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Speaker 1: What do we make of this member's bill looking a

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Speaker 1: bund social media for the under sixteens based on the

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Speaker 1: Australian model. Basically, it would make companies use age verification.

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Speaker 1: Now the National MP Catherine web is behind the bill

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Speaker 1: and as well as Catherine, very good.

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Speaker 2: Morning to you, Good morning Mike.

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Speaker 1: We've got a little bit of theory versus reality going here.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. I strongly believe that parents should be

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Speaker 2: better supported in protecting their children from the online harms

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Speaker 2: of social media. I'm regularly hearing from parents and principles

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Speaker 2: who are worried about the negative impacts of social media,

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Speaker 2: whether it's cyber bullying, exploitation, or inappropriate content, concerns about

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Speaker 2: anxiety and mental well being and mental health. And this

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Speaker 2: bill mirror is the approach that's been taken in Australia.

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Speaker 2: It's going to put the onus on social media companies

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Speaker 2: to ensure that you have to be over the age

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Speaker 2: of sixteen before they can access social media.

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Speaker 1: Well, you don't have to be. All you have to

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Speaker 1: be is the person who clicks the button that says

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Speaker 1: you are, which is two completely different things, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think at the moment social media companies aren't

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Speaker 2: doing enough. You know, it's incredibly easy for a young

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Speaker 2: child to set up a Snapchat account or a social

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Speaker 2: media account because they just put in often fake ages

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Speaker 2: and they have full access as many parents know. But

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Speaker 2: this bill requires that these social media companies must take

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Speaker 2: reasonable steps to prevent under sixteen year olds from having accounts,

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Speaker 2: and if they fail to do that, they're going to

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Speaker 2: face significant penalties under this bill. So putting the onus

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Speaker 2: on the social media company, what are.

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Speaker 1: The significant steps, specifically.

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Speaker 2: The significant steps, Well, that will be up to the

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Speaker 2: social media companies to put better ID verification in place, and.

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Speaker 1: So you know they can do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's what they're working at. That's what they're

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Speaker 2: working on in Australia at the moment, and that's what

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Speaker 2: they are working on in many areas around the world.

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Speaker 2: Because of course there's many jurisdictions that are also taking

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Speaker 2: action in this space. You will have seen in the

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Speaker 2: UK and the U, Canada and then Texas recently past

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Speaker 2: legislation which bans under eighteens.

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Speaker 1: I give you what I'm trying to Catherine, what I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to get out of you is the reality versus

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Speaker 1: the theory. Which is what I started with this. As

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Speaker 1: much as I am on your side, and every parent

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Speaker 1: would be on your side. If you can't technically make

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Speaker 1: somebody do something or they don't technically know how to

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Speaker 1: do it, all you're doing is relying on honesty. And

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Speaker 1: we know that's a futile exercise.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we have restrictions in the physical world

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Speaker 2: to protect our kits, so we should have restrictions in

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Speaker 2: the online world. And this bill, but.

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Speaker 1: Only if you can you can be technically. You can't

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Speaker 1: short of going are you sixteen or not? Short of that,

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Speaker 1: there is nothing there technically, and the Australians have found

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Speaker 1: this out. Of course, there's nothing there that is available

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Speaker 1: to us that makes that happen.

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Speaker 2: But at the moment, you know, parents, they are really

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Speaker 2: really struggling.

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Speaker 1: And I'm a parent, I get it.

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Speaker 2: I know the emotion.

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Speaker 1: Don't sell me the emotion, sell me the technical answer,

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Speaker 1: and sadly you don't have one.

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Speaker 2: No, Well, I think that we do because this bill

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Speaker 2: it says to those social media companies that you must

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Speaker 2: take reasonable steps.

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Speaker 1: And what if they dont technically, we simply don't know

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Speaker 1: how to do it, because think about just zooming on

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Speaker 1: the phone. The kids in your room with your phone,

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Speaker 1: they go on into social media, they think are you sixteen? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Or no.

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Speaker 1: What you're asking them to do technically is when the

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Speaker 1: kid lies and goes, yes, I'm sixteen. Somehow magically Mark

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Speaker 1: Zuckerberg's going to go hah, no, you're not, and he

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Speaker 1: can't do that.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to be perfect, Mike, It's not going

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Speaker 2: to be perfect. But at the moment, this is a

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Speaker 2: direction from the government that we need to do more

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Speaker 2: to protect our kids from online harm, and we need

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Speaker 2: to put that onus back on those social media comes

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Speaker 2: who are serving our kids at the moment inappropriate content.

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Speaker 2: We are just seeing so much damage caused in our

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Speaker 2: communities from social media and so this is a really

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Speaker 2: important step in the right direction, and we really need

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Speaker 2: to try to protect our.

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Speaker 1: Kids, act not with it. So do you see labor

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Speaker 1: coming on board with us.

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Speaker 2: Look, we're getting some positive responses because everyone, I think

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Speaker 2: sees there's a need and there's a need to protect

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Speaker 2: our kids from online harm. This is a bill that

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Speaker 2: I've been working on for over a year now, and

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Speaker 2: it is complex, as we've already discussed, but it's progressive

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Speaker 2: that I've got it through our National Party caucus. The

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister is keen to work on this further and

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Speaker 2: look at it and see whether we can bring it

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Speaker 2: forward as a government bill, which would be a really

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Speaker 2: good result for families and parents and kids across New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: So I'll be absolutely advocating for it to become a

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Speaker 2: government bill and i'd those other parties to get behind it.

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Speaker 1: All right, Catherine, let's talk. You appreciate it very much.

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Speaker 1: Catherine Weird, who's the national tookie, took emp out of

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Speaker 1: the way. We'll ask Ginny because of course ACT aren't

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Speaker 1: on it, and they're at they're not on it for

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Speaker 1: the very same reasons. I argue it's actually not doable.

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Speaker 1: If it was doable, fantastic, We're all behind it. But

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Speaker 1: I'm just not in too politicians who virtue signal, which

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Speaker 1: is essentially what this is. Because you sell a motion,

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Speaker 1: you go this is a problem, this is an issue.

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Speaker 1: We all need help, and we all go yes, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: And what's your answer, Well, something that doesn't work. I

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Speaker 1: mean what Mersey's pointed that for more from the Mic

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Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast Listen Live to News Talks, it'd be from

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Speaker 1: six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio