1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: So the government has agreed to set aside two hundred 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: and sixteen million dollars because it may need that money 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: to pay for the tax cuts for heated tobacco products 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: otherwise known as htps. Now htps is a new thing 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: where the tobacco is heated to a vapor rather than burnt, 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: so no oil, there is tobacco, it's heated to a 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: vapor rather than burnt and then ingested. So earlier this month, 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: the government announced a fifty percent cut to the excise 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: tax on the heated tobacco products, which are seen as 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: an alternative to vaping and regular cigarettes. They're good for 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: cessation of tobacco use, they say. Cabinet agreed that they're 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: likely to go be there's likely to be a huge 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: uptake of these products, so much so that they had 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: to put aside two hundred and sixteen million dollars in 15 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: four gone tax income over the next four years. So 16 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: Casey Costello is the Associate Health Minister and Customers Minister 17 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: and joins in our hell. Casey, Hi, how are you good? Gee? 18 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: That two hundred and sixteen million dollars is pretty big 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: and you know it presumes a big uptake. Do you 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,279 Speaker 1: believe that's going to happen. 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: No, And it was based upon the Treasury did some modeling. 22 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: They use Japan's figures as a benchmark to apply it 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 2: to Pen doesn't have vaping, so that's why the modeling 24 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 2: wasn't particularly helpful. So I think to put some perspectives, 25 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 2: we're talking about in total smokeless tobacco products in twenty 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: twenty three was about six million dollars worth of egg size. 27 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: That's that HTP is only a small component of that, 28 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 2: So we're talking about a small number we're hoping of 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 2: the two hundred and eighty five thousand people that are 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: still smoking. 31 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: Are you just presuming though the people on vapes aren't 32 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 1: going to go for htps because they're so happy with vapes. 33 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: But even so, this is actually a tobacco product, and 34 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: they might be saying to themselves, I'm missing the tobacco product, 35 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: you know, and this apparently is still good for me. 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: Do you think they're going to stay loyal to the 37 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: vapes and not go to the HB. 38 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: I think boats will remain shaper, which is the other component, 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: But there's no excize on boats at all, so it 40 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 2: still remains a price differentials. Okay, So, and I think 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: I think that's what's really helpful is to get some 42 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: perspective around us. This is to try and deal with 43 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: those who are hard core addicted smokers who don't want 44 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: to take up vaping. 45 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: Here's a question for you. Then here's a question. Then 46 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: if you do not believe it's true, why did cabinet 47 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: and all your good colleagues agree to putting aside two 48 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen million dollars. 49 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: So this is over a four year period, and it's 50 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: a projection of what might be forgone. So it's not 51 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: money we have and we're not you know, we're not 52 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: spending or anything. This is just a projection of what 53 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: it's going to cost. Hopefully it will well, it won't 54 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: be anywhere near thats aga. 55 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard Mike hustling this morning, 56 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: and he looked at that cabinet paper, and that cabinet 57 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: paper reckons it's seven two hundred people will quit smoking 58 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: in start on these alternative products and still and then 59 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: he freaked out because that means it's going to cost 60 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: eight thousand dollars each to the taxpayer to pay for 61 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: each one of those two hundred people. 62 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's yeah, it's I think it's it's kind 63 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: of false economy because you're talking about it fits money. 64 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: This is about providing an alternative. We're doing a twelve 65 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 2: month trial to see if it impacts. If there is 66 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: take up a meeting next month with all the quick 67 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 2: smoking providers to talk to them about how we're going 68 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 2: to measure this and how how they sing uptake will be. 69 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: It is less harmful. It is an opportunity to get 70 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: those that are hardcore smokers to stop smoking, and that's 71 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: what we're focused on. 72 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: Right The fifty percent cut to the excise tax will 73 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: make htps, which are mainly marketed by tobacco companies, a 74 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: lot cheaper. Now you have to wonder, are you making 75 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: this change as a favor to tobacco companies to give 76 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: them a replacement product as we get rid of cigarettes, 77 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: or are you actually truly trying to do this to 78 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: get smoke is too. 79 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: Quit and it's just such a distracting narrative. I have 80 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: absolutely no relationship with tobacco, never met with them. I 81 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: have no concern about what tobacco industry is doing. I 82 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: have absolutely targeted to help people quit smoking and that's 83 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: the goal and objective. I want people to not smoke 84 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: at all, and everything I'm doing is to try and 85 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 2: focus on that target. And this noise and distraction that's 86 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: been thrown around. I have absolutely beyond. I have been 87 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: scrutinized beyond anybody that I know of around any possible connection. 88 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: There has been no connection between me and the tobacco industry. 89 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: I have met all my obligations around conflicts of interest. 90 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 2: I am focused on getting people to quit smoking, and 91 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: that's my target. 92 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: Now. A lot of talk about the vapes, people start going, 93 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: are they really as a good tobacco cessation product? As 94 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: they say that there's an awful a lot of respiratory stuff, popcorn, 95 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: lung all that sort of thing. Do you believe these 96 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: htps are in fact going to be an awful lot 97 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: less harmful to smokers? 98 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: They are definitely a lot less harmful. That's what we know. 99 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: Because the carcinogenic of smoking is the burning of the tobacco. 100 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: It's that combustion that is the big issue. Now, that 101 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: doesn't mean there isn't other risks of cancers around oral 102 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: tobacco products. And that's the whole thing we're going to 103 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: look at as a separate discussion. We know with vaping, 104 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: two hundred and thirty thousand people quit smoking over the 105 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: last three years, so we know vaping has been a 106 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 2: really good tool get people to stop smoking. But it's 107 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: not safe and we know that we know that there 108 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: are health issues around it, but it's a lot safer 109 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: than smoking, and that's why we're looking at other products 110 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: that might help those who who haven't been successful for 111 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: disvesting products and that's what we've poken. 112 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: Okasey Concilla, I thank you very much for your time today, 113 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: Casey of course as the Associate Health Minister and the 114 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: customers Minister. And that is the trick. If you give 115 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: up smoking and start vaping, the idea is then to 116 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: move on and give up the vaping too, if you 117 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: really want to live a long and healthy life. 118 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to 119 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 120 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.