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Speaker 1: With the Heads Podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome back to Slow It Down. I'm your

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Speaker 2: host PJ Harding, and the podcast is all about finding

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Speaker 2: peace and the chaos. How can we feel a little

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Speaker 2: more granded in this wild world that we're living in.

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Speaker 2: And I know it's incredibly ironic. I feel like I've

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Speaker 2: never been busier and I'm hosting a podcast called Slow

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Speaker 2: It Down. But that's why we're doing this, to have

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Speaker 2: that weekly reminder of how we can slow down and

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Speaker 2: smell the roses in those mundane moments. This week, I'm

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Speaker 2: joined by best selling author, international speaker she's got a

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Speaker 2: top twenty TED talk, the incredible doctor Lucy Hone. She's

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Speaker 2: the founder of Coping with Loss as well as director

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Speaker 2: of the Institute of Wellbeing and Resilience. So when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the topic of grief and resilience, Lucy.

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Speaker 3: Is in clued up.

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Speaker 2: And not only that, she had a harrowing, horrific firsthand

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Speaker 2: experience with grief in twenty fourteen, when your twelve year

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Speaker 2: old daughter Abby was probably taken in a road accident.

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Speaker 3: As a mother, Ah man, you're just hearing this.

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Speaker 2: It just hits so hard, and I think you often

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Speaker 2: go what would I do in that situation, and honestly,

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Speaker 2: I always think I would just be so weak. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if I could continue on. And I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of people think that what is the purpose

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Speaker 2: of living after losing a child?

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Speaker 3: Well, Lucy is incredibly inspiring.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't sugarcoat her experience, but she sort of details

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Speaker 2: how she got through slowly but surely, and what it

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Speaker 2: was like eventually feeling joy again. There is so much

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Speaker 2: value in this chat, and I really hope you enjoy

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Speaker 2: my conversation with Lucy. I feel very privileged to have

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Speaker 2: you on the podcast today because you are one busy woman.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk through the last few months for you? Like,

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Speaker 2: how does it look if we go through a week

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Speaker 2: for doctor Lucy Heihan, what are we looking at?

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Speaker 1: Hi? So hello? It is quite a busy life.

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Speaker 4: I'm fortunate to have kind of created, oh professional live

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Speaker 4: around doing the things I love. So lucky me and

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Speaker 4: I have just flown in from Vancouver yesterday spent a

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Speaker 4: week there, which is and I pretty much travel overseas

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Speaker 4: every month and this year I have been to Hong Kong, Bangkok,

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Speaker 4: New York, Washington, Vancouver and Sydney four times. See my

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Speaker 4: husband doesn't leave the house to just counterbalance my terrible

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Speaker 4: carbon footprint.

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Speaker 1: That is no joke that I'm not going anywhere? Could

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Speaker 1: you do it for both of us?

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Speaker 3: So here's it. How long has it looked like that?

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Speaker 3: For how many years?

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Speaker 4: Well, in COVID it was a lot simpler because I

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Speaker 4: then got to do what I would like to do,

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Speaker 4: which is do this work virtually, and then my carbon

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Speaker 4: footprint would be much lower. So, as you can tell,

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Speaker 4: that's something that bothers me. So how I mean, I yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean I pretty much do some kind of training

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Speaker 4: or a keynote most weeks and have done so probably

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Speaker 4: for the last four.

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Speaker 1: Years, I think, maybe since my TED talk came out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and COVID definitely.

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Speaker 4: Done a light on my work for people here in

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Speaker 4: Altata but globally, so that has given me that global

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Speaker 4: yeah work.

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Speaker 2: And so when you are gotting to do these talks,

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Speaker 2: it is mainly sent here around resilience in coping with grief?

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Speaker 4: Is that mainly and I've quite often I guess we

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Speaker 4: all live in a culture of ongoing uncertainty, disruption, stress, challenges,

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Speaker 4: changes and losses, and loss is probably the one people

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Speaker 4: talk about least, but you know, most big corporates that

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Speaker 4: I work for now want to be able to equip

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Speaker 4: their staff to work through the ongoing change and challenges

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Speaker 4: that every business is seeing globally right now. And it's

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Speaker 4: my job to try and get them to understand that

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Speaker 4: there are ways of thinking, acting and being that those

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Speaker 4: individuals in those workplaces can do, and that's the kind

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Speaker 4: of individual resilience training. But it's also my job to

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Speaker 4: say to them, you have to watch your work practices too,

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Speaker 4: you know, as organizations, so to try and always encourage

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Speaker 4: them to take a more responsible attitude to the work

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Speaker 4: can traditions that they are accountable for.

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Speaker 1: And so that's a bit of a dance.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure that the conversation definitely became so much

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Speaker 2: more important after COVID in what because it was there

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Speaker 2: back in around two thousand and eight, the financial cush

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Speaker 2: that you first of all really got interested in the

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Speaker 2: word resilience and the importance of it.

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Speaker 3: Is that what got you on this path?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. In fact, PJA, two things.

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Speaker 4: Now, when I look back on it, I realized two

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Speaker 4: things were going on for me, In fact, three things

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Speaker 4: in two thousand and eight. One was a really dear

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Speaker 4: new friend of mine I was a relatively young mum

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Speaker 4: explained to me that she had depression, and she was

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Speaker 4: the first person I'd ever met who was very kind

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Speaker 4: of outward and honest about their struggles with mental illness.

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Speaker 4: And that really brought to my attention how little I

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Speaker 4: knew about what we could do to support a friend

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Speaker 4: or family member who was struggling with their mental health.

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Speaker 4: And then I remember there was definitely a time where

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Speaker 4: I just got frustrated by the fact that I kept

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Speaker 4: listening to I don't know, you know, kind of radio

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Speaker 4: New Zealand, and I'd open up all the kind of newsweeklies,

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Speaker 4: anything from Time to the listener and everywhere. It seemed

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Speaker 4: to me that we were being told that nations needed

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Speaker 4: to be resilient, that economies needed to be resilient, that

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Speaker 4: individuals did And that was the first time I ever thought, seriously,

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Speaker 4: does anyone know what this word that is so overused means?

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Speaker 1: And that was back in two thousand and eight, and

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Speaker 1: if we weren't sick of it then.

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Speaker 4: But the third thing that happened was I also happened

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Speaker 4: to hear a probably the world's most famous living psychologist,

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Speaker 4: a guy called Professor Martin Seligman, and I think he

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Speaker 4: was probably visiting Arta at the time, and so I

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Speaker 4: heard him on the rail and he said that if

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Speaker 4: you knew your strengths, your kind of the things that

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Speaker 4: were your values in action, the things that were absolutely

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Speaker 4: core to you and how you want to be in life,

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Speaker 4: if you knew your strengths and you use them every

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Speaker 4: day and work, love and play, then that led to

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Speaker 4: greater well being. And he was the first person that

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Speaker 4: made me realize that we could kind of know ourselves

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Speaker 4: better to perform better, feel better, function better. And so

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Speaker 4: I went and did his Masters in Resilience and Wellbeing

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Speaker 4: psychology over at U Penn and Philadelphia. So I think

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Speaker 4: all those things coming together, which is a little.

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Speaker 1: Bit how life plays out, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: With me, it's one thing, But actually you look around

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Speaker 4: and go there were just these threads that came together.

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Speaker 4: And for anyone listening, one of my where my encouragements

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Speaker 4: to you would be to listen out for or the whisper,

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Speaker 4: that little voice in your head that keeps coming back

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Speaker 4: and saying, hey, maybe I'm the one who could do that,

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Speaker 4: you know, and to listen out for that, because that

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Speaker 4: voice has taken me a long way. I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: just trusting the process that you don't know the answers,

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Speaker 4: that they will unravel as you go, and you might

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Speaker 4: find yourself in some pretty cool places.

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Speaker 3: That's so beautiful. I love.

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Speaker 2: I often talk about them nudge and how that led

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Speaker 2: me from literally doing this radio show in Melbourne, moving

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Speaker 2: to the middle of nowhere with my husband literally no

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Speaker 2: clue what was going to happen. But I've gone on

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Speaker 2: to have a beautiful son, pregnant with a second, and

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Speaker 2: I feel like life is more grounded. I don't feel

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Speaker 2: like maybe I'm where I was.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I feel like you take pivots throughout life and you

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Speaker 2: don't have to know exactly how it's going to end up.

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Speaker 2: But if you keep following the nudge, you follow what

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Speaker 2: feels good, then that's quite a good met to follow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, And I don't know if you can

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Speaker 4: still hear my accent, but I'm a Londoner and I'm

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Speaker 4: married to London. You know, we met opposite the Blue

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Speaker 4: Door in Portrabello and notting Hill, so we were real

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Speaker 4: Londoners and and it's interesting, you know about the content

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Speaker 4: and tone and purpose of your podcast because I think

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Speaker 4: we we came here for six months and never went home,

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Speaker 4: because I think we had the good sense to realize

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Speaker 4: that life would be a little bit easier here to

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Speaker 4: jump off the big treadmill.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it's still pretty busy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's in this podcast.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to shout away from the fact that

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Speaker 2: life is busy and not you know, playing it down,

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Speaker 2: but it's kind of acknowledging it and bracing it, but

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Speaker 2: still finding ways to slow down, you know, day in

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Speaker 2: day out, so you are smell the rises, which sounds

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Speaker 2: really really cheesy, But I don't want to get too

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Speaker 2: late in my life and realize that I was always

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Speaker 2: too busy to really really enjoy the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Do you know the Five Regrets of the Dying. I've

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Speaker 4: just done some reels on this on the Instagram and

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Speaker 4: really tell me and the last one okay, so I

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Speaker 4: just hope I can remember them. They are the five

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Speaker 4: Regrets of the Dying, and they were identified by a

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Speaker 4: palliative care nurse Australian woman called Bronnie ware In just

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Speaker 4: before twenty eleven, and I first read about them in

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Speaker 4: an article that came out in The Guardian in twenty

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Speaker 4: and eleven, and she's written this book about the five regrets,

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Speaker 4: and they are I wish I hadn't worked so hard.

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Speaker 4: I wish I had lived a life true to myself

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Speaker 4: and not something that somebody else wanted for me.

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Speaker 1: I wish I'd kept in touch with.

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Speaker 4: My you know, my old friends. I wish I've made

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Speaker 4: more efforts to stay in touch with people. I wish

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Speaker 4: I can't remember the fourth one, but the fifth one

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Speaker 4: is I wish I'd let myself be happier.

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Speaker 1: And it was that fifth reel that I looked so

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Speaker 1: happen to look at my insta the other day and

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Speaker 1: it's been watched by four hundred and fifty thousand people.

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Speaker 4: Wow, And I thought, you know that's so telling, isn't

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Speaker 4: it that people that that's what resonates with people, This

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Speaker 4: idea that we do have some choice over our lived experience,

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Speaker 4: and that people get to the end of their lives thinking, oh, I.

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Speaker 1: Wish these are my regrets.

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Speaker 4: And I wish I'd let myself be happier, to do

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Speaker 4: the things that I wanted to do, to plow the

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Speaker 4: path that really interested me and not what someone else

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Speaker 4: wanted for me, So you know that's yea.

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Speaker 3: Why do you think?

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Speaker 2: Why do is it we feel that kind of constraint

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Speaker 2: going through life that we can't fully embody what truly

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Speaker 2: what truly makes our hearts? Saying we kind of feel

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Speaker 2: like we have to stay in line and just tip away.

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Speaker 1: I'm the wrong person to ask.

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Speaker 4: Bizarrely, come from a family where we were not taught

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Speaker 4: that we were too completely opposite. You know, I've got

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Speaker 4: my sister here in New Zealand, so she emigrated here first,

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Speaker 4: my brother went to the West Indies to sail, and

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Speaker 4: when my mum died, we followed my sister here. And

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Speaker 4: I think we've as a family always had a belief

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Speaker 4: that life is short, life is for the living, and

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Speaker 4: you really you've only got one stab at it, so

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Speaker 4: you need to get out and do what you can

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Speaker 4: and obviously juggle that with finding enough money and the

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Speaker 4: home to live and eat.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's something I do.

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Speaker 4: Truly think that that is part of my family's Fucker, Papa,

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Speaker 4: you can't call it back to we come from North London,

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Speaker 4: but you know what I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, what you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, you actually worked

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Speaker 2: quite closely alongside the earthquake response back in the day.

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Speaker 2: I was in christ Church in twenty ten. Vividly remember

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Speaker 2: that early shake in the morning, And what did that

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Speaker 2: teach you about resilience, because I'm sure you learned a

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Speaker 2: lot through that time, that sort of constant state of anxiety.

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Speaker 3: It was a weird time. It was a weird time.

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Speaker 2: Everything was just flipped upside down and everything that we

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Speaker 2: knew was so unstable. So what were the biggest takeaways

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Speaker 2: you got from that time?

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Speaker 4: Yes, so living for two years through that earthquake period,

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Speaker 4: when we had over ten thousand aftershocks and six individual

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Speaker 4: massive events, definitely did give me a completely different understanding

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Speaker 4: of what it was to live through ongoing, miserable disruption.

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Speaker 4: So the first thing it taught me was anxiety, because

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Speaker 4: I've never lived with anxiety before, and just knowing, like

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Speaker 4: we used to go to bed every night thinking please

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Speaker 4: don't happen tonight, you know, I just I just want

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Speaker 4: me and the kids to be able to sleep over

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Speaker 4: the night. I don't want to get out there in

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Speaker 4: the middle of the night in the pouring rain and

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Speaker 4: have to stand outside the house because we're too scared

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Speaker 4: to go in it.

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Speaker 1: But taught me about anxiety.

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Speaker 4: It taught me, though, also about the importance when you

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Speaker 4: are navigating tough times to find to really lean into

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Speaker 4: the certainty and the routines that you can.

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Speaker 1: Put around yourself.

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Speaker 4: And that has been an ongoing kind of part of

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Speaker 4: my training for other people when they're coping with tough times.

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Speaker 4: So you want to put a route, any kind of

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Speaker 4: semblance of routine back into your life as quickly as

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Speaker 4: is possible, and that can.

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Speaker 1: Be pretty sketchy routine.

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Speaker 4: We're not talking kind of perfection here, but just doing

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Speaker 4: what you can. So for us, that's getting up in

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Speaker 4: the morning, having a cup of coffee, going to walk

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Speaker 4: the dogs on the beach, you know, doing a bit

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Speaker 4: of work. At the end of the day, walking the

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Speaker 4: dogs again, coming home, you know, playing some music, having dinner,

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Speaker 4: watching TV, going to bed, pretty routine things. And in

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Speaker 4: that post quake environment, watching the kids go back to schools,

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Speaker 4: even though the schools were really chaotic, it made you

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Speaker 4: realize how important it was for them.

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Speaker 1: So it taught me about routines.

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Speaker 4: It taught me for the first time that you can

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Speaker 4: grieve things other than non death losses, because I didn't

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Speaker 4: know that and we did. We were the lucky ones.

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Speaker 4: You know, we didn't lose anybody we loved in the earthquakes.

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Speaker 4: We didn't lose our homes. My husband is a builder,

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Speaker 4: so you know, actually we had lots of busy work

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Speaker 4: post quakes, and yet we all felt our entire community

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Speaker 4: experienced that sense of loss and grief that I now

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Speaker 4: understand so much in my work can be associated.

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Speaker 1: With so many non death losses.

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Speaker 4: You don't have to lose someone to be grieving, And

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Speaker 4: so that was my first experience. So that you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm a hill runner and I always you know, live

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Speaker 4: here and i can look out at the hills and

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Speaker 4: I've always looked at them and thought, I'm so lucky

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Speaker 4: to be able to see, you know, the neighboring tracks

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Speaker 4: from our window. But then straight after the quakes, I

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Speaker 4: would look at the mountains around us and think, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't like you.

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Speaker 4: Now, you scare me, and you're not my friend any longer.

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Speaker 4: And then there's also just the lack of innocence that

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Speaker 4: you just cannot believe that this kind of thing would

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Speaker 4: happen to you. So certainly it did teach me a lot,

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Speaker 4: and then professionally it taught me a lot about how

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Speaker 4: you for me, how I could best translate the science

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Speaker 4: that I was so familiar with, the resilient psychology into

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Speaker 4: kind of palatable, do a relevant, practical tools that people

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Speaker 4: might actually want to do in their everyday lives, because

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Speaker 4: that's science to practice translation thing. It really is what

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Speaker 4: interests me most. And so I had an incredible kind

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Speaker 4: of professional experience of really working out what worked for

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Speaker 4: other people and listening to them.

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Speaker 1: So it was pretty amazing. From that point.

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Speaker 2: I remember that immediate sort of sense of unknown and

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Speaker 2: just like, is anything ever going to feel like it's

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Speaker 2: going to return to normal again? And I think eventually

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Speaker 2: there was so much importance around trusting that you could

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Speaker 2: build back, but like it took a while to get

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Speaker 2: there to know that life would return. And I suppose

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Speaker 2: that's a lesson from grief as well, Like for when

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Speaker 2: you're actually grieving the loss of a person, isn't it

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Speaker 2: knowing that eventually eventually things will start to come back. Yes,

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Speaker 2: they'll feel different, but you kind of just have to

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Speaker 2: get through each day.

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Speaker 1: Yep, that's so true.

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Speaker 4: And just in case some of your listeners don't know

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Speaker 4: why you and I are talking grief, a few years

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Speaker 4: after the earthquakes, we lost our twelve year old daughter

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Speaker 4: Abby and her best friend Ella, who was also twelve,

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Speaker 4: and Ella's mum Sally, in a horrendous car accident on

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Speaker 4: Queen's Birthday weekend. So yeah, so I've certainly done my

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Speaker 4: time with grief, and I've done the research and exploration,

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Speaker 4: you know, I've really gone taken a deep dive into

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Speaker 4: healthy tools for healthy adaptation to grief in a field

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Speaker 4: that I call resilient grieving. And yeah, certainly you've completely

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Speaker 4: nailed it.

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Speaker 1: PG.

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Speaker 4: That's what it taught me was personally that it is

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Speaker 4: possible to live and grieve at the same time. And

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Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that that's easy or what you wanted

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Speaker 4: or fun or pretty downright bloody awful. But I was

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Speaker 4: lucky and that I had all this great body of

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Speaker 4: knowledge behind me when Abby died. That made me, gave

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Speaker 4: me hope, and it kind of gave me some tools

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Speaker 4: of things, ways.

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Speaker 1: Of thinking and acting that might help me.

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Speaker 4: But without doubt, it is such a slog and I

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Speaker 4: remember that feeling. And I'm pretty sure that when you

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Speaker 4: had Janelle on the podcast recently, she said the same

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Speaker 4: kind of thing that you climb a mountain every day,

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Speaker 4: and it's exhausting and you're just trying to put one

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Speaker 4: step in front of the other. And I remember texting

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Speaker 4: my sister one day just to say, I feel like

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Speaker 4: I climb the same mountain every day.

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Speaker 1: You're not giving. In the morning, I wake up and.

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Speaker 4: I'm backed down at the bottom again. And so it

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Speaker 4: was really exhausting. But I did know that we would

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Speaker 4: get through it. I was determined. Well, I may know

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Speaker 4: that's probably BS. Actually I didn't know, but I hoped

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Speaker 4: and I was certainly determined that we would somehow get

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Speaker 4: through and relearn to live.

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Speaker 1: In the world.

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Speaker 4: Is one of my favorite expressions, and it comes from

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Speaker 4: a researcher who I know in love called Tom Attic.

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Speaker 4: He's retired now, but he has this concept that grief

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Speaker 4: is about relearning to live without your person here, and

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Speaker 4: that's been really helpful to me.

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Speaker 2: I just I've heard you speak about the loss of

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Speaker 2: your daughter, and I, first of all, I'm just so

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Speaker 2: sorry for what you've been through. I cannot imagine a

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Speaker 2: loss like that, and for you to continue doing the

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Speaker 2: work that you do and sharing a knowledge with the

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Speaker 2: world is just so special and powerful, and thank you

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Speaker 2: so much. For all that you do when it comes

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Speaker 2: to grieving. Because as I chat it about the Janelle, like,

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Speaker 2: I still think it's a conversation that yes, we kind

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Speaker 2: of open an up the chat, but we still don't

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Speaker 2: go super deep in the Eastern culture, and there's still

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Speaker 2: this kind of taboo around speaking. And you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think so much healing can be done from people

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Speaker 2: having these deeper conversations. And what was that like having

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Speaker 2: all of this knowledge around resilience behind you, Like the

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Speaker 2: application of it must be so different when it's actually

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Speaker 2: you in the driver's seat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure it is.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think because I was well trained and

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Speaker 4: I knew that resilience is different for everybody. And I

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Speaker 4: was trained by Karen riivich at U Penn who was

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Speaker 4: training was responsible for training the entire US forces to

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Speaker 4: be as mentally fit as they have traditionally been physically fit.

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Speaker 1: And she used to say to us in.

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Speaker 4: Our you know, in the classroom when I was studying

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Speaker 4: my masters, she used to say that resilience is like

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Speaker 4: a student.

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Speaker 1: You know, everybody has different ingredients.

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Speaker 4: It requires a whole load of different ingredients, and everyone

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Speaker 4: has different recipes. So but you know, that was fifteen

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Speaker 4: years ago now, So for fifteen years I've been telling

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Speaker 4: people to find your own way and that resilience. What

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Speaker 4: enables you to be resilient PJ is different to me.

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Speaker 1: You know, there are.

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Speaker 4: Kind of common characteristics that have been identified by science,

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Speaker 4: but we know that it requires pretty ordinary internal processes,

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Speaker 4: ways of thinking and acting, you know, ideally not falling

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Speaker 4: into a complete negativity trap and being able to you

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Speaker 4: can see my poster over my shoulder, see the good

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Speaker 4: except the good I love it.

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Speaker 1: That's our kind of way of doing that.

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Speaker 4: So the sort of benefit, finding the note, the hunting

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Speaker 4: the good stuff, noticing what's still good in your world,

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Speaker 4: pulling on other people, being vulnerable, asking for help. You know,

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Speaker 4: all of those things are pretty typical components of people's

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Speaker 4: resilience stewes.

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Speaker 1: But you've got to make it. You've got to make

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Speaker 1: it happen.

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Speaker 4: You've got to find the ways that will help you

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Speaker 4: get through. So for me, I was on a mission

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Speaker 4: to survive Abby's loss. We have two beautiful sons and

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Speaker 4: my amazing husband that I was just adamant that, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'd already lost so much, and I had this voice

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Speaker 4: in my head saying, don't lose what you've got to

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Speaker 4: what you've lost. So I was pretty mission focused, and

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Speaker 4: funnily enough, that word mission. We often see this in

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Speaker 4: the resilience literature, people saying, you know, I'm on a

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Speaker 4: survivor's mission. I'm determined too. You kind of hear this

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Speaker 4: amongst people talking. It's like a response to the last Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: like absolutely determined too. And I noticed that about what

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Speaker 4: Janelle said in your other podcast with her the other day.

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Speaker 1: She said, I.

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Speaker 4: Will not martyr myself to people saying, you know, you

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Speaker 4: only have one love in your life and you'll never

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Speaker 4: survive this. And just this last week when I was

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Speaker 4: in Vancouver, I was talking to a woman who'd lost

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Speaker 4: one of her sons and she said to me, people

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Speaker 4: kept saying to me, oh, you must be heartbroken, and

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Speaker 4: she said to me, I hated that term, and I've

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Speaker 4: kept wanting to say to them, I will not be

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Speaker 4: broken by this.

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Speaker 1: And in all of you know those my way.

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Speaker 4: Of saying it, Janelle's way of saying it, this lovely

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Speaker 4: woman in Vancouver called Catherine saying it.

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Speaker 1: What we're all saying is we don't want to be victims.

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Speaker 4: We want to find our own way through this with

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Speaker 4: other people's support, but we're there is a kind of

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Speaker 4: an agency and determination in there that crops up a

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Speaker 4: lot in the scientific literature.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because that VIC don't meant tell that it can

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Speaker 2: be so self destructive. And I've heard you talk about

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Speaker 2: rewiring it and rephrasing, and I suppose instead of saying

436
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Speaker 2: why me, why not me, when you actually break it

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Speaker 2: down and look at the number of people that will

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Speaker 2: endure a traumatic events through their life. When you break

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Speaker 2: it down, of course, you know it's actually a high

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Speaker 2: answered it.

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Speaker 3: Is going to happen to you.

442
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 2: So instead of being like, oh, woe is me, it's

443
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: reframing that.

444
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

445
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 4: So yeah, the research shows that seventy three percent of

446
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 4: us will encounter some form a potentially traumatic event in

447
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 4: our lifetime.

448
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: And yet we.

449
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 4: Also know that in terms of prolonged grief disorder complicated grief,

450
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 4: the levels are normally if you take COVID out of

451
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 4: the equation, normally around ten to fifteen percent of people

452
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 4: really struggle with their grief. So most of us somehow

453
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 4: get through using pretty ordinary processes. And I kind of

454
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 4: think that's the untold story of resilience, you know, we

455
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 4: can hate the word and I'm the first person that

456
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 4: I'm the word really most vexing, terribly vexing.

457
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 3: It's like the word journey. I find it so.

458
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: Great actually, PJ.

459
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 4: This makes some really important point here that in my

460
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: training that we deliver globally, people often talk to us

461
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 4: about words that annoy them. So we said to them,

462
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 4: find your own words. Don't get derailed and don't get

463
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: stuck or don't miss out on some of these really

464
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 4: potent tools and strategies just because you don't like the

465
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 4: language around them. Because I hate the word gratitude. Honestly,

466
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 4: if someone wanted me to do a random act of kindness,

467
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 4: and more likely to slap them in the face.

468
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: But I did. I did do one the other day.

469
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 4: I must have done something because I was telling my

470
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 4: husband about it and he just laughed at me and went,

471
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 4: ooh go you with your ra k my random act.

472
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, well, I've seen you do the

473
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 2: stone trick, the riverstone trick with the gratitude.

474
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: Can you talk through that?

475
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: Is that?

476
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: Because so again it's really important to find your own

477
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 2: kind of language.

478
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. I mean, actually I work in well

479
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: being literacy.

480
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 4: My PhD was in you know, the ways of thinking

481
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 4: and acting that are help you find.

482
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: Psychological well being.

483
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 4: And one of those one of the findings out of

484
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 4: that those studies came that you've got to find your way.

485
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 4: So I do have three riverstones, and I can't see them.

486
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 4: I can see three shells, but that's not quite the same.

487
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 4: But I often put them in my pocket, and particularly

488
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 4: when times are tough and no I'm up against it

489
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 4: and I need to feel a sense of grounding, then

490
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 4: I pop these little three stones in my pocket. And

491
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 4: then of course I kind of bump into them throughout

492
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 4: the day, and when I do, I just grab them

493
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 4: and go, okay, what about now?

494
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: Try and make yourself think of.

495
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: What or who is still good in your world despite

496
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 4: whatever is going on. And so that is my kind

497
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 4: of own tailor made form of gratitude. And what I

498
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: like about that is that word still is really important.

499
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's not because we're not sugarcoating this.

500
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 3: We're still saying, you'll give my pl it sucks, right now,

501
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 3: what is.

502
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: Still good in your world?

503
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 4: If I really made you think about it? Yeah, So,

504
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 4: and that's very much at the core of my work.

505
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 4: Is not diminishing the tough stuff, being really real about that,

506
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 4: but also saying even in the worst of times, good

507
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 4: stuff still happens. So I'm not wanting people to do

508
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 4: the kind of happyology or toxic positivity here, but we're

509
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 4: just talking about redressing the balance and broadening our outlooks

510
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 4: so that we don't shut ourselves off to the good

511
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 4: stuff that is occurring.

512
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: Because you need that when you're navigating tough times.

513
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yes you do. And that's kind of what I

514
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: want to talk about in this podcast each week and

515
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: reiterate the importance of the small stuff, the stuff that

516
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: seems like the mundane, the stuff that seems blend, but

517
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: actually it's so important that we do pay attention to it.

518
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: Is that what you are quite good at practicing when

519
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: you're so busy, you're always on the.

520
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: Go and you're traveling in life is keep deck. How

521
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: do you keep that sense of ground and the groundedness.

522
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 4: So I know, because life is busy, that I have

523
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 4: got some pretty good strategies that work for me to

524
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 4: keep me able to kind of keep a lid on everything.

525
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: And it starts for me with number one is I'm

526
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 4: really good at ruthless prioritization. So that phrase ruthless prioritization

527
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,959
Speaker 4: is at the core of many of our particularly kind

528
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 4: of resilience training workshops we do, and basically it encourages

529
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 4: you to start your week.

530
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: What I do is, we've got my book here. I've

531
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: got my book and I do a kind of a

532
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: brain dump into it.

533
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 4: You know, on a Monday morning, I just write down

534
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 4: everything that's in my head and then I just pull

535
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 4: a few things across to the right hand side and go, Okay,

536
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 4: what are the things that I really need to focus

537
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 4: on this week that if I get them sorted, I

538
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 4: will feel effective. And actually, I noticed that this time

539
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 4: of year, there's so many things that I had this

540
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 4: long list that I had written on Friday that this

541
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 4: morning I just pulled out five things and put them

542
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 4: on my whiteboard where I.

543
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: Can see them. I'm in the office all week, and

544
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: I thought, I need to keep that clarity.

545
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: Just speaking my language, this is good.

546
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: I am such a lust writer, but such an an

547
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: effective lust writer, and so many of them get lost.

548
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: Lucy, I mean, you need to trust the companion. And

549
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: we bought to me.

550
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 4: So I worked with she and I bought thirty of

551
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 4: these in a box, we just literally work our way

552
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 4: through them, and so but having the whiteboards are good

553
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 4: for me as well.

554
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: So I really like to think.

555
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 4: The point of ruthless prioritization is that if you focus

556
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 4: your attention on the things that will actually make you

557
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 4: feel effective, you are less likely to experience burnout because

558
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 4: one of of the key components of burnout is feeling ineffective.

559
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 4: So do yourself a favor and really make sure that

560
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 4: you're not wasting your time on the rats and mice

561
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 4: or in the weeds, whatever phrase works for you, and

562
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 4: that you give yourself time to focus on deep work

563
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 4: or important work. You know, and different people are better

564
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 4: at different times of the day, So I think PJ,

565
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: that's really important for everyone, for your listeners, for you

566
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 4: to know when your kind of key focused times are

567
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 4: and protect that, you know, like a demon.

568
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: So don't let anyone.

569
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 4: Don't be responding to your emails or deleting emails then,

570
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 4: or checking your socials, you know, really make sure that

571
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 4: you're prioritizing your peak hour so that you get important

572
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: work done so that you feel effective less likely to

573
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 4: burn out.

574
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: Like your high efficiency window.

575
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love.

576
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: It because this time of year generally when most people

577
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: burn out, Like, when do you find it is this

578
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: sort of a pattern.

579
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: I've got no idea.

580
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: I don think it will be.

581
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: Maybe it's the beginning of January where people just crumble away.

582
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 4: But actually it depends on what kind of business you

583
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 4: work in, doesn't it, Because for us October that kind

584
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 4: of yeah, the end of the second quarter going into

585
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 4: third quarter is sometimes the worst because we're already planning

586
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 4: the following year while we're still in the existing year.

587
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 4: That yeah, So I think it looks different for everyone.

588
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 4: So Ruth's prioritization is my kind of work mantra. And

589
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 4: then I also like to be able to focus on

590
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 4: the good stuff. I like to have a few things

591
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 4: that are going to go on in my day that

592
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 4: are either islands of certainty, you know that kind of

593
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 4: like the routine things that help me feel a bit

594
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 4: less chaotic, the dog walking, the coffee, the Trevor and

595
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 4: I we sit on we've got a couch outside our

596
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 4: house here that gets a lot of sun, and we

597
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 4: call it the sauna or the spa because it's really hot.

598
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 4: So we'll go and have coffee there together. And then

599
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 4: sometimes I don't do much mindfulness. But I have recently

600
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 4: gone back into the Daily Calm app and sometimes after

601
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 4: he and I've had coffee there, I just sit and

602
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 4: do three minutes breathing or listen to a calm, you know.

603
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: One of those.

604
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: Those are a really good way for people who hate

605
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: sitting with themselves to guide you through. They do seem

606
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: to be quite like a good bridge between people who

607
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: don't like mindfulness, people that can kind of devil.

608
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

609
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 4: But then the other thing I'd say on mindfulness is,

610
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 4: please understand everyone, there's two forms of mindfulness. There's formal

611
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 4: mindfulness and informal mindfulness. You know, So cooking you my

612
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 4: food bag in the evening is informal mindfulness because you

613
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 4: don't know the recipe so you have to put your

614
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 4: attention on it fully. So that's just as good as meditation.

615
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: And I think we don't shouldn't have a hierarchy around

616
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 4: which is better, you know, do what works for you.

617
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 4: So the kind of the daily little rituals definitely help me.

618
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 4: And that is very much around the dog walking and

619
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 4: taking some time out during the day.

620
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: Quite good at going to do.

621
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 4: Sort of walking meetings as well, just getting away from

622
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 4: my desk and Denise and I also have what we

623
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 4: call a coffee catch up, so we run the Institute

624
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 4: of Well Being and Resilience together, but we try not

625
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: to do all of our meetings on Zoom, So if

626
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 4: we are both in our homes she's based in Warnica,

627
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 4: we will often just put our airbuds on and go

628
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 4: and have a catch up, an informal kind of teamy,

629
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 4: you know how you're doing kind of catch up while

630
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 4: we're washing up, putting, washing out, doing whatever it is.

631
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 4: And that's worked really well for us as well, because.

632
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 3: It's heabit stacking, isn't it.

633
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do two Birds, one stone.

634
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 3: I love it, and.

635
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 4: It's great for us because otherwise we spend our entire

636
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 4: lives looking at spreadsheets and doing things on Zoom. And

637
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 4: I am learning to listen to my you know, my

638
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 4: nervous system, and I need to spend less time on

639
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 4: tech because if you're not sleeping at night very often,

640
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 4: it's because you're wired all day long. So at least

641
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 4: doing that and I am on tech, but you're not

642
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 4: looking at a screen and you're doing other things, and

643
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 4: I think that's probably seems to work quite well.

644
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 3: I found that.

645
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 4: So you talked to you about is that I love

646
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 4: it's really important to me to have.

647
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: A big thing going on as well.

648
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 4: So I'm a I don't know why, but I'm a

649
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 4: goal setter and a adventurer and I like to have

650
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 4: something else in my life because that kind of makes

651
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 4: me feel better that I've not just got the daily things,

652
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 4: but I've got those kind of bigger projects that give

653
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 4: me meaning and purpose and accomplishment. So whether it was

654
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 4: you know, at one point it was going to America

655
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 4: to study resilience and that was quite that shit crazy

656
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 4: thing to do back in two thousand and nine when I.

657
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: Had three children at primary school, Oh my god.

658
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 4: And then my PhD and then the Coast to Coast

659
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 4: that we did Trevor and I did in twenty and

660
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 4: twenty three, so a couple of years ago now, and.

661
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: You know, Ted talk. I don't know what it is.

662
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: I just like to throw myself in the team bend.

663
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 4: That is definitely part of my wellbeing is having something

664
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 4: else that's the purpose.

665
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: There's purpose that that is proven, isn't it to you know,

666
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: be so important to our overall sense of contentment?

667
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, So actually two things.

668
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 4: One is I did my PhD on wellbeing models and

669
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 4: looking at what well being is, so maybe helpful for

670
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 4: your listeners to understand that one of the prevailing well

671
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 4: being most of the prevailing wellbeing models have a sense

672
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 4: of positive emotions in them, engagement, strong connections to family

673
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 4: and friends, meaning and purpose or wider spirituality and accomplishments,

674
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 4: so you know, all of those things are If you're

675
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 4: doing all any of those things, then they probably are

676
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 4: contributing to your wellbeing. But the other thing I think

677
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 4: is quite helpful for people to know is that the

678
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 4: definition of wellbeing that actually came out of my PhD

679
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 4: and have come from other places too, which is that

680
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 4: well being psychological well being is feeling good and functioning well.

681
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 4: And if you think back to that list I just

682
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 4: shared the feeling good, the happiness, the life satisfaction, the

683
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 4: functioning well bit is you know your relationships, your relationship

684
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 4: to the land, your autonomy, your resilience, your optimism, all

685
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 4: of those things. Your your ability to get out of

686
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 4: bed and get on.

687
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: And do stuff.

688
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 4: So that kind of helps me slow down just using

689
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 4: that definition to go, am I feeling good?

690
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: Am I functioning well?

691
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 4: Or am I neglecting maybe my relationships because I'm working.

692
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 4: I've become work obsessed, So sometimes those are helpful when.

693
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: It comes to resilience, and I guess preparing yourself for

694
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 2: tough times. Do you think that's really important that we

695
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: get ahead of the traumatic events with resilience? And how

696
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: would you kind of advise to go about that building resilience?

697
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 3: How the hell do you build resilience?

698
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's great question.

699
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 4: And I was reading an article by one of my colleagues,

700
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 4: Todd Cashton, the other day, and he was talking about prezillience,

701
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 4: which I've never come across this term before, but that

702
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 4: was exactly what it was about, about building it in

703
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 4: the good time so that you've got yourself better and

704
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 4: quip to cope with tough times when they come. And yes,

705
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 4: you know, it's very true that that's what you need

706
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 4: to do.

707
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: We need to be.

708
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 4: Just like you don't go to the gym once and

709
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: then expect to be fit. You can't just do nothing

710
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 4: and then expect yourself to be fully resourced when you

711
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 4: find yourself in the kind of you know, dark soul

712
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 4: of your night or in the middle of the night,

713
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 4: so you've all going on so leaning on your friends,

714
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 4: you can't lean on them until you've made them and

715
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 4: prepared them and give them back to them and you know,

716
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 4: really strengthen those social relationships. So certainly being strongly connected

717
00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 4: to others is a fantastic way of shoring up your resilience.

718
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 4: We talk about a lot about three am people knowing

719
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 4: who those people are that you can call should an

720
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 4: earthquake happen or any other event in the middle of

721
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 4: the night. But also resilience requires us to be connected

722
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 4: to not just people, but something more meaningful, you know,

723
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 4: having that kind of serving something bigger than yourself. And

724
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 4: that was the purpose bit that you and I were

725
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 4: just talking about.

726
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: Now.

727
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 4: So the things that prevent resilience are shonky thinking, you know,

728
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 4: falling into negativity, particularly falling into thinking traps like unbridled pessimbism,

729
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 4: catastrophizing black and white thinking, over personalizing. All of those

730
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 4: will prevent you from they'll just.

731
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: Make being resilient harder.

732
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 4: So we often say to people, you know that humans

733
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 4: experience all emotions. We're designed to experience all emotions, anger, sadness, jealousy,

734
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 4: you know, all of them, joy, beauty, pain, the whole lot.

735
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 4: But what they don't do is they don't get stuck

736
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 4: into one emotion. So if that's you, then that is

737
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 4: a pretty good litmus test that it's a good idea

738
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 4: to go and get some kind of mental skills training.

739
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 4: And my recommendation is to go and get some kind

740
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 4: of either self compassion therapy or ACT which is the

741
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 4: acronym for acceptance and commitment therapy, because grinding it on

742
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 4: being stuck in one particularly negative emotion is such hard work,

743
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: and life doesn't need to be that hard. You know,

744
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: there are ways of thinking and acting that you can learn,

745
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 4: and if you keep practicing them over time and you

746
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 4: build those neural pathways, it makes it easier to cope

747
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 4: with the everyday and the tough times and they come.

748
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: I like that kind of analogy of thinking of experiencing

749
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: all the emotions, because sometimes you just think of to

750
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: feel joy all the time. There's not a human you

751
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 2: do need to feel the anger, You've got it. So

752
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: actually aiming to get a bit of everything and is

753
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: it actually really good?

754
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a really big believer of all of it.

755
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 4: Feel it all, you know the things I end up

756
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 4: saying a lot because I'm often around grieving people and

757
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 4: people who are coping with tough times. Are Life's a lot,

758
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 4: isn't it, And all of it you have to walk

759
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 4: right through all of it, and that is awful and exhausting.

760
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 4: But the good thing is that you also see beauty

761
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 4: and awe and compassion and unbelievable levels of kindness there

762
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 4: at the same time. So yeah, I think that that

763
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 4: is something I'm really keen to get people to understand.

764
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 4: Is all of these emotions, They're here for a purpose,

765
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 4: you know. Don't try and quash any of them. The good,

766
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 4: the bad, the ugly, all of them are information that

767
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 4: you want to pay attention to.

768
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 2: Enjoy is such an important one, something that we should

769
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: strive to try and find joy in, you know, the

770
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: smallest things. I can imagine after coming through your grave,

771
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 2: joy would have been a very foreign, foreign emotion. What

772
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: was it like feeling that joy again? Eventually?

773
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can remember two distinct moments. It was a

774
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 4: long time, it was pretty barren lands without much joy

775
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 4: for I don't I'm going to say I can't remember

776
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 4: how long, but two or three years I reckon And

777
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 4: the first time was I was running in the Port

778
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 4: Hills with some pounding house music on, and I was

779
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 4: on my own and running downhill quite fast, and I

780
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 4: started singing along to the music and there was no

781
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 4: one around, and I.

782
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: Was like, oh, you know, WTF, who cares? I'm just

783
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: going to sing. And then I had that moment of

784
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: going oh.

785
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 4: And I thought, oh, that's what that is. I've forgotten

786
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 4: that feeling. That is joy, I mean, and joy is

787
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 4: not even a word I really liked. But it was like,

788
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 4: you cannot disregard that that was important.

789
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: So that was one of them.

790
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 4: And then oddly the other one was at Bruce Springsteen,

791
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 4: that beautiful concert we had sometime postquakes, and I was

792
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 4: with a bunch of friends and one of our sons

793
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 4: and it was just one of those amazing moments.

794
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: So music's important for me to us.

795
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 4: You know, one of my sons is a DJ, the

796
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 4: other ones at MC. When I met my husband, he

797
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 4: owned a nightclub and a recording studio. So we're big

798
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 4: music and every year we go to Electric hab together,

799
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 4: you know, with the boys, and that's that is always

800
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 4: our or joy, big love moment for us as a family.

801
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: And Bruce Bringston and it's first quakes, I'd say to

802
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 2: given us was a mess effector in it too, that

803
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: feeling of like, hah, I suppose you're a solidarity together,

804
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 2: you know.

805
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: And he got it.

806
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 4: So I think that was also why it was such

807
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 4: a beautiful evening.

808
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 1: It was a stunning christ Church evening.

809
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 4: And I'm not a massive Bruce fan, but he got it.

810
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 4: And he said, you know, I always promised i'd come back.

811
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 4: I couldn't come because I guess his concert was canceled

812
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 4: because of the earthquakes, And yeah, he said, he just

813
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 4: that's what it was about. And you know, when our

814
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 4: stadium opens in twenty twenty five, that will be the same.

815
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 4: The joy that that watching that stadium get built is

816
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 4: giving people in this region is pretty amazing.

817
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: It felt because it's hope.

818
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 4: It just fills you with hope and belief for a

819
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 4: better future one hundred percent.

820
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: And it was so important, as we've learned over the years.

821
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 2: Lucy, I like to usually rid up with some advice

822
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: that you give to your younger self. I'm sure there's

823
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 2: mini piece is a wisdom that you could offer. But

824
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,919
Speaker 2: if there was something you'd tell Lucy, who is hitting

825
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 2: into her twenties with a whole world and life ahead

826
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 2: of her, what would you impart?

827
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: Oh, you might make me cry, I would say.

828
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 4: Go and believe it's all possible, and follow your heart,

829
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 4: marry that man. And I'm going to give the final

830
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 4: word to my dear brother who died a couple of

831
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 4: years ago and got FTD frontal temporal dementia in his forties,

832
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 4: which is so unfair. And he used to say to us,

833
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 4: sometimes you sail with the wind, sometimes against it, but

834
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 4: sail we will not drift nor lie at anchor and

835
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 4: has become a kind of guiding mantra for my life

836
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 4: about somehow, wherever life takes you just try and keep

837
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 4: moving forward with what you've got and noticing what you've got,

838
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 4: and yeah, noticing the good bits, because they're all there,

839
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 4: even amongst all of the tough stuff.

840
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 2: Beautiful Lucy, thank you so so much for last minute

841
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 2: coming on with me.

842
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 3: It was such a joy to talk to you.

843
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 2: Thank you for all the incredible work you do and

844
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 2: I really really appreciate you coming on. Well, that was

845
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: an episode with doctor Lucy Hohan and she is just

846
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: the absolute embodiment of resilience after going through what she

847
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: went through losing her twelve year old daughter in a

848
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: car accident, and then to go on and share her

849
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: knowledge with grief and resilience to the world. It's just

850
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 2: so admirable and powerful. I you know, when she was

851
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,959
Speaker 2: talking about her experience, I could have talked about my dad.

852
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 2: I did lose Dad back in twenty nineteen to prostate cancer,

853
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: but it almost felt in a way that the grief

854
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: was incomparable.

855
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: And I think grief can look so differently.

856
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: And I say that because Dad was unwell for such

857
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 2: a long time that it almost felt like it would

858
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 2: have been a totally different kind of grief, you know.

859
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes we feel, oh, my grief is

860
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 2: less than your grief. It's not necessarily that, but then

861
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,959
Speaker 2: hearing the sudden, tragic loss of your twelve year old daughter,

862
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: it just almost felt like they were in two different categories.

863
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 2: Because I'd had so many years to I guess expect

864
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 2: what was going to eventually happen. I'd love to know

865
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 2: if anyone else's experience like I don't know if that's

866
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: even a term, but I call it pre grieving. And

867
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: I felt like I pre grieved for such a long

868
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: time that when Dad actually finally passed, it was I mean,

869
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: it was horrendous, and you know, there's nothing like I mean,

870
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 2: losing a father is a very hard time, but at

871
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 2: the same time you're kind of met with this relief

872
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: that no longer and that pain and they're not suffering

873
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: and you know that they can return to well. I

874
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 2: like to think that the soul is in a better place,

875
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: you know. So that was my experience with grief. And

876
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a thing where people sometimes

877
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 2: feel like their grief is less than someone else's because

878
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 2: of dot dot dot, But I did really enjoy her

879
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: her message around what is still good in my life.

880
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 3: Because your life feels so flipped upside.

881
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 2: Down for a while, and just finding like that focal point,

882
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: something that you can channel your energy into, going Okay,

883
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: this is still good and I need to put my

884
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 2: attention there and remember that slowly but surely things will

885
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 2: come back to normal and you will find that joy eventually.

886
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 2: In terms of how she finds a peace and chaos

887
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: and staying sane, I loved the ruthless prioritization.

888
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 3: I feel like it's someone with a iotic brain. That

889
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 3: really tickled me.

890
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 2: And I always write list and they go nowhere and

891
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: I never end up taking stuff off and it just

892
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 2: gets so overwhelming. So actually going and asking that question

893
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: heading into the week, what is going to make me

894
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 2: feel the best if I get this done this week?

895
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: You're no negotiables of what you've got to take off,

896
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 2: and maybe it's three or four things instead of twenty,

897
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 2: and you just feel like you're always falling behind. I

898
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: also really like to talking about the optimization of your

899
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: effective times of the day. You know, we all operate

900
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: really differently and utilizing those windows, whether it's nighttime you're

901
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: a little owl and you tap stuff out on the computer,

902
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: or you get all that stuff that you need to

903
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 2: get done done. Then I think that's really something good

904
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: to think about. And I found it interesting when you

905
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: talked about seventy three percent of us will experience some.

906
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 3: Kind of traumatic event in our life.

907
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: And when you're faced with that statistic, you do realize

908
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: the importance of nurturing your resilience. Zillion, are you what

909
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 2: are you doing to work up towards I mean, it's

910
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 2: not like expecting something bad happening, but what can you

911
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 2: do to make sure that you're better prepared.

912
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 3: For when something does?

913
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: And I loved also just quickly talking about find your

914
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: own language.

915
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 1: You know, if.

916
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 2: Gratitude journal or random acts of kindness, just cringe you out.

917
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: That's sweet as but find something else to describe it,

918
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: or find your own technique that still has the same

919
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 2: premise and like objective, but you've just kind of.

920
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 3: Given it your own a little touch.

921
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, they were my big takeaways from Lucy this week.

922
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: I'd love to know what you got out of the episodes,

923
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 2: and don't be shy if you actually enjoy the podcast

924
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 2: each week.

925
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,280
Speaker 3: I'd love it if you shared it.

926
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 2: On your Instagram or your Facebook or wherever. And I'll

927
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 2: be back next week for another episode of Slow It Down.