1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to the year of growth, as pointed out by 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister Christopher Luxon yesterday, and that economic growth 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: and the economic recovery of New Zealand has been placed 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: firmly into Nicola Willis's lap. Nicola the Finance minister. She 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: is now though also the new Minister for Economic Growth 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: in addition to being Finance. Chris Luxon says twenty twenty 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: five is all about going for growth, and Nichola is 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: the one to do it, and Nikola joins, who Now, 9 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: Congratulations Nicola and happy new Year. 10 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: Thanks Andrew, Happy new year to you too. And this 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: is going to be the year in which we drive 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 2: growth to the New Zealand economy forward. That is the 13 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 2: way we can afford all of the things New Zealanders 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 2: deserve now, job, veter incomes, investment in our public services. 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: Let's talk about this new portfolio. So economic development now 16 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: becomes economic growth and it goes from Melissa Lee's hands 17 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: to yours. Why wasn't in your hands right from the 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: get go? 19 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: Well, traditionally these two portfolios finance are and what has 20 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: been previously called economic development haven't been held by the 21 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: same minister. What the PMS identified is given how important 22 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: growth is to our agenda. He wants me driving that 23 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: across government. So in this portfolio, I will lead the 24 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: Ministry for Business, Innovation and Employment. Yes, and through that role, 25 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: I will be making sure that we're responding to businesses, industries, 26 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: small business owners about what they need to have the 27 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 2: confidence to be investing, to be hiring, to be innovating. 28 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: And there are a lot of things we can do 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: to reform New Zealand to remove the barriers to all 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: of those. Talk about that now progressing a big agenda, 31 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: but there's more to do. 32 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. But MB was created by Stephen 33 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: Joyce who was the Minister of Finance as well, and 34 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: it is a big unit full of a lot of 35 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: big brains who work on economic development in many cases, 36 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: and you are starting to use their forecast as well 37 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: as Treasury more and more and again I come back 38 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: to the question it just beggars belief that the two 39 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: were separated in the first place. 40 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: Well, look, MB does things that are very specific to 41 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 2: particular sectors. So they're looking at the whole immigration area, 42 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: they look at the science and innovation area, regulation, employment law, 43 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: so it's a broad span whereas Treasury's focus is more 44 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: on the big picture of what are we doing to 45 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: manage the books, ensure that inflation and interest rates are 46 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: in the right place, and those questions of where we 47 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 2: allocate funding and the budget and across our various public services. 48 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: So they are distinct roles. There are a huge scope 49 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 2: for MB The point for me is, let's make sure 50 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: we're prioritizing that work properly. We're doing the things that 51 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: will really shift the dial, and we're doing them at pace, 52 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 2: and we're being responsive to the people who will actually 53 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 2: create growth, which in the end won't be a government minister, 54 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: and it'll be every entrepreneur who decides to invest in 55 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: that next step. It all we every exporter who says 56 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: let's take on a new market. It'll be every manufacturer 57 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: who says, let's buy that next piece of machinery. Where 58 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: both comes from. 59 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: I understand that all let's talk about growth and let's 60 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: talk about productivity. Because Roger Partridge from the New Zealand Initiative, 61 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: but an article in the Herald last week. Did you 62 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: read it? 63 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: I did. I thought it was a good article. 64 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: And he points out that New Zealand ranks near the 65 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: top of per capita resources and assets. But New Zealand 66 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: ranks seventh globally for average private adult wealth. This is 67 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: all great, but we are only ranked twenty second in 68 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: the OECD for GDP per capita. So in other words, 69 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: where's all the money going. We've got it, but it's 70 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 1: not going into productivity, that's right. 71 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: So actually our fundamentals are good. We are a wealthy 72 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: country when you think about our natural resources, our talent, 73 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: our capability. The problem is, for actually decades, we've done 74 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: badly on what people call productivity, which is how much 75 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: we produce for an hour of work. How people work hard, 76 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: they work big hours, but we don't get enough value 77 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: out of that, and that's because our economy hasn't been 78 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: as efficient as it needs to be. The question for 79 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: us is. 80 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: New Zealanders take their wealth and they invested in bricks 81 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: and watar because the residential market has been so profitable 82 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: for them, and then that's locked up money, you know, 83 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: and you've met it even easier for investors to lock 84 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: up money which should be going into businesses to expand. 85 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 2: Well, I'd argue that actually we will continue to need 86 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: rental properties available so that we have stabilization and rents 87 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: in New Zealand. But you're right, I do want to 88 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: see more investment and our industries and our export exporters 89 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: because they're the ones actually making us a living in 90 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: the world. And when you talk to farmers, when you 91 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: talk to people in the digital services industries, they say 92 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: for them to make those investments, they need to feel 93 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: that in New Zealand, they're not going to face too 94 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: much red tape. They can get skilled workers, that they've 95 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: got good trading relationships that if they want to access capital, 96 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: that is funding from other parts of the world, that 97 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 2: that investment can come in, that we have a good 98 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 2: science and innovation system to support them. So those are 99 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 2: the sorts of issues we have to get into. The 100 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: nitty gritty of it is actually an area that is 101 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: about the detail of each of those areas. And as 102 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: a government, we've been driving reform across the resource management 103 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: system so people can get a consent. We're looking to 104 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: cut through the red tape and the Health and Safety Act. 105 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: We've been doing things with employment law, but there is 106 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: more to. 107 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: Do Roger and Roger also talks about five hundred billion 108 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: dollars worth of Crown held assets that he believes locks 109 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: up the capital. He believes we need to get into 110 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: asset recycling, just like New South Wales have done over 111 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: the last decade. Do you agree. 112 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 2: I agree that we need to manage the significant assets 113 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: that the government owns much much better. When you look 114 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: across the Tessman Sydney Melbourne. Part of what has allowed 115 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: them to have much more advanced transport systems is that 116 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 2: they have embraced public private partners. They've allowed new mechanisms 117 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: for funding major public transport projects and major roads. And 118 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: that's exactly the reforms that we put in last year 119 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: with our National Infrastructure Agency now open for business and 120 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: we are actively seeking investment from partners around the world 121 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: to do a better job of delivering that infrastructure. 122 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: Well, because when you talk about asset recycling, that's just 123 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: a new politically correct term for a little bit of 124 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: privatization and that actually causes some willy wobbles, which and 125 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: I know that causes willy wobbles because Christopher Luxon in 126 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: his campaigns, we're saying we're not going to be doing 127 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: this sort of stuff. So in a way you said 128 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: we will. 129 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: Well, what I've said is the first step is to 130 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: manage our existing assets better. The second step is to 131 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 2: make sure that when we're creating new assets, new roads, 132 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 2: new hospitals, that we're doing that much more efficiently. And 133 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 2: then down the line are potentially at the election we 134 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 2: should have a conversation in New Zealand about our investments 135 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: in the right place. Are these things that we would 136 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: rather have than some of the things we currently have. 137 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: That's a conversation for down the line. But first step, 138 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: manage what we've got a lot better and deliver the 139 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: new things we're committed to much more efficiently. 140 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: Now I apologize, but this is it has to be said. 141 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,559 Speaker 1: Labor Minister Stuart Nash has written an opinion piece today 142 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: in newsroom. I don't know if you've read it or not, 143 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: and then it and I quote for those who have 144 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: not read it. There is a term circulating amongst the 145 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: business community around the country. It's called being Willist. Being 146 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: Willis happens to senior businessmen and women who attend meetings 147 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: with the Finance Minister Nicola Willis and leave having received 148 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: a lecture on how to run a business and what 149 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: they should do to be successful. Despite the fact that 150 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,239 Speaker 1: Nicola Willis has not been in the business sector apart 151 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: from one job at Fonterra. What do you make of 152 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: what Stuart's has written? 153 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: Well, I was so cross when I read that, because 154 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: it's so far from what I say to business audiences 155 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: and such a false depiction of my role at Fonterra 156 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: that I actually rang Stuart today to ask him where 157 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: he's coming from. Fortunately, he hasn't picked up my call yet, 158 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: So if you're listening, Stu, give me a call, because 159 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: one of the first things I say to business audiences 160 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: wherever I am in the country is it's not the 161 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: government who should tell you how to run your business. 162 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: You know how to do it better than we do. 163 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: Our job is to create the conditions in which you 164 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: can succeed. And I'll also defend myself. At Fonterra, I 165 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: had a range of roles including trade strategy with some 166 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: of our critical trading partners around the world, deploying our 167 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: commercial strategy, and ultimately running an operational unit with farms 168 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 2: and waste management. So his characterization of my experience is wrong. 169 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: We all make mistakes, Jue, so you are open to 170 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: correct that one, all right. 171 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: Now, Look, you've just hid the visitor Levy from thirty 172 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: five dollars to one hundred bucks per traveler counselors and 173 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: of course the Department of Conservation want that money. They 174 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: feel it's being sucked up into the consolidated fund or 175 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,359 Speaker 1: some slush fund somewhere. Are you going to give councils 176 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: and dock more to manage our our assets that are 177 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: stressed by tourism. 178 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 2: Yes. Our view is that having more international visitors come 179 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: to New Zealand is the really good thing, and I'm 180 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: delighted that the numbers for our foreign visitors through December 181 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: and January are the highest I've been in five years. 182 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 2: That does create pressure both on our conservation estate, our 183 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 2: national parks and the infrastructure needed to support those visitors, 184 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: and it creates pressure in our regions in terms of 185 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: what tourists coming in require. So we haven't made as 186 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 2: our cabinet decisions yet on what we will do specifically 187 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: with that additional revenue, but our intention is to support 188 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: both conservation activity and to support tourism and to keep 189 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: that pump going so that we keep attracting tourists and 190 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 2: the money they bring to our businesses, our retailers, our 191 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: hospitality providers. 192 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: Now and as I said at the beginning of the 193 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: program of New Zealand certainly has a mojo at the moment. 194 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: I mean you see what happened on this past weekend. Everywhere, 195 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: everybody's out, everybody's making things happen entrepreneurially. We're up for it, mate. 196 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: A year of growth is what we all want. Nicola, 197 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: I thank you so much for your time today. That 198 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: is Nicola Willis, the Finance Minister. 199 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to 200 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 201 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.