1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: We told you earlier this week about in Australian school 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: which is taking a new approach to limiting kids' screen 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: time use. So what that thought is instead of outright 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: banning cell phones, you know, smartphones and stuff like that, 5 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: they are offering students from year four to year eight 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: age appropriate smartphones, so they call them wise phones and 7 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: this teaches the kids slowly how to use them safety. 8 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: And so we have the principle of Pimble Ladies College 9 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: Doctor Kate Hadwin. 10 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: Hey Kate, Hi Hannah, how are you very well? 11 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Thank you Kate. Is this basically you guys responding to 12 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: the recognition that these smartphones that we have in our 13 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: lives nowadays are incredibly addictive for kids. 14 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: Yes, it is. We are trying to reclaim childhood for 15 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: our young people. That's what we're focused on. 16 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: Right, And so the problem, as far as I can 17 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: see it is how do you hold the line right. 18 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: The kids want them, the parents feel pressure. This is 19 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: a compromise where the group acts together to say you 20 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: can have this, but you can't have the smartphone. 21 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. Peers are so important for young people, 22 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: particularly teenagers, and so if we can do something where 23 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: everybody's in, then we're much more likely to have a 24 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: good outcome. 25 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: So why did you decide to introduce something like a 26 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: wise phone, or like a partially dumb phone, rather than 27 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: just saying absolutely no phones until yet the age of sixteen. 28 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: I guess, first of all, Heather, it's a little bit 29 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: like learning to swim that when we have our children, 30 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: we don't throw them into the ocean. We teach them 31 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: slowly and take them with us on the journey. And 32 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 2: that's what I believe about the use of technology as well. 33 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: Technology is a wonderful enabler for so many things, but 34 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: young people need to be taught. We need to teach 35 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: them how to use phones wisely. And so that's why 36 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: we think this is a great approach because we can 37 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: allow them to do that. 38 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: And what are they able to have them in class? 39 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: Are they able to compare ands call them with the 40 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: phone sitting there? 41 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely not? 42 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: So when are they allowed to have them? 43 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: And look, they have them in their lockers. And really 44 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: part of the challenge, Heather, is when they take them home, 45 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: because it's so difficult for families, it's so so difficult, 46 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: and we know that our families are really struggling. And 47 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: we also know that social media acronyms, all the way 48 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: that social media is developed is done so that we 49 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: do have young people become addicted to their devices, and 50 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: that's a difficult thing to overcome as a parent. So 51 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: we're trying to work, or we are working with our 52 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: parents in tandem to come up with a solution that 53 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 2: works at school but also works at home. 54 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: Well, what are you worried about happening at home? 55 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: Oh? Well, young people use their technology and have opportunities 56 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: to sit there and scroll and scroll, and our parents 57 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 2: are saying to us, please help us, please. 58 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: Help these wise phones don't allow them, do. 59 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: They No, they don't know, and that's the beauty of it. 60 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: So they don't actually have they don't have apps on 61 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 2: them that allow them to do that. So in year four, 62 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: for example, they can make calls, send texts, they have 63 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: a clock, a calendar, maps, that's about it. When they 64 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: get into year five there's a camera, tap, payment, some 65 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: school related apps. So they don't actually even have access 66 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: to a chat group until they reach year seven. 67 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: And how old is that? 68 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: Way? We can do that our twelve. 69 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,119 Speaker 1: Okay, now have you t e and twelve? Right? So Kate. 70 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: Have you read Jonathan Hayate's book The Anxious Generation? 71 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: Certainly have? Yeah. Yeah. 72 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: One of the points that he makes in that and 73 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: look at his primary point, especially with the girls obviously, 74 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: is the addictiveness of and the boys the addictiveness of 75 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: the social media and the smartphone. But sub problem is 76 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: the fact that when they get onto these chat groups 77 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: and stuff, you can't control the bullying that's happening and 78 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: coming straight into the bedroom. That's still a problem, isn't it. 79 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: If these kids can text each other, call each other, 80 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: chat group each other, even at eleven and twelve, you've 81 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: still got a potential bullying problem, don't. 82 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: You, Yes, we do. But the incredible thing about the 83 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: Wise phone is that if that occurs, then we can 84 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: actually remove that particular chat app for a period of time, 85 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: which is an absolute game changer. 86 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: Like remotely you can take it off. 87 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: Well, we would sit with the families and with the 88 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: chill dren and talk about it, and just like if 89 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: you're at home and it was in any other circumstance 90 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: it was a technology related and your child was doing 91 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 2: the wrong thing, then they would lose the right to 92 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: have access to that yea. For through a period of time. 93 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: So again it's that training them that you know, yes, 94 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: if you do this, there will be consequences. So that's 95 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: one of the real beauties of this solution. Yeah. 96 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, So what happens then at sixteen year ten 97 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: when they finally get access to everything? Can they have 98 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: a smartphone? 99 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: Then? Of course yes, absolutely, and the y phone is 100 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: a smart phone. It's just that we've managed to control 101 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: the apps that they have access to, so they can 102 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: still have that hardware effectively. But it's just that they 103 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: have access to everything. 104 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: They can't get around us cake kids us smart. They 105 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: can't get around this and download stuff you don't know about. 106 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 2: Aren't they. I love the way they're smart and they 107 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: always challenge our thinking. I love that about our young people. No, 108 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 2: they can't. Now, what they can do is access social 109 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: media on their laptops if they choose to. But we're 110 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: trying to create point of friction, Heather, right, you know, 111 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: to make it a little bit more painful, a little 112 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: bit more annoying, because you know, we know research says 113 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: that if we can just give young people one to 114 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: three seconds of thinking time, the responses that they have 115 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: will be entirely different. So creating a bit more friction 116 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: for them we hope will lead to an outcome where 117 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: they learn, you know, where they learn how to use 118 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: these things wisely before they have access to them. 119 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: Kate Listen, thanks very much, really appreciated doctor Kate Hadwin, 120 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: Who's the principle of Pimble Ladies College. 121 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy, Allen Drive listen live to 122 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: news talks. 123 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 124 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.