1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald Business Editor at 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Large and welcome to this episode of Money Talks. This 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: is a podcast about money, but we're not going to 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: tell you how to get rich, and we're not going 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: to try and pick the next interest rate move. In 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: this series, I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders about 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: how money has shaped their lives and what they've learned 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: over the years. For today's podcast, I'm joined by publisher, 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: entrepreneur and business leader and founder of Sunshine Books, Dame 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Wendy pie Kyodo. Wendy, welcome to Money Talks. 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 12 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: I want to dive into the backstory of how you 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: got to where you are now, but just to bring 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: us up to speed. What's the folks of the business 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: right now? You know at new markets. I heard that 16 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: you were moving into China, and I'm sure publishing generally, 17 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: you're having to transform digitally. 18 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: Yes, we started the digital transformation about twenty five years ago, 19 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: right when people was still dial up. Of course it 20 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: was still a scratchy dial up and it wasn't even 21 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: really but I'd done well in America. I made a 22 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 2: lot of money in America. I built one hundred million 23 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 2: dollar company in America with a guy and I from 24 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: from one room, and we're very successful. And I sold 25 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: out just those rights, those particular rights for the American 26 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: Canadian rights, and because education is a very good business 27 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: in America. And I came home and thought, well, you 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: know what do I do? I was too young to 29 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 2: probably hang up the shingle, and I told a lot 30 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: of kids to read. So I thought, well, you know, 31 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: digital is the way to go. I saw kids playing 32 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: on the PlayStation. The first PlayStations were out, the first gaming, 33 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: which is pretty amateur when you look at it now, 34 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: how when you think of it as a promoted way. 35 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: So I built a building in Mount Wellington. Basically we 36 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: bought a team together from around the world. We put 37 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: to I thought, imagine if we could help kids learn 38 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: to read on a digital device. And so this was 39 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: really a journey we began on the digital. 40 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've sort of been ahead of that curve. 41 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: I was well ahead because I sort of thought it 42 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: woulded to be fabulous if you had a reading program. 43 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: We put a piece of white paper on the wall, 44 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: we put a team together and we said, let's make 45 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: it happen, you know, and I was amazed at what 46 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: five year olds could do. You know, we tested a 47 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: lot of kids looking at what they could do. And 48 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: again it was pretty primitive because in the sense that 49 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: we were using Flash, of course, which was a wonderful 50 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: device that Apple had developed. And later on, of course 51 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: they changed to HM well five and got rid of Apple. 52 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: We've got rid of all the Flash. And then I 53 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: went out to the world to sell it a dream 54 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: to the world, to teach the world to read for 55 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 2: fifty dollars, you know, that's really what my dream was. Yeah, 56 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: but of course people laughed at me, you know, people 57 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: said that can't be done. British Telecom said, you'll never 58 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: ever play, you know, a video on that. I wish 59 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 2: i'd had their business cards because. 60 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: Well, I'll come back to more of that, but I'd 61 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: like to jump right back, as we do in money talks, 62 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: just ask you maybe your first memories of having money 63 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: and do you remember, you know, when you might have 64 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: first held in your hand. 65 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: Oh yes, I think that. You know, cash is always king, 66 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: isn't it. Really, well, it was to a stage until 67 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: my last trip to China I realized there's no cash anymore. 68 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: No cash morning you have to have the weed chat. 69 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that it's sort of ownership is 70 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: really a helpful thing for you to own your own 71 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 2: house and to own things really and not this not 72 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: from a paranoia of awny things, but I think from 73 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: a business perspective, I think you have to live within 74 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: your means and you have to develop your strategies with money, 75 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: and money is money is a valuable asset, but of 76 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: course it only can only as good as it works 77 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: for you. Well, money sits under a mattress, it's no 78 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: good for you. 79 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: Looking back, looking back at through the book, really at 80 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: your early childhood, it was it sounds like it was 81 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: a fairly tough life on the farm in Western Australia, 82 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: but there wouldn't have been a lot of wouldn't have 83 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: been a lot of pocket money, And. 84 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: Sure there wasn't a lot of pocket money, but really 85 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: it was tough, but to torture resilience and then from 86 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: later on and it's really helped me because it has 87 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: been tough building a business internationally, building a business for example, 88 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: you know in Africa and places where you go into 89 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: the outback, to the real outback actually into a townships 90 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: and working with Mandela and people that we worked with 91 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: in South Africa when he came to power. But you know, 92 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: I think the thing is that it taught me resilience 93 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: and it taught me to survive. Really, you have to 94 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: be a survivor. I think all exporters and all pioneering 95 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: exporters know about that as well. 96 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the stories that struck me was 97 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: because we often ask about pocket money and the first 98 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: things you saved for, but it didn't sound like there 99 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: was any money involved. But you're getting your first bike 100 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: was a really big deal in your childhood, and yes 101 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: it was really big. 102 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: You know. We used to then paint it with enamel 103 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: and make sure it look like brand new, that sort 104 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: of thing. But then I think at that time, it 105 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: was really an interesting time in history. When you talk 106 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,559 Speaker 2: about you're talking about the late fifties and you're talking 107 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: about sixty late fifties, it was you're talking about really 108 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: a time. You know, I was born in forty three, 109 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: of course before the war ended, and but you're talking 110 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: about a time that really a lot of people didn't 111 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: have much money, but it wasn't. The reason I've written 112 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: the book too is because I really get rather tired 113 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: of people telling me, you know, I can't make it 114 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,239 Speaker 2: because I was you know, I was impoverished or whatever 115 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: I was, I rubbish. Just get out there and make 116 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: it happen. And I think that what I've proved as 117 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: you can. 118 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you did. You did get out there. 119 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 1: I mean you left home, you headed for Sydney, I guess. 120 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: And did you feel like you had a strong base 121 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: in your school and academic learning. Did you go out 122 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: with a vision for what you wanted to do. 123 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 2: I had a bit of a vision and I could 124 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: work hard and control the world. But that's okay, it's 125 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: in an operative term of controlling the world. But I 126 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: feel that, you know, hard work is never and really 127 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: nobody ows you are living. That's what we were brought 128 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: out on. We were brought up on the principal there 129 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 2: was so such a thing as a welfare system as 130 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: you were living or you know, and that really played 131 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 2: into during the COVID years. For example, you know, I 132 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: didn't apply for a grant from the government coffice. I 133 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: mean we didn't need it. I mean, we could survive. 134 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 2: I was surprised and how many people, how many business people, 135 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: of leading business people in this country, who actually supplied. 136 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: They couldn't get their application in quick enough for the 137 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: government trough, you know. I mean I think that what 138 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: you have to do is you have to learn to 139 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: survive within your own means of what you're doing. 140 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I read that you had some interest 141 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: in maybe being a journalist and tried to go for 142 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: that to start with. Wasn't to be, but then you 143 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: kind of ended up back in that world. 144 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: That's right, I just ended up first of all. It's basically, 145 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: you know, writing copy and being creative and ciking up 146 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: creative ideas because I'm a bit of a dream and 147 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: really from the best of times, you know, I dream 148 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: about a business opportunity and I often think about you know, 149 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 2: and when I approach any business opportunity, it's so I 150 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 2: always call it. It's either a war or climbing a mountain. 151 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 2: Often you're on so somebody says, where are you at 152 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 2: that stage? So I sit on the landing craft. Haven't 153 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 2: even reached the beach yet. You've got to climb up 154 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: the hill first. And that people are shooting at you 155 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: other opposition companies, which is quite a good strategy to 156 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: a degree. 157 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I mean, it sounds like, I mean, the 158 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: first part of your career sounds and I'm probably jumping here. 159 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: I should really ask you what it was that brought 160 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: you to New Zealand and how you ended up here. 161 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: I suppose you know, having grown up in Western Australia, 162 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: started a career in Sydney was a sort of a 163 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: part of the plan to leave Australia. 164 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: Now, it really wasn't part of the plan. It was 165 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: just that I flatted with a couple of girls and 166 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: you know, like you're normally flat and we fled on 167 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: the north shore of Sydney and one of them came 168 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: from New Zealand, and I thought, you know, I might 169 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: as well go and explore New Zealand. I really want 170 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: to travel wider afield. I met my husband and that 171 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: was the problem. 172 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: You see, you get married, so you basically settled down. 173 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,239 Speaker 2: That's what happened. 174 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you continued the career and you know, through 175 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: those years to the point where you got to running 176 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: the publishing side of things for I think it was 177 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: New Zealand News Group. 178 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: Right, So it was. 179 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: It was quite a successful career in its own right 180 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: to that point at a time when you probably had 181 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: to work pretty hard as a woman to bash through 182 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: some vi it. 183 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: Was successful in the corporate world, was very successful and 184 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: really in the book of course, so featured it, you know. 185 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: Actually it was in his own herald, published a couple 186 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: of articles and said what has she done? Done something right, 187 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: you know, And so it was. It was difficult. It 188 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: was interesting time. Remember it was a few years before 189 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: the stock market crash of all times and men. Everyone 190 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: talks about the two thousand and eight stop the stop 191 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: marker crash recently, but really that was a brutal crash 192 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: and that came as a crash of all times really 193 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: when you look at it in a retrospect and history 194 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 2: of New Zealand and the companies that lost their business 195 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: and everything, and so it was a tough you know. 196 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: It was a time when everyone was high flying. You'd 197 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: make a million and a ten minutes and another million 198 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: another ten minutes, you know what I mean. It was 199 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: a sort of one of those incredible times. 200 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting to me looking at how a newspaper 201 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: group was. I mean, I guess they had the printing presses, 202 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: but they had such a large publishing division that they 203 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: were doing children's books as a newspaper publisher. 204 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: Yes, well I first started to get into publishing a book. 205 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: Side was that, you know, I don't know whether you 206 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: know remember Never where Never were used to be a 207 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: great smoker. He to smoke about thirty five cigarettes day 208 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: or something. But he was a typical type of the 209 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: typical type of head of a newspaper group that you have, 210 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: you know, like a sort of like a sit there 211 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: and you know, the editor don't say what we don't know, 212 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: and that's sort of thing. Yeah, Never called me in 213 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: and said, you know, we had to start a book company. 214 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: We've got to start a book company because and you're 215 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: the one to do it, et cetera, et cetera. So 216 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: that's how I first got into publishing books. And it 217 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 2: was mainly things like columns that we would do, you know, 218 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: cooking columns and other things that we're doing, and mainly 219 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: our feature writers, particularly also from the Chroshier start, because 220 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: we owned the Cross Your Stara as well at the time, 221 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 2: and so basically we would put those together in a 222 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: book form and sell them and sell them through the newspaper. 223 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: Columnists would have a book, have. 224 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: A book out and sort of and then later on 225 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: I published, of course, I worked, you know, with Pat Booth, 226 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: and people are publishing the mister Asia Vhiles, they publish 227 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: Penguin published them, but we put them together. 228 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure were children's books in the mix at that point. 229 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: Were you interested? 230 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 2: Not really? I was sort of I started looking at 231 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: children's books in the sense of looking at all alternative 232 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: things because we it was you know, it wasn't terribly 233 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: lucrative of the division that I ran, and I always hate, 234 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: you know, on that corporate You know, when they do 235 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: those corporate family trees, you find a sort of a 236 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: shaky line in a business and it's a sort of 237 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: like a cross line that looks like it's going to 238 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 2: fall off any moment. So you know, I wasn't going 239 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: to allow the directors to come and say we'll get 240 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: rid of that division to right that they tend to do. 241 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: You know, we're restructuring today. Well, you know, nothing changes. 242 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 2: We're restructuring, and as you all know that, it's a 243 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: massive thing, just like the media industry now. Yeah, well, 244 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: and it's been a massive restructing. 245 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: Constant changing too more. I mean, you probably had one 246 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: of the biggest shocks though of all, you know, Briley 247 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: Group Corporate takeover merchants. They came in and just took 248 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: the whole thing over and restructured it overnight. 249 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 2: Right. But in fairness to the BRIDI group, you know, 250 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 2: I was one of the chosen people who they really 251 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: trained and it's really it really helped me. I mean, 252 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: Bryce Hancocks was an interesting guy. You know. He used 253 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 2: to go in and say, it's very easy to take 254 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 2: over companies today, and you just go in and all 255 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: the directors are asleep in the corner and just take them, 256 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It was sort of an 257 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 2: I spent many times having a chat to him on 258 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 2: the private Briley plane at the airport, which was quite 259 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 2: a big thing because you know, when you were sort 260 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: of a minion in the in the corporate to be 261 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: invited on the thing. And really they were taking over companies, 262 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 2: looking at mergers and taking over at that time, and 263 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 2: if you looked at history, it was an incredible amount 264 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 2: of mergers and things they took over. And so when 265 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 2: they really looked at you know, it was a difficult 266 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: job when I was given the job of the Weekly 267 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: because basically the Weekly had been the cash cow for 268 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: the ordul start that the evening newspapers were dying dying 269 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: around the world as well, and it had been a 270 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: long time, and the weekly was really the cash cow 271 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: that they used to drag the money from because it 272 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: was an advertising cow. But then of course suddenly everything changed. 273 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: There was you know, Roger brought out the Metro, There 274 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: was a whole lot of magazines coming out. There was 275 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: glossy paper. We were on newsprint. Can you believe half 276 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 2: the advertisements of three Dimensional as they were badly printed. 277 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: And so I was given that job to restructure it, 278 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: which is quite difficult. 279 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: So you're right in the thick of it. But then 280 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: at some point, and this might be the best thing 281 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: that ever happened in your career, you get made redundant. 282 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think the man who fired me have often 283 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: said that, he said, I saw the vision. 284 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: All right, he says that now, which is probably feel like. 285 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: Rubbish. Yeah, it was a good thing. It's sometimes sometimes 286 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 2: in life, you know, we we have periods of our 287 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: life where we go through in business looking at business 288 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 2: deals and reflecting on business deals you've done, and what 289 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: you should have done and what you shouldn't have done, 290 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 2: and things like that, and it's really interesting, you know, 291 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: I think that and the time, it just probably gave 292 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 2: me a coal shower, as I call it. It was 293 00:12:58,600 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: a long coal shower. 294 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: Easy. Yeah, it's a big, big choice you have to 295 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: make though at that stage of life, to get made redundant. 296 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: You know, you could go and see the recruitment people 297 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: and find another corporate job, but you decided to back 298 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: yourself and start your own business. Can you tell me 299 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: a little bit about the thinking behind that and what 300 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: sort of gave you the confidence to have a go? 301 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: Well, I thought of you know, it really comes back 302 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: to this some ip and owning everything I own now 303 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: and what you have is that I just decided that 304 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 2: no bastard would ever walk me off the place, no 305 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 2: bustard whatever. And it excuse me swearing, but would never 306 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 2: take me off the place. But you know, I'd spend 307 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: twenty one years building up companies. I'd open the American market. 308 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 2: I pioneered the development of education into the American market. 309 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: There's a huge there was a huge opportunity of huge 310 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: things that I did, and I thought, you know, they 311 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 2: don't appreciate and really a lot of job offers came 312 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: in from marketing manager or you know, I could do 313 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: that a production manager, marketing manager, et cetera, et cetera, 314 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 2: and you know, to pay the wages, the first wages. 315 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: I work for Uncle Rupert, you know, I mean Uncle 316 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: Rupert's always available. Probably well I'm probably not now he's 317 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 2: ninety three or something. But what I'm saying is that 318 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 2: I worked for I worked for Rupert the Murdoch Group, 319 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 2: you know, developing a strategy as well, just for a while, 320 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: because that paid the wages. You know, you've got to 321 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: have cash to pay wages for the couple of stuff 322 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 2: that I bought with me. 323 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: But you could see potential for this line of educational publishing, 324 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: I guess, even though you know in New Zealand you've 325 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: got the school journals and it's a bit more locked 326 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: up here. But you could see that there was a 327 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: role for the private sector in that. 328 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: Well, all the contacts i'd made before came to me. 329 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: The world came to me literally, I mean literally, the 330 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: world just phoned me and said and it was only phone, 331 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: of course, we were just the Internet was just hadn't 332 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: even been developed totally. But of course see you know 333 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: fax machines or in operation, that was all and you know, 334 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: they phoned and said what are you going to do? 335 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you already had you must have already had 336 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: good contacts with I had with the children right children's 337 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: writers and people who. 338 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: I had the contacts, and all the writers and all 339 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: the people came to me. But you know, the company 340 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: then tried you to destroy me. On New Year's Eve, 341 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 2: they on Christmas Eve, they delivered a thing you know 342 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: that you can't publish. You know, I didn't have a 343 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: clause in any contract or anything. In those days, you 344 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 2: didn't have contracts that said you know, you can't do 345 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 2: this or you can't do that, you know that sort 346 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: of thing. And they came at me and said that 347 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: you know, you can't publish books. Well, I thought that 348 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: was ridiculous. So I set up what we call the 349 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: subterfuge of a two mirror way, you know, which I 350 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 2: think is good for business. Really, you have a suburban 351 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: lawyer and then you have the top guy in town recording, 352 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: and they don't know because they think it's a suburban 353 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: lawyer writing the letters when you're fighting, and it was 354 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 2: pretty pretty scary. I mean, at that time they were 355 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 2: about an eighty million dollar organization totally I'm talking about 356 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: with everything you know you're fighting them, you know, from 357 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 2: the bench from a picture. 358 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: But they hadn't put it out of contract that they had. 359 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: Basically, they never had any contract. They never had lead 360 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: to stand on. But we actually proved a case that 361 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 2: you know, it was an American case, interesting enough, that 362 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: was proved that refrigerator is a refrigerator. It looks a 363 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: shape of refrigerator. A book is a book, and no 364 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: one can copyright the actual shape that they can cooperate 365 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 2: in an unusual shape, but the normal rectangular shape. All 366 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: the thing was I had actually developed that anyway with children. 367 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: Well that's right, you'd brought that style yourself. 368 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 2: Rubbish, right, so anyway, but never mind. And they also 369 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 2: contacted all the people I hadn't dealt with and told them, 370 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: you know, they wouldn't deal with them a probably, And 371 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: all the people write back to me and said, what 372 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: a load of rubbish, which telling me to get lost. 373 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 2: So that's good. 374 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: Look, you know, coming through the publishing side, I know 375 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: you've got good writers and everything involved, but is there 376 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: a sense that you have a sort of the idea 377 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: that you've got to feel for what kids would like 378 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: and that sort of stuff. 379 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: Feeling? Yeah, where do you think that comes from from yourself, 380 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: for that's right, and that's sort of a it's a 381 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 2: gut feeling of what works. And now, of course, after 382 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: forty years of working the markets, I have a gut 383 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 2: feeling I know what actually works in different markets and 384 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: and what actually can develop in a market working very 385 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: close with distributors on the ground and now case I 386 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 2: have a company in my own company in Australia, but 387 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: distributors on the ground and people who are developing content 388 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 2: and developing curriculum. I only wish that you know, New 389 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 2: Zealand wouldn't get to really nervous about me. I think, 390 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 2: you know, Ministry of Education is always nervous about me 391 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 2: because they always think I'm taking over or something which 392 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 2: is rubbish. 393 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: Well, there is a lot of I mean, the way 394 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: the systems run here, it's quite different compared to America, 395 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: for example. 396 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: Compeople with Australia compared with everywhere in the world except 397 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: Russia and Cuba. I think, I think you know, it's 398 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 2: the same. But it's quite sad really because you know, 399 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: we're a very small country and all I dream of 400 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 2: is that we all should work together to achieve, particularly 401 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 2: the output for Mara and Pacific Onland children. We can't 402 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 2: actually allow all of these children not to learn to read, 403 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: and we need help from everybody, and we need to 404 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: sit down. And it doesn't you know, just because I'm 405 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 2: a commercial organization, I say, I don't see. You know, 406 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 2: I give a lot of voluntary time and I give 407 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 2: a lot of things away as well. But you know, 408 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 2: what's the hand up? Hang up? But there seems to 409 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 2: still be a hang up. 410 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's tough, I guess, you know, because it's understanding, 411 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: Like really, to get kids to read, they have to 412 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: want to something is to appeal with the content and 413 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: the book or whatever they've got on screen. It's got 414 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: to be something. 415 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: And you've got to move with the times too, you know, 416 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: you've got to modernize, you've got to learn a new 417 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: generation of kids coming through different kids. We learn a lot. 418 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 2: And that's the project I'm working on at the moment. 419 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 2: It's a really interesting project. 420 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: Can you talk about it or yeah, sure, sure. 421 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: You know, I want to. I'm really really interested in 422 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 2: the power of the gaming industry. I think gaming is 423 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 2: a really interesting thing. It seems to be occupying a 424 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 2: lot of people, children and a lot of effort. So 425 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 2: what my dream is to have basically really good educational games, 426 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 2: not just educational games that will deliver not just something 427 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 2: about a giraffe running around the letter G on the 428 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 2: screen or something not like that, not like a sysame 429 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 2: streets stream. It's fine, but it's a fun thing, you know, 430 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: with children running around, and even ABC mouse, you know, 431 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: a Apple is the same sort of thing. What I'm 432 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: doing is I want to create something that will be deliverable. 433 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: In other words, that every child, particularly children who have difficulty, 434 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 2: particularly children who are dyslexic. Imagine if we can use 435 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 2: the gaming for the gaming magic and we can marry 436 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 2: that with solid educational And that's what I'm working on 437 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 2: at the moment with TL Education. And they're about a 438 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: four point four billion. I love to say those numbers. 439 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 2: It's like Fonterra, isn't it. But you know, they partner 440 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 2: with me and we're working and they see the dream too, 441 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 2: and they are gaming a top gaming company in the 442 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 2: world actually, and so I'm working with them on That's 443 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: what I was doing in China a couple of weeks ago. 444 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: So I don't know whether I'll pull it off, but 445 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: who knows. 446 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: That's where to go. I mean, it's obviously if you 447 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: can get kids. It's that thing of passing the next level. 448 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 2: If you can get the most the bag of a car. 449 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 2: You know, you kids say are we there yet? Are 450 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 2: we there yet? They can be using them bof phone 451 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 2: and learning to read at the same time. How's that 452 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 2: thinking out looking out the window? You know what kids 453 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 2: are like? Are we there yet? Yeah? 454 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: I want to come back to some bigger thoughts about 455 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: fixing some aspects of New Zealand and things. But just 456 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: we've got a few we have a few quick fire 457 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: questions that we like to run through, and one of 458 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: them is what the poorest you ever have been? 459 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: Is? 460 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: Do you think any stage in your life, you know, 461 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: what stage in your life would you have been? 462 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: I think when you first marry you're always like that. 463 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: You know, you're paying your house off, you're getting the 464 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 2: bolt meat or something fitted in your secondhand fridge that 465 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: goes blank in your washing machine, washing machine breaks down, 466 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: you know, I think that, Yeah, we just live within 467 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 2: our means, but you know, and so it's a sort 468 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: of a tough time. It's always a tough time in 469 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 2: the sense that you see other people, you know, doing things, 470 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: and you know, painting houses. I was good at painting 471 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: houses because I'm left handed and I was born left hand. 472 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 2: I was basically left handed, but I had to eat 473 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 2: my right because in school they force you to left hand. 474 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: So I'm ambidexterous. So it's very handy, and you know, 475 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 2: I've got six foot each with my arms. It's very 476 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: handy when you're painting the outside of a house because 477 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: you can just switch your brush over and just keep 478 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 2: on painting. You know, I painted a lot of houses 479 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 2: as well. 480 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: Were you a good, good, good budgeter and all that 481 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: sort of stuff, or were you're a spender. 482 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: When you have to live within your means. I always 483 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 2: believe that you have to live within your means. I 484 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: think that people can compromise, so you don't you don't 485 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 2: necessarily have to, you know, have to live extravagantly or anything. 486 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 2: I think that you know, well, I'm a good cook 487 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 2: as well, so probably that's probably helps. 488 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. I mean the other question we have as 489 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: along those lines of what would be the most indulgent 490 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: purchase you've ever made, or what are the things that 491 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: you like to splash. 492 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 2: I think the first was a sports car because I 493 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 2: wanted a fast so I like fast cars really. But 494 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 2: the trouble is a Lamborghini or for the problem is 495 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: they're too low to the ground. Now I can't climb 496 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: into those. I need something a bit higher. But you know, 497 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: I quite like Sabek she SAB's gone off the market now. 498 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 2: But they were quite fun. You know, they were sports cars, 499 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 2: and it was a sports car that I bought. And 500 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 2: other things emeralds, beautiful pearls that emeralds that took six 501 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: months to find in South America. You know, there's a 502 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: few indulgent things that I have done, well, a few 503 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 2: naughty things. There are points of racehorses and racehorses. That's 504 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 2: one of my favors. 505 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: I was talking to Rod Jerke as well, and he 506 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 1: couldn't think of anything, and then he said, oh, and 507 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: the race horses, because obviously they cost a bit of 508 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: money and a lot of and it's it's anyone who's 509 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: got the moys is It is a bit of a 510 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: money trap. While we're on the money topic, I asked 511 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: that author Emily Perkins about this. Do you have a 512 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: favorite book or any any favorite sort of writers or 513 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: advice and things on money? But you know that you 514 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: would you would look to or that you that influenced 515 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: you necessarily. 516 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 2: On money, my favorite books at Water bog his zimbiographies. 517 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 2: I'm always fascinated how somebody has become what they've done, 518 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: so there's life they do in life, and how they 519 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 2: achieve things and everything else. On money, I'm always interested 520 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: in new developments, particularly my husband and I have a 521 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: large portfolio. We invest in things like mainly in the 522 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 2: medical field and the new development of cancer drugs and 523 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: other things, particularly the American market. I'm very fond of 524 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 2: the American market, investing in that because it does give 525 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 2: you a good return. And also we look at I'm 526 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 2: really interested obviously in AI now and what's happening with 527 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 2: AI and the development of AI as well. But in 528 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: the medical field there's a lot of new advances which 529 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 2: are fantastic because we are on the verge of discovery 530 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 2: of many things and they are fantastic. You can and 531 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 2: also minerals as well. I love minerals. Actually I love minerals. 532 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 2: I love Old Shane and digging up the ground with 533 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 2: his minerals or whatever he's going to do. But I'm 534 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: not sure there's two billion dollars worth of gold in 535 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 2: the South Island all. 536 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: Dollars century, didn't they But yeah, so I guess you're 537 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: investing in areas where you actually find some interest. You know, 538 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: there's something interesting. 539 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's sort of interesting because you know, you can 540 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: buy shares at a few cents and they can become you know. 541 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: But you know, I'm one one of the original investors 542 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 2: in Apple, for example, and when we've bought the first 543 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 2: Apple for five dollars, the sharebroker who remained nameless in 544 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 2: Auckland said, what are you buying those four? You're not 545 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: going to do anything with Apple? Right? You know? Well 546 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 2: famous last words, isn't it. We're a large shareholder and Apple, 547 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 2: but you know, and of course it never paid a 548 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: dividend for a long time. It's not the dividend we're 549 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 2: looking at. It's mainly the growth of the of the 550 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: share portfolio. In the sense when you're looking at an 551 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: investment portfolio, you've really got to look at you know, 552 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: unless you're trading. If you're trading shares, it's different. But 553 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 2: if you're looking at the longer term, so medical shares, 554 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 2: mineral shares, and also technology shares. 555 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, the things I like to ask in it because 556 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, obviously you've done well and the money. You know, 557 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: you keep earning money and investing in things. But is it, 558 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, what drives you? 559 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 2: Is it? 560 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: Is it the money so much? Or is there to 561 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: buy product of sort of success and other goals. 562 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 2: It's a challenge of the hunt. Really, it's a challenge 563 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 2: of the hunt. I think that, you know, I like 564 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 2: to think I'm developing a new product that will benefit 565 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 2: a lot of people. None of my product is very ethical, 566 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: and I feel it's ethical as well. And I also 567 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: help a lot of people as well. But I think that, 568 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 2: you know, there's nothing wrong with making money out of 569 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 2: helping people. People have this thing about you know, what's 570 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: wrong with you know. I mean, you've got to help, 571 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 2: but you've got to put something back into the community 572 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: as well. And I do that through my through my 573 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 2: association and my things that I'm associated with, my charities 574 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 2: and things. But I think also it's the challenge of 575 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 2: the hunt. Really, it's the fun where you pitch yourself 576 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 2: against the giants. And if you think about the major 577 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 2: publishing houses of the world have all now been purchased 578 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 2: by equity. The equity people are really interested in education, 579 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 2: they love education. The reason they love it is because 580 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 2: under the if we tomorrow morning had a recession, the 581 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: two things that the government never cuts out, apart from 582 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 2: crime and punishment or something they can't the health and education. 583 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: They are the two things that they fund. They might miss, 584 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: you know, you might have to go put up with 585 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 2: old potholes for about another two months or something, do 586 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? But health and education. And 587 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 2: even looking at the budget this year, if you looked 588 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 2: at the budget, and you looked at the budget in Australia, 589 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 2: you looked at the budget, you know, even if we'll 590 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 2: have a new president hopew I don't know whether we 591 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 2: will have old presidents in America, one of the budgets, 592 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: the budgets, even though the Americans say something different this morning, 593 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 2: the budgets will still say fairly static in education and 594 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: education is a key factor that most countries invest in 595 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: quite heavily. Governments so and they also pay their bills, 596 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: which is quite a big thing too. You know, like 597 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 2: if you looked at if you looked at some of 598 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 2: the corporates who have earned New Zealand, particularly at the moment, 599 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 2: or any corporates who have suffered some equity problems. You 600 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 2: look at the ratio of how many days are waiting 601 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 2: for payments, you understand, well, you don't have that in 602 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 2: education because governments pay bills and so you know, unless 603 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 2: the government go maybe France will go to the wall. 604 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is that you know currently, that's 605 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 2: why the equity guys it's a good return, and it's 606 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: in some ways it's a safe thing, you know, like 607 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: it's some in some ways if you looked at a portfolio. 608 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: You know, I often think of a board of directors 609 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: looking at a portfolio and thinking what are we going 610 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: to invest in next? And you know when people say 611 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 2: it's education, you know, oh my grandchildren, Oh very good. 612 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: You know, people feel good about education where they don't 613 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: feel good about probably products that may be some new 614 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: thing that someone's developing. So I think it's a safe bet. 615 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it must have made I mean, you sold the 616 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: US business years ago. 617 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 2: Only the rights to write, Yeah. 618 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: The right, but you know you must have had it 619 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: must be attractive to other equity groups. You do you 620 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: have to say offend. 621 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 2: It's sort of as I don't really find people because 622 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 2: most people don't know what I do. I don't think 623 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: I think, I think it's the crazy lady who should 624 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: be in a retirement release something they don't know what 625 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 2: to do. But yeah, it's just the huge amount of 626 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: assets we have, you know, the property in publishing houses. 627 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 2: It's not really it's not really the revenue that you're 628 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 2: earning today. It's really the backlist and what you what 629 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 2: you ownly the value and that's a huge value because 630 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 2: you can You've seen that with lots of MGM, Ted 631 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 2: Turner buying all the pacts of the film. You've seen 632 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: that at many times if you looked at if you 633 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 2: looked at equity, you look at what the backlist can create. 634 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: So therefore, in the sense of when you look at it, 635 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: you can repackage it, you can redesign it. We're repackaging 636 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: something for China at the moment there was published thirty 637 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: six years ago. You so it never loses its ability 638 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 2: to be able to generate more income without a huge investment. 639 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: So in other words, if you have a list of 640 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: product and you can repackage that product for a minimum cost, 641 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: you don't have to reinvent the wheel. And now with 642 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: digital and now the new developments were digital and the 643 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 2: new things there's new opportunities. 644 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've never felt like, you know, cashing out and 645 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: stepping back. 646 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: But if I feel but you know, I've got a 647 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: lot of champagne, so I don't have to worry too much. 648 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: I guess that's the question. 649 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: Is I enjoin what they're doing? Yeah, I'm enjoying what 650 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: I'm doing. I think sometimes you get a bit tired. 651 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 2: And my husband's in his mid eighties. Now you get 652 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: a bit tired. But really, you know, I think that 653 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 2: what do you need? You know, I don't sort of need. 654 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: I don't need some interviewer to go on and have 655 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: famous houses of New Zealand three thousand bedrooms or something. 656 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: You know, I'm not really you know, I've got a 657 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: lovely apartment in New York. I've got an apartment in London. 658 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: I've got lots of race horses. I wish they'd win. 659 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 2: But you know, what else do you need? You can 660 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: only eat so much in a day anyway, and I 661 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 2: work with wonderful friends around the world. 662 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: Sure. Just to finish up on a couple of bigger questions, 663 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: one of them is when you look back at it 664 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: and you touched on it earlier, your background not a 665 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: lot of money, you know, and really real humble beginnings. 666 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: What do you think it is that makes the big 667 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: difference in terms of success, in terms of why some 668 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: people get stuck in a poverty trap and some people 669 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: get out and escape. Is this something that you think 670 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: is a sort of a defining characteristic. 671 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: I think resilience. You know, people have tried to eliminate me, 672 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 2: people have tried to lock me up almost you just 673 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: have to keep going. You know, it's pretty hard sometimes 674 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: you do. I think if you learn as a child 675 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: that you know, basically you learn sort of solid values, 676 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 2: and I think you have to learn values that you know, 677 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: you don't go through life cheating people. You look at 678 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 2: things that are responsible in the way you develop your property, 679 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 2: the way I develop because you know, one of the 680 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 2: difficulties is that I suppose if I talked about a difficulty, 681 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 2: is it all of my staff have been with me 682 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 2: so long? I mean, you know, who's got an art 683 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: director fifty years celebrated fifty years the other day. My 684 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 2: secretary is forty eight years. I mean we're talking about 685 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 2: people my time company. Wow, of all these people, of course, 686 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 2: and you know, so maybe it'll have to be the 687 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 2: Sunshine retirement village. Maybe I'll take y Ryman on at 688 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: their own job. 689 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I don't know if you've ever thought 690 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: about politics, But one question I'd like to ask really 691 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: is if we could make your prime Minister for the 692 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: day and give you a chance to change some policy. 693 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: Would there be a big policy or a big change 694 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: you'd make to try and solve some of the social 695 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: inequality problems that are out there. What would be the 696 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: number one for you? 697 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 2: I need to find it looking at a practical way 698 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 2: and take one example. You know, we talk about children 699 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: not going to school, which is tragic at the moment, 700 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 2: and I worked a lot in Northland on some charity 701 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: projects over the last five years. It's no use just 702 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 2: sending a notice to people. I'm going to find you 703 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 2: if you don't bring your child to school. You know, 704 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 2: I would tend to really really work with the EWE, 705 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: and I think in this country we need to work 706 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,719 Speaker 2: together to solve the issue. We don't need to have 707 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: you know I'm going to do this and you're going 708 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:06,959 Speaker 2: to do that, do you know? I mean really, at 709 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 2: the end of the day, if we work together to 710 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: solve the issue, I believe we could come up with 711 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 2: a solution, and a solution maybe is And I've looked 712 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 2: at this Northern project quite a lot. You know, what 713 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 2: brings the kids to school? You know, maybe we need 714 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 2: a minibus to pick these kids up from school, but 715 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 2: we do need we do need wonderful Mari people to 716 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: go to those families. If it's a Mari family or 717 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 2: if it's a European family, we can work with Europeans 718 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 2: to go to those and to find really what the 719 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 2: issues are and really work with those children and really 720 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 2: make sure those kids come to school. Once we get 721 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 2: them to school, we're fine, you know, we can do 722 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: something with them. But it really just stresses me to 723 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 2: have children at even an Odho college. You know, fifteen 724 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 2: sixteen year old boys who can't read. This is terrible, 725 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 2: This is absolutely terrible. What are they going to do? 726 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 2: What do you do with a nine year old ram 727 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 2: Raider or ten year old shelter ram rais What you 728 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 2: do with that? That is terrible? You know, it's not 729 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 2: just it's a social issue as well that we have 730 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 2: to look at and we can't just leave it to 731 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 2: everyone else. We've actually got to say, how is that 732 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 2: I know that I've tried to work and wrote a 733 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 2: room with the Murray people. I know sometimes they say, 734 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 2: you know this parkiher Australian. Helen Clark used to say, 735 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 2: she's an Australian. We can put up with her. She 736 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 2: brags too much. But you know what I'm saying. I 737 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 2: work with Hellen a lot. But you know, I think 738 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 2: that we need to look at these solutions. And it's 739 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: not easy. By the way, this is not easy. But 740 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 2: you can't just make jargon. You know. I hate jargon, 741 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 2: you know, I just I just need to say. It's 742 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: like people contact me and say we're doing a deep 743 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 2: dive and I say, oh, I hope you're giving the 744 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 2: snork will be it? We tend to have all these 745 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 2: jargon things. What actually do they mean? I mean, what 746 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 2: does it mean? You know? How are you going to 747 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,239 Speaker 2: svolve a particular problem? A lot of these problems are 748 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 2: quite simple to solve, but and they ask are supposed 749 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: complex from a family point of view. But we do 750 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 2: need to look you know. I felt so sad yesterday 751 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 2: last night. I felt really sad. Our boots to the 752 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: office today reading about how many families have to turn 753 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 2: electricity off. Electricity that was a really really amazing article 754 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 2: in the Herald and I read it last night and 755 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 2: I felt so sad. Here we are as a nation 756 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: where we have to have children to go to a 757 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 2: swimming complex so they can have a hot shower, and 758 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 2: some families are doing without power for like three weeks 759 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 2: or something. You know, that's just not good enough? Is it? 760 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 2: In a country like ours? That's not good enough? And 761 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 2: that's not just a matter of money. That's a matter 762 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 2: of looking at the issues are and saying how we're 763 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: going to solve it. 764 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, well, look, just finally when the I know 765 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: we touched on it earlier, but what's on the immediate 766 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: horizon for the publishing group? 767 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 2: Okay, well, we're working on obviously just working on the 768 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: famous you know, decodable readers, you know, which we have 769 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 2: to godable readers which children can decode. And looking at 770 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 2: the way how we teach and structured literacy, the way 771 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 2: we teach in that way, and we'd develop that with 772 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 2: professors and other people around the world. Develop we've got 773 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 2: the best structured literacy program. People haven't would it? They 774 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: need to buy it now anyway, getting a commercial but 775 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 2: that the situation is it delivers an outcome and also 776 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 2: looking at really my dream will marry education and gaming 777 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 2: together to create one of the great games for all 778 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 2: children of the world who are struggling with reading. Can 779 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 2: you imagine every four and five year old and six 780 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 2: year old and that'll probably be a wonderful footprint. Will 781 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 2: I achieve it? I'm not sure. The third partner is 782 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 2: out there, the third partner of Some people are interested, 783 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 2: but the big guys have said, you'll never achieve it, Wendy, 784 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 2: because nobody that motivates me more than anything. No one 785 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 2: has ever done this in the world before, so you 786 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 2: won't do it right. So actually that motivates me more 787 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 2: when people say that. And also working with China as 788 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 2: well in some of the projects I'm working. I love 789 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 2: the Chinese and the Asian market is fantastic. 790 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like there's no slowing down. Thank you 791 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: very much for talking to us. Cheers, Wendy Pie. Thank 792 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: you thanks for listening to this episode of Money. If 793 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: you want to get in touch, drop me a line 794 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: at Liam dot Dan at ZIBM dot co dot NZID 795 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: and you can read more from me at inzidherld dot 796 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: co dot MZID. Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills and 797 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: sound engineer Liann McDonald follow Money Talks on iHeartRadio or 798 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, with new episodes available every Thursday.