:46:06.960 --> 0:46:09.280 into her twenties with a whole world and life ahead 0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:12.280 of her, what would you impart? 0:46:13.360 --> 0:46:16.719 Oh, you might make me cry, I would say. 0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:20.760 Go and believe it's all possible, and follow your heart, 0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:25.240 marry that man. And I'm going to give the final 0:46:25.280 --> 0:46:27.560 word to my dear brother who died a couple of 0:46:27.640 --> 0:46:32.879 years ago and got FTD frontal temporal dementia in his forties, 0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:36.760 which is so unfair. And he used to say to us, 0:46:37.440 --> 0:46:41.319 sometimes you sail with the wind, sometimes against it, but 0:46:41.560 --> 0:46:45.640 sail we will not drift nor lie at anchor and 0:46:46.640 --> 0:46:49.640 has become a kind of guiding mantra for my life 0:46:49.680 --> 0:46:56.319 about somehow, wherever life takes you just try and keep 0:46:56.400 --> 0:47:01.360 moving forward with what you've got and noticing what you've got, 0:47:02.200 --> 0:47:06.759 and yeah, noticing the good bits, because they're all there, 0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:09.760 even amongst all of the tough stuff. 0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:14.680 Beautiful Lucy, thank you so so much for last minute 0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:15.680 coming on with me. 0:47:15.800 --> 0:47:17.640 It was such a joy to talk to you. 0:47:17.880 --> 0:47:19.799 Thank you for all the incredible work you do and 0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.920 I really really appreciate you coming on. Well, that was 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:27.319 an episode with doctor Lucy Hohan and she is just 0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:32.640 the absolute embodiment of resilience after going through what she 0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:35.719 went through losing her twelve year old daughter in a 0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:39.680 car accident, and then to go on and share her 0:47:39.719 --> 0:47:45.080 knowledge with grief and resilience to the world. It's just 0:47:45.120 --> 0:47:49.440 so admirable and powerful. I you know, when she was 0:47:49.480 --> 0:47:52.959 talking about her experience, I could have talked about my dad. 0:47:53.320 --> 0:47:56.720 I did lose Dad back in twenty nineteen to prostate cancer, 0:47:56.760 --> 0:47:59.360 but it almost felt in a way that the grief 0:47:59.600 --> 0:48:01.000 was incomparable. 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:03.480 And I think grief can look so differently. 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:06.560 And I say that because Dad was unwell for such 0:48:06.560 --> 0:48:09.439 a long time that it almost felt like it would 0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:11.440 have been a totally different kind of grief, you know. 0:48:11.480 --> 0:48:14.160 And I think sometimes we feel, oh, my grief is 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:17.560 less than your grief. It's not necessarily that, but then 0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:21.959 hearing the sudden, tragic loss of your twelve year old daughter, 0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:26.319 it just almost felt like they were in two different categories. 0:48:26.320 --> 0:48:31.280 Because I'd had so many years to I guess expect 0:48:31.480 --> 0:48:34.640 what was going to eventually happen. I'd love to know 0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:36.919 if anyone else's experience like I don't know if that's 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:39.680 even a term, but I call it pre grieving. And 0:48:39.719 --> 0:48:41.920 I felt like I pre grieved for such a long 0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:47.000 time that when Dad actually finally passed, it was I mean, 0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:52.080 it was horrendous, and you know, there's nothing like I mean, 0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:57.400 losing a father is a very hard time, but at 0:48:57.400 --> 0:48:59.760 the same time you're kind of met with this relief 0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:04.000 that no longer and that pain and they're not suffering 0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:06.640 and you know that they can return to well. I 0:49:06.760 --> 0:49:08.800 like to think that the soul is in a better place, 0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:12.839 you know. So that was my experience with grief. And 0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:15.840 I don't know if that's a thing where people sometimes 0:49:16.120 --> 0:49:20.120 feel like their grief is less than someone else's because 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:23.000 of dot dot dot, But I did really enjoy her 0:49:24.280 --> 0:49:27.920 her message around what is still good in my life. 0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:30.160 Because your life feels so flipped upside. 0:49:29.920 --> 0:49:35.440 Down for a while, and just finding like that focal point, 0:49:35.600 --> 0:49:38.440 something that you can channel your energy into, going Okay, 0:49:37.800 --> 0:49:40.520 this is still good and I need to put my 0:49:40.560 --> 0:49:45.839 attention there and remember that slowly but surely things will 0:49:45.840 --> 0:49:48.320 come back to normal and you will find that joy eventually. 0:49:49.400 --> 0:49:53.360 In terms of how she finds a peace and chaos 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:57.120 and staying sane, I loved the ruthless prioritization. 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:01.319 I feel like it's someone with a iotic brain. That 0:50:01.520 --> 0:50:02.360 really tickled me. 0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:05.520 And I always write list and they go nowhere and 0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:08.560 I never end up taking stuff off and it just 0:50:08.640 --> 0:50:12.040 gets so overwhelming. So actually going and asking that question 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:14.000 heading into the week, what is going to make me 0:50:14.040 --> 0:50:15.880 feel the best if I get this done this week? 0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:18.120 You're no negotiables of what you've got to take off, 0:50:18.120 --> 0:50:20.400 and maybe it's three or four things instead of twenty, 0:50:21.000 --> 0:50:24.360 and you just feel like you're always falling behind. I 0:50:24.400 --> 0:50:27.440 also really like to talking about the optimization of your 0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:29.920 effective times of the day. You know, we all operate 0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:34.279 really differently and utilizing those windows, whether it's nighttime you're 0:50:34.280 --> 0:50:37.040 a little owl and you tap stuff out on the computer, 0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:38.560 or you get all that stuff that you need to 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:42.319 get done done. Then I think that's really something good 0:50:42.360 --> 0:50:44.920 to think about. And I found it interesting when you 0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:49.680 talked about seventy three percent of us will experience some. 0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:51.480 Kind of traumatic event in our life. 0:50:51.520 --> 0:50:55.719 And when you're faced with that statistic, you do realize 0:50:55.840 --> 0:51:00.759 the importance of nurturing your resilience. Zillion, are you what 0:51:00.800 --> 0:51:04.719 are you doing to work up towards I mean, it's 0:51:04.760 --> 0:51:09.440 not like expecting something bad happening, but what can you 0:51:09.560 --> 0:51:12.360 do to make sure that you're better prepared. 0:51:12.000 --> 0:51:13.120 For when something does? 0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:17.200 And I loved also just quickly talking about find your 0:51:17.200 --> 0:51:17.960 own language. 0:51:18.040 --> 0:51:18.720 You know, if. 0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:23.000 Gratitude journal or random acts of kindness, just cringe you out. 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:26.680 That's sweet as but find something else to describe it, 0:51:26.800 --> 0:51:30.600 or find your own technique that still has the same 0:51:30.719 --> 0:51:34.839 premise and like objective, but you've just kind of. 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:36.320 Given it your own a little touch. 0:51:36.880 --> 0:51:39.520 So yeah, they were my big takeaways from Lucy this week. 0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:41.520 I'd love to know what you got out of the episodes, 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:45.280 and don't be shy if you actually enjoy the podcast 0:51:45.320 --> 0:51:45.759 each week. 0:51:45.800 --> 0:51:47.280 I'd love it if you shared it. 0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:50.239 On your Instagram or your Facebook or wherever. And I'll 0:51:50.239 --> 0:51:52.879 be back next week for another episode of Slow It Down.