Speaker 1: Kiyota.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
Speaker 2: daily podcast.
Speaker 1: Presented by the New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 2: From humble beginnings to a rising star in the National Party,
Speaker 2: James Meagher's journey to the Beehive has been rapid, to
Speaker 2: say the least. In just two years, he's gone from
Speaker 2: delivering his maiden speech to becoming a Minister of the Crown,
Speaker 2: tackling portfolios of youth hunting and Fishing and the newly
Speaker 2: established South Island Portfolio.
Speaker 1: So how do we make sure every.
Speaker 2: Young person in New Zealand gets the best possible start
Speaker 2: in life? And what does it actually mean to be
Speaker 2: Minister for the South Island Today? On the Front Page,
Speaker 2: James Meagher joins us to discuss what the trajectory from
Speaker 2: party staffer to minister has been like and what the
Speaker 2: future holds.
Speaker 1: For the kid from Timorrout.
Speaker 2: James, A couple of years since your maiden speech.
Speaker 1: From what I remember, you got some pretty good reactions
Speaker 1: from it. Were you surprised by that.
Speaker 3: A little bit?
Speaker 4: I think everyone always pays attention to the first maiden
Speaker 4: speech because it's you know, it's the opening of Parliament.
Speaker 3: But I didn't quite expect the reaction.
Speaker 4: To my particular speech, so it was it was very
Speaker 4: company to know that people out there were watching and
Speaker 4: listening and send some really kind feedback.
Speaker 3: It's really great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this line stood out to me.
Speaker 2: Actually, you said, but instead we have a system which
Speaker 2: creates broken families and turns good people into lost souls.
Speaker 1: Can you explain what you meant by this? Can you
Speaker 1: give an example.
Speaker 3: I think what I.
Speaker 4: Was trying to mean by that was that, you know,
Speaker 4: I come from background where we didn't have a lot
Speaker 4: of resources growing up, and so one of the challenges
Speaker 4: I think we have with government is a government sometimes
Speaker 4: makes it too difficult for people from underresource backgrounds to
Speaker 4: navigate the system, and they get lost and they get
Speaker 4: frustrated and then things don't go so well. So I
Speaker 4: was thinking in terms of accessing social support services. But
Speaker 4: also if we don't give young people the kinds of
Speaker 4: education opportunities they need through public schooling or even private education,
Speaker 4: people can get lost as well.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of where I was hitting.
Speaker 2: And it's been a pretty quick rise to minister for you,
Speaker 2: it seems. What's it like going from Paula Bennett's Press
Speaker 2: sec to now a Minister of the Crown.
Speaker 4: Well, I think what I didn't realize was how busy
Speaker 4: Paula would have been and how busy ministers are. They
Speaker 4: kind of hide it from the staff a little bit
Speaker 4: and you don't get a full picture of everything that
Speaker 4: ministers do.
Speaker 3: But it's been really eye opening.
Speaker 4: To just see the amount of reading you need to do,
Speaker 4: the travel you do, the challenges that you have to
Speaker 4: deal with. I've got a lot of admiration for people
Speaker 4: who can do this for six nine years, and even
Speaker 4: having done it for six months now, I can see
Speaker 4: why it takes its toll on a lot of ministers.
Speaker 4: So I'm very impressed for anyone that can stick it
Speaker 4: out for a certain length of time.
Speaker 1: Do you reckon you're going to stick it out for
Speaker 1: six to nine years?
Speaker 3: Well, I hope, So.
Speaker 4: I hope I can be in this role for as
Speaker 4: long as I can make a difference in as long
Speaker 4: as I've got the confidence of the PM to be
Speaker 4: part of his team. I think, you know, in youth
Speaker 4: and in my South Island portfolio and in transport, we're
Speaker 4: making some good progress in some key areas. Just a
Speaker 4: couple of weeks ago we had the Youth Parliament here,
Speaker 4: which was great to see lots of young people bringing
Speaker 4: their for wester to Parliament. But also in that transport role,
Speaker 4: trying to make a difference for consumers around air fears
Speaker 4: and regional connectivity. So as long as I can keep
Speaker 4: making positive improvements and differences to government, I'd like.
Speaker 3: To be able to stick around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because how much your return flights from Wellington to
Speaker 2: Tamaru At the moment.
Speaker 4: They could be upwards of four to five hundred dollars
Speaker 4: each way depending on when you.
Speaker 1: Book god, And is it your job to try and
Speaker 1: get them down.
Speaker 3: Well, I think as much as possible.
Speaker 4: Part of it is making sure that the connectivity is reliable,
Speaker 4: so we've extended reporting for on time performance to the
Speaker 4: regions for the first time, so people know exactly how
Speaker 4: reliable their flights are. And then of course it's assisting
Speaker 4: the likes of their New Zealand, but also our smaller
Speaker 4: regional carriers with workforce make sure they've got enough engineers
Speaker 4: and pilots, making sure they've got access to the parts.
Speaker 4: All of that goes in to gum up the system,
Speaker 4: makes it more difficult for them to operate, which makes
Speaker 4: the costs pass on to consumers, So that's all part
Speaker 4: of the mix, and airfares for consumers is probably the
Speaker 4: biggest focus, especially if you live in the regions.
Speaker 3: It's expensive to travel.
Speaker 4: Sometimes you've got to travel by road quite a lot
Speaker 4: just to get to the airport and then pay eight
Speaker 4: nine hundred bucks to fly north or fly south. So
Speaker 4: speak focus for me, particularly for our royal communities.
Speaker 3: Mister speaker.
Speaker 4: This is why we are all here to debate freely,
Speaker 4: to have an open, robust contest of ideas, to challenge
Speaker 4: one another in an environment where disputes are resolved by
Speaker 4: the showing of hands and not by the throwing of fists.
Speaker 4: But the speaker, we are here to represent the people
Speaker 4: who put us here, and some of us are here
Speaker 4: to disrupt and to challenge the status quo.
Speaker 3: And I get that, and I really do. But in
Speaker 3: doing so we must respect this institution.
Speaker 2: I mean, let's have a look at your other portfolios
Speaker 2: as well. So we've got Hunting and Fishing, Youth South
Speaker 2: Island and of course we've just mentioned Associate Transport.
Speaker 1: First off, why does the South Island need a minister?
Speaker 4: Well, I think the South Island always needs a good
Speaker 4: voice in Wellington in Parliament sometimes I think because we're
Speaker 4: so distant and because we're off.
Speaker 3: Doing our own independent things.
Speaker 4: You know, we're a parochial, independent bunch down South and
Speaker 4: often we like to be left alone. But also we
Speaker 4: like to make sure that we're playing our role in
Speaker 4: things like growing the economy and producing the exports. So
Speaker 4: it's a recognition that sometimes maybe we can't get that
Speaker 4: cut through into Wellington, into the bureaucracy.
Speaker 3: So hopefully I can.
Speaker 4: Be a voice for different projects and different issues around
Speaker 4: the South Island, things like you know, raising the possibility
Speaker 4: of turning in vo cargo into a data center, or
Speaker 4: to look at what the opportunities are in Queenstown for
Speaker 4: film tourism and health tourism and bringing those ideas to
Speaker 4: the relative ministers and trying to promote them as much
Speaker 4: as I can.
Speaker 2: Right, So it's not really just all about cake cutting
Speaker 2: and baby holding and taking photos and stuff.
Speaker 1: There's actually something tangible that you're doing.
Speaker 4: Well, it's far more, far more important than their cake
Speaker 4: cutting in the ribbon snipping. Yeah, it's actually about you know,
Speaker 4: the South Island's got a big role to play in
Speaker 4: terms of growing our tourism sector, growing our agricultural sector.
Speaker 4: If we want to double our exports, it's not just
Speaker 4: about sending twice as much stuff overseas, it's about doing
Speaker 4: it in a cleverer way. So looking at how we
Speaker 4: can invest in tech, making sure that the South plays
Speaker 4: its role there, and I would like us to have
Speaker 4: a disproportionate impact on our country's growth story so that
Speaker 4: people can be really proud of what we produce down south.
Speaker 3: It's not a North versus South issue.
Speaker 4: It's really about how do I make sure we get
Speaker 4: the best out of the West Coast, out of the
Speaker 4: top of the South, out of Canbry, out of a
Speaker 4: Tigo and everything in between. And if there are gaps
Speaker 4: or if there are projects that need to be focused
Speaker 4: on by Wellington, I can bring those to the attention
Speaker 4: of the relevant ministers.
Speaker 2: A lot of towns in the South Island flooded in
Speaker 2: recent weeks.
Speaker 1: We've covered this a bit of on the podcast already.
Speaker 2: What do we need to do to kind of future
Speaker 2: proof towns like say Nelson and Tasman.
Speaker 4: We need to look at what investment we're making into
Speaker 4: our flood protection and resiliency projects. So the first round
Speaker 4: of regional infrastructure projects we're all around reinforcing floodbanks and
Speaker 4: stop banks and making sure we've got those protections in place.
Speaker 4: There are particularly vulnerable areas up and down the South Island.
Speaker 4: If you think of you on the West coast, you've
Speaker 4: got one road in and one road out, and if
Speaker 4: there are slips or there are access points cut off,
Speaker 4: that makes it very difficult to get around and live
Speaker 4: your life. And where I come from in South Canterbury,
Speaker 4: between Timor and christ Church, there's six bridges on State
Speaker 4: Highway one. If any one of those bridges goes out,
Speaker 4: then you've got a long detour and that's cost and
Speaker 4: time and good. So making sure we've got good, reliable infrastructure,
Speaker 4: making sure that we are planning properly and that we've
Speaker 4: got a pipeline of growth through our sort of thirty.
Speaker 3: Year infrastructure plans.
Speaker 4: But importantly to be able to pay for that, we
Speaker 4: have to have the economy to be able to do that.
Speaker 4: So you know, it's sort of a little bit chicken
Speaker 4: and egg. You want to invest in the infrastructure, but
Speaker 4: you've got to have the money to do that. To
Speaker 4: do that, you've got to get the growth. To get
Speaker 4: the growth, you've got to have the infrastructure, so you've
Speaker 4: got to do everything at once.
Speaker 2: And in terms of down South, I know my producer
Speaker 2: said that he knows a lot of people that have
Speaker 2: moved down south recently. He's only just heard of Selwyn
Speaker 2: in particular, which I've heard is booming for the last decade.
Speaker 2: But I mean in terms of these regions and people saying, hey,
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't want to spend one thousand
Speaker 2: dollars a week rent in Auckland. I want to go
Speaker 2: down south. I want to go to Ashburn and Timoru
Speaker 2: things like that. Is the South getting enough support from
Speaker 2: central government to cope with this boom?
Speaker 4: I think we could always have more Everyone could always
Speaker 4: have more support ever in the country, right, Like if
Speaker 4: we had an unlimited money tree, we would invest across
Speaker 4: the board, but we are limited as to what we
Speaker 4: can do. I think down South we get a good
Speaker 4: shake of the stick. I think we've got significant investments
Speaker 4: in large health projects, like in Dneina Nelson. We've got
Speaker 4: some substantial infrastructure projects coming in and around. You know,
Speaker 4: we're getting a second ash Burton Bridge finally, and there's
Speaker 4: a number of water projects going in and around two
Speaker 4: In terms of housing, you saw that Queenstown Lakes.
Speaker 3: Are the first ones off the board.
Speaker 4: For the regional deal and a lot of that will
Speaker 4: be to do with how do we support the infrastructure
Speaker 4: to facilitate more housing growth because, as you mentioned, eighty
Speaker 4: thousand people from the North Island moved to the South
Speaker 4: Island over the last five years. It's a really attractive
Speaker 4: place to come and live. Housing's affordable, lifestyle is great,
Speaker 4: the scenery is Amazingourage actually more Northolanders to move down.
Speaker 4: I will pick you up from the airport Cholsea and
Speaker 4: show you around and show you them open homes if
Speaker 4: you're willing to come down.
Speaker 1: God, you think that I have the money to purchase
Speaker 1: a property at the moment. That's nice.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of things that I've seen on the internet,
Speaker 2: James is the Youth Minister required to participate in TikTok
Speaker 2: dances or was that a choice?
Speaker 3: It's not mandatory.
Speaker 4: But I'm always out there to advocate for and represent
Speaker 4: my constituents. So when you're out there in Pottydoo and
Speaker 4: you're talking with young people and youth organizations and they
Speaker 4: ask you to do a trend or a TikTok dance,
Speaker 4: you oblige right, and they promised me it wouldn't be difficult.
Speaker 4: We practiced a long time for that thirty second video,
Speaker 4: and I think, you know, if I came off moderately competent,
Speaker 4: I think that's a success.
Speaker 2: I could see you counting in your head during that.
Speaker 2: But I mean in terms of youth and that portfolio
Speaker 2: from your maidens speech, I can see that you have
Speaker 2: a passion for young people and to make sure that
Speaker 2: they get the best start in life, and your mom
Speaker 2: sounds like she was a huge part of that. How
Speaker 2: do we make sure the kids, perhaps with who don't
Speaker 2: have mothers like yours, get the best start in life.
Speaker 4: I think that's the point one of the key reasons
Speaker 4: that I'm in politics. It's because you know, I acknowledge
Speaker 4: that I was quite fortunate to have mum who drove
Speaker 4: us into education, who got us to school, and I
Speaker 4: know that not ever runs in that situation. So that
Speaker 4: is where your community, your neighborhood, and you know, even
Speaker 4: the state can step up and provide that kind of
Speaker 4: support that maybe some kids aren't fortunate enough to have
Speaker 4: in their households.
Speaker 3: And honestly, I think.
Speaker 4: One of the best ways we can do that is
Speaker 4: through the social investment approach, the idea that if we
Speaker 4: take the time to look about what actually works, to
Speaker 4: invest in the programs for young people early on, you
Speaker 4: can get the benefits in the low run, not only
Speaker 4: for the taxpayer in terms of money saved through the
Speaker 4: welfare system and through the health system and education, but
Speaker 4: also just to improve the well being and the outlooks
Speaker 4: for those young kids. I think that's really really important.
Speaker 4: So that's a key focus for me in my youth portfolio.
Speaker 4: We look at twelve to twenty four, so not quite
Speaker 4: at that bottom end, which is more of the education
Speaker 4: and health space. But I'm trying to refocus the department
Speaker 4: so that the funding that we do have can target
Speaker 4: those young people, getting them into employment and education. Looking
Speaker 4: at young parents as well, because if we don't support them,
Speaker 4: it's their children that are going to feel the brunt
Speaker 4: of it in the long run.
Speaker 2: How do we get twenty year olds to stay in
Speaker 2: New Zealand though, and not go off to Australia.
Speaker 3: The best thing we can do is to give them opportunities.
Speaker 4: And at the moment, you know, we've got a neighbor
Speaker 4: in Australia that is they're a very wealthy country and
Speaker 4: a very attractive place to go and work and to
Speaker 4: earn a living.
Speaker 3: It's not perfect over there. I know.
Speaker 4: I've got friends and relatives who have moved there for
Speaker 4: work and have buyers remorse.
Speaker 3: Sometimes there's nothing like working and living at home.
Speaker 4: But ultimately, we've got to create an economy where there
Speaker 4: are jobs and.
Speaker 3: Opportunities for young people.
Speaker 4: We've got to create a society where I think people
Speaker 4: feel supported and feel like they can raise a family
Speaker 4: and live in a safe, secure country. And all of
Speaker 4: that takes time. It's not going to be turned around overnight.
Speaker 4: And one of the things that Australia does have is
Speaker 4: that they've got an enormous amount of resources that they use,
Speaker 4: and I think we've got the same opportunity. We can
Speaker 4: do it in a sustainable, environmentally appropriate way and it's
Speaker 4: important for us for our tourism. But there is more
Speaker 4: we could do to encourage our resources sect or our
Speaker 4: energy sectors, our construction sectors to be able to keep
Speaker 4: those young people here in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: Are we doing enough at the moment.
Speaker 4: I think we're on the right track. I think we
Speaker 4: can always do more. It's challenging because you've got to
Speaker 4: have consensus across political parties and in the public for
Speaker 4: these kinds of projects, and if you move too far,
Speaker 4: too fast, it can create pushback, say with some sectors.
Speaker 4: So if we can't convince the public and take them
Speaker 4: with us that this is the right thing to do,
Speaker 4: and even convince some of our colleagues across the aisle
Speaker 4: that look, actually, we can do particular pieces of mining
Speaker 4: and resource extraction and constructing new dams and new hydro
Speaker 4: and new solar power in a way which still maintains
Speaker 4: extraordinary environmental outcomes. If we can convince them with that
Speaker 4: and make sure those projects are long lasting, then we
Speaker 4: can move a little bit more quickly. But we've got
Speaker 4: to do the groundwork first, and we're very much aware
Speaker 4: that not everyone is in the same space as were
Speaker 4: the same. Mister Goldsmith did outline very clearly our long
Speaker 4: held position on this bill and the reasons why we
Speaker 4: will vote for it to go to.
Speaker 3: A Slept Committee hearing, but no further.
Speaker 4: A coalition agreement with Act stipulates we will quote introduce
Speaker 4: a treaty principle's bill based on existing Act policy and
Speaker 4: support it to a Select committee as soon as practicable
Speaker 4: we will honor this commitment and support this bill to
Speaker 4: Select Committee.
Speaker 3: So Speaker, we will also.
Speaker 4: Honor our pre election commitment and vote against the bill
Speaker 4: at second reading.
Speaker 2: And now I was introduced to you through the Justice
Speaker 2: Select Committee. In my former life, I was a crime
Speaker 2: and Justice reporter, so I watched a couple of seasons
Speaker 2: of that and you oversaw the Treaty Principle's Bill chat.
Speaker 1: How was that? From your end?
Speaker 3: It was an interesting process.
Speaker 4: I find it interesting you describe the Justice Committee as
Speaker 4: a season like it's almost like a show.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure many people actually, he said there watched
Speaker 2: them all.
Speaker 4: Well, no one just watches them from season to season.
Speaker 4: That you did, I'm sure, But I mean the Treaty
Speaker 4: Principles Bill process was interesting because it was a real
Speaker 4: lesson in how select committees actually to get the work done.
Speaker 4: We have to generally work together across political parties. And
Speaker 4: if anyone out there is interested, they go back and
Speaker 4: read the Select Committee report. It's got an appendix that
Speaker 4: lists all the decisions that were made by the Select Committee,
Speaker 4: and by and large, they were all done unanimously. And
Speaker 4: that's because they all recognize whether or not you agreed
Speaker 4: with the bill or not. The number of submissions and
Speaker 4: the amount of work that needed to be undertaken meant
Speaker 4: that we had to work together to get the job done,
Speaker 4: and I think generally we did a pretty good job.
Speaker 4: I think we treated submitters with respect, We heard every
Speaker 4: kind of argument you could hear, and at the end
Speaker 4: of the day we produced a report that the Parliament
Speaker 4: went and voted on. So it was an interesting process.
Speaker 4: It was a good lesson in diplomacy. I'm sure the
Speaker 4: Parliament learned some lessons about how to run submissions, and
Speaker 4: I think we need to be looking at what the
Speaker 4: select committee process is and should be for in the future,
Speaker 4: because we're seeing a lot of submissions coming in that
Speaker 4: are one or two lines now, whereas that process, you know,
Speaker 4: generally is to try and improve an enhance and amen legislation,
Speaker 4: and it's not supposed to be an advocacy piece or
Speaker 4: a set piece for political actions. So I wonder whether
Speaker 4: or not we need to review what the purpose of
Speaker 4: select committees are so that we can maintain the public
Speaker 4: access into the legislative process without flooding the system so
Speaker 4: much that nothing can happen.
Speaker 1: So what are your future ambitions in Parliament.
Speaker 4: Well, I would love to stick around as a minister
Speaker 4: as much as possible. Obviously, we've got an electoral cycle,
Speaker 4: so very soon we'll probably move to you know, trying
Speaker 4: to convince the public to give us another three years
Speaker 4: to continue working on.
Speaker 3: This program, and I'd like to be a part of that.
Speaker 4: I'd like to continue being part of a government. I'd
Speaker 4: obviously take any opportunity in the ministry that the Prime
Speaker 4: Minister would present me with, but there are areas that
Speaker 4: I'm passionate about. I would love to assist Paul Goldsmith
Speaker 4: in the justice space in Erica, Stanford and Nugic. So
Speaker 4: part of the South Island portfolio which is really exciting
Speaker 4: to me is that I can do that. I can
Speaker 4: go out and visit schools on behalf of Erica and
Speaker 4: feedback to them what the education needs are in the
Speaker 4: South Island. I can meet with corrections and police around
Speaker 4: the South Island and see where there are places we
Speaker 4: can improve our performance in and around maybe Central Targo
Speaker 4: or up in Nelson. So I'm just really enthusiastic about
Speaker 4: continuing to try and make a positive difference to the
Speaker 4: country and if I can do that as long as possible,
Speaker 4: they'd be great.
Speaker 2: A lot of chat after your maiden speech. Actually, what
Speaker 2: do you make of that when people say you have
Speaker 2: the potential to become a prime minister of this country
Speaker 2: one day.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's all very premature and probably designed
Speaker 4: to click a few headlines here and there. Ultimately, I'm
Speaker 4: really proud to be the MP for Rangatata. I love
Speaker 4: where I come from. I come from Timur. I'm very
Speaker 4: proud of it. It's the rivi Era of the South.
Speaker 4: It's got the country's best hat water. It is a
Speaker 4: great place to grow up and live, and I'm really
Speaker 4: proud to represent it. I don't think I could ever
Speaker 4: represent another part of the country.
Speaker 3: So I'm just.
Speaker 4: Really happy to be the MP, really really privileged to
Speaker 4: be a minister so quickly in this term, and just
Speaker 4: focused on doing that job right.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, James.
Speaker 3: No worries. Thanks hearing me.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 2: at enziherld dot co dot MZ.
Speaker 1: The Front Page is produced by.
Speaker 2: Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our editor.
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2: Subscribe to the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: And tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.