Speaker 1: With the Heads Podcast Network.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome back to Slow It Down. I'm your
Speaker 2: host PJ Harding, and the podcast is all about finding
Speaker 2: peace and the chaos. How can we feel a little
Speaker 2: more granded in this wild world that we're living in.
Speaker 2: And I know it's incredibly ironic. I feel like I've
Speaker 2: never been busier and I'm hosting a podcast called Slow
Speaker 2: It Down. But that's why we're doing this, to have
Speaker 2: that weekly reminder of how we can slow down and
Speaker 2: smell the roses in those mundane moments. This week, I'm
Speaker 2: joined by best selling author, international speaker she's got a
Speaker 2: top twenty TED talk, the incredible doctor Lucy Hone. She's
Speaker 2: the founder of Coping with Loss as well as director
Speaker 2: of the Institute of Wellbeing and Resilience. So when it
Speaker 2: comes to the topic of grief and resilience, Lucy.
Speaker 3: Is in clued up.
Speaker 2: And not only that, she had a harrowing, horrific firsthand
Speaker 2: experience with grief in twenty fourteen, when your twelve year
Speaker 2: old daughter Abby was probably taken in a road accident.
Speaker 3: As a mother, Ah man, you're just hearing this.
Speaker 2: It just hits so hard, and I think you often
Speaker 2: go what would I do in that situation, and honestly,
Speaker 2: I always think I would just be so weak. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I could continue on. And I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people think that what is the purpose
Speaker 2: of living after losing a child?
Speaker 3: Well, Lucy is incredibly inspiring.
Speaker 2: She doesn't sugarcoat her experience, but she sort of details
Speaker 2: how she got through slowly but surely, and what it
Speaker 2: was like eventually feeling joy again. There is so much
Speaker 2: value in this chat, and I really hope you enjoy
Speaker 2: my conversation with Lucy. I feel very privileged to have
Speaker 2: you on the podcast today because you are one busy woman.
Speaker 2: Can you talk through the last few months for you? Like,
Speaker 2: how does it look if we go through a week
Speaker 2: for doctor Lucy Heihan, what are we looking at?
Speaker 1: Hi? So hello? It is quite a busy life.
Speaker 4: I'm fortunate to have kind of created, oh professional live
Speaker 4: around doing the things I love. So lucky me and
Speaker 4: I have just flown in from Vancouver yesterday spent a
Speaker 4: week there, which is and I pretty much travel overseas
Speaker 4: every month and this year I have been to Hong Kong, Bangkok,
Speaker 4: New York, Washington, Vancouver and Sydney four times. See my
Speaker 4: husband doesn't leave the house to just counterbalance my terrible
Speaker 4: carbon footprint.
Speaker 1: That is no joke that I'm not going anywhere? Could
Speaker 1: you do it for both of us?
Speaker 3: So here's it. How long has it looked like that?
Speaker 3: For how many years?
Speaker 4: Well, in COVID it was a lot simpler because I
Speaker 4: then got to do what I would like to do,
Speaker 4: which is do this work virtually, and then my carbon
Speaker 4: footprint would be much lower. So, as you can tell,
Speaker 4: that's something that bothers me. So how I mean, I yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean I pretty much do some kind of training
Speaker 4: or a keynote most weeks and have done so probably
Speaker 4: for the last four.
Speaker 1: Years, I think, maybe since my TED talk came out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and COVID definitely.
Speaker 4: Done a light on my work for people here in
Speaker 4: Altata but globally, so that has given me that global
Speaker 4: yeah work.
Speaker 2: And so when you are gotting to do these talks,
Speaker 2: it is mainly sent here around resilience in coping with grief?
Speaker 4: Is that mainly and I've quite often I guess we
Speaker 4: all live in a culture of ongoing uncertainty, disruption, stress, challenges,
Speaker 4: changes and losses, and loss is probably the one people
Speaker 4: talk about least, but you know, most big corporates that
Speaker 4: I work for now want to be able to equip
Speaker 4: their staff to work through the ongoing change and challenges
Speaker 4: that every business is seeing globally right now. And it's
Speaker 4: my job to try and get them to understand that
Speaker 4: there are ways of thinking, acting and being that those
Speaker 4: individuals in those workplaces can do, and that's the kind
Speaker 4: of individual resilience training. But it's also my job to
Speaker 4: say to them, you have to watch your work practices too,
Speaker 4: you know, as organizations, so to try and always encourage
Speaker 4: them to take a more responsible attitude to the work
Speaker 4: can traditions that they are accountable for.
Speaker 1: And so that's a bit of a dance.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure that the conversation definitely became so much
Speaker 2: more important after COVID in what because it was there
Speaker 2: back in around two thousand and eight, the financial cush
Speaker 2: that you first of all really got interested in the
Speaker 2: word resilience and the importance of it.
Speaker 3: Is that what got you on this path?
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. In fact, PJA, two things.
Speaker 4: Now, when I look back on it, I realized two
Speaker 4: things were going on for me, In fact, three things
Speaker 4: in two thousand and eight. One was a really dear
Speaker 4: new friend of mine I was a relatively young mum
Speaker 4: explained to me that she had depression, and she was
Speaker 4: the first person I'd ever met who was very kind
Speaker 4: of outward and honest about their struggles with mental illness.
Speaker 4: And that really brought to my attention how little I
Speaker 4: knew about what we could do to support a friend
Speaker 4: or family member who was struggling with their mental health.
Speaker 4: And then I remember there was definitely a time where
Speaker 4: I just got frustrated by the fact that I kept
Speaker 4: listening to I don't know, you know, kind of radio
Speaker 4: New Zealand, and I'd open up all the kind of newsweeklies,
Speaker 4: anything from Time to the listener and everywhere. It seemed
Speaker 4: to me that we were being told that nations needed
Speaker 4: to be resilient, that economies needed to be resilient, that
Speaker 4: individuals did And that was the first time I ever thought, seriously,
Speaker 4: does anyone know what this word that is so overused means?
Speaker 1: And that was back in two thousand and eight, and
Speaker 1: if we weren't sick of it then.
Speaker 4: But the third thing that happened was I also happened
Speaker 4: to hear a probably the world's most famous living psychologist,
Speaker 4: a guy called Professor Martin Seligman, and I think he
Speaker 4: was probably visiting Arta at the time, and so I
Speaker 4: heard him on the rail and he said that if
Speaker 4: you knew your strengths, your kind of the things that
Speaker 4: were your values in action, the things that were absolutely
Speaker 4: core to you and how you want to be in life,
Speaker 4: if you knew your strengths and you use them every
Speaker 4: day and work, love and play, then that led to
Speaker 4: greater well being. And he was the first person that
Speaker 4: made me realize that we could kind of know ourselves
Speaker 4: better to perform better, feel better, function better. And so
Speaker 4: I went and did his Masters in Resilience and Wellbeing
Speaker 4: psychology over at U Penn and Philadelphia. So I think
Speaker 4: all those things coming together, which is a little.
Speaker 1: Bit how life plays out, isn't it.
Speaker 4: With me, it's one thing, But actually you look around
Speaker 4: and go there were just these threads that came together.
Speaker 4: And for anyone listening, one of my where my encouragements
Speaker 4: to you would be to listen out for or the whisper,
Speaker 4: that little voice in your head that keeps coming back
Speaker 4: and saying, hey, maybe I'm the one who could do that,
Speaker 4: you know, and to listen out for that, because that
Speaker 4: voice has taken me a long way. I think, you know,
Speaker 4: just trusting the process that you don't know the answers,
Speaker 4: that they will unravel as you go, and you might
Speaker 4: find yourself in some pretty cool places.
Speaker 3: That's so beautiful. I love.
Speaker 2: I often talk about them nudge and how that led
Speaker 2: me from literally doing this radio show in Melbourne, moving
Speaker 2: to the middle of nowhere with my husband literally no
Speaker 2: clue what was going to happen. But I've gone on
Speaker 2: to have a beautiful son, pregnant with a second, and
Speaker 2: I feel like life is more grounded. I don't feel
Speaker 2: like maybe I'm where I was.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's interesting.
Speaker 2: I feel like you take pivots throughout life and you
Speaker 2: don't have to know exactly how it's going to end up.
Speaker 2: But if you keep following the nudge, you follow what
Speaker 2: feels good, then that's quite a good met to follow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, And I don't know if you can
Speaker 4: still hear my accent, but I'm a Londoner and I'm
Speaker 4: married to London. You know, we met opposite the Blue
Speaker 4: Door in Portrabello and notting Hill, so we were real
Speaker 4: Londoners and and it's interesting, you know about the content
Speaker 4: and tone and purpose of your podcast because I think
Speaker 4: we we came here for six months and never went home,
Speaker 4: because I think we had the good sense to realize
Speaker 4: that life would be a little bit easier here to
Speaker 4: jump off the big treadmill.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it's still pretty busy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's in this podcast.
Speaker 2: I don't want to shout away from the fact that
Speaker 2: life is busy and not you know, playing it down,
Speaker 2: but it's kind of acknowledging it and bracing it, but
Speaker 2: still finding ways to slow down, you know, day in
Speaker 2: day out, so you are smell the rises, which sounds
Speaker 2: really really cheesy, But I don't want to get too
Speaker 2: late in my life and realize that I was always
Speaker 2: too busy to really really enjoy the moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Do you know the Five Regrets of the Dying. I've
Speaker 4: just done some reels on this on the Instagram and
Speaker 4: really tell me and the last one okay, so I
Speaker 4: just hope I can remember them. They are the five
Speaker 4: Regrets of the Dying, and they were identified by a
Speaker 4: palliative care nurse Australian woman called Bronnie ware In just
Speaker 4: before twenty eleven, and I first read about them in
Speaker 4: an article that came out in The Guardian in twenty
Speaker 4: and eleven, and she's written this book about the five regrets,
Speaker 4: and they are I wish I hadn't worked so hard.
Speaker 4: I wish I had lived a life true to myself
Speaker 4: and not something that somebody else wanted for me.
Speaker 1: I wish I'd kept in touch with.
Speaker 4: My you know, my old friends. I wish I've made
Speaker 4: more efforts to stay in touch with people. I wish
Speaker 4: I can't remember the fourth one, but the fifth one
Speaker 4: is I wish I'd let myself be happier.
Speaker 1: And it was that fifth reel that I looked so
Speaker 1: happen to look at my insta the other day and
Speaker 1: it's been watched by four hundred and fifty thousand people.
Speaker 4: Wow, And I thought, you know that's so telling, isn't
Speaker 4: it that people that that's what resonates with people, This
Speaker 4: idea that we do have some choice over our lived experience,
Speaker 4: and that people get to the end of their lives thinking, oh, I.
Speaker 1: Wish these are my regrets.
Speaker 4: And I wish I'd let myself be happier, to do
Speaker 4: the things that I wanted to do, to plow the
Speaker 4: path that really interested me and not what someone else
Speaker 4: wanted for me, So you know that's yea.
Speaker 3: Why do you think?
Speaker 2: Why do is it we feel that kind of constraint
Speaker 2: going through life that we can't fully embody what truly
Speaker 2: what truly makes our hearts? Saying we kind of feel
Speaker 2: like we have to stay in line and just tip away.
Speaker 1: I'm the wrong person to ask.
Speaker 4: Bizarrely, come from a family where we were not taught
Speaker 4: that we were too completely opposite. You know, I've got
Speaker 4: my sister here in New Zealand, so she emigrated here first,
Speaker 4: my brother went to the West Indies to sail, and
Speaker 4: when my mum died, we followed my sister here. And
Speaker 4: I think we've as a family always had a belief
Speaker 4: that life is short, life is for the living, and
Speaker 4: you really you've only got one stab at it, so
Speaker 4: you need to get out and do what you can
Speaker 4: and obviously juggle that with finding enough money and the
Speaker 4: home to live and eat.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's something I do.
Speaker 4: Truly think that that is part of my family's Fucker, Papa,
Speaker 4: you can't call it back to we come from North London,
Speaker 4: but you know what I.
Speaker 2: Mean, what you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, you actually worked
Speaker 2: quite closely alongside the earthquake response back in the day.
Speaker 2: I was in christ Church in twenty ten. Vividly remember
Speaker 2: that early shake in the morning, And what did that
Speaker 2: teach you about resilience, because I'm sure you learned a
Speaker 2: lot through that time, that sort of constant state of anxiety.
Speaker 3: It was a weird time. It was a weird time.
Speaker 2: Everything was just flipped upside down and everything that we
Speaker 2: knew was so unstable. So what were the biggest takeaways
Speaker 2: you got from that time?
Speaker 4: Yes, so living for two years through that earthquake period,
Speaker 4: when we had over ten thousand aftershocks and six individual
Speaker 4: massive events, definitely did give me a completely different understanding
Speaker 4: of what it was to live through ongoing, miserable disruption.
Speaker 4: So the first thing it taught me was anxiety, because
Speaker 4: I've never lived with anxiety before, and just knowing, like
Speaker 4: we used to go to bed every night thinking please
Speaker 4: don't happen tonight, you know, I just I just want
Speaker 4: me and the kids to be able to sleep over
Speaker 4: the night. I don't want to get out there in
Speaker 4: the middle of the night in the pouring rain and
Speaker 4: have to stand outside the house because we're too scared
Speaker 4: to go in it.
Speaker 1: But taught me about anxiety.
Speaker 4: It taught me, though, also about the importance when you
Speaker 4: are navigating tough times to find to really lean into
Speaker 4: the certainty and the routines that you can.
Speaker 1: Put around yourself.
Speaker 4: And that has been an ongoing kind of part of
Speaker 4: my training for other people when they're coping with tough times.
Speaker 4: So you want to put a route, any kind of
Speaker 4: semblance of routine back into your life as quickly as
Speaker 4: is possible, and that can.
Speaker 1: Be pretty sketchy routine.
Speaker 4: We're not talking kind of perfection here, but just doing
Speaker 4: what you can. So for us, that's getting up in
Speaker 4: the morning, having a cup of coffee, going to walk
Speaker 4: the dogs on the beach, you know, doing a bit
Speaker 4: of work. At the end of the day, walking the
Speaker 4: dogs again, coming home, you know, playing some music, having dinner,
Speaker 4: watching TV, going to bed, pretty routine things. And in
Speaker 4: that post quake environment, watching the kids go back to schools,
Speaker 4: even though the schools were really chaotic, it made you
Speaker 4: realize how important it was for them.
Speaker 1: So it taught me about routines.
Speaker 4: It taught me for the first time that you can
Speaker 4: grieve things other than non death losses, because I didn't
Speaker 4: know that and we did. We were the lucky ones.
Speaker 4: You know, we didn't lose anybody we loved in the earthquakes.
Speaker 4: We didn't lose our homes. My husband is a builder,
Speaker 4: so you know, actually we had lots of busy work
Speaker 4: post quakes, and yet we all felt our entire community
Speaker 4: experienced that sense of loss and grief that I now
Speaker 4: understand so much in my work can be associated.
Speaker 1: With so many non death losses.
Speaker 4: You don't have to lose someone to be grieving, And
Speaker 4: so that was my first experience. So that you know,
Speaker 4: I'm a hill runner and I always you know, live
Speaker 4: here and i can look out at the hills and
Speaker 4: I've always looked at them and thought, I'm so lucky
Speaker 4: to be able to see, you know, the neighboring tracks
Speaker 4: from our window. But then straight after the quakes, I
Speaker 4: would look at the mountains around us and think, I.
Speaker 1: Don't like you.
Speaker 4: Now, you scare me, and you're not my friend any longer.
Speaker 4: And then there's also just the lack of innocence that
Speaker 4: you just cannot believe that this kind of thing would
Speaker 4: happen to you. So certainly it did teach me a lot,
Speaker 4: and then professionally it taught me a lot about how
Speaker 4: you for me, how I could best translate the science
Speaker 4: that I was so familiar with, the resilient psychology into
Speaker 4: kind of palatable, do a relevant, practical tools that people
Speaker 4: might actually want to do in their everyday lives, because
Speaker 4: that's science to practice translation thing. It really is what
Speaker 4: interests me most. And so I had an incredible kind
Speaker 4: of professional experience of really working out what worked for
Speaker 4: other people and listening to them.
Speaker 1: So it was pretty amazing. From that point.
Speaker 2: I remember that immediate sort of sense of unknown and
Speaker 2: just like, is anything ever going to feel like it's
Speaker 2: going to return to normal again? And I think eventually
Speaker 2: there was so much importance around trusting that you could
Speaker 2: build back, but like it took a while to get
Speaker 2: there to know that life would return. And I suppose
Speaker 2: that's a lesson from grief as well, Like for when
Speaker 2: you're actually grieving the loss of a person, isn't it
Speaker 2: knowing that eventually eventually things will start to come back. Yes,
Speaker 2: they'll feel different, but you kind of just have to
Speaker 2: get through each day.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's so true.
Speaker 4: And just in case some of your listeners don't know
Speaker 4: why you and I are talking grief, a few years
Speaker 4: after the earthquakes, we lost our twelve year old daughter
Speaker 4: Abby and her best friend Ella, who was also twelve,
Speaker 4: and Ella's mum Sally, in a horrendous car accident on
Speaker 4: Queen's Birthday weekend. So yeah, so I've certainly done my
Speaker 4: time with grief, and I've done the research and exploration,
Speaker 4: you know, I've really gone taken a deep dive into
Speaker 4: healthy tools for healthy adaptation to grief in a field
Speaker 4: that I call resilient grieving. And yeah, certainly you've completely
Speaker 4: nailed it.
Speaker 1: PG.
Speaker 4: That's what it taught me was personally that it is
Speaker 4: possible to live and grieve at the same time. And
Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that that's easy or what you wanted
Speaker 4: or fun or pretty downright bloody awful. But I was
Speaker 4: lucky and that I had all this great body of
Speaker 4: knowledge behind me when Abby died. That made me, gave
Speaker 4: me hope, and it kind of gave me some tools
Speaker 4: of things, ways.
Speaker 1: Of thinking and acting that might help me.
Speaker 4: But without doubt, it is such a slog and I
Speaker 4: remember that feeling. And I'm pretty sure that when you
Speaker 4: had Janelle on the podcast recently, she said the same
Speaker 4: kind of thing that you climb a mountain every day,
Speaker 4: and it's exhausting and you're just trying to put one
Speaker 4: step in front of the other. And I remember texting
Speaker 4: my sister one day just to say, I feel like
Speaker 4: I climb the same mountain every day.
Speaker 1: You're not giving. In the morning, I wake up and.
Speaker 4: I'm backed down at the bottom again. And so it
Speaker 4: was really exhausting. But I did know that we would
Speaker 4: get through it. I was determined. Well, I may know
Speaker 4: that's probably BS. Actually I didn't know, but I hoped
Speaker 4: and I was certainly determined that we would somehow get
Speaker 4: through and relearn to live.
Speaker 1: In the world.
Speaker 4: Is one of my favorite expressions, and it comes from
Speaker 4: a researcher who I know in love called Tom Attic.
Speaker 4: He's retired now, but he has this concept that grief
Speaker 4: is about relearning to live without your person here, and
Speaker 4: that's been really helpful to me.
Speaker 2: I just I've heard you speak about the loss of
Speaker 2: your daughter, and I, first of all, I'm just so
Speaker 2: sorry for what you've been through. I cannot imagine a
Speaker 2: loss like that, and for you to continue doing the
Speaker 2: work that you do and sharing a knowledge with the
Speaker 2: world is just so special and powerful, and thank you
Speaker 2: so much. For all that you do when it comes
Speaker 2: to grieving. Because as I chat it about the Janelle, like,
Speaker 2: I still think it's a conversation that yes, we kind
Speaker 2: of open an up the chat, but we still don't
Speaker 2: go super deep in the Eastern culture, and there's still
Speaker 2: this kind of taboo around speaking. And you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think so much healing can be done from people
Speaker 2: having these deeper conversations. And what was that like having
Speaker 2: all of this knowledge around resilience behind you, Like the
Speaker 2: application of it must be so different when it's actually
Speaker 2: you in the driver's seat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure it is.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think because I was well trained and
Speaker 4: I knew that resilience is different for everybody. And I
Speaker 4: was trained by Karen riivich at U Penn who was
Speaker 4: training was responsible for training the entire US forces to
Speaker 4: be as mentally fit as they have traditionally been physically fit.
Speaker 1: And she used to say to us in.
Speaker 4: Our you know, in the classroom when I was studying
Speaker 4: my masters, she used to say that resilience is like
Speaker 4: a student.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody has different ingredients.
Speaker 4: It requires a whole load of different ingredients, and everyone
Speaker 4: has different recipes. So but you know, that was fifteen
Speaker 4: years ago now, So for fifteen years I've been telling
Speaker 4: people to find your own way and that resilience. What
Speaker 4: enables you to be resilient PJ is different to me.
Speaker 1: You know, there are.
Speaker 4: Kind of common characteristics that have been identified by science,
Speaker 4: but we know that it requires pretty ordinary internal processes,
Speaker 4: ways of thinking and acting, you know, ideally not falling
Speaker 4: into a complete negativity trap and being able to you
Speaker 4: can see my poster over my shoulder, see the good
Speaker 4: except the good I love it.
Speaker 1: That's our kind of way of doing that.
Speaker 4: So the sort of benefit, finding the note, the hunting
Speaker 4: the good stuff, noticing what's still good in your world,
Speaker 4: pulling on other people, being vulnerable, asking for help. You know,
Speaker 4: all of those things are pretty typical components of people's
Speaker 4: resilience stewes.
Speaker 1: But you've got to make it. You've got to make
Speaker 1: it happen.
Speaker 4: You've got to find the ways that will help you
Speaker 4: get through. So for me, I was on a mission
Speaker 4: to survive Abby's loss. We have two beautiful sons and
Speaker 4: my amazing husband that I was just adamant that, you know,
Speaker 4: I'd already lost so much, and I had this voice
Speaker 4: in my head saying, don't lose what you've got to
Speaker 4: what you've lost. So I was pretty mission focused, and
Speaker 4: funnily enough, that word mission. We often see this in
Speaker 4: the resilience literature, people saying, you know, I'm on a
Speaker 4: survivor's mission. I'm determined too. You kind of hear this
Speaker 4: amongst people talking. It's like a response to the last Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: like absolutely determined too. And I noticed that about what
Speaker 4: Janelle said in your other podcast with her the other day.
Speaker 1: She said, I.
Speaker 4: Will not martyr myself to people saying, you know, you
Speaker 4: only have one love in your life and you'll never
Speaker 4: survive this. And just this last week when I was
Speaker 4: in Vancouver, I was talking to a woman who'd lost
Speaker 4: one of her sons and she said to me, people
Speaker 4: kept saying to me, oh, you must be heartbroken, and
Speaker 4: she said to me, I hated that term, and I've
Speaker 4: kept wanting to say to them, I will not be
Speaker 4: broken by this.
Speaker 1: And in all of you know those my way.
Speaker 4: Of saying it, Janelle's way of saying it, this lovely
Speaker 4: woman in Vancouver called Catherine saying it.
Speaker 1: What we're all saying is we don't want to be victims.
Speaker 4: We want to find our own way through this with
Speaker 4: other people's support, but we're there is a kind of
Speaker 4: an agency and determination in there that crops up a
Speaker 4: lot in the scientific literature.
Speaker 2: Yes, because that VIC don't meant tell that it can
Speaker 2: be so self destructive. And I've heard you talk about
Speaker 2: rewiring it and rephrasing, and I suppose instead of saying
Speaker 2: why me, why not me, when you actually break it
Speaker 2: down and look at the number of people that will
Speaker 2: endure a traumatic events through their life. When you break
Speaker 2: it down, of course, you know it's actually a high
Speaker 2: answered it.
Speaker 3: Is going to happen to you.
Speaker 2: So instead of being like, oh, woe is me, it's
Speaker 2: reframing that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So yeah, the research shows that seventy three percent of
Speaker 4: us will encounter some form a potentially traumatic event in
Speaker 4: our lifetime.
Speaker 1: And yet we.
Speaker 4: Also know that in terms of prolonged grief disorder complicated grief,
Speaker 4: the levels are normally if you take COVID out of
Speaker 4: the equation, normally around ten to fifteen percent of people
Speaker 4: really struggle with their grief. So most of us somehow
Speaker 4: get through using pretty ordinary processes. And I kind of
Speaker 4: think that's the untold story of resilience, you know, we
Speaker 4: can hate the word and I'm the first person that
Speaker 4: I'm the word really most vexing, terribly vexing.
Speaker 3: It's like the word journey. I find it so.
Speaker 1: Great actually, PJ.
Speaker 4: This makes some really important point here that in my
Speaker 4: training that we deliver globally, people often talk to us
Speaker 4: about words that annoy them. So we said to them,
Speaker 4: find your own words. Don't get derailed and don't get
Speaker 4: stuck or don't miss out on some of these really
Speaker 4: potent tools and strategies just because you don't like the
Speaker 4: language around them. Because I hate the word gratitude. Honestly,
Speaker 4: if someone wanted me to do a random act of kindness,
Speaker 4: and more likely to slap them in the face.
Speaker 1: But I did. I did do one the other day.
Speaker 4: I must have done something because I was telling my
Speaker 4: husband about it and he just laughed at me and went,
Speaker 4: ooh go you with your ra k my random act.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, well, I've seen you do the
Speaker 2: stone trick, the riverstone trick with the gratitude.
Speaker 3: Can you talk through that?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 2: Because so again it's really important to find your own
Speaker 2: kind of language.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. I mean, actually I work in well
Speaker 1: being literacy.
Speaker 4: My PhD was in you know, the ways of thinking
Speaker 4: and acting that are help you find.
Speaker 1: Psychological well being.
Speaker 4: And one of those one of the findings out of
Speaker 4: that those studies came that you've got to find your way.
Speaker 4: So I do have three riverstones, and I can't see them.
Speaker 4: I can see three shells, but that's not quite the same.
Speaker 4: But I often put them in my pocket, and particularly
Speaker 4: when times are tough and no I'm up against it
Speaker 4: and I need to feel a sense of grounding, then
Speaker 4: I pop these little three stones in my pocket. And
Speaker 4: then of course I kind of bump into them throughout
Speaker 4: the day, and when I do, I just grab them
Speaker 4: and go, okay, what about now?
Speaker 1: Try and make yourself think of.
Speaker 4: What or who is still good in your world despite
Speaker 4: whatever is going on. And so that is my kind
Speaker 4: of own tailor made form of gratitude. And what I
Speaker 4: like about that is that word still is really important.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not because we're not sugarcoating this.
Speaker 3: We're still saying, you'll give my pl it sucks, right now,
Speaker 3: what is.
Speaker 1: Still good in your world?
Speaker 4: If I really made you think about it? Yeah, So,
Speaker 4: and that's very much at the core of my work.
Speaker 4: Is not diminishing the tough stuff, being really real about that,
Speaker 4: but also saying even in the worst of times, good
Speaker 4: stuff still happens. So I'm not wanting people to do
Speaker 4: the kind of happyology or toxic positivity here, but we're
Speaker 4: just talking about redressing the balance and broadening our outlooks
Speaker 4: so that we don't shut ourselves off to the good
Speaker 4: stuff that is occurring.
Speaker 1: Because you need that when you're navigating tough times.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes you do. And that's kind of what I
Speaker 2: want to talk about in this podcast each week and
Speaker 2: reiterate the importance of the small stuff, the stuff that
Speaker 2: seems like the mundane, the stuff that seems blend, but
Speaker 2: actually it's so important that we do pay attention to it.
Speaker 2: Is that what you are quite good at practicing when
Speaker 2: you're so busy, you're always on the.
Speaker 3: Go and you're traveling in life is keep deck. How
Speaker 3: do you keep that sense of ground and the groundedness.
Speaker 4: So I know, because life is busy, that I have
Speaker 4: got some pretty good strategies that work for me to
Speaker 4: keep me able to kind of keep a lid on everything.
Speaker 4: And it starts for me with number one is I'm
Speaker 4: really good at ruthless prioritization. So that phrase ruthless prioritization
Speaker 4: is at the core of many of our particularly kind
Speaker 4: of resilience training workshops we do, and basically it encourages
Speaker 4: you to start your week.
Speaker 1: What I do is, we've got my book here. I've
Speaker 1: got my book and I do a kind of a
Speaker 1: brain dump into it.
Speaker 4: You know, on a Monday morning, I just write down
Speaker 4: everything that's in my head and then I just pull
Speaker 4: a few things across to the right hand side and go, Okay,
Speaker 4: what are the things that I really need to focus
Speaker 4: on this week that if I get them sorted, I
Speaker 4: will feel effective. And actually, I noticed that this time
Speaker 4: of year, there's so many things that I had this
Speaker 4: long list that I had written on Friday that this
Speaker 4: morning I just pulled out five things and put them
Speaker 4: on my whiteboard where I.
Speaker 1: Can see them. I'm in the office all week, and
Speaker 1: I thought, I need to keep that clarity.
Speaker 3: Just speaking my language, this is good.
Speaker 2: I am such a lust writer, but such an an
Speaker 2: effective lust writer, and so many of them get lost.
Speaker 1: Lucy, I mean, you need to trust the companion. And
Speaker 1: we bought to me.
Speaker 4: So I worked with she and I bought thirty of
Speaker 4: these in a box, we just literally work our way
Speaker 4: through them, and so but having the whiteboards are good
Speaker 4: for me as well.
Speaker 1: So I really like to think.
Speaker 4: The point of ruthless prioritization is that if you focus
Speaker 4: your attention on the things that will actually make you
Speaker 4: feel effective, you are less likely to experience burnout because
Speaker 4: one of of the key components of burnout is feeling ineffective.
Speaker 4: So do yourself a favor and really make sure that
Speaker 4: you're not wasting your time on the rats and mice
Speaker 4: or in the weeds, whatever phrase works for you, and
Speaker 4: that you give yourself time to focus on deep work
Speaker 4: or important work. You know, and different people are better
Speaker 4: at different times of the day, So I think PJ,
Speaker 4: that's really important for everyone, for your listeners, for you
Speaker 4: to know when your kind of key focused times are
Speaker 4: and protect that, you know, like a demon.
Speaker 1: So don't let anyone.
Speaker 4: Don't be responding to your emails or deleting emails then,
Speaker 4: or checking your socials, you know, really make sure that
Speaker 4: you're prioritizing your peak hour so that you get important
Speaker 4: work done so that you feel effective less likely to
Speaker 4: burn out.
Speaker 3: Like your high efficiency window.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love.
Speaker 2: It because this time of year generally when most people
Speaker 2: burn out, Like, when do you find it is this
Speaker 2: sort of a pattern.
Speaker 1: I've got no idea.
Speaker 3: I don think it will be.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's the beginning of January where people just crumble away.
Speaker 4: But actually it depends on what kind of business you
Speaker 4: work in, doesn't it, Because for us October that kind
Speaker 4: of yeah, the end of the second quarter going into
Speaker 4: third quarter is sometimes the worst because we're already planning
Speaker 4: the following year while we're still in the existing year.
Speaker 4: That yeah, So I think it looks different for everyone.
Speaker 4: So Ruth's prioritization is my kind of work mantra. And
Speaker 4: then I also like to be able to focus on
Speaker 4: the good stuff. I like to have a few things
Speaker 4: that are going to go on in my day that
Speaker 4: are either islands of certainty, you know that kind of
Speaker 4: like the routine things that help me feel a bit
Speaker 4: less chaotic, the dog walking, the coffee, the Trevor and
Speaker 4: I we sit on we've got a couch outside our
Speaker 4: house here that gets a lot of sun, and we
Speaker 4: call it the sauna or the spa because it's really hot.
Speaker 4: So we'll go and have coffee there together. And then
Speaker 4: sometimes I don't do much mindfulness. But I have recently
Speaker 4: gone back into the Daily Calm app and sometimes after
Speaker 4: he and I've had coffee there, I just sit and
Speaker 4: do three minutes breathing or listen to a calm, you know.
Speaker 1: One of those.
Speaker 2: Those are a really good way for people who hate
Speaker 2: sitting with themselves to guide you through. They do seem
Speaker 2: to be quite like a good bridge between people who
Speaker 2: don't like mindfulness, people that can kind of devil.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But then the other thing I'd say on mindfulness is,
Speaker 4: please understand everyone, there's two forms of mindfulness. There's formal
Speaker 4: mindfulness and informal mindfulness. You know, So cooking you my
Speaker 4: food bag in the evening is informal mindfulness because you
Speaker 4: don't know the recipe so you have to put your
Speaker 4: attention on it fully. So that's just as good as meditation.
Speaker 4: And I think we don't shouldn't have a hierarchy around
Speaker 4: which is better, you know, do what works for you.
Speaker 4: So the kind of the daily little rituals definitely help me.
Speaker 4: And that is very much around the dog walking and
Speaker 4: taking some time out during the day.
Speaker 1: Quite good at going to do.
Speaker 4: Sort of walking meetings as well, just getting away from
Speaker 4: my desk and Denise and I also have what we
Speaker 4: call a coffee catch up, so we run the Institute
Speaker 4: of Well Being and Resilience together, but we try not
Speaker 4: to do all of our meetings on Zoom, So if
Speaker 4: we are both in our homes she's based in Warnica,
Speaker 4: we will often just put our airbuds on and go
Speaker 4: and have a catch up, an informal kind of teamy,
Speaker 4: you know how you're doing kind of catch up while
Speaker 4: we're washing up, putting, washing out, doing whatever it is.
Speaker 4: And that's worked really well for us as well, because.
Speaker 3: It's heabit stacking, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do two Birds, one stone.
Speaker 3: I love it, and.
Speaker 4: It's great for us because otherwise we spend our entire
Speaker 4: lives looking at spreadsheets and doing things on Zoom. And
Speaker 4: I am learning to listen to my you know, my
Speaker 4: nervous system, and I need to spend less time on
Speaker 4: tech because if you're not sleeping at night very often,
Speaker 4: it's because you're wired all day long. So at least
Speaker 4: doing that and I am on tech, but you're not
Speaker 4: looking at a screen and you're doing other things, and
Speaker 4: I think that's probably seems to work quite well.
Speaker 3: I found that.
Speaker 4: So you talked to you about is that I love
Speaker 4: it's really important to me to have.
Speaker 1: A big thing going on as well.
Speaker 4: So I'm a I don't know why, but I'm a
Speaker 4: goal setter and a adventurer and I like to have
Speaker 4: something else in my life because that kind of makes
Speaker 4: me feel better that I've not just got the daily things,
Speaker 4: but I've got those kind of bigger projects that give
Speaker 4: me meaning and purpose and accomplishment. So whether it was
Speaker 4: you know, at one point it was going to America
Speaker 4: to study resilience and that was quite that shit crazy
Speaker 4: thing to do back in two thousand and nine when I.
Speaker 1: Had three children at primary school, Oh my god.
Speaker 4: And then my PhD and then the Coast to Coast
Speaker 4: that we did Trevor and I did in twenty and
Speaker 4: twenty three, so a couple of years ago now, and.
Speaker 1: You know, Ted talk. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: I just like to throw myself in the team bend.
Speaker 4: That is definitely part of my wellbeing is having something
Speaker 4: else that's the purpose.
Speaker 2: There's purpose that that is proven, isn't it to you know,
Speaker 2: be so important to our overall sense of contentment?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So actually two things.
Speaker 4: One is I did my PhD on wellbeing models and
Speaker 4: looking at what well being is, so maybe helpful for
Speaker 4: your listeners to understand that one of the prevailing well
Speaker 4: being most of the prevailing wellbeing models have a sense
Speaker 4: of positive emotions in them, engagement, strong connections to family
Speaker 4: and friends, meaning and purpose or wider spirituality and accomplishments,
Speaker 4: so you know, all of those things are If you're
Speaker 4: doing all any of those things, then they probably are
Speaker 4: contributing to your wellbeing. But the other thing I think
Speaker 4: is quite helpful for people to know is that the
Speaker 4: definition of wellbeing that actually came out of my PhD
Speaker 4: and have come from other places too, which is that
Speaker 4: well being psychological well being is feeling good and functioning well.
Speaker 4: And if you think back to that list I just
Speaker 4: shared the feeling good, the happiness, the life satisfaction, the
Speaker 4: functioning well bit is you know your relationships, your relationship
Speaker 4: to the land, your autonomy, your resilience, your optimism, all
Speaker 4: of those things. Your your ability to get out of
Speaker 4: bed and get on.
Speaker 1: And do stuff.
Speaker 4: So that kind of helps me slow down just using
Speaker 4: that definition to go, am I feeling good?
Speaker 1: Am I functioning well?
Speaker 4: Or am I neglecting maybe my relationships because I'm working.
Speaker 4: I've become work obsessed, So sometimes those are helpful when.
Speaker 2: It comes to resilience, and I guess preparing yourself for
Speaker 2: tough times. Do you think that's really important that we
Speaker 2: get ahead of the traumatic events with resilience? And how
Speaker 2: would you kind of advise to go about that building resilience?
Speaker 3: How the hell do you build resilience?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's great question.
Speaker 4: And I was reading an article by one of my colleagues,
Speaker 4: Todd Cashton, the other day, and he was talking about prezillience,
Speaker 4: which I've never come across this term before, but that
Speaker 4: was exactly what it was about, about building it in
Speaker 4: the good time so that you've got yourself better and
Speaker 4: quip to cope with tough times when they come. And yes,
Speaker 4: you know, it's very true that that's what you need
Speaker 4: to do.
Speaker 1: We need to be.
Speaker 4: Just like you don't go to the gym once and
Speaker 4: then expect to be fit. You can't just do nothing
Speaker 4: and then expect yourself to be fully resourced when you
Speaker 4: find yourself in the kind of you know, dark soul
Speaker 4: of your night or in the middle of the night,
Speaker 4: so you've all going on so leaning on your friends,
Speaker 4: you can't lean on them until you've made them and
Speaker 4: prepared them and give them back to them and you know,
Speaker 4: really strengthen those social relationships. So certainly being strongly connected
Speaker 4: to others is a fantastic way of shoring up your resilience.
Speaker 4: We talk about a lot about three am people knowing
Speaker 4: who those people are that you can call should an
Speaker 4: earthquake happen or any other event in the middle of
Speaker 4: the night. But also resilience requires us to be connected
Speaker 4: to not just people, but something more meaningful, you know,
Speaker 4: having that kind of serving something bigger than yourself. And
Speaker 4: that was the purpose bit that you and I were
Speaker 4: just talking about.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: So the things that prevent resilience are shonky thinking, you know,
Speaker 4: falling into negativity, particularly falling into thinking traps like unbridled pessimbism,
Speaker 4: catastrophizing black and white thinking, over personalizing. All of those
Speaker 4: will prevent you from they'll just.
Speaker 1: Make being resilient harder.
Speaker 4: So we often say to people, you know that humans
Speaker 4: experience all emotions. We're designed to experience all emotions, anger, sadness, jealousy,
Speaker 4: you know, all of them, joy, beauty, pain, the whole lot.
Speaker 4: But what they don't do is they don't get stuck
Speaker 4: into one emotion. So if that's you, then that is
Speaker 4: a pretty good litmus test that it's a good idea
Speaker 4: to go and get some kind of mental skills training.
Speaker 4: And my recommendation is to go and get some kind
Speaker 4: of either self compassion therapy or ACT which is the
Speaker 4: acronym for acceptance and commitment therapy, because grinding it on
Speaker 4: being stuck in one particularly negative emotion is such hard work,
Speaker 4: and life doesn't need to be that hard. You know,
Speaker 4: there are ways of thinking and acting that you can learn,
Speaker 4: and if you keep practicing them over time and you
Speaker 4: build those neural pathways, it makes it easier to cope
Speaker 4: with the everyday and the tough times and they come.
Speaker 2: I like that kind of analogy of thinking of experiencing
Speaker 2: all the emotions, because sometimes you just think of to
Speaker 2: feel joy all the time. There's not a human you
Speaker 2: do need to feel the anger, You've got it. So
Speaker 2: actually aiming to get a bit of everything and is
Speaker 2: it actually really good?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a really big believer of all of it.
Speaker 4: Feel it all, you know the things I end up
Speaker 4: saying a lot because I'm often around grieving people and
Speaker 4: people who are coping with tough times. Are Life's a lot,
Speaker 4: isn't it, And all of it you have to walk
Speaker 4: right through all of it, and that is awful and exhausting.
Speaker 4: But the good thing is that you also see beauty
Speaker 4: and awe and compassion and unbelievable levels of kindness there
Speaker 4: at the same time. So yeah, I think that that
Speaker 4: is something I'm really keen to get people to understand.
Speaker 4: Is all of these emotions, They're here for a purpose,
Speaker 4: you know. Don't try and quash any of them. The good,
Speaker 4: the bad, the ugly, all of them are information that
Speaker 4: you want to pay attention to.
Speaker 2: Enjoy is such an important one, something that we should
Speaker 2: strive to try and find joy in, you know, the
Speaker 2: smallest things. I can imagine after coming through your grave,
Speaker 2: joy would have been a very foreign, foreign emotion. What
Speaker 2: was it like feeling that joy again? Eventually?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can remember two distinct moments. It was a
Speaker 4: long time, it was pretty barren lands without much joy
Speaker 4: for I don't I'm going to say I can't remember
Speaker 4: how long, but two or three years I reckon And
Speaker 4: the first time was I was running in the Port
Speaker 4: Hills with some pounding house music on, and I was
Speaker 4: on my own and running downhill quite fast, and I
Speaker 4: started singing along to the music and there was no
Speaker 4: one around, and I.
Speaker 1: Was like, oh, you know, WTF, who cares? I'm just
Speaker 1: going to sing. And then I had that moment of
Speaker 1: going oh.
Speaker 4: And I thought, oh, that's what that is. I've forgotten
Speaker 4: that feeling. That is joy, I mean, and joy is
Speaker 4: not even a word I really liked. But it was like,
Speaker 4: you cannot disregard that that was important.
Speaker 1: So that was one of them.
Speaker 4: And then oddly the other one was at Bruce Springsteen,
Speaker 4: that beautiful concert we had sometime postquakes, and I was
Speaker 4: with a bunch of friends and one of our sons
Speaker 4: and it was just one of those amazing moments.
Speaker 1: So music's important for me to us.
Speaker 4: You know, one of my sons is a DJ, the
Speaker 4: other ones at MC. When I met my husband, he
Speaker 4: owned a nightclub and a recording studio. So we're big
Speaker 4: music and every year we go to Electric hab together,
Speaker 4: you know, with the boys, and that's that is always
Speaker 4: our or joy, big love moment for us as a family.
Speaker 2: And Bruce Bringston and it's first quakes, I'd say to
Speaker 2: given us was a mess effector in it too, that
Speaker 2: feeling of like, hah, I suppose you're a solidarity together,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: And he got it.
Speaker 4: So I think that was also why it was such
Speaker 4: a beautiful evening.
Speaker 1: It was a stunning christ Church evening.
Speaker 4: And I'm not a massive Bruce fan, but he got it.
Speaker 4: And he said, you know, I always promised i'd come back.
Speaker 4: I couldn't come because I guess his concert was canceled
Speaker 4: because of the earthquakes, And yeah, he said, he just
Speaker 4: that's what it was about. And you know, when our
Speaker 4: stadium opens in twenty twenty five, that will be the same.
Speaker 4: The joy that that watching that stadium get built is
Speaker 4: giving people in this region is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: It felt because it's hope.
Speaker 4: It just fills you with hope and belief for a
Speaker 4: better future one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: And it was so important, as we've learned over the years.
Speaker 2: Lucy, I like to usually rid up with some advice
Speaker 2: that you give to your younger self. I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: mini piece is a wisdom that you could offer. But
Speaker 2: if there was something you'd tell Lucy, who is hitting
Speaker 2: into her twenties with a whole world and life ahead
Speaker 2: of her, what would you impart?
Speaker 1: Oh, you might make me cry, I would say.
Speaker 4: Go and believe it's all possible, and follow your heart,
Speaker 4: marry that man. And I'm going to give the final
Speaker 4: word to my dear brother who died a couple of
Speaker 4: years ago and got FTD frontal temporal dementia in his forties,
Speaker 4: which is so unfair. And he used to say to us,
Speaker 4: sometimes you sail with the wind, sometimes against it, but
Speaker 4: sail we will not drift nor lie at anchor and
Speaker 4: has become a kind of guiding mantra for my life
Speaker 4: about somehow, wherever life takes you just try and keep
Speaker 4: moving forward with what you've got and noticing what you've got,
Speaker 4: and yeah, noticing the good bits, because they're all there,
Speaker 4: even amongst all of the tough stuff.
Speaker 2: Beautiful Lucy, thank you so so much for last minute
Speaker 2: coming on with me.
Speaker 3: It was such a joy to talk to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you for all the incredible work you do and
Speaker 2: I really really appreciate you coming on. Well, that was
Speaker 2: an episode with doctor Lucy Hohan and she is just
Speaker 2: the absolute embodiment of resilience after going through what she
Speaker 2: went through losing her twelve year old daughter in a
Speaker 2: car accident, and then to go on and share her
Speaker 2: knowledge with grief and resilience to the world. It's just
Speaker 2: so admirable and powerful. I you know, when she was
Speaker 2: talking about her experience, I could have talked about my dad.
Speaker 2: I did lose Dad back in twenty nineteen to prostate cancer,
Speaker 2: but it almost felt in a way that the grief
Speaker 2: was incomparable.
Speaker 3: And I think grief can look so differently.
Speaker 2: And I say that because Dad was unwell for such
Speaker 2: a long time that it almost felt like it would
Speaker 2: have been a totally different kind of grief, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes we feel, oh, my grief is
Speaker 2: less than your grief. It's not necessarily that, but then
Speaker 2: hearing the sudden, tragic loss of your twelve year old daughter,
Speaker 2: it just almost felt like they were in two different categories.
Speaker 2: Because I'd had so many years to I guess expect
Speaker 2: what was going to eventually happen. I'd love to know
Speaker 2: if anyone else's experience like I don't know if that's
Speaker 2: even a term, but I call it pre grieving. And
Speaker 2: I felt like I pre grieved for such a long
Speaker 2: time that when Dad actually finally passed, it was I mean,
Speaker 2: it was horrendous, and you know, there's nothing like I mean,
Speaker 2: losing a father is a very hard time, but at
Speaker 2: the same time you're kind of met with this relief
Speaker 2: that no longer and that pain and they're not suffering
Speaker 2: and you know that they can return to well. I
Speaker 2: like to think that the soul is in a better place,
Speaker 2: you know. So that was my experience with grief. And
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a thing where people sometimes
Speaker 2: feel like their grief is less than someone else's because
Speaker 2: of dot dot dot, But I did really enjoy her
Speaker 2: her message around what is still good in my life.
Speaker 3: Because your life feels so flipped upside.
Speaker 2: Down for a while, and just finding like that focal point,
Speaker 2: something that you can channel your energy into, going Okay,
Speaker 2: this is still good and I need to put my
Speaker 2: attention there and remember that slowly but surely things will
Speaker 2: come back to normal and you will find that joy eventually.
Speaker 2: In terms of how she finds a peace and chaos
Speaker 2: and staying sane, I loved the ruthless prioritization.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's someone with a iotic brain. That
Speaker 3: really tickled me.
Speaker 2: And I always write list and they go nowhere and
Speaker 2: I never end up taking stuff off and it just
Speaker 2: gets so overwhelming. So actually going and asking that question
Speaker 2: heading into the week, what is going to make me
Speaker 2: feel the best if I get this done this week?
Speaker 2: You're no negotiables of what you've got to take off,
Speaker 2: and maybe it's three or four things instead of twenty,
Speaker 2: and you just feel like you're always falling behind. I
Speaker 2: also really like to talking about the optimization of your
Speaker 2: effective times of the day. You know, we all operate
Speaker 2: really differently and utilizing those windows, whether it's nighttime you're
Speaker 2: a little owl and you tap stuff out on the computer,
Speaker 2: or you get all that stuff that you need to
Speaker 2: get done done. Then I think that's really something good
Speaker 2: to think about. And I found it interesting when you
Speaker 2: talked about seventy three percent of us will experience some.
Speaker 3: Kind of traumatic event in our life.
Speaker 2: And when you're faced with that statistic, you do realize
Speaker 2: the importance of nurturing your resilience. Zillion, are you what
Speaker 2: are you doing to work up towards I mean, it's
Speaker 2: not like expecting something bad happening, but what can you
Speaker 2: do to make sure that you're better prepared.
Speaker 3: For when something does?
Speaker 2: And I loved also just quickly talking about find your
Speaker 2: own language.
Speaker 1: You know, if.
Speaker 2: Gratitude journal or random acts of kindness, just cringe you out.
Speaker 2: That's sweet as but find something else to describe it,
Speaker 2: or find your own technique that still has the same
Speaker 2: premise and like objective, but you've just kind of.
Speaker 3: Given it your own a little touch.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they were my big takeaways from Lucy this week.
Speaker 2: I'd love to know what you got out of the episodes,
Speaker 2: and don't be shy if you actually enjoy the podcast
Speaker 2: each week.
Speaker 3: I'd love it if you shared it.
Speaker 2: On your Instagram or your Facebook or wherever. And I'll
Speaker 2: be back next week for another episode of Slow It Down.