1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,800 Speaker 1: So the treaty principle was bill dead of the water. 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: National kept their promise. They voted the bill down and 3 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: at second reading there's been hiccoy. There's been a haka, 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: there's been singing. Yesterday a Parliamentary Privilege Committee hearing, Minister 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: for Mali Development Tama Portaker called it cremation day with 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: me is Chris Finnis in former Minister for Treaty Negotiations 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: International Government. Hello, Chris wedding Andrew your thoughts on the 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: whole thing? 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it's over. I think it's a 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: foreteight of thot's to come. I think that we'll have 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: an election campaign, presumably in twenty twenty six, when David 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 2: Assumare will raise these issues again. 13 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 1: He said it's very likely that a referendum is going 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: to be a bottom line and any coalition agreements going forward. 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: Is that a problem and as a referendum and excessively 16 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: simplistic way to deal with the issue. 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: Yes, it would be I think a prescription for disaster 18 00:00:59,040 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 2: and division. 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: Okay, the word division has been used a lot, but 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: David said it wasn't about division, it was about unity. 21 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: Has this been divisive and has it been damaging. 22 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think that the problem really is that the 23 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: principles of the treaty are quite different from the principles 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: that he was advocating in his legislation. Many of the 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: principles he advocated could ideally go in the preamble to 26 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 2: the Constitution Act or something like that, but they don't 27 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 2: reflect that the principles of the treaty. There are a 28 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: different set of principles, and I think that's really what's 29 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: irritated a few people. 30 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: And new zim First has says it wants to modify 31 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: this sort of treaty principles that we have already inside 32 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: our legislation. Is it a better way of addressing the 33 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: concerns that people have about the priority of Mali issues 34 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: in public debate? 35 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: Well, I do think there's a lot of lazy legislating 36 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: that goes on. And I was telling someone yesterday I 37 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: recall the discussion I had with Peter Sharpel's former Minister 38 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 2: of Marii Development, when I was Minister for the Arts 39 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: and was reviewing the Historic Places legislation. He wanted a 40 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: more general treaty clause and I wanted a specific one 41 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: in order to give effect of the principles of the 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: Treaty in this legislation, decision makers shall do AB and 43 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: six spell it out. So I think there's some legitimacy 44 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 2: in the point that if you're going to have a 45 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: treaty clause, there could be better definition. 46 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: All right, Chris for listen, and I thank you for 47 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: your time. This is Newstalks MB. Yes, I've got a 48 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: text with Roger. David Seymour said he will seriously consider 49 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: making a referendum on the treaty principle is a condition 50 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: for any coalition agreement with the National at the next election. 51 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: So as Christophins and Rtney says, this is not dead 52 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: in the water. I said dead in the water at 53 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: the beginning. It's not. It's going to keep on going 54 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: and that's for sure. 55 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: For more from Early edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live 56 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: to News Talks it be from five am weekdays, or 57 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.