1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Ask Scott Simpson's Banking reforms in trouble is the question 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: that a lot of people are asking right now because 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: yesterday ASB settled a class action claim against the bank 4 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: for one hundred and thirty five million dollars. The class 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: action still stands against A and Z. They are going 6 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: to fight it and they are the only bank therefore 7 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: that is in need of this retrospective bailout. Through the 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: changes in the Triple CFA, there is now a suggestion 9 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: it's not going to happen because New Zealand first might 10 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: be a handbreak. Kent Dunstan Dustin rather is the Banking 11 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Reform Coalition convenor and with us High. 12 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: Kent evening hither, how are you? 13 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: I'm very well, thank you. D Does it look to 14 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: you like ASB may have settled here because they can 15 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: see the law change is not coming. 16 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: Well, I mean you'd have to look at it from 17 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: the point of view of the bank and say, you know, 18 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: they're not in the business of handing out one hundred 19 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: and thirty five million dollars for the fun of it. 20 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 2: If there was a law change coming that was going 21 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: to get them off the hot the ensure that wait 22 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 2: for that. So I think, you know, to the untutored observer, 23 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 2: we'd have to say that the odds that they're going 24 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: to get the legislation that they wanted through Minister Simce 25 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: look pretty remote. And you know, when they weigh up 26 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: the odds, they've decided that paying up now is better 27 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: than fighting it out in court in March. 28 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: And so what is your vibe. Are you hearing that 29 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: New Zealand First is the problem they're going to kill 30 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: this law change? 31 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think it was pretty apparent from when the 32 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: bill went to Select Committee that New Zealand First were 33 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: pretty skeptical, right, But because and if you look at 34 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: the bill, it really doesn't do that much other than 35 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: provide this retrospective law change. And no matter how we 36 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 2: slice and dicee that it's pretty toxic to making to 37 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: be making retrospective law changes that you know, benefit these 38 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: large banks. After all, a m Z hasn't yet settled. 39 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 2: It would be the only bank that is going to 40 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: get the benefit from this law change. We're talking about 41 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: the largest bank in the country that had a profit 42 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: of more than two billion dollars you know, last year. 43 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: If anyone needs a handout, it sure isn't a m 44 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: Z now. 45 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: So I'm taking it from the way that you've just 46 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: answered that question that you're not a huge fan of this. 47 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I don't think that you know, a 48 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: retrospective law change is never good, right, I mean, it 49 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: undermines the rule of law. And we are talking about 50 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: a case that was before the courts. And after all, 51 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: you know, the legislation would only affect cases between twenty 52 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: fifteen and twenty nineteen because the law changed after twenty nineteen, 53 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: and that means that these things aren't going to come 54 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: around again. So it looked pretty clear that really it 55 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: was for the benefit of ASP and am Z and 56 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 2: there's a lot of hand waving about it, but fundamentally 57 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: it was a bad law and we shouldn't underestimate the 58 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: degree to which this is a huge political loss to 59 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: the Bankers Association. I mean, they have a compliant minister 60 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 2: in the former Minister Simpson. They seem to have more 61 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: lobbyists running around Willington Flees on a dog and yet 62 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: all armed with excess cards. Yet it seems that they 63 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: can't get this bill across the line. Because if they 64 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: could get the bill across the line, well why did 65 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 2: ASB need to write a check for one hundred and 66 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: thirty five million. 67 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're coming up against equally experienced lobbyists, aren't they. 68 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure there's actually that many lobbyists on 69 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: the side of consumers running around Parliament. So you know, 70 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: I really think this is a victory for common sense 71 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: and I think that there is a bit of a 72 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: shout out to New Zealand first on this one, because 73 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: without one of the Coalition partners standing against it, surely 74 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: this would have just proceeded through Select Committee and into 75 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 2: law and the banks would be off the hooks. 76 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: So is there not an argument to be made, though, 77 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: Kent that this is a chancing of the arm by 78 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: the lawyer who's doing this, because if the law has 79 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: been changed, right, because it was obviously not a great 80 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: great piece of legislation, he's seen an opportunity. 81 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: Well yeah, look, this is always the balancing, isn't it. 82 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: And look, I do think Scott Russell, you know, the 83 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: lawyer who's been leading this, irrespective of the merits of 84 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: this particular case, has really done the country a bit 85 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: of a service because we do not have any enabling 86 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: lead for these class actions in New Zealand, and so, 87 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: as he points out, you know, he's spent the last 88 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: four years fighting about how this process is going to work. 89 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: So they've been talking about the process rather than the 90 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: merits of the case itself. And this is the first time, 91 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 2: really this has succeeded. So what he's done is open 92 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: the door for groups of consumers to finally be able 93 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 2: to hold large corporates, particularly large multinationals, to account in 94 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: the courts. And it's hard to see that as a 95 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: bad thing. 96 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: Do you think, though, let's talk about the merits of 97 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: the case really quickly and the available time that I have. 98 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: Do you think though, it is fair that the banks 99 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: are being lumped with a payout as big as this 100 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: for what they have. 101 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 2: Done, well, you know their banks, So yes, I do, 102 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 2: in the sense that they have all of the money 103 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 2: in the world. You know, they made a mistake. And 104 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: let's face it, who doesn't think that AMZ can't afford 105 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 2: a new computer to get this kind of stuff right. 106 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: They have all the money in the world, They can 107 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 2: hire as many staff as they need, they can buy 108 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: all of the IT systems that have ever been created. 109 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: And if they still manage to get it wrong, surely 110 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 2: they should be on the hook for that. 111 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: Kent, it's good to talk to you. Thanks very much, 112 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: appreciate your time, mate, Kent Dustin Banking Reform coalition convener 113 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: No mercy from Kent. 114 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to 115 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: news Talks. 116 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 117 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.