1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Chiota. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a bonus episode 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: of The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: New Zealand Herald. Former Cabinet Minister Michael Wood will be 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: running for the Labor Party in next year's general election. 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: He'll be running for the Mount Roskill seat. The former 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: MP's career came crashing down in twenty twenty three after 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: he was forced to resign as Minister for Transport after 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: it was revealed he failed to disclose his airport shares. 9 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: He resigned from the remaining ministerial portfolios after the discovery 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: of even more shares held by his trust. Today on 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: the Front Page, Michael Wood joins us to launch his 12 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: political comeback, discuss what he's actually learned and how he'll 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: work to gain back the public's confidence. So Michael, tell 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: us your big news. 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: Sure, Well, I'm announcing that I'm standing for Labor in 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: Mount Roschool in twenty twenty six. So we're less than 17 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: a year away from that general election and I'm really 18 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 2: thrilled to have been selected as the candidate. It's my home, 19 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: it's a place I love. I obviously served in the 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 2: community as the MP and another roles in the past, 21 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: and I'm ready to get into the fight and fight 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: for the people of our community. 23 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: How did this come about? Did you approach Labor or 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: did Labor approach you? 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'm well we joined at the hip. 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: Really Obviously, we lost the election in twenty twenty three, 27 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: I lost the seat of Mount Roschool and since then 28 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: we've just continued to work. So we recognize that we've 29 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: lost that we had some work to do. So we've 30 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: been on the ground, knocking on doors, holding meetings, talking 31 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: to people, and over that time, I've been thinking quite 32 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: a lot about whether this is something that I want 33 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: to do or not, because you know, twenty twenty three 34 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: was a very bruising experience that really put me on 35 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: the floor, and I need to think about whether it 36 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: was right for me, whether it was right for Labor. 37 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 2: And over that time I've reflected a lot, and you 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: come to the view that what I really enjoy is 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: fighting when I think that something is unfair, or people 40 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: aren't being. 41 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: Treated well, or the community is being neglected. 42 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: And that's really led me to the point of being 43 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: of wanting to stand and I'm really thrilled that the 44 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: party has chosen to support me in that right. 45 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: And so did you ask them to come back into 46 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: the fold or did you get a phone call from 47 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: Cris being like, we really need someone from outline. 48 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: I will look Earlier this year, I indicated my interest 49 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: to our local party because that's how we work. You 50 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: that the local organization has a big say in determining 51 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: who was the right person to stand. But also over 52 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 2: that time I've kept a really good relationship and dialogue 53 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 2: with Chris Hopkins and Hipkins and made sure that yeah, 54 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: he's aware of I want what I want to do, 55 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: and that he's supportive of that. 56 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 3: That's really important. We want to win the election next year. 57 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: We do want to change the government, want to make 58 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: Chris Hipkins a prime minister, and we need to go 59 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: forward as one unit. So great to have the local 60 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 2: support and also the support of the party. 61 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: What have we learned about disclosing shares. 62 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, it's pretty well known to say the 63 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: very least, that that was something that I didn't do 64 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: appropriately in my time in the previous when I was 65 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: in government in that period. Worst saying I did disclose 66 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: those she is my failure was to not sell them 67 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: as quickly as I should have and that's entirely on 68 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: me massive lesson learned from my point of view that 69 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: you know, when you're in one of those jobs that 70 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: is all consuming, you're working ninety hours a week, you're 71 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: trying to carve out bits of time to you know, 72 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: be a half present dad and family, you've still got 73 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: to look after those things that might seem annoying and 74 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: like small jobs, they do still matter. 75 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 3: I didn't do that. 76 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: I apologized at the time, paid a huge professional and 77 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: a massive personal cost that took me a long time 78 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: to rebuild from and it's something that is a lesson 79 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: that I have fully absorbed as I head into this process. 80 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: Did you make any decisions as minister with those shares 81 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: in mind? Even do you think subconsciously? 82 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. It was just something that was never particularly 83 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: on my mind. I can be absolutely clear about that. 84 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: For me being in politics, both as a local MP 85 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 2: and in my role as minister, your job is to 86 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: serve your community and to serve the country. That's the 87 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: approach I taken. You know, in twenty twenty three when 88 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: I did have to face up to these problems and 89 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 2: face a massive about a scrutiny. One of the things 90 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: that was a small comfort in amongst that is that 91 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: even while my political opponents were making this into an 92 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 2: issue that they wanted to talk about, they never actually 93 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: made an allegation that that was a way in which 94 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 2: I would behave because. 95 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 3: I never would. 96 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: But when it comes to that, Thoughna, obviously you've seen 97 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: that it was a massive mistake. 98 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 3: You should have done better. 99 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: Do you think it's good enough that you or your 100 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: office were contacted no less than twelve times to sort 101 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: this issue out? I mean, how does that get under 102 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: the you know, under the paperwork, so to speak. 103 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 3: How does that get lost? Yeah? 104 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: Well, look, no, I've been really clear, and I'm happy 105 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: to be clear again that that wasn't good enough. 106 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 3: That was a space that I failed in. 107 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: And you know, one of the things that I've thought 108 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: about a lot over that period, and one of the 109 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 2: things that I've learned is that you can, as an 110 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 2: individual where something's gone wrong and it's had a big cost, 111 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: you can dissect it and you can say, you know, 112 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: this person should have done better and I wasn't told 113 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: the right thing here, and you know this was exaggerated 114 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: over there. You just don't move forward. If you do that, 115 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: you just get caught up in a spiral of bitterness 116 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: and blame. You just got to take it on your shoulders, 117 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 2: except that you got it wrong, apologize and then try 118 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: and put things right. 119 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because after that happened, of course you 120 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: lost the Transport ministerial portfolio and then the rest of 121 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: your portfolios as well. And you look back at that time, 122 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: even googling your name, Now, what is it like to 123 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: read these things about yourself, these things about your work? 124 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: What is it like being described as a disgraced former 125 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: politician for example? 126 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I said before that that experience in twenty 127 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 2: twenty three and twenty twenty four really was bruising that 128 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: it put me totally on on the floor. So obviously 129 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: I paid a huge price politically at that time, but 130 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: I played a huge price personally as well, and that 131 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 2: period of twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four took 132 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: me to I've got to say, some pretty dark places 133 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: where frankly, it was difficult to go on at times. 134 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: Because one of the things about us is people, and 135 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: I think I think particularly sometimes one of the things 136 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: about us as men in New Zealand is that you're 137 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 2: you know, your standing, your status, how people view you. 138 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 2: It does, you do feel it, And so I can 139 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: acknowledge that I made real errors at that period of time. 140 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: I can take that on the chin. But yeah, when 141 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: you hear that stuff, it's really really tough and it 142 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: takes a lot of rebuilding to move on from there. 143 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: But you know, as the old saying is, it's kind 144 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: of it's not the defeat that defines you. It's what 145 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: you do to get up off the floor and carry on. 146 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: So I've worked on myself over that period. I've just 147 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: tried to focus on what I can do. You can't 148 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: control what other people say. And you know, one of 149 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: the things I'll be saying to people in Mount Roscoll 150 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: at this election is that I made those errors, but 151 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: over a long period of time. I'm someone who's focused 152 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: on our community. I've got things done for Mount Roscoll, 153 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: and I'm ready to fight on all of the things 154 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: that our community needs someone to represent them on and 155 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: fight for. Now. 156 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: And you've got your share portfolio printed and ready to go, for. 157 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: Sure, I have no shoe portfolio now. Those shares but 158 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 2: that was so many problems were sold. The proceeds were 159 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: given to charity. You know, that is a lesson that 160 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: I've fully absorbed. 161 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 4: I was both angry and also incredibly frustrated. These are 162 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 4: conversations that I've been having with Michael over several weeks, 163 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 4: and to I only learn of these yesterday when repeatedly, 164 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 4: through numerous conversations, I've asked him if there are other 165 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 4: issues that I should be aware of, and he has 166 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 4: said no, that's beyond frustrating. 167 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: How do you think, because obviously going into twenty twenty six, 168 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: going to the election, like I said, the first thing 169 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: that comes up when you google your name is the 170 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: situation that happened in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. 171 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: How do you think, how will you gain Kiwi's trust? 172 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: If somebody comes up to you, You're on a street corner, 173 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: you're doing a street corner chat, and they come up 174 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: to you and say, but weren't you the bloke who 175 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: did this? You know, how do you gain that trust back? 176 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 3: Yeah? 177 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: Well, what I tend to find with people is that 178 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 2: you know, people are reasonable and forgiving if you're open 179 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: and straight with them. We've all made mistakes in our lives, 180 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: all of us. That was mine, It's just that mine 181 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: is a lot more on the public record than many people, 182 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 2: so you need to acknowledge that, be really clear about it. 183 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: But my focus is on winning a mandate and support 184 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: in Mount Ross School, and so what I'll talk to 185 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 2: those people about is what actually matters in our community. 186 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: Stuff like the fact that huge parts of our community 187 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: are a wasteland because housing investment has been stopped. We 188 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: have a huge amount of homelessness, We have people who 189 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: have massive issues with a lack of support for the 190 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 2: fact that their properties keep flooding, and that My record 191 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: in Mount Rosschool has been to go into bat and 192 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: fight on that stuff and win stuff and achieve things. 193 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: And in my ministerial role, yep, you might look that 194 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: up and those bad stories come up, but I'm proud 195 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: of the fact that actually there was a lot of 196 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: big good stuff that I got over the line because 197 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: I do go in and I do fight for these things, 198 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: and I did a good job in those roles. This 199 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 2: issue accepting, So I'll be open with people. I'll take 200 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: it on the but then i want to know what 201 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: they want to see from their representative, and I've got 202 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 2: a track record to show that I will fight for them. 203 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 3: Well. 204 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: Actually, the second thing that comes up when you Google 205 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: your name is you on a bike testing out a 206 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: new bike path. So that's testament too, probably what you 207 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: said there in terms of what you've been doing since 208 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. You're currently a director at at two. 209 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: I assume you'll be leaving that role. 210 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: Well, a guy still got to put food on the table, 211 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: so I need to continue working in the coming period, 212 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: and that's important work for me. 213 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 3: It's a part of who I am. 214 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: As I said before that I like to fight when 215 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 2: I think that something is not fear or needs changing 216 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: in our community, and I enjoy that part of my role. 217 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 2: So I'll be continuing to work in that role. But yeah, 218 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: a little closer to the election, I'll be taking leave 219 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 2: from that role so that I can focus fully on 220 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: the campaign and trying to win Mount Roscal. 221 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 222 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: Do you are you scared that somebody would perhaps see 223 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: that as a conflict of interest? 224 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I'd say quite the opposite. 225 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: I've always been someone who's been a part of that 226 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 2: broader labor movement. Thing in politics that drives before the 227 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: most is this basic idea that working people should be 228 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 2: treated fairly, should be able to live a decent life, 229 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 2: should be able to have a voice, shouldn't be squashed 230 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: down with those who have a lot of power, money 231 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: and influence. And you know, I do some of that 232 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 2: work in my union role, but also working in the. 233 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 3: Political space is a part of that. 234 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: So I see to something that's that's really consistent, and 235 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: it is obviously pretty well out there as well, so 236 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: people know who I am, they know what I do. 237 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: Have you had any conversations with say Chris Hopkins for example, 238 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: about because he'll you know, obviously be a your new 239 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: boss again about being transparent and what happened you know, 240 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: did you have a debrief or something before you came 241 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: out and said, look, let's do it again in twenty 242 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: twenty sex. 243 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is something that I've talked to Chris about 244 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: and obviously there are real lessons to learn from the 245 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: mistakes that I made at that time, but also there 246 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 2: are ongoing issues in the parliamentary space. These issues do 247 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 2: bubble up from time to time, and I know that 248 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: Chris's leader and hopefully our next Prime minister, that he 249 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: really wants this to be an area that there's some 250 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: focus on. You've got to make sure that people are 251 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: not just doing the right thing and behaving in the 252 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: right way, but that the public can have confidence in that, 253 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 2: because sometimes the perceptions are as important in terms of 254 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 2: having trust as the realities. So I know that's something 255 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 2: that he's really focused on. It's something as I say, 256 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: that I've very much learned the hard way, and if 257 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 2: there are ways in which I can help people to 258 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 2: understand the importance of getting that right, then I'm happy 259 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 2: to do that. I am a great believer that when 260 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: you fall, you do sometimes learn lessons, and there's a 261 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 2: bit of a duty and obligation then to try and 262 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: do something good out of that. And if I can 263 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 2: help to show people that you can get up off 264 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 2: the floor and do good things again, and if I 265 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: can contribute in this space in terms of encouraging openness 266 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: and transparency, then that's something I'd. 267 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 3: Like to do. 268 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Michael, Thank you pleasure. That's it 269 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: for this episode of The Front Page. You can read 270 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzidherld 271 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by 272 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who's also our editor. I'm 273 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or 274 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for 275 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: another look behind the headlines.