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Speaker 1: US says it's reviewing the orchest security pack between itself,

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Speaker 1: the UK and Australia, all because it wants to make

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Speaker 1: sure the pact aligns with Trump's quote America First Agenda.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean for US, Helen Clark. Of course

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Speaker 1: we are positioning on pillar two. Helen Clark, former Prime Minister,

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Speaker 1: is with us this morning. Good morning, Good morning, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: Good to have you with me. Do you think this

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Speaker 1: is actually he will Trump, that is, will review this

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Speaker 1: and change anything.

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Speaker 2: Well he might, Ryan. You see, President Trump has ditched

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Speaker 2: a lot of what President Biden did and he will

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Speaker 2: be looking at the Orcas arrangement with Australia and the

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Speaker 2: United Kingdom as a Biden initiative. So that makes it

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Speaker 2: very vulnerable. Also to note that the Australian Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: and the British Prime Minister who formulated this deal are

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Speaker 2: both long gone as well, Scott Morrison Australia and Boris Johnson.

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Speaker 2: So it's a new scene all round, and the United

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Speaker 2: States at the moment is quite unpredictable. Take for example, Australia,

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Speaker 2: like New Zealand, UK and a couple of others have

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Speaker 2: put these sanctions on the extremist ministers in the Israeli government,

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Speaker 2: and the US has come out and criticize that. So

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Speaker 2: it may be sort of formulating a line which says, well,

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Speaker 2: we don't want to do business with you anymore Australia

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Speaker 2: in the UK on this because we don't like what

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Speaker 2: you've done on that. So it's very unpredictable.

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Speaker 1: Does this mean that you might end up actually agreeing

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Speaker 1: with one of Trump's positions?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've never thought that Aucus was a sensible thing

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Speaker 2: for New Zealand to have anything to do with, because

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Speaker 2: I have a view we need to keep a much

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Speaker 2: more carefully balanced foreign policy. We have not been quote

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Speaker 2: an ally of the United States in decades since the

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Speaker 2: breach over nuclear weapons, and I don't see the advantage

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Speaker 2: of trying to get that status back. We've made our

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Speaker 2: own luck in the world, and quite successfully. This pillar

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Speaker 2: two would just be really dragging you back into an

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Speaker 2: orbit that you don't want to be in.

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Speaker 1: Should the President change, which will happen at some stage,

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Speaker 1: your view on whether we should be an ally of

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Speaker 1: America or not wouldn't change.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. Look, we need to be a

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Speaker 2: friend of America, even in its troubled state. At the moment,

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Speaker 2: it has been a great democracy. I hope it continues

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Speaker 2: to be a great democracy. We've got a lot in common,

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Speaker 2: we do good business for the Americans, we share a

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Speaker 2: lot of values. Or have the moment that's a bit

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Speaker 2: unprotectable as well. But I would not want to see

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Speaker 2: us back in the position when New Zealand is expected

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Speaker 2: to spend a whole lot more money on defense, expected

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Speaker 2: to follow the US into whatever its strategic adventures. And

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Speaker 2: I'm old enough to remember the Vietnam War in New

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Speaker 2: Zealand going into that for not good reason at all,

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Speaker 2: and limping out the other end with Kiwis who died

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Speaker 2: on the battlefield for no good reason. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to see us ever in that position.

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Speaker 1: Hell In Clark form a Prime Minister, appreciate your time

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Speaker 1: this morning. It is sixteen after five year on news

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Speaker 1: talk said be speaking of spending more on defense. The

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Speaker 1: US is pushing for, particularly for Australia and for the

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Speaker 1: UK to up there defense spending, and both of them

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Speaker 1: are but they want you to get to three percent

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Speaker 1: of GDP. You know, we just got to two. I

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Speaker 1: said this the other day, and that NATO's asking for

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Speaker 1: five from its members. Thank god we're not a NATO.

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Speaker 1: I mean, imagine how much we would have to be spending.

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Speaker 1: But the UK's agreed to go to two point five

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Speaker 1: by twenty twenty eight, the US wants it to go

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Speaker 1: to three. Australia says it will lift to not to

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Speaker 1: the three and a half percent of the US wants.

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Speaker 1: So basically, the UK and Australia not doing what the

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Speaker 1: US wants on spending. How does that factor into orcus

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Speaker 1: You can imagine what Trump's going to do with this.

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Speaker 1: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talk sat BE from five am weekdays, or

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