1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,519 Speaker 1: Tuesday morning, Prime Minster. Chrystopher Luxan, though joins us first, 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: good morning to you. 3 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike, how are you today? 4 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Very well? Indeed, did you do anything for Valentine's Day? 5 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 2: Do you know what? I didn't? 6 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 3: Actually, because every day is Valentine's Day and the luxe 7 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 3: and household. 8 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: Is that your wife is sick of hearing. 9 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: It's a reason for no. We sat down. 10 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 3: I think we had dinner on our on our laps, 11 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 3: and I think we started watching. There was some Netflix 12 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 3: show we started getting into, not the Brian Apple side 13 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 3: of vinegar. Really, it was that terrible story about social 14 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 3: media influences and leading people. 15 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: I've heard that crap Brian Johnson you are into. Do 16 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: you think he's mad or not? 17 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 2: He's intense. 18 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 3: I mean, I just think you've got to enjoy life 19 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 3: as well somewhere along the way. But there's something that 20 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 3: he's doing that's at the edge, and that's always interesting 21 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 3: because he's obviously body hacking and trying to find a 22 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 3: way to age negatively age. But he'd be an interesting 23 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 3: guy to talk to if you could ever get him one. 24 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: But I think, well, Sammy's on and you talk to 25 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: Sammy every week and no one's better at getting people 26 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: on the program. He can do it, Sam will do 27 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: so either that or will sack them. Speaking of which, 28 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: Brian roach. He appears to be very very good at 29 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: what he does because he's worked out the public service 30 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: isn't up to scratch and he's looking at blowing up departments. 31 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: Is this doge in Z style? 32 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, he's an excellent hire, 33 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 3: and I've known Brian for a long time. He's going 34 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 3: to be great at this job. What we really want 35 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 3: is a much more efficient, effective public service. I want 36 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: them focused on a few things. We've got to get 37 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 3: the right leaders into these big agencies and big departments, 38 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 3: the big organizations, and when you get the right leader 39 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 3: at the top, it makes all the difference through the organization. 40 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 3: I also want I'm working hard on talent development, So, 41 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: like you know, we've got probably two hundred and fifty 42 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 3: imagined fantastic public servants that you want to develop and 43 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 3: give them bigger jobs, give them opportunities to do stuff. 44 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: I think you're right. 45 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 3: We manage a lot of complexity and government is my 46 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: observation a year and a bit into this job. We 47 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: need much more simplicity means sort of sharpening up agencies 48 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 3: and portfolios and simplifying all of that. 49 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: That would be great. 50 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 3: And I think the other thing I've asked them to 51 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 3: focus on is, you know, we need to think about 52 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 3: the the media. Give me grief when I say this, 53 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 3: but I think it's right. Is that the public is 54 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 3: my customer, and you know, we need these to be 55 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 3: service led organizations that have customers, which is the New 56 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 3: Zealand public. And I think digitization actually thinking through the 57 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: customer issues as to what it's like dealing with the 58 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 3: government agency and how we use digital skills in particular 59 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 3: to do a better job of better customer service is important. 60 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 3: So you know, I think we're really aligned and I'm 61 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 3: really excited about him because. 62 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: You see. 63 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: Him and or you blowing up some government departments they 64 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: no longer. 65 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: May well be the case. 66 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 3: I think, you know, where we've got a lot of 67 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 3: small agencies that lack scale is probably too many of 68 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 3: them at times that I want every agency really focused 69 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: on what its core business actually is. I want them 70 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: to be curious, I want them to actually be creating value. 71 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 3: I want them to be very customer focused. And so yep, 72 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 3: that's one of the things I've asked them to think 73 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: through is you know, how do we get things simpler? 74 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 3: So that and then when you've got things simple, then 75 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 3: you can hold people to account for what they're there 76 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 3: to do and deliver. 77 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: Okay, So now that sort of answers my question to 78 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: the extent that the Kumar case, which is interesting, somebody 79 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: text me and said they can't have been contributing income 80 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: tax for twenty four years if they were overstars. My 81 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: argument would be, I bet you they could have. They 82 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: ran their own business because ID wouldn't share enough information 83 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: with the appropriate people, and that's how you stay in 84 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: the country illegally for twenty four years. Yeah. 85 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: Look, I think there's a whole bunch of questions that 86 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 3: that case will never be thrown up on. I've got 87 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 3: to be careful because, as you know, legally, I've got 88 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: you know, Chris Penker's associate min it's just reviewing it 89 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 3: all and it's not. 90 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: Appropriate I talk about the specifics of that case. 91 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: My bigger point is that it's really important given we've 92 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: had so many New New Zealanders come in to New 93 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: Zealand over the last twenty years who have actually done 94 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 3: the right thing and followed legal immigration processes, right, and 95 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: it's unfair when people don't do that. And that's why 96 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 3: I do want us to be much more vigilant on 97 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 3: making sure we you know, uphold legal immigration. It's really important. 98 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 3: It's it's a fairness point. That's a key principle of 99 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: being a key we as that if you've worked hard 100 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 3: and you've actually done the followed the process and come 101 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 3: to this country because you believe in it and you've 102 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: followed the law and the rules, that's that's fantastic. And 103 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: actually those people, they are often the people that are 104 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 3: most vociferous about the folk that have gone around it illegally. 105 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 3: So you know, we've got to do a better job 106 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 3: obviously making sure that we are on top of it. 107 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: And you know, I know Erko Stampa's got resources to 108 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 3: look into some of that as well to make sure 109 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 3: that's been It. 110 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: Might well be for Pink the hardest thing you ever does, 111 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: because how do you boot a country? I mean, they 112 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: deserve to be booted out because they are legals, but 113 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: the kids it's not his fault. So what do you do? 114 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, look, I mean these are classic cases of 115 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 3: illegal immigration you see all around the world. And it's 116 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: a really difficult case. There's massive amounts of emotion in it. 117 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 3: There'll be you know, you know, a whole bunch of 118 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: considerations that. 119 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 2: He's got to do. It's a really tough job, really 120 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: tough job. 121 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: But you know, the immigration officials have come to their 122 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 3: view now it finally comes to the station. 123 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: Of course, because he's got all the information, hasn't he. 124 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing stopping and making the decision literally now, 125 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: is there? Because he can do anything he wants. What 126 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: else does he need to know? 127 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got a chance to go ask some questions 128 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 3: of the officials and understand the case well and to 129 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 3: make an assessment. But yeah, he got handed I think 130 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 3: at the end of last week. So you know, he'll 131 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 3: move through it as quickly as he can. But he's 132 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: got to do it fairly. He's got a you know, 133 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 3: there's a whole bunch of implications that come from whatever 134 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 3: decision he makes, obviously, but you know, I trust him. 135 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: He's you know, it's a difficult job weighing up these 136 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 3: individual cases because everyone's you know, if it was easy, 137 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 3: it would have been sorted. 138 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: And ultimately the buck stops with him. 139 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,559 Speaker 1: I sort of I understood your defense yesterday post cab 140 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: on the boot camp thing, and you did spook it 141 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: and Chure especially spooked it and told us about all 142 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: the kids that we're going to do well, and then 143 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: suddenly we clam up shut. So I sided with the 144 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: media on that. But what they didn't do yesterday is 145 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: talk about that report and the report having read it 146 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: by and large as positive, isn't. 147 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 2: There some good stuff? 148 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: Yeah? 149 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 2: It is, It is positive. I mean there was. 150 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 3: I mean, you've got kids here, Mike, who are are 151 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 3: most serious sort of young persistent offenders. Now, they are 152 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 3: the toughest kids and they end up in a facility 153 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: like that, and that's how they got deemed to put 154 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: onto this pilot. There was lots that we did really 155 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: well on the residential facility. You know, there was lots 156 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 3: of support around the kids. Yes, you know, there was 157 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: some really good things that happened. But the bit that 158 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 3: we need to work harder on is obviously the transition 159 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: back into community. Yes, there will be some reoffending for sure. 160 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 3: I'm not going to comment on that, as I said yesterday, 161 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 3: because I think there's issues before courts and kids going 162 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: through processes and this releative small number of them. But 163 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 3: it's not fair that promise to comments on it. But 164 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 3: there were positives in that, and I'm sorry. You know, 165 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 3: people keep being on saying, you know, it's not working. Well, Actually, 166 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 3: these kids are getting a breath and an intervention and 167 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 3: a choice about how they might want to live the 168 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: rest of their life, and if they've got people around 169 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: them for the first time that are actually building them 170 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: up and getting them focused and actually spending time with them. 171 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 3: The new legislation we're putting through the house very shortly 172 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 3: on the serious young offender will just mean that we've 173 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: got the flexibility to extend the time and residential care. 174 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 3: And for some of those kids, they probably could have 175 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 3: benefited for more time and residential care when they come 176 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 3: back in the community. 177 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: You want the reports said though that I thought was obvious. 178 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: It didn't. It doesn't have enough staff. Why not? 179 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: Well, it it did have a heap of staff. 180 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean specifically, there's not enough one on one support. 181 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: And the people who were doing it I felt under pressure, 182 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: and who can blame them because old world watching it 183 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: felt under pressure to perform. They need more support, So 184 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: why why wouldn't Why wouldn't you stack it up at 185 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: the front. 186 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: Well, we did. 187 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 3: I mean, we put a lot of people and a 188 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: lot of resources in there, and I visited that. 189 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: But I appreciate the staff. 190 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 3: You know, we had expectations and intensity about that. There 191 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: were some really good things that happened. I don't think 192 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 3: we had any incidences of kid on kid violence, which 193 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 3: is you know, what happens in a lot of those 194 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 3: youth justice facilities. So there was some really good work 195 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 3: going on. I'm sure there's more that we can do 196 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 3: to support the staff in particular, and I think there's 197 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 3: a lot more we could be doing and making the 198 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: transition back into the community, which is always the hard part, 199 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 3: right But you know, I'm not giving up on these kids, Mike, 200 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: because actually we want them off community, and we want 201 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: them to take it out with a chance to reset 202 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: and also make a choice about what they want to 203 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 3: do for the next twenty years. 204 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: It's the things that's worry me. So I know it's 205 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: all politics and everything, but the amount of energy that's 206 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: been put in by some people to pile on this 207 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: thing and and to sink it before it starts is upsetting. 208 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 3: And now, listen, this is a lot to me you 209 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: don't like it, but actually I don't care, because you 210 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 3: either to do the right thing by these kids and 211 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 3: you give them a shot to churn their lives around 212 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 3: and then make the choice. 213 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: Now speaking which this committee that Goldsmith set up back 214 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: in September to look at retail crime with old Sonny 215 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: Koschl who you hired to shut them up? Where the 216 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: hell was this? I'm reading this last night. Six months 217 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: and they what's been done? 218 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 3: Well, just just just rewind a little bit, like retail 219 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 3: crime has gone up one hundred percent, it's cost us 220 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 3: over a billion dollars a year. 221 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 2: As the reality of it. 222 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: Goldsmith's formed a ministerial advisory group. He's got people from 223 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: the front line. 224 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: I just told what's happened. Tell me what you're going 225 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: to do with six months? How was it tough? 226 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 2: They're going to surface with some ideas. 227 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to surface. How have they been? 228 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 3: You watch for the rolling thunder, Mike Lusk that's coming. 229 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 3: But in all seriousness, they've actually got some pretty pragmatic, 230 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 3: common sense. 231 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: Sort of ideas. 232 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 3: And we get two or three out of that group 233 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: good and are dealing with a billion dollar problem. 234 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 2: That's going to be good. So watch this space rolling 235 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: Sundays shortly, very shortly, Michael. 236 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: Days or weeks, because I've got the headline Government quote leasures. 237 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 3: Yep, there's some very provocative things in there, but I 238 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 3: think some very pragmatic, common sense things actually from the 239 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 3: front line that would be useful. And frankly, if we 240 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 3: get two or three things out of that group that 241 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: actually we can put into the system to get the 242 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 3: settings tighter and actually cut down on retail crime and 243 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 3: the same way we're cutting down on violent crime, that's good. 244 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: Would you put peacekeepers on the ground in Ukraine? 245 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: Look, I mean, I think we've got a long way 246 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: to go. I mean we're. 247 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I get it. But I mean from our 248 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: point of view, we're very supportive of Ukraine. We are 249 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: actually in lockstep with the Brits. Actually, were we with 250 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 3: them training Ukrainian soldiers in the. 251 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: UK Why I ask the question, are there because that's 252 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: what we do well. 253 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 2: We'd be open to that, would be open to it. 254 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 3: We've got a number of peacekeeping missions around the world, 255 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 3: but for us, we stand the Ukraine. It's important. You know, 256 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 3: we have these values about nation state sovereignty, you know, 257 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 3: rule of law. We've seen a big power just use 258 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 3: its power and coming over the top of a small country. 259 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 3: And most importantly we need Ukraine and emmeriation Russia there. Well, 260 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 3: we're talking about in general across the geopolitical landscape at 261 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 3: the moment. You know, the rules based system, as we say, 262 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 3: is breaking down when you've got big countries that are 263 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 3: acting out of power, not out on the basis of rules. 264 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 3: And for small countries like New Zealand, we care deeply 265 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 3: about that stuff because those are you know, from the 266 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 3: grace of God, that could be us. 267 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: So actually that's why we have real affinity with Ukraine. 268 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: But you know we'd be open to that. 269 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: Stop eating dinner on your knee. It's not healthy. This 270 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: is the body hacker, that's right. My chrys Lux and 271 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: the prime and still Christopher Luxon for more from the 272 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: Mic Asking Breakfast. 273 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 2: Listen live to news talks. 274 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 275 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.