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Speaker 1: I got the terms of reference for the independent inquiry

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Speaker 1: and to manage my health. Cyber debarkle Phase one we'll

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Speaker 1: look at the cause, the safeguards, the scale and where

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Speaker 1: the policy was followed. It's short and sharp. Two set

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Speaker 1: to be done by the end of April. Michael Webster's

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Speaker 1: the Privacy Commissioner and as well as Michael morning to

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Speaker 1: you morning wakee. Do you enter this with a sense

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Speaker 1: this has been a cock up and someone needs to pay.

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Speaker 2: What we need to find out is what are the

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Speaker 2: causes behind this, whether there were adequate to say that

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Speaker 2: security safe guards in place? I mean where I sit.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of talk about the potential value to

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Speaker 2: New Zealand of digital innovation away to deliver government services better,

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Speaker 2: a way for businesses to grow, but you need trust

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Speaker 2: and confidence from KIWIS to do that. So we've got

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Speaker 2: to find out why and we're going to make sure

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Speaker 2: the problems mean fixed so that it doesn't go wrong

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Speaker 2: again in future. Was heaping fatty times exactly?

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Speaker 1: Well, that was my question. I can't work out whether

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Speaker 1: these people are incompetent or they are just victims of

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Speaker 1: what really is just a cyber war out there on

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Speaker 1: a daily basis, everyone's getting hacked left, right and center.

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Speaker 2: So the cyber criminals are getting better. There's no one

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Speaker 2: to denying that. But what we need is a bit

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Speaker 2: of a kind of a carrot and stick. We need

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Speaker 2: to help organizations out their businesses to protect themselves better.

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Speaker 2: We need to encourage them to invest in hardening their

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Speaker 2: IT systems protecting against cyber criminals. And we also need

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Speaker 2: on the stick side, we need in the sentence, frankly say,

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Speaker 2: a financial penalty regime to punish those who are not

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Speaker 2: looking after our information well enough. They need to be

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Speaker 2: held to account.

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Speaker 1: Is this got wait because it was health material and

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Speaker 1: not my shopping that went missing?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, this is our most sensitive personal information. There are

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Speaker 2: keys out there who are actually feeling pretty devastated at

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Speaker 2: the moment because it could be their mental health records,

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Speaker 2: their sexual health records. There could even be medical conditions

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Speaker 2: they haven't even discussed with close family yet, that sort of.

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Speaker 1: Thing like do you want ry correct me if I'm wrong, Michael,

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Speaker 1: But privacy commissioners can't. All you can do is recommend.

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Speaker 1: Do you worry that you'll recommended nothing happens.

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Speaker 2: I am concerned about that. We can issue things called

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Speaker 2: compliance notices, which require agencies to take steps to improve

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Speaker 2: their systems, and we do go back and check that

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Speaker 2: they have carried out those actions. But unlike other privacy

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Speaker 2: regulators around the world, we don't have the ability to

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Speaker 2: seek financial penalties or fines for those who really don't

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Speaker 2: care and don't do enough to protect our personal information.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's good that short and shut will get you

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Speaker 1: on at the back end of but Michael appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Michael Webster, who's the Privacy Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.