1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:00,800
Speaker 1: With me on the heart.

2
00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,600
Speaker 2: We've got Patty Gower. His documentary is Paddy Gower or

3
00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,120
Speaker 2: Nice and Tim Wilson of the Maximums.

4
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: Did you tie? Lads?

5
00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,680
Speaker 3: How the going very well? Thank you Patty, you're there.

6
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 1: I was worried that we'd lost you for a tech.

7
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:14,240
Speaker 1: It's going very well.

8
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,720
Speaker 4: Now I'm here and still unemployed. I know you like

9
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:18,479
Speaker 4: to check in on that.

10
00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,919
Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like Paddy, you're about to

11
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,280
Speaker 2: be employed. But we will talk about this. We'll talk

12
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,040
Speaker 2: about this maybe later, maybe all fair. Oh, I don't

13
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,720
Speaker 2: want to be spiking the opposition too much. Tim, how

14
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,720
Speaker 2: what do you make of method X shutting down for

15
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 2: two and a half months now?

16
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does seem like it does seem like the

17
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,960
Speaker 3: sort of best response to a bad situation. But the

18
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,280
Speaker 3: question is we'll let get us through winter and and

19
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 3: what's next if we can't? I mean, you know, I

20
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 3: think that's problematic. What if we can't import more cold

21
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,160
Speaker 3: for example. I don't know. I just feel like we're

22
00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 3: in a situation. If we look at energy security, if

23
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 3: we get healthcare, if we look at education, infrastructure, et set,

24
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:04,760
Speaker 3: we feel I feel like we're teaching on sort of

25
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 3: second world country food.

26
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:07,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, Patty.

27
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:08,880
Speaker 2: I mean, do you get that feeling if you are

28
00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 2: shutting down your biggest gas producer, which is an export

29
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,240
Speaker 2: earner for us, You're shutting down mills all the way

30
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,759
Speaker 2: up and down the country. That's pretty second third world.

31
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you've got to think about it as well.

32
00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,240
Speaker 4: Meta and X hasn't done this out of the goodness

33
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,280
Speaker 4: of its heart or in someway half head. But there'll

34
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 4: be a deal in the background here. Somebody is paying

35
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 4: somewhere for this deal to happen. And you know, it's

36
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,600
Speaker 4: so we're shutting down methin X, we're talking about importing

37
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,800
Speaker 4: gas if we can. It does seem like a band

38
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,520
Speaker 4: aid over a leaking energy pipeline, and it seems like

39
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 4: a real worry. And it's just you know, if you

40
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,880
Speaker 4: don't know, if you're queuing for power, which is kind

41
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 4: of what we're starting to do, it's sort of we're

42
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 4: starting to rob Peter to pay Paul all over the country.

43
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 4: You know, it's only one thing beneath people queuing for

44
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 4: food and stuff like that. It's a mess, you guys.

45
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 3: Actually, Method X, the methodexs X, they're going to make

46
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 3: more dough doing this than by doing their normal business,

47
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,000
Speaker 3: so they're expecting the actually profits are going to go up.

48
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,920
Speaker 3: I'm not a posed to that, I'm not a post

49
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 3: to that, but I'm the post of the situation that

50
00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,079
Speaker 3: takes you.

51
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 2: Tim, is how much Contact and Genesis are paying for

52
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 2: that gas? Therefore, how much you the consumer are paying

53
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 2: for that gas?

54
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:20,440
Speaker 4: Right?

55
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 1: It's not it's really expensive.

56
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:23,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

57
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:25,360
Speaker 2: Okay, Patty, I was going to I was going to

58
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:26,960
Speaker 2: ask Tim this, but I'm going to ask you this.

59
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,160
Speaker 1: Who's who's to blame? Whose fault is it that we're

60
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:30,800
Speaker 1: in this position?

61
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:37,080
Speaker 4: Generations and generations of kiwis who have let the power

62
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 4: market sort of run while and no one has been

63
00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 4: had the gaps to get in and fix it. So

64
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 4: QWIT has stood by and not been able to understand

65
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,360
Speaker 4: this and not been able to make it the political

66
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 4: issue that it needs to be.

67
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 1: So what do we do? What is the fact.

68
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,480
Speaker 4: Government after government has tripped kiwis and tried to dodge

69
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 4: it and whatnot, and we've been left for the mess

70
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,639
Speaker 4: in the background that nobody's bet to clean up. Need

71
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 4: to get in rip the market to pieces change it up.

72
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,800
Speaker 4: Have a telecoon moment that's that's it, straightforward something. I

73
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,960
Speaker 4: doubt it. I think we've got a big talker there

74
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 4: in Shane Jones. I've never seen them actually do much.

75
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 4: I don't think we'd have got to do this. Do

76
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 4: they have someone in there with the brains and the

77
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 4: manner to get in there and give it a telecon moment?

78
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,400
Speaker 4: Or are they just going to dodge it for another

79
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 4: winter and leave it with this? I reckon they'll dodge it.

80
00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:24,600
Speaker 1: What do you reckon?

81
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 3: The fix is, Tim, It's a nuclear fusion plant in

82
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,919
Speaker 3: the White Cuttle. It's going to cost a bunch of money.

83
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:32,919
Speaker 3: It's going to cost a bunch of money, but it

84
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 3: will actually guarantee renewable clean energy for generations to come.

85
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 3: Let's debate it. At least let's debate it.

86
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 1: I mean, Tim, you.

87
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,880
Speaker 2: Saw how we reacted to Cornngate twenty years ago. How

88
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 2: do you think we're going to react to this?

89
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:48,840
Speaker 4: Come enough?

90
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 1: Unrealistic?

91
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 3: Look, I tell you what, I'll tell you what though.

92
00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,880
Speaker 3: It's you know, we're probably going to get to the

93
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 3: the Hobson's Pledge issue. But we've got this idea that

94
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,360
Speaker 3: they are just that we can't discuss anymore. But not

95
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,840
Speaker 3: even anymore. We've just got this idea. There are things

96
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,840
Speaker 3: that we can't discuss. Maybe it's because we're a small

97
00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 3: society and we don't want to offend the neighbors. But

98
00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 3: we've got to be able to transact this stuff and

99
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 3: publish in public. Pardon me without crying.

100
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 1: Yep. Actually you make a really good point.

101
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 2: All right, guys, we'll come back and we will discuss

102
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 2: the options places you very.

103
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 1: Shortly back with the huddle.

104
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,200
Speaker 2: Tim Wilson, Patty Gal, all right, Tim, what do you

105
00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 2: what do you think about this gene editing ban?

106
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 1: Are you surprised of the lack of opposition?

107
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:28,880
Speaker 4: Yeah?

108
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,919
Speaker 3: You know what, you know, what's really interesting for me

109
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,440
Speaker 3: is the support that sort of seems to be congealing

110
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,640
Speaker 3: on the Green side. So this this, what this says

111
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,120
Speaker 3: to me is that the Green Party now no longer

112
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 3: is the party of the Corimandel Greens. It's the party

113
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,560
Speaker 3: of the Auckland Central Greens. So I think that's that's

114
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,120
Speaker 3: that's a big barometer.

115
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you, Patty, what do you reckon?

116
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 4: I think we need to go crush a Colins a

117
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,640
Speaker 4: big pat on the back, but just getting them and

118
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,520
Speaker 4: getting this thing done I actually think the Greens, even

119
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 4: though they seem to be sort of working their way

120
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,600
Speaker 4: around to support and too slow, too late. I mean

121
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,159
Speaker 4: Corngate was decades ago. Labor as well, too slow, too late.

122
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,640
Speaker 4: They need to be genetically modified themselves with some crush

123
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 4: of colins and come on board with something. Listen to

124
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,440
Speaker 4: the scientists, Listen to what the chat from every science

125
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,160
Speaker 4: was saying to you before. Let's get out, create some

126
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,360
Speaker 4: grasses genetically modified and that give less methane and so

127
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 4: the climate change should potentially I'm sorry that labor and

128
00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 4: the Greens are letting me down. Get out and get

129
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 4: out and support it and think you crush the colins.

130
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

131
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 2: But the thing that I find surprising, Tim, is that

132
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,360
Speaker 2: usually it takes us quite a long time to completely

133
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,359
Speaker 2: flip our opinion on something. But twenty years to flip

134
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,159
Speaker 2: your opinion from two thousand and two, where it almost

135
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 2: caused Talon to come unstuck in that election, to suddenly

136
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,280
Speaker 2: be absolutely chill about it is that's quite remarkable.

137
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. You know, I think that suggests well

138
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,400
Speaker 3: the issue. The issue is that people are just they're

139
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 3: more comfortable with technology, they're more comfortable with interventions in

140
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 3: quote unquote nature. Now I would say that's a trend.

141
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,719
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's necessarily a good thing. And

142
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,240
Speaker 3: just you know, I was discussing this with some of

143
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 3: my colleagues and you know that they were breeding rats

144
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,599
Speaker 3: and the orts that could glow in the dark. This

145
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 3: is in New Zealand.

146
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,560
Speaker 2: So we did you read about this on a conspiracy website?

147
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:25,200
Speaker 4: No?

148
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,240
Speaker 3: I didn't, No, I didn't. My I talked to a

149
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,720
Speaker 3: mate at work who's who's who was at school in Hamilton,

150
00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,840
Speaker 3: And as as mate's dad was doing it at some laboratory,

151
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,080
Speaker 3: I'm saying actually him, well, I would love to be

152
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 3: I would love to be able to glow in the

153
00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:44,600
Speaker 3: dark myself.

154
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,039
Speaker 2: No, it's quite handy, isn't it though, isn't it, Patty,

155
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 2: Because then if you've got that, like if you're doing

156
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,160
Speaker 2: peace control with the rats who are killing ourbo did

157
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,800
Speaker 2: you just look for the glow in the dark little buggers?

158
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 1: Get them?

159
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,800
Speaker 4: It's it's it's useful for peace control. It actually really is,

160
00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,240
Speaker 4: you know, all joking side, it's useful for all the stuff.

161
00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 4: But for some idiotic reason, we've been sitting on our

162
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 4: hands over it's while the rest of the world has

163
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,200
Speaker 4: jumped a head. Apparently we've lost count of the young

164
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 4: scientists that have left the country because they just want

165
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,080
Speaker 4: to get on with the job. And here we're still

166
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 4: sitting here. Labor in the Greens can't decide whether they're

167
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,800
Speaker 4: going to support Crusher coins or not. Genetically modify Crusher

168
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,880
Speaker 4: and start to put her inside the greens and labor,

169
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,600
Speaker 4: and we will have a better country.

170
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,640
Speaker 2: Genetically modify her and twenty of her around the cabinet

171
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:27,280
Speaker 2: table everything.

172
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, idify here and put a next door to

173
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 4: a few Kiwis as well, and we'll be having a

174
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,000
Speaker 4: much more exciting life.

175
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 3: I know what we can do. We can solve our

176
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 3: demographic crisis by gene editing a race of superhumans.

177
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 4: Oh wait, I've already got four of those.

178
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 3: I wonder how the Lord jellywipers.

179
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 2: You're weird, Hey, ten, Do you think the hero should

180
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 2: have taken the Hobsons pledge money to put the ad on.

181
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 1: The front page?

182
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah? I take your point about the front page. It's different,

183
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,400
Speaker 3: but having said that, it's still it's an ad. It's

184
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,360
Speaker 3: visibly an ad. It's not a story, it's not an editorial.

185
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,440
Speaker 3: Even it's by Hobson's pledge. You know what you're getting

186
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,080
Speaker 3: new Staland is it's assuming that there's this whole complacent

187
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,360
Speaker 3: group of people who just absorb what they see and

188
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 3: they believe it all. I mean, we're actually, and there

189
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 3: have been surveys of this, we're very suspicious of social media.

190
00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,400
Speaker 3: I think we can manage ourselves in this area.

191
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I reckon the front page is different, Patty.

192
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,559
Speaker 2: I reckon, you don't take the money from Hobbson's pledge,

193
00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,040
Speaker 2: You don't take the money from the ce to you.

194
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,160
Speaker 1: You just leave that to retailers or nothing at all.

195
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. I think if the duplice Allen was the

196
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 4: CEO of ended me or on the executive or on

197
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,599
Speaker 4: the board, you know, you guys wouldn't have done it

198
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,000
Speaker 4: again after what happened with the CTU. But I've got

199
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,560
Speaker 4: to say, is a lobby group not allowed to take

200
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 4: out an ad in a newspaper.

201
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,679
Speaker 3: In the newspaper not that's not not on the front page.

202
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,080
Speaker 3: I think that's I think that's that's that's a good point, Heather,

203
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,760
Speaker 3: But I am you know what, I relish the irony

204
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:03,199
Speaker 3: of T party. Marty's that the Hill was promoting misinformation.

205
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,800
Speaker 3: And this is from a group that, when the anti

206
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 3: smoking legislation was being rolled back, accused National of systemic genocide.

207
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:12,400
Speaker 1: Ah yeah, good point, Tim.

208
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,200
Speaker 2: I mean nobody needs any lessons on misinformation from the

209
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,520
Speaker 2: Maori Party. Guys, great to have you on, Thank you

210
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 2: very much. Patty Gower is on ICE. Part two is

211
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 2: tonight on three at seven o'clock. Help the guy out,

212
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,439
Speaker 2: as you heard, he's still unemployed. And Tim Wilson Maximum.

213
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 3: Institute for more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live

214
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,160
Speaker 3: to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or

215
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,280
Speaker 3: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio