1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,973 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News talks it B. 2 00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,733 --> 00:00:19,733 Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 4 00:00:19,773 --> 00:00:25,293 Speaker 1: the information, all the debates us now the Layton Smith 5 00:00:25,413 --> 00:00:27,653 Speaker 1: podcast cow it by news talks it B. 6 00:00:28,253 --> 00:00:31,573 Speaker 2: Welcome to podcasts two hundred and seventy five for March twelve, 7 00:00:31,653 --> 00:00:36,693 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Rodney Hyde, ex politician, is fighting a battle. 8 00:00:37,293 --> 00:00:40,333 Speaker 2: It began a couple of years ago and it continues today. 9 00:00:40,413 --> 00:00:42,533 Speaker 2: In fact, we spoke with him a couple of years 10 00:00:42,533 --> 00:00:46,093 Speaker 2: back and he outlined the foundation of this. It involves 11 00:00:46,133 --> 00:00:50,453 Speaker 2: the relationship and sexuality education curriculum being taught in his 12 00:00:50,613 --> 00:00:53,053 Speaker 2: daughter's school, but not just there, It's being taught in 13 00:00:53,093 --> 00:00:56,093 Speaker 2: all schools to different levels. Rodney is not the only 14 00:00:56,173 --> 00:00:59,973 Speaker 2: parent unhappy about what's being taught, but he stands almost 15 00:01:00,013 --> 00:01:03,133 Speaker 2: alone in trying to address it. It is a matter 16 00:01:03,333 --> 00:01:08,173 Speaker 2: for him of principle. But we also discuss other matters, 17 00:01:08,413 --> 00:01:12,733 Speaker 2: important ones like wocism, the rbn Z and Adrian Order, 18 00:01:12,773 --> 00:01:17,133 Speaker 2: NATS and pm luxon economic growth and other things. And 19 00:01:17,173 --> 00:01:20,533 Speaker 2: I learned something about mister Hyde of which I was unaware. 20 00:01:21,413 --> 00:01:24,173 Speaker 2: But first if I may a word of warning to 21 00:01:24,653 --> 00:01:28,733 Speaker 2: local pundits regarding Donald Trump. Many pundits are putting the 22 00:01:28,773 --> 00:01:32,053 Speaker 2: boot into Trump whenever they get the chance. I'd like 23 00:01:32,133 --> 00:01:35,053 Speaker 2: to read you a small paragraph of something that is 24 00:01:35,213 --> 00:01:38,293 Speaker 2: yet to come. Trump's out of the deal is the 25 00:01:38,333 --> 00:01:41,813 Speaker 2: most democratic thing we've seen since the experts told us 26 00:01:41,853 --> 00:01:46,613 Speaker 2: to trust the science. Einstein reportedly said that one fact, 27 00:01:46,773 --> 00:01:50,293 Speaker 2: rather than a hundred experts, could prove him wrong. Trump 28 00:01:50,373 --> 00:01:53,173 Speaker 2: has done in less than two months what thousands of 29 00:01:53,213 --> 00:01:55,533 Speaker 2: experts have failed to do in the years. And that's 30 00:01:55,533 --> 00:01:58,053 Speaker 2: a fact. It occurs to me that those who are 31 00:01:58,493 --> 00:02:00,973 Speaker 2: rushing at every opportunity to, like I say, put the 32 00:02:00,973 --> 00:02:04,573 Speaker 2: boot in, might end up eating that boot. As I 33 00:02:04,653 --> 00:02:08,573 Speaker 2: record this, there is a flash come up up on 34 00:02:08,613 --> 00:02:12,133 Speaker 2: my phone from Greg Sheridan in The Australian. Could it 35 00:02:12,173 --> 00:02:15,373 Speaker 2: be that Trump is actually going to produce a decent 36 00:02:15,493 --> 00:02:20,933 Speaker 2: outcome in Ukraine? After all? And I say never underestimates 37 00:02:21,013 --> 00:02:24,773 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, Speaking of whom, let me make reference to 38 00:02:25,773 --> 00:02:30,293 Speaker 2: something else in the same stable. For years, American politics 39 00:02:30,333 --> 00:02:33,773 Speaker 2: has been defined by the advance of an enemy variously 40 00:02:33,853 --> 00:02:38,693 Speaker 2: labeled wocism, DEI, the civil rights regime, the deep state, 41 00:02:39,053 --> 00:02:44,693 Speaker 2: and more. And the occasional, usually ineffective pushback of Republicans. 42 00:02:45,173 --> 00:02:47,973 Speaker 2: I'm quoting this for a reason, not just to talk 43 00:02:47,973 --> 00:02:51,653 Speaker 2: about American politics, but to talk about my reference to 44 00:02:51,693 --> 00:02:54,933 Speaker 2: talk about New Zealand politics, because if you listen to 45 00:02:55,213 --> 00:02:58,973 Speaker 2: what I'm about to quote, you can replace America and 46 00:02:59,213 --> 00:03:04,013 Speaker 2: Republicans with New Zealand and Nationals. With the return of 47 00:03:04,013 --> 00:03:07,133 Speaker 2: Donald Trump to the White House, that enemy seems, for 48 00:03:07,253 --> 00:03:10,653 Speaker 2: the first time in living memory, to be genuinely in retreat. 49 00:03:11,013 --> 00:03:16,213 Speaker 2: Daniel Horowitz observes that Republican leadership of failing or refusing 50 00:03:16,373 --> 00:03:20,973 Speaker 2: to capitalize on Trump's momentum, and Horowitz warns that this 51 00:03:21,053 --> 00:03:24,973 Speaker 2: will give the woke regime time and space to reorganize 52 00:03:25,053 --> 00:03:28,373 Speaker 2: and prepare its next assault. We have, he says, an 53 00:03:28,453 --> 00:03:32,053 Speaker 2: historic opportunity to deep six the woke regime, but that 54 00:03:32,093 --> 00:03:35,773 Speaker 2: potential has not yet become kinetic. I love that word. 55 00:03:36,093 --> 00:03:40,973 Speaker 2: If Republicans are not prevented from working their controlled opposition magic, 56 00:03:41,453 --> 00:03:46,293 Speaker 2: the forces of wokeness will regroup, reload, and reconstitute under 57 00:03:46,293 --> 00:03:49,773 Speaker 2: a different name. Remember when we killed common Core last decade, 58 00:03:50,213 --> 00:03:55,453 Speaker 2: common Core education, It's simply reconstituted under a more subtle, subversive, 59 00:03:55,533 --> 00:04:00,813 Speaker 2: and nameless construction. Democrats find themselves over extended politically on 60 00:04:00,933 --> 00:04:06,173 Speaker 2: issues like illegal immigration, affirmative action, racial politics, and gender ideology. 61 00:04:06,813 --> 00:04:10,293 Speaker 2: An intrepid Republican Party would go in for the kill, 62 00:04:10,813 --> 00:04:15,693 Speaker 2: end those policies and plow with salt over their graves. Unfortunately, 63 00:04:15,733 --> 00:04:19,653 Speaker 2: we're watching in real time as proposals in state legislatures 64 00:04:19,973 --> 00:04:25,373 Speaker 2: to categorically ban illegal immigration, end all forms of affirmative action, 65 00:04:25,813 --> 00:04:29,893 Speaker 2: and extirpate any reference to things like race, gender, and 66 00:04:29,973 --> 00:04:33,573 Speaker 2: global warming in state policy are being defeated by the 67 00:04:33,613 --> 00:04:39,693 Speaker 2: Republican Party. GOP legislators are pushing to only deport criminal aliens, 68 00:04:39,733 --> 00:04:42,813 Speaker 2: to focus only on men in female sports and not 69 00:04:42,973 --> 00:04:47,693 Speaker 2: on the core of transgender insanity, and to continue racial 70 00:04:47,733 --> 00:04:51,453 Speaker 2: preferences at some level in state governments when Republicans are 71 00:04:51,453 --> 00:04:54,733 Speaker 2: in power. When Republicans are in power, they refuse to 72 00:04:54,813 --> 00:04:59,093 Speaker 2: wield it as Democrats do. This gives the woke regime 73 00:04:59,173 --> 00:05:02,373 Speaker 2: time to retreat behind safe lines and reconstitute the same 74 00:05:02,493 --> 00:05:08,613 Speaker 2: vision under slightly different policies, parlance, and presentation. They will 75 00:05:08,933 --> 00:05:12,733 Speaker 2: return now. I think you get the gist that the 76 00:05:12,853 --> 00:05:17,333 Speaker 2: conservative parties also called conservative parties, are full of verbiage 77 00:05:17,533 --> 00:05:20,413 Speaker 2: that they don't necessarily apply to practicality, and I think 78 00:05:20,413 --> 00:05:23,893 Speaker 2: we're experiencing some considerable bit of that in this country 79 00:05:24,133 --> 00:05:27,733 Speaker 2: at the moment. Now speaking of moments, in just a moment, 80 00:05:28,333 --> 00:05:40,453 Speaker 2: Rodney Hyde Leverrix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to 81 00:05:40,533 --> 00:05:44,733 Speaker 2: the highest quality. Leverix relieves hay fever and skin allergies 82 00:05:45,053 --> 00:05:49,093 Speaker 2: or itchy skin. It's a dual action antihistamine and has 83 00:05:49,173 --> 00:05:54,773 Speaker 2: a unique nasal decongestant action. It's fast acting for fast relief, 84 00:05:55,213 --> 00:05:57,933 Speaker 2: and it works in under an hour and lasts for 85 00:05:58,053 --> 00:06:01,453 Speaker 2: over twenty four hours. Leverrix is a tiny tablet that 86 00:06:01,573 --> 00:06:05,613 Speaker 2: unblocks the nose, deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. 87 00:06:05,893 --> 00:06:10,133 Speaker 2: Leverrix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. 88 00:06:10,653 --> 00:06:13,813 Speaker 2: So next time you're in need of an effective antihistamine, 89 00:06:14,213 --> 00:06:17,453 Speaker 2: call into the pharmacy and ask for Leverix l e 90 00:06:17,693 --> 00:06:22,853 Speaker 2: v Rix Leverix and always read the label, takes directed 91 00:06:23,093 --> 00:06:27,453 Speaker 2: and if symptoms persist, see your health professional. Farmer Broker Auckland, 92 00:06:51,333 --> 00:06:55,333 Speaker 2: I've known Roddy Hyde for about thirty years. I remember, 93 00:06:55,373 --> 00:06:58,413 Speaker 2: first of all going to his house, which wasn't that 94 00:06:58,453 --> 00:07:00,853 Speaker 2: far from where I was living at the time, and 95 00:07:00,933 --> 00:07:02,693 Speaker 2: I went to visit him in his house. There was 96 00:07:02,693 --> 00:07:04,733 Speaker 2: a reason for it, although that escapes me, and I'm 97 00:07:04,733 --> 00:07:06,973 Speaker 2: sure that he won't remember, but that was the first 98 00:07:06,973 --> 00:07:09,653 Speaker 2: occasion I believed that we met. But we've known each 99 00:07:09,653 --> 00:07:11,933 Speaker 2: other for a long time, and I think I will 100 00:07:12,133 --> 00:07:15,853 Speaker 2: credit myself with this and say that we have considerable 101 00:07:15,933 --> 00:07:21,013 Speaker 2: respect each for the other. Would that be right, mister Hyde. 102 00:07:21,493 --> 00:07:23,613 Speaker 3: Total late and total respect. 103 00:07:24,413 --> 00:07:27,293 Speaker 4: That said, I have a great deal of respect for 104 00:07:27,373 --> 00:07:31,613 Speaker 4: almost everyone. People that do a good job, are competent 105 00:07:32,173 --> 00:07:37,653 Speaker 4: and have regard for others earn my respect. And so 106 00:07:37,893 --> 00:07:40,093 Speaker 4: I have a great deal of respect for you because 107 00:07:40,653 --> 00:07:44,933 Speaker 4: I always realized you were a very good broadcaster and 108 00:07:45,053 --> 00:07:48,373 Speaker 4: people that are good at their job and pressed me. 109 00:07:49,133 --> 00:07:52,933 Speaker 2: The reason for this conversation was triggered by something that 110 00:07:53,013 --> 00:07:59,853 Speaker 2: you sent me with regard to relationship and sexuality education curriculum. Now, 111 00:08:00,253 --> 00:08:03,413 Speaker 2: before we get onto that direct, tell us all, because 112 00:08:03,453 --> 00:08:06,693 Speaker 2: plenty of us either will only have a touch of 113 00:08:06,733 --> 00:08:10,853 Speaker 2: knowledge on it or at all, tell us how the 114 00:08:10,893 --> 00:08:15,133 Speaker 2: boards of school school boards? What are they responsible for 115 00:08:15,733 --> 00:08:16,533 Speaker 2: in their school? 116 00:08:16,973 --> 00:08:19,213 Speaker 3: Oh? Wow, well, the running of the school. 117 00:08:19,493 --> 00:08:23,133 Speaker 4: But one of the strange things is one of the 118 00:08:23,173 --> 00:08:29,293 Speaker 4: particular functions are given, is they are given responsibility for 119 00:08:30,013 --> 00:08:34,733 Speaker 4: reproduction and sex education, and they specifically have to consult 120 00:08:34,933 --> 00:08:37,653 Speaker 4: with the parents the community of the school which is 121 00:08:37,693 --> 00:08:41,973 Speaker 4: identified as the parents, on what that should be and 122 00:08:42,093 --> 00:08:45,213 Speaker 4: then come up with it, and they have to consult 123 00:08:45,893 --> 00:08:46,933 Speaker 4: every two years. 124 00:08:47,933 --> 00:08:50,013 Speaker 3: Funny enough, none of the schools. 125 00:08:49,653 --> 00:08:53,973 Speaker 2: Do, none of them, not that I know of, And. 126 00:08:53,933 --> 00:09:00,053 Speaker 4: The boards are totally unaware of the sex education occurring 127 00:09:00,093 --> 00:09:05,213 Speaker 4: in the school and my observation and experience, and it's 128 00:09:05,853 --> 00:09:09,973 Speaker 4: been happening oftentimes without even the principles being particularly aware 129 00:09:09,973 --> 00:09:12,853 Speaker 4: of it. It's the most extraordinary situation. 130 00:09:13,493 --> 00:09:18,653 Speaker 2: The last time we spoke, which was twenty three, so 131 00:09:18,733 --> 00:09:22,133 Speaker 2: a good two years ago, we discussed, amongst other things, 132 00:09:22,453 --> 00:09:27,733 Speaker 2: an issue involving your daughter, Yes, and there was quite 133 00:09:27,733 --> 00:09:32,093 Speaker 2: some reaction to it from my perspective. Now it has 134 00:09:32,133 --> 00:09:36,253 Speaker 2: advanced since then. There are two videos that you've posted 135 00:09:36,293 --> 00:09:38,693 Speaker 2: that people can can see, but we'll get to that 136 00:09:39,093 --> 00:09:41,813 Speaker 2: a little later. But that's what you sent me, That's 137 00:09:41,813 --> 00:09:46,333 Speaker 2: what I watched, and I was very keen to discuss 138 00:09:46,373 --> 00:09:49,253 Speaker 2: it with you. But we will get onto some on 139 00:09:49,293 --> 00:09:54,293 Speaker 2: a number of other topics. Before we finished this discussion, 140 00:09:54,653 --> 00:09:58,373 Speaker 2: you did these two videos based on the fact that 141 00:09:58,453 --> 00:10:01,573 Speaker 2: you decided that you wanted to address the school board 142 00:10:01,733 --> 00:10:07,653 Speaker 2: on this subject, Relationship and Sexuality education otherwise known as RS. 143 00:10:08,373 --> 00:10:10,013 Speaker 2: How did How did that go for you? 144 00:10:11,293 --> 00:10:13,053 Speaker 3: And look great? It took me. 145 00:10:14,413 --> 00:10:17,373 Speaker 4: My daughter goes to Wakatipo High School. It took me 146 00:10:17,453 --> 00:10:21,973 Speaker 4: nine months to get before the board emailing them. 147 00:10:22,933 --> 00:10:26,493 Speaker 3: I did get to meet the chair, you know, and all. 148 00:10:26,373 --> 00:10:30,413 Speaker 4: Of these people I got to say, are lovely, and 149 00:10:30,453 --> 00:10:33,013 Speaker 4: it's a great school, and it's a well run school. 150 00:10:33,333 --> 00:10:34,853 Speaker 3: And this is actually happening in. 151 00:10:34,813 --> 00:10:39,373 Speaker 4: Every high school, so it's not like Wakatippu is a typical. 152 00:10:39,853 --> 00:10:43,493 Speaker 4: But the background is I got an email to say 153 00:10:43,573 --> 00:10:46,253 Speaker 4: that my daughter would be engaged in this being taught 154 00:10:46,333 --> 00:10:52,773 Speaker 4: this RC reproduction sex education, and the email implied that 155 00:10:52,813 --> 00:10:55,653 Speaker 4: it was compulsory, and I knew that it wasn't. 156 00:10:56,013 --> 00:10:58,773 Speaker 3: It's up to a parent to agree. 157 00:10:58,613 --> 00:11:02,493 Speaker 4: And so I asked to see it because I thought 158 00:11:02,533 --> 00:11:05,253 Speaker 4: I can't agree. U, Yes, I see it. To be fair, 159 00:11:05,293 --> 00:11:08,133 Speaker 4: I had a fair inkling because of our earlier interview. 160 00:11:08,453 --> 00:11:10,933 Speaker 4: My daughter was younger, I had become alarmed at what 161 00:11:11,013 --> 00:11:14,493 Speaker 4: had happened, so I was well attuned to it. I 162 00:11:14,653 --> 00:11:17,533 Speaker 4: also joined a great group called let kids be kids, 163 00:11:18,213 --> 00:11:21,173 Speaker 4: and so we've been very active at trying to discover 164 00:11:21,293 --> 00:11:26,333 Speaker 4: what's happening in the schools and also empowering parents. So anyway, 165 00:11:26,373 --> 00:11:30,013 Speaker 4: I wrote to the head of physical education in the 166 00:11:30,053 --> 00:11:32,813 Speaker 4: school and said, look, this is great. I'd like to 167 00:11:32,853 --> 00:11:37,333 Speaker 4: see what you're going to be showing my daughter, because 168 00:11:37,373 --> 00:11:40,013 Speaker 4: they said they had this curriculum, they had videos, and 169 00:11:40,093 --> 00:11:44,893 Speaker 4: they had of course materials. This is the extraordinary. But 170 00:11:45,853 --> 00:11:48,893 Speaker 4: the teacher came back. My daughter's thirteen. The teacher came 171 00:11:48,933 --> 00:11:55,533 Speaker 4: back and said, you can't have it because it's intellectual 172 00:11:55,613 --> 00:12:00,293 Speaker 4: property that we have developed, and also the booklets that 173 00:12:00,333 --> 00:12:06,853 Speaker 4: we use are copyright so that I internally I didn't 174 00:12:06,893 --> 00:12:11,013 Speaker 4: do anything, but I went off my head because I 175 00:12:11,133 --> 00:12:14,653 Speaker 4: knew that I had to give consent to this. I 176 00:12:14,733 --> 00:12:17,813 Speaker 4: had the opportunity to refuse, but I couldn't make an 177 00:12:17,853 --> 00:12:20,053 Speaker 4: informed choice, and of course this triggered me over the 178 00:12:20,093 --> 00:12:23,293 Speaker 4: whole COVID thing. I couldn't make an informed choice for 179 00:12:23,373 --> 00:12:25,693 Speaker 4: my own daughter, and I wasn't allowed to see the 180 00:12:25,773 --> 00:12:30,293 Speaker 4: material on the subject that she was to teach or 181 00:12:30,333 --> 00:12:34,813 Speaker 4: was to be taught. I ended up buying it. Family Planning, 182 00:12:34,853 --> 00:12:37,733 Speaker 4: who now have a long married name, produced it. And 183 00:12:37,773 --> 00:12:40,493 Speaker 4: I bought for her, which was year nine. I bought 184 00:12:40,533 --> 00:12:44,053 Speaker 4: that the manual, two hundred six pages, only cost five dollars. 185 00:12:44,693 --> 00:12:47,493 Speaker 4: I bought it and I read it, and I have 186 00:12:47,573 --> 00:12:53,013 Speaker 4: to say latent nothing prepared me for the horror of it. 187 00:12:53,013 --> 00:12:59,053 Speaker 4: It was absolutely horrific. I could not believe it, and 188 00:12:59,533 --> 00:13:02,293 Speaker 4: I wrote to the principle which you required to do 189 00:13:02,333 --> 00:13:04,933 Speaker 4: and pulled my daughter out of the class, which is 190 00:13:04,973 --> 00:13:08,133 Speaker 4: no drama. They were doing their rotation. She just did 191 00:13:08,133 --> 00:13:11,893 Speaker 4: a rotation or something or other. But then I thought 192 00:13:12,173 --> 00:13:16,813 Speaker 4: this is crazy because I couldn't see how any sensible 193 00:13:16,933 --> 00:13:21,053 Speaker 4: person still can't could agree to teaching this to a 194 00:13:21,093 --> 00:13:22,573 Speaker 4: thirteen year old girl or boy. 195 00:13:22,853 --> 00:13:26,133 Speaker 2: Now stop there for a moment. Was she the only 196 00:13:26,173 --> 00:13:28,413 Speaker 2: one who was taken out? 197 00:13:29,053 --> 00:13:31,573 Speaker 3: I don't know the answer to that. I suspect. 198 00:13:31,653 --> 00:13:35,733 Speaker 2: So do you know any parents who are aware of 199 00:13:35,773 --> 00:13:39,613 Speaker 2: what's in Wakatipu at the school? Do you know any 200 00:13:39,653 --> 00:13:42,173 Speaker 2: parents who are concerned about it? 201 00:13:43,293 --> 00:13:45,453 Speaker 3: I know of about two, and there two that I've 202 00:13:45,493 --> 00:13:45,973 Speaker 3: spoken to. 203 00:13:46,493 --> 00:13:50,453 Speaker 2: None the others aren't concerned because they don't know, or 204 00:13:50,493 --> 00:13:54,493 Speaker 2: because they don't care, or they approve both both. 205 00:13:56,493 --> 00:14:00,253 Speaker 4: It's always a touchy subject for parents with their children, 206 00:14:01,173 --> 00:14:05,053 Speaker 4: and so they quite like ducking responsibility and saying, oh, well, 207 00:14:05,053 --> 00:14:06,133 Speaker 4: the school can do all that. 208 00:14:07,653 --> 00:14:08,053 Speaker 1: Bearah. 209 00:14:08,453 --> 00:14:11,053 Speaker 4: We have spoken to parents. I have spoken to parents. 210 00:14:11,373 --> 00:14:14,093 Speaker 4: Some are okay with it, and what you might call 211 00:14:14,133 --> 00:14:17,813 Speaker 4: permissive parents who literally have the high school children having 212 00:14:17,813 --> 00:14:21,933 Speaker 4: their boyfriend and girlfriends over to stay the night. They're 213 00:14:21,933 --> 00:14:26,373 Speaker 4: comfortable with it. The older parents that I know aren't. 214 00:14:26,973 --> 00:14:29,733 Speaker 4: I find it a very hard subject to bring up 215 00:14:30,093 --> 00:14:33,893 Speaker 4: with parents, because you know, you've got to know someone 216 00:14:33,933 --> 00:14:34,773 Speaker 4: pretty well to have the. 217 00:14:34,773 --> 00:14:36,093 Speaker 3: Discussion we're about to have. 218 00:14:36,733 --> 00:14:40,093 Speaker 4: So I actually don't know the layer of the land 219 00:14:40,173 --> 00:14:45,533 Speaker 4: on it, because to me, any parent would be mortified 220 00:14:45,573 --> 00:14:48,533 Speaker 4: by it and look to be fair later. And when 221 00:14:48,613 --> 00:14:51,253 Speaker 4: I sit down with any parents and explain it to them, 222 00:14:51,253 --> 00:14:54,093 Speaker 4: they are absolutely mortified, and they're firing a letter off 223 00:14:54,133 --> 00:14:57,293 Speaker 4: to the principle to pull their child out. It's that bad. 224 00:14:58,293 --> 00:15:02,293 Speaker 4: So but they don't know, and the board don't know. 225 00:15:02,973 --> 00:15:07,013 Speaker 4: I met with the board chairman, lovely guy lawyer director, 226 00:15:07,813 --> 00:15:11,013 Speaker 4: and he he's not down into the weeds of what's 227 00:15:11,093 --> 00:15:13,773 Speaker 4: taught in the school. He's busy worrying about buildings and 228 00:15:13,853 --> 00:15:19,013 Speaker 4: fundraising and employment and the big strategic issues of the school, 229 00:15:19,053 --> 00:15:23,373 Speaker 4: like he should so he wasn't aware of what was 230 00:15:23,413 --> 00:15:25,813 Speaker 4: being taught, and he's got children at the school what 231 00:15:25,973 --> 00:15:29,653 Speaker 4: was being taught in sex education. But when I explained 232 00:15:29,653 --> 00:15:32,253 Speaker 4: it to him, he didn't take it upon himself to 233 00:15:32,293 --> 00:15:35,693 Speaker 4: do anything about it. So I resolved that the board 234 00:15:35,813 --> 00:15:39,413 Speaker 4: was a representative of parents and that if I could 235 00:15:39,453 --> 00:15:42,733 Speaker 4: have ten minutes in front of them. 236 00:15:42,093 --> 00:15:45,213 Speaker 3: And highlight that a. 237 00:15:44,573 --> 00:15:47,373 Speaker 4: This was something that they had to sign up to 238 00:15:48,253 --> 00:15:50,413 Speaker 4: be that there was something they had to consult with 239 00:15:50,573 --> 00:15:54,013 Speaker 4: parents over and see here's a little bit of the 240 00:15:54,053 --> 00:15:59,013 Speaker 4: content that you have supposedly agreed to that I would 241 00:15:59,013 --> 00:16:04,733 Speaker 4: get an instant reaction. The principal and the chair were 242 00:16:04,853 --> 00:16:09,253 Speaker 4: very anxious that I not present to the board, and 243 00:16:09,333 --> 00:16:13,853 Speaker 4: so it took me nine months to finally get ten minutes. 244 00:16:14,253 --> 00:16:16,173 Speaker 2: Why do you think that they didn't want you to 245 00:16:16,733 --> 00:16:18,093 Speaker 2: make a presentation. 246 00:16:18,893 --> 00:16:22,653 Speaker 4: Because I believe the board would have said, we're what 247 00:16:23,973 --> 00:16:24,733 Speaker 4: we're doing this? 248 00:16:26,013 --> 00:16:28,653 Speaker 3: I think the board would be alarmed. 249 00:16:28,733 --> 00:16:31,773 Speaker 2: Would you Is there a chance you might be surprised 250 00:16:31,813 --> 00:16:32,213 Speaker 2: that they're not? 251 00:16:33,613 --> 00:16:33,973 Speaker 3: Yes? 252 00:16:34,813 --> 00:16:39,453 Speaker 4: I thought about that too, and that always perplexes me 253 00:16:41,493 --> 00:16:47,293 Speaker 4: that we have gone so far down to destroying our 254 00:16:47,413 --> 00:16:55,373 Speaker 4: children's innocence that a parent wouldn't care that a male 255 00:16:56,013 --> 00:17:01,173 Speaker 4: young teacher is standing in front of a class of 256 00:17:01,293 --> 00:17:05,133 Speaker 4: thirteen year old boys and girls and teaching them how 257 00:17:05,133 --> 00:17:08,973 Speaker 4: to do anal sex and that's something you know, that's 258 00:17:08,973 --> 00:17:14,733 Speaker 4: in the curriculum that's approved. The principle said to me 259 00:17:14,933 --> 00:17:20,573 Speaker 4: that the particular teacher, mister King, wasn't showing that video, 260 00:17:21,133 --> 00:17:24,053 Speaker 4: But that to me wasn't the point, because the board 261 00:17:24,173 --> 00:17:26,213 Speaker 4: had approved that video to be shown. 262 00:17:26,493 --> 00:17:30,413 Speaker 2: If the board itself had approved the video, then obviously 263 00:17:30,453 --> 00:17:31,613 Speaker 2: they know what's going on. 264 00:17:31,933 --> 00:17:32,973 Speaker 3: No, they have no clue. 265 00:17:33,173 --> 00:17:34,813 Speaker 2: They have, But how would they have no clue if 266 00:17:34,813 --> 00:17:37,973 Speaker 2: they if they know that that's what he You know, they. 267 00:17:39,173 --> 00:17:40,653 Speaker 3: It's never been through the board. 268 00:17:41,693 --> 00:17:45,493 Speaker 2: You mean to say they've ticked it off without without any. 269 00:17:45,813 --> 00:17:48,293 Speaker 4: I would say they've never even ticked it. That's the 270 00:17:48,333 --> 00:17:50,453 Speaker 4: extraordinary thing of what's happening in every score. 271 00:17:51,093 --> 00:17:53,773 Speaker 2: All right, let's go to the You you turned up 272 00:17:53,813 --> 00:17:57,573 Speaker 2: to make this commentary, Yes to the board. 273 00:17:58,493 --> 00:17:58,813 Speaker 3: Yes? 274 00:17:59,133 --> 00:18:05,093 Speaker 4: And what happened, Well, the way it went was Penny Marie, 275 00:18:05,173 --> 00:18:08,653 Speaker 4: who's a lovely lady. A couple of years ago, she 276 00:18:08,773 --> 00:18:12,773 Speaker 4: presented to her board on the same subject and she 277 00:18:12,933 --> 00:18:18,853 Speaker 4: recorded herself and it went viral because literally parents said, 278 00:18:19,373 --> 00:18:22,413 Speaker 4: oh my goodness, I had no idea and send it. 279 00:18:22,493 --> 00:18:24,373 Speaker 3: Out of their friends on Facebook and stuff. 280 00:18:25,813 --> 00:18:27,853 Speaker 4: And so I resolved that if I was going to 281 00:18:27,853 --> 00:18:31,093 Speaker 4: get ten minutes in front of the board, I should 282 00:18:31,373 --> 00:18:35,813 Speaker 4: record it because that would give me an opportunity to 283 00:18:35,933 --> 00:18:40,533 Speaker 4: explain to parents this is what's happening, and doing it 284 00:18:40,573 --> 00:18:42,253 Speaker 4: in front of the board would sort of give it 285 00:18:42,333 --> 00:18:47,653 Speaker 4: that impture of authority. And so I wanted to likewise 286 00:18:47,693 --> 00:18:52,653 Speaker 4: record my ten minute presentation. I knew I could because 287 00:18:52,733 --> 00:18:56,653 Speaker 4: a school board is a meeting in public. It's not 288 00:18:56,693 --> 00:19:00,293 Speaker 4: a public meeting called in a hall, but it's a 289 00:19:00,333 --> 00:19:04,893 Speaker 4: meeting in public that anyone can attend. You don't get 290 00:19:04,893 --> 00:19:07,573 Speaker 4: speaking rights, you have to seek those. But I had 291 00:19:07,613 --> 00:19:11,653 Speaker 4: thought speaking rights and had them. And so literally five 292 00:19:11,733 --> 00:19:14,773 Speaker 4: hundred parents could turn up to a board meeting, the 293 00:19:14,853 --> 00:19:18,533 Speaker 4: media can turn up and record it because it's a 294 00:19:18,573 --> 00:19:19,613 Speaker 4: meeting in public, that. 295 00:19:21,413 --> 00:19:22,853 Speaker 3: It's a public enterprise. 296 00:19:23,293 --> 00:19:26,053 Speaker 4: And to double check that I was on good ground, 297 00:19:26,973 --> 00:19:29,973 Speaker 4: I emailed what is called the New Zealand school Board 298 00:19:30,093 --> 00:19:35,533 Speaker 4: of Trustees Association, and they are an outfit that advised 299 00:19:35,573 --> 00:19:39,933 Speaker 4: school boards on governance. So they are the experts of 300 00:19:40,093 --> 00:19:46,053 Speaker 4: interpreting the legislation and the responsibilities of a school board. 301 00:19:47,413 --> 00:19:50,773 Speaker 4: And they assured me that I had every right to 302 00:19:50,933 --> 00:19:54,853 Speaker 4: record my presentation, but they said it would be a 303 00:19:54,893 --> 00:19:56,293 Speaker 4: courtesy to. 304 00:19:56,333 --> 00:19:57,053 Speaker 3: Let the school know. 305 00:19:57,693 --> 00:20:00,053 Speaker 4: So I emailed the school the week before I was 306 00:20:00,093 --> 00:20:02,853 Speaker 4: to turn up that I would be recording my presentation, 307 00:20:04,573 --> 00:20:07,773 Speaker 4: and I told that to the principal and to the chair. 308 00:20:09,173 --> 00:20:12,413 Speaker 4: On the day that I was to present, I got 309 00:20:12,413 --> 00:20:15,653 Speaker 4: an email from the lovely principle saying that I wouldn't 310 00:20:15,693 --> 00:20:18,453 Speaker 4: be recording it, and I emailed him back and said 311 00:20:18,493 --> 00:20:20,213 Speaker 4: I would be, and that's. 312 00:20:20,053 --> 00:20:22,933 Speaker 3: Where it sort of hung. Then I got an email. 313 00:20:23,053 --> 00:20:26,133 Speaker 4: Just as I was leaving actually to go into the meeting, 314 00:20:26,453 --> 00:20:31,613 Speaker 4: I got an email from the board cheer, citing a 315 00:20:31,693 --> 00:20:35,413 Speaker 4: section of the Act that the board had board powers, 316 00:20:36,333 --> 00:20:39,373 Speaker 4: saying that he was exercising these board powers to prevent 317 00:20:39,453 --> 00:20:43,293 Speaker 4: me from recording it, and also that he was claiming 318 00:20:43,373 --> 00:20:48,733 Speaker 4: that the board members had privacy rights and that my 319 00:20:48,893 --> 00:20:53,013 Speaker 4: recording myself would interfere with their privacy. I quickly rang 320 00:20:53,373 --> 00:20:57,893 Speaker 4: the school Board of Trustees and look, I don't want 321 00:20:57,893 --> 00:20:59,613 Speaker 4: to get the guide into trouble. But he almost sell 322 00:20:59,653 --> 00:21:03,653 Speaker 4: off his cheer laughing. Because it was this idea that 323 00:21:03,693 --> 00:21:08,213 Speaker 4: you could use the legislation to prevent having a public meeting, 324 00:21:09,373 --> 00:21:13,053 Speaker 4: and the idea that you are an officer on a 325 00:21:13,053 --> 00:21:16,733 Speaker 4: crown entity, which is what a school is, and claimed privacy, 326 00:21:16,813 --> 00:21:20,573 Speaker 4: so you in a meeting in public, you can't be 327 00:21:20,853 --> 00:21:24,093 Speaker 4: said that you were there. So I knew I was 328 00:21:24,253 --> 00:21:27,693 Speaker 4: absolutely right. So I turned up to the meeting. The 329 00:21:27,693 --> 00:21:31,173 Speaker 4: principal came running out and he said that you're recording it. 330 00:21:31,213 --> 00:21:32,933 Speaker 3: I said, of course I am. I told you I was. 331 00:21:32,973 --> 00:21:35,373 Speaker 4: He said, well, it's against the tea hunger of the school, 332 00:21:36,693 --> 00:21:40,373 Speaker 4: the tea hunger, and that was another triggering thing for 333 00:21:40,453 --> 00:21:42,373 Speaker 4: me because I said, look, you can't just make out 334 00:21:42,613 --> 00:21:46,293 Speaker 4: rules and I'm going to record it. So he scuttled 335 00:21:46,333 --> 00:21:48,493 Speaker 4: back into the meeting, and then the chair came out 336 00:21:48,533 --> 00:21:50,813 Speaker 4: and he was explaining to me that that had legal 337 00:21:50,853 --> 00:21:53,133 Speaker 4: advice and I wasn't to record and they were in 338 00:21:53,173 --> 00:21:57,053 Speaker 4: their rights, and I said, I'm going to record and 339 00:21:57,133 --> 00:22:00,813 Speaker 4: i'll record you throwing me out if you want. Then 340 00:22:00,893 --> 00:22:03,373 Speaker 4: they decided that the issue was he was a sixteen 341 00:22:03,413 --> 00:22:07,053 Speaker 4: year old student representative on the board. They wouldn't want 342 00:22:07,253 --> 00:22:09,933 Speaker 4: me to be discussing sex education in front of her. 343 00:22:11,413 --> 00:22:13,533 Speaker 4: Of course, the irony that I was talking about what 344 00:22:13,653 --> 00:22:18,133 Speaker 4: they were teaching a thirty year old. Anyway, they wouldn't 345 00:22:18,213 --> 00:22:21,413 Speaker 4: let me record, and I said, well, I'd like to 346 00:22:21,453 --> 00:22:24,853 Speaker 4: sit in on the meeting anyway, because I didn't want 347 00:22:24,853 --> 00:22:28,813 Speaker 4: to go away with my tail between my legs. And 348 00:22:28,853 --> 00:22:32,053 Speaker 4: so I went into the meeting and I sat there 349 00:22:32,573 --> 00:22:34,853 Speaker 4: and it was literally just around a table. 350 00:22:35,213 --> 00:22:37,213 Speaker 3: There was no room for members of the public. 351 00:22:37,573 --> 00:22:39,293 Speaker 4: But I sat there for an hour and a half 352 00:22:39,333 --> 00:22:42,493 Speaker 4: and listened to it, and halfway through they broke and 353 00:22:42,573 --> 00:22:46,093 Speaker 4: had pizza, and I introduced myself as best I could 354 00:22:46,093 --> 00:22:48,613 Speaker 4: to the board who were It was very awkward for 355 00:22:48,893 --> 00:22:52,373 Speaker 4: me being there because they knew that I had been 356 00:22:52,413 --> 00:22:54,213 Speaker 4: denied my opportunity to speak. 357 00:22:55,213 --> 00:22:57,773 Speaker 3: And then I went outside and. 358 00:22:59,333 --> 00:23:03,853 Speaker 4: Explained what had happened in the video, and then I 359 00:23:03,893 --> 00:23:06,453 Speaker 4: gave my ten minute presentation to video. 360 00:23:07,613 --> 00:23:09,813 Speaker 3: And I have to say, from my point. 361 00:23:09,573 --> 00:23:13,693 Speaker 4: Of view, it's been an incredible success because it's gone 362 00:23:13,733 --> 00:23:16,653 Speaker 4: around New Zealand at a great pace of knots. And 363 00:23:16,693 --> 00:23:19,333 Speaker 4: I'm still astonished at how many parents are coming up 364 00:23:19,333 --> 00:23:22,133 Speaker 4: to me at the school and saying they saw my 365 00:23:22,253 --> 00:23:24,493 Speaker 4: video and how great it was and thanking me for it. 366 00:23:25,093 --> 00:23:27,253 Speaker 2: But where does it go for them? Where does it 367 00:23:27,293 --> 00:23:27,893 Speaker 2: go from there. 368 00:23:28,693 --> 00:23:32,293 Speaker 4: I will stand for the board and stop this stuff 369 00:23:32,373 --> 00:23:34,093 Speaker 4: being taught in our schools. 370 00:23:34,333 --> 00:23:37,613 Speaker 2: Can one person do that? Of course, when is the 371 00:23:37,653 --> 00:23:38,253 Speaker 2: next election? 372 00:23:39,253 --> 00:23:39,773 Speaker 3: I don't know. 373 00:23:39,893 --> 00:23:44,453 Speaker 4: I haven't checked that, but it's this year. But we 374 00:23:44,533 --> 00:23:46,853 Speaker 4: can't stop on this. This is a hill that we 375 00:23:46,893 --> 00:23:50,373 Speaker 4: all have to die on because we have a responsibility 376 00:23:50,493 --> 00:23:51,213 Speaker 4: late and don't we. 377 00:23:51,373 --> 00:23:54,133 Speaker 3: You and I know this to the next generation. 378 00:23:54,933 --> 00:24:01,853 Speaker 4: And this is much deeper than just an appropriate messaging 379 00:24:01,933 --> 00:24:05,013 Speaker 4: to kids to use the phrase that they might do. 380 00:24:06,133 --> 00:24:10,253 Speaker 4: This is actually the destruction of a generation that's occurring. 381 00:24:10,453 --> 00:24:13,293 Speaker 3: And I don't say that lightheartedly. 382 00:24:14,733 --> 00:24:18,413 Speaker 4: This is a very great evil that is being inflicted 383 00:24:18,453 --> 00:24:24,093 Speaker 4: on our children by, to all intents and purposes, very 384 00:24:24,133 --> 00:24:27,413 Speaker 4: well meaning people in our schools. The ball is very 385 00:24:27,453 --> 00:24:30,133 Speaker 4: well meaning. They do their best, They do a great job. 386 00:24:31,093 --> 00:24:34,893 Speaker 4: The teachers are all very well meaning and do a 387 00:24:34,893 --> 00:24:39,373 Speaker 4: great job. The school does a great job. But what 388 00:24:39,533 --> 00:24:42,253 Speaker 4: is going on within our schools is they've been hijacked, 389 00:24:43,013 --> 00:24:47,373 Speaker 4: and they've been hijacked in a number of areas, and 390 00:24:47,493 --> 00:24:51,813 Speaker 4: one of them is sex education. And it's cutting right 391 00:24:51,893 --> 00:24:57,573 Speaker 4: into what a child believes and their sense of self, and. 392 00:24:57,493 --> 00:25:01,813 Speaker 2: It just expand on that sense of self aspect for us. 393 00:25:02,253 --> 00:25:04,973 Speaker 4: Well, this is a funny one. There's a lovely lady 394 00:25:05,013 --> 00:25:11,213 Speaker 4: called Elizabeth Cave who explained this to me, and she 395 00:25:11,373 --> 00:25:15,453 Speaker 4: drew on the work of a practicing psychologist, Michael Stosney, 396 00:25:16,773 --> 00:25:19,693 Speaker 4: and let me do it talking about you and me 397 00:25:20,453 --> 00:25:24,093 Speaker 4: and what it was like when we grew up in school. Now, 398 00:25:24,173 --> 00:25:26,853 Speaker 4: when we grew up in school, we had a great 399 00:25:26,893 --> 00:25:31,813 Speaker 4: sense of who we were because we built on a pyramid. 400 00:25:33,173 --> 00:25:36,293 Speaker 4: Didn't know this at the time, It just happened. And 401 00:25:36,333 --> 00:25:38,973 Speaker 4: this is what Michael Stolsney explains. The bottom of the 402 00:25:39,013 --> 00:25:44,173 Speaker 4: pyramid is a concept of humanity. So we grew up 403 00:25:44,213 --> 00:25:47,733 Speaker 4: in a world where we were connected with every other 404 00:25:47,813 --> 00:25:50,693 Speaker 4: human in the world. We had our humanity, we had 405 00:25:50,733 --> 00:25:55,133 Speaker 4: our care for one another. We had on top of 406 00:25:55,173 --> 00:25:59,453 Speaker 4: that our character. And when I look back at my 407 00:25:59,813 --> 00:26:04,613 Speaker 4: upbringing and your upbringing, character was number one that was 408 00:26:04,693 --> 00:26:13,053 Speaker 4: extraordinarily taught to us by scout masters, our parents, uncles, 409 00:26:14,293 --> 00:26:20,533 Speaker 4: the rugby coach, the school, so much so that you 410 00:26:20,613 --> 00:26:25,893 Speaker 4: wouldn't snitch because that was bad character. And this will 411 00:26:26,213 --> 00:26:32,253 Speaker 4: horrify younger listeners. But if you were getting bullied, you 412 00:26:32,333 --> 00:26:35,293 Speaker 4: would likely be told go and deal to the bully, 413 00:26:35,853 --> 00:26:40,813 Speaker 4: stand up for yourself character. On top of that, we 414 00:26:40,813 --> 00:26:43,733 Speaker 4: were given a sense of self with our beliefs and 415 00:26:43,773 --> 00:26:48,973 Speaker 4: our ideology. And in my case, I wasn't a Christian 416 00:26:49,253 --> 00:26:54,093 Speaker 4: then I didn't believe in the supernatural or the divine, 417 00:26:54,653 --> 00:26:58,973 Speaker 4: but I respected christian a thought. But I lived in 418 00:26:59,013 --> 00:27:04,453 Speaker 4: a Christian world, and so my beliefs were the universal values, 419 00:27:04,493 --> 00:27:10,253 Speaker 4: which I thought were universal values of forgiveness, of grace, 420 00:27:11,133 --> 00:27:15,093 Speaker 4: of loving your neighbor, of all those things, of a 421 00:27:15,213 --> 00:27:20,013 Speaker 4: moral uprightness, of being prepared to lay down your life 422 00:27:20,053 --> 00:27:22,853 Speaker 4: to protect a woman and a child, to be a knight, 423 00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:25,733 Speaker 4: and shining armor, to open the door, to give your 424 00:27:25,733 --> 00:27:31,133 Speaker 4: seat up, found your self sacrifice for others. That was 425 00:27:31,213 --> 00:27:35,653 Speaker 4: what I believed. I had a great sense of history. 426 00:27:36,133 --> 00:27:39,093 Speaker 4: It was instilled in me like all of us. We 427 00:27:39,093 --> 00:27:42,253 Speaker 4: were member of the Commonwealth, and we had built this 428 00:27:42,493 --> 00:27:47,333 Speaker 4: Westminster system, our Fourbears, where we had free speech, speech 429 00:27:47,493 --> 00:27:52,973 Speaker 4: and rights. We had abolished slavery, we had abolished serfdom. 430 00:27:53,653 --> 00:27:55,373 Speaker 3: Jack was every bit as good. 431 00:27:55,213 --> 00:27:59,413 Speaker 4: As his master, and here in New Zealand we had 432 00:27:59,453 --> 00:28:00,213 Speaker 4: perfected it. 433 00:28:00,653 --> 00:28:01,813 Speaker 3: That's what we believed. 434 00:28:02,693 --> 00:28:05,813 Speaker 4: On top of that, that's what we believed growing up, 435 00:28:05,853 --> 00:28:11,293 Speaker 4: that we had we loved Western civilization, and here in 436 00:28:11,333 --> 00:28:13,973 Speaker 4: New Zealand it was its pinnacle because we got we 437 00:28:14,013 --> 00:28:16,613 Speaker 4: didn't have the class system. On top of that, we 438 00:28:16,613 --> 00:28:20,573 Speaker 4: were taught talents and skills and we rated them. If 439 00:28:20,573 --> 00:28:23,013 Speaker 4: you were talented and you were skillful, you were a 440 00:28:23,053 --> 00:28:26,333 Speaker 4: good person. And if you applied them to the benefit 441 00:28:26,493 --> 00:28:30,493 Speaker 4: of others, that was a good thing. And at the 442 00:28:30,613 --> 00:28:35,573 Speaker 4: very top of that pyramid, hardly mattering at all was 443 00:28:35,693 --> 00:28:39,893 Speaker 4: our race and ethnicity and our sex and what we 444 00:28:40,013 --> 00:28:45,053 Speaker 4: now call gender. And they were insignificant to us. 445 00:28:46,293 --> 00:28:48,253 Speaker 2: How could they be insignificant to you? 446 00:28:48,813 --> 00:28:53,133 Speaker 4: Because we believed and were taught to believe in the 447 00:28:53,213 --> 00:28:58,773 Speaker 4: ideal that you were to be blind to race, that 448 00:28:58,813 --> 00:29:03,573 Speaker 4: you were to value another person first of all because 449 00:29:03,573 --> 00:29:07,373 Speaker 4: they were another human being, but secondly by their character 450 00:29:07,533 --> 00:29:11,653 Speaker 4: and their skill, their talents, and that applied to men 451 00:29:11,693 --> 00:29:15,933 Speaker 4: and to women. Men and women were different, but they 452 00:29:15,973 --> 00:29:20,213 Speaker 4: had value because they were human beings and a woman 453 00:29:20,293 --> 00:29:24,293 Speaker 4: that was good at things would be admired just like 454 00:29:24,373 --> 00:29:28,653 Speaker 4: a man would be. But we didn't value them by 455 00:29:28,813 --> 00:29:32,973 Speaker 4: their sex, the agenda, or their race. That was irrelevant, 456 00:29:34,293 --> 00:29:35,333 Speaker 4: totally irrelevant. 457 00:29:35,373 --> 00:29:37,453 Speaker 2: So what age are we talking now? For you? 458 00:29:38,693 --> 00:29:38,853 Speaker 3: Oh? 459 00:29:39,213 --> 00:29:42,293 Speaker 4: Primary school, in high school, in the nineteen sixties. 460 00:29:42,733 --> 00:29:47,333 Speaker 2: Wasn't long before that, for instance, that and I'm thinking 461 00:29:47,333 --> 00:29:49,773 Speaker 2: of one case in particular that I'm very familiar with 462 00:29:50,413 --> 00:29:55,253 Speaker 2: of a woman who grew up in London and was 463 00:29:56,733 --> 00:30:01,933 Speaker 2: highly intelligent and set a couple of records for female students. 464 00:30:03,453 --> 00:30:07,413 Speaker 2: But the best job they could get that I'm talking 465 00:30:08,613 --> 00:30:12,013 Speaker 2: literally for women, the best job they could get was 466 00:30:12,773 --> 00:30:17,533 Speaker 2: school teaching or working in an office as an assistant, 467 00:30:17,613 --> 00:30:22,933 Speaker 2: something along those lines. And if they got pregnant, they 468 00:30:23,013 --> 00:30:26,213 Speaker 2: had to stop working. So there wasn't there was plenty 469 00:30:26,253 --> 00:30:29,333 Speaker 2: of room for improvement in the situation and the balance 470 00:30:30,173 --> 00:30:31,733 Speaker 2: back then, don't you think. 471 00:30:33,413 --> 00:30:38,093 Speaker 4: Of course, but we make a mistake if we see 472 00:30:38,773 --> 00:30:42,333 Speaker 4: things that are wrong that we can put right versus 473 00:30:42,333 --> 00:30:46,493 Speaker 4: condemning everything. And that was the mistake I made. So 474 00:30:46,573 --> 00:30:49,893 Speaker 4: you see injustices and you see things that are troubling 475 00:30:50,453 --> 00:30:53,773 Speaker 4: and you say, oh, that's so terrible, let's throw it out. 476 00:30:53,893 --> 00:30:59,173 Speaker 4: For instance, you say, how terrible is it that this 477 00:30:59,213 --> 00:31:02,453 Speaker 4: poor woman got pregnant and now it was poverty stricken, 478 00:31:03,613 --> 00:31:06,013 Speaker 4: and you say, well, let's just you know, give me 479 00:31:06,053 --> 00:31:09,933 Speaker 4: a financial support through the government fix that problem. You 480 00:31:09,973 --> 00:31:16,373 Speaker 4: see a woman being beaten in an abusive relationship. 481 00:31:16,133 --> 00:31:18,733 Speaker 3: And no easy way out of being married. 482 00:31:18,813 --> 00:31:21,893 Speaker 4: And you say, well, let's make for no fault divorce 483 00:31:22,493 --> 00:31:29,053 Speaker 4: and financial support. And what you don't realize is you're 484 00:31:29,133 --> 00:31:31,813 Speaker 4: throwing them, throwing the baby out with the bath water. 485 00:31:32,853 --> 00:31:35,533 Speaker 4: So we literally got rid of marriage and the family 486 00:31:36,213 --> 00:31:41,453 Speaker 4: because of those issues. We got rid of respectful woman 487 00:31:42,933 --> 00:31:45,413 Speaker 4: because we didn't think it was right that a woman 488 00:31:45,453 --> 00:31:50,413 Speaker 4: should be confined to particular jobs. Whereas what we could 489 00:31:50,413 --> 00:31:54,773 Speaker 4: have done is through a generosity of spirit and through 490 00:31:55,253 --> 00:31:59,653 Speaker 4: being better people ourselves, we could have helped those ladies, 491 00:32:00,093 --> 00:32:03,813 Speaker 4: and many people did, and we could have in our 492 00:32:03,853 --> 00:32:10,053 Speaker 4: own lives not discriminated against women. But the move was 493 00:32:10,173 --> 00:32:15,093 Speaker 4: to take those instances and literally to destroy marriage, the family, 494 00:32:15,173 --> 00:32:19,733 Speaker 4: and womanhood, and we did it extremely successfully. So I'm 495 00:32:19,733 --> 00:32:25,173 Speaker 4: not going to defend the institutions that we've had for 496 00:32:25,253 --> 00:32:35,373 Speaker 4: thousands of years against particular instances of injustice, because you can't. 497 00:32:35,933 --> 00:32:40,933 Speaker 4: But what you can say about those individual instances and justice, 498 00:32:41,253 --> 00:32:45,373 Speaker 4: I can do something myself to ameliorate that and to 499 00:32:45,453 --> 00:32:48,333 Speaker 4: help that and to fix that, which is actually the 500 00:32:48,413 --> 00:32:51,813 Speaker 4: Christian thing to do. But you'd make a terrible mistake 501 00:32:51,973 --> 00:32:55,653 Speaker 4: to undermine thousands of years of tradition because of that. 502 00:32:56,693 --> 00:33:02,093 Speaker 4: Funny enough, I think that's been always the argument of 503 00:33:02,133 --> 00:33:05,973 Speaker 4: what you and I might call the progressive left, where 504 00:33:06,013 --> 00:33:11,453 Speaker 4: they pick on a single, single instance and use that 505 00:33:11,613 --> 00:33:17,373 Speaker 4: to turn everything over. You know, in fact it is 506 00:33:17,493 --> 00:33:21,693 Speaker 4: it's the emodus operandi. So oh, we've got a terrible 507 00:33:21,733 --> 00:33:24,373 Speaker 4: problem of child abuse, so let's get rid of smacking. 508 00:33:24,773 --> 00:33:28,773 Speaker 4: And that's what happened, And so yes, I agree with you. 509 00:33:28,853 --> 00:33:29,533 Speaker 4: It was terrible. 510 00:33:30,813 --> 00:33:32,733 Speaker 3: It was particularly bad when young. 511 00:33:32,573 --> 00:33:36,373 Speaker 4: Women couldn't go to university, or young women would go 512 00:33:36,413 --> 00:33:39,853 Speaker 4: to university qualify as great astronomers but couldn't work in 513 00:33:40,093 --> 00:33:43,053 Speaker 4: obsur tree even though they were far better than the mean. 514 00:33:43,093 --> 00:33:46,253 Speaker 2: At times, it actually it actually makes you laugh in 515 00:33:46,253 --> 00:33:51,333 Speaker 2: what regard to think about that you think about this 516 00:33:51,413 --> 00:33:54,373 Speaker 2: is the effect that has on me. You just mentioned 517 00:33:54,413 --> 00:34:00,253 Speaker 2: the woman who couldn't work in an observatory, and I 518 00:34:00,293 --> 00:34:02,493 Speaker 2: don't know which case you're talking about, but I certainly 519 00:34:02,573 --> 00:34:06,373 Speaker 2: I certainly recall one in particular, and the fact that 520 00:34:06,413 --> 00:34:10,213 Speaker 2: a woman couldn't work in an environment like that, albeit 521 00:34:10,293 --> 00:34:17,013 Speaker 2: that she was highly qualified, was insane. And if it's insane, 522 00:34:17,453 --> 00:34:22,333 Speaker 2: then it's laughable. It's very risible, certainly. I mean, it's 523 00:34:22,413 --> 00:34:25,013 Speaker 2: just ridiculous, is it? 524 00:34:25,413 --> 00:34:31,693 Speaker 4: Yes, it's a funny thing, you know, because I'm not 525 00:34:31,773 --> 00:34:35,293 Speaker 4: so sure you're right. Well, let me have another shot 526 00:34:35,293 --> 00:34:39,773 Speaker 4: at it. It is ridiculous now, yes, yes, Now that 527 00:34:39,893 --> 00:34:44,613 Speaker 4: that opens up the argument that you can't judge today 528 00:34:44,773 --> 00:34:50,013 Speaker 4: on one hundred years ago. No, of course, and that's 529 00:34:50,053 --> 00:34:53,533 Speaker 4: the way that it was then, and possibly in time 530 00:34:53,613 --> 00:34:56,333 Speaker 4: to come, some of the stuff that goes down these 531 00:34:56,453 --> 00:35:00,493 Speaker 4: days will be treated in exactly the same way. I 532 00:35:01,053 --> 00:35:05,773 Speaker 4: find it interesting because part of I've realized that that 533 00:35:06,453 --> 00:35:10,893 Speaker 4: we've lost respect for woman, so young men, not all 534 00:35:12,093 --> 00:35:16,253 Speaker 4: and maybe not typically, but there's a disrespect of woman. 535 00:35:16,893 --> 00:35:21,413 Speaker 3: And it's part of this failure to do. 536 00:35:21,493 --> 00:35:25,693 Speaker 4: This identity because just to finish that in a sentence, 537 00:35:26,453 --> 00:35:31,453 Speaker 4: whereas what was happening to us, our humanity, our character, 538 00:35:32,533 --> 00:35:36,413 Speaker 4: our belief systems, and our talents and our skills were 539 00:35:36,413 --> 00:35:40,733 Speaker 4: being worked on when you attend school. Now it's all 540 00:35:40,813 --> 00:35:46,493 Speaker 4: about race and gender. That's what matters, and it's fluid, 541 00:35:46,853 --> 00:35:51,613 Speaker 4: and so our kids aren't being taught character and humanity, 542 00:35:52,053 --> 00:35:54,213 Speaker 4: and not particularly being talented or skilled. 543 00:35:56,093 --> 00:36:01,773 Speaker 2: Let me refer you to something that is present in time, 544 00:36:02,253 --> 00:36:06,813 Speaker 2: and I'm talking about wokeness, which led to all sorts 545 00:36:06,853 --> 00:36:11,693 Speaker 2: of things, THEI being one. Yes, And it came out 546 00:36:11,733 --> 00:36:14,933 Speaker 2: of America, and it's spread fairly rapidly through the world, 547 00:36:15,493 --> 00:36:19,813 Speaker 2: or through the Western world anyway. Now it's changed, it's 548 00:36:19,893 --> 00:36:24,213 Speaker 2: been made illegal certainly in government departments, et cetera. And 549 00:36:24,333 --> 00:36:29,053 Speaker 2: it's spreading pretty much like wildfire through big organizations in 550 00:36:29,093 --> 00:36:32,733 Speaker 2: the States. Now the question is, are we yet seeing 551 00:36:32,773 --> 00:36:35,693 Speaker 2: it here the same as white nonsense spread around the 552 00:36:35,733 --> 00:36:39,013 Speaker 2: world and came here settled. Does it mean that the 553 00:36:39,093 --> 00:36:43,293 Speaker 2: follow on from the Trump action will do the same, 554 00:36:43,813 --> 00:36:47,133 Speaker 2: and so it will spread and settle here and will 555 00:36:47,173 --> 00:36:50,053 Speaker 2: be done with it? And I want to suggest to 556 00:36:50,093 --> 00:36:53,413 Speaker 2: you that, well, let me refer you to two headlines. 557 00:36:53,933 --> 00:36:57,693 Speaker 2: Understanding the backlash against corporate DEI and how to move 558 00:36:57,773 --> 00:37:01,453 Speaker 2: forward is one, but these are two American pieces. Elite 559 00:37:01,613 --> 00:37:05,773 Speaker 2: holdouts will keep wokeness alive. And I could quote you 560 00:37:05,773 --> 00:37:07,013 Speaker 2: some of it, but I won't because I think they 561 00:37:07,013 --> 00:37:10,813 Speaker 2: speak for themselves. And then you get a New Zealand 562 00:37:10,813 --> 00:37:15,693 Speaker 2: headline Corporate New Zealand is doubling down on diversity, equity 563 00:37:15,813 --> 00:37:20,333 Speaker 2: and inclusion. Global Women's new CEO says, I read that 564 00:37:20,373 --> 00:37:23,973 Speaker 2: only this morning, and she justifies the whole thing and 565 00:37:24,213 --> 00:37:27,013 Speaker 2: says that the companies that she deals with and her 566 00:37:27,133 --> 00:37:31,573 Speaker 2: organization deals with, and she's talking about top companies from 567 00:37:31,573 --> 00:37:35,533 Speaker 2: pricewaterhouse Coopers and down. Like I said, they're doubling down. 568 00:37:35,693 --> 00:37:39,213 Speaker 2: And she anticipates that we will we will continue to 569 00:37:39,253 --> 00:37:42,533 Speaker 2: stand independently in the world if necessary. But what do 570 00:37:42,613 --> 00:37:42,973 Speaker 2: you say? 571 00:37:44,373 --> 00:37:47,653 Speaker 4: I noticed it was a woman, and I mean this genuinely, 572 00:37:48,373 --> 00:37:53,413 Speaker 4: And this goes back to distinct roles and differences because 573 00:37:53,453 --> 00:37:57,813 Speaker 4: men would never stand for it. Men are inherently competitive 574 00:37:58,453 --> 00:38:02,493 Speaker 4: and tough and are not knowing for their known for 575 00:38:02,533 --> 00:38:05,853 Speaker 4: their emotions. But the men were gotten rid of early 576 00:38:06,013 --> 00:38:09,613 Speaker 4: on and feminized and so in the corporates and in 577 00:38:09,613 --> 00:38:15,053 Speaker 4: these leadership positions, it's woman and that the men you 578 00:38:15,213 --> 00:38:20,653 Speaker 4: met aren't men like we knew as youngsters growing up, 579 00:38:22,053 --> 00:38:24,773 Speaker 4: because the men that you and I growing up wouldn't 580 00:38:24,773 --> 00:38:25,333 Speaker 4: stand for it. 581 00:38:26,093 --> 00:38:28,293 Speaker 3: Will it end? I don't know. 582 00:38:29,173 --> 00:38:31,133 Speaker 4: I have a great regret that I went on your 583 00:38:31,173 --> 00:38:34,853 Speaker 4: show and you asked me about Trump. It might be 584 00:38:34,933 --> 00:38:38,293 Speaker 4: not the last episode, but the one before that we did, 585 00:38:39,413 --> 00:38:43,613 Speaker 4: and you pulled me up quite rightly because you asked 586 00:38:43,613 --> 00:38:47,013 Speaker 4: me what I thought of Trump, and I said, well, 587 00:38:47,173 --> 00:38:49,373 Speaker 4: I think I said he's not sort of someone that 588 00:38:49,373 --> 00:38:50,773 Speaker 4: I'd particularly. 589 00:38:50,253 --> 00:38:51,013 Speaker 3: Like to have dinner with. 590 00:38:51,173 --> 00:38:54,413 Speaker 4: But you know, I support him, And you said, come on, 591 00:38:54,773 --> 00:38:57,813 Speaker 4: it's either in or out, and I said, I'm totally in, 592 00:38:58,733 --> 00:39:02,293 Speaker 4: but I had been socialized not to say I'm one 593 00:39:02,333 --> 00:39:05,373 Speaker 4: hundred percent Trump when we went into the selection in 594 00:39:05,413 --> 00:39:09,293 Speaker 4: the United States of America. I regard it Trump winning 595 00:39:10,093 --> 00:39:13,973 Speaker 4: as Western civilization hanging in the balance. I regard his 596 00:39:14,133 --> 00:39:18,333 Speaker 4: success of his agenda and as team of who I 597 00:39:18,373 --> 00:39:25,893 Speaker 4: call pirates or revolutionaries that Western civilization depends upon them 598 00:39:25,973 --> 00:39:29,973 Speaker 4: being successful. If they're successful, then it will sweep through 599 00:39:30,013 --> 00:39:34,413 Speaker 4: New Zealand. Wokeness will die if they're not successful. I 600 00:39:34,533 --> 00:39:37,813 Speaker 4: fear for the Western civilization because what is under attack 601 00:39:37,853 --> 00:39:42,293 Speaker 4: here with wokeness is actually Western civilization. It's all the 602 00:39:42,373 --> 00:39:46,373 Speaker 4: values and the moras and the traditions. And this actually 603 00:39:46,413 --> 00:39:51,253 Speaker 4: relates to what we're discussing because DEI and Will Wokeness 604 00:39:51,453 --> 00:39:54,853 Speaker 4: are far more corrosive than anyone appreciates. 605 00:39:55,853 --> 00:39:57,813 Speaker 3: And let me pick on a New Zealand example. 606 00:39:58,213 --> 00:40:01,813 Speaker 4: We had a navy ship run aground and it's captain 607 00:40:01,893 --> 00:40:05,413 Speaker 4: happened to be Fema. You and I would both agree 608 00:40:05,653 --> 00:40:08,733 Speaker 4: that there could well be a very capable a woman 609 00:40:08,853 --> 00:40:11,933 Speaker 4: captain of a ship, and you and I would both 610 00:40:11,973 --> 00:40:15,533 Speaker 4: agree that they shouldn't be denied the opportunity to compete 611 00:40:15,573 --> 00:40:18,013 Speaker 4: for that role. Would you agree with that? I would 612 00:40:18,653 --> 00:40:22,693 Speaker 4: you and I, I think would also agree that it's 613 00:40:22,733 --> 00:40:28,253 Speaker 4: a great problem when you make a fan fear about 614 00:40:28,733 --> 00:40:31,693 Speaker 4: a person getting the job because she is a woman 615 00:40:32,253 --> 00:40:36,013 Speaker 4: or because she is Mary. And that's what happened here. 616 00:40:36,533 --> 00:40:40,373 Speaker 4: Now you go online and they're arguing about was this 617 00:40:40,533 --> 00:40:44,733 Speaker 4: diversity and inclusiveness that made this boat go on the 618 00:40:44,773 --> 00:40:47,653 Speaker 4: water because you just had someone who was incompetent. And 619 00:40:47,693 --> 00:40:51,013 Speaker 4: I say, that's not the point. Obviously she was incompetent 620 00:40:51,573 --> 00:40:54,293 Speaker 4: because the ship that she was in command of ran aground. 621 00:40:54,573 --> 00:40:57,773 Speaker 4: That's the very definition of being incompetent. But here is 622 00:40:57,813 --> 00:41:03,973 Speaker 4: a more telling thing. An organization can only be about performance. 623 00:41:04,733 --> 00:41:08,053 Speaker 4: If you're talking about the Navy, it's its ability to 624 00:41:08,093 --> 00:41:11,893 Speaker 4: do the job of a navy. If from the very top, 625 00:41:12,773 --> 00:41:15,813 Speaker 4: from the Minister of Defense to the Chief of Defense down, 626 00:41:17,013 --> 00:41:21,253 Speaker 4: your virtue signaling, your wokeness, are saying, oh, look we've 627 00:41:21,253 --> 00:41:23,733 Speaker 4: got a woman, we've got this, we've got. 628 00:41:23,573 --> 00:41:25,093 Speaker 3: That, look at us, look at us. 629 00:41:26,333 --> 00:41:32,213 Speaker 4: The morale and the performance right through their organization collapses. 630 00:41:32,773 --> 00:41:38,533 Speaker 4: And that's what's happened an organization across New Zealand and 631 00:41:38,613 --> 00:41:43,053 Speaker 4: across the world, and it is actually what is being signaled. 632 00:41:44,093 --> 00:41:47,773 Speaker 4: We no longer say, oh, we've got the best navy 633 00:41:47,813 --> 00:41:51,213 Speaker 4: because they achieved this. Now we've got the best navy 634 00:41:51,293 --> 00:41:55,653 Speaker 4: because we have a woman captain. That is crazy. Later, 635 00:41:56,613 --> 00:41:59,333 Speaker 4: the same thing has happened in corporate New Zealand. We 636 00:41:59,493 --> 00:42:03,773 Speaker 4: used to evaluate companies by whether they survived. 637 00:42:03,253 --> 00:42:04,053 Speaker 3: And made a profit. 638 00:42:04,853 --> 00:42:09,613 Speaker 4: Now we're looking at companies and literally it's do they 639 00:42:09,613 --> 00:42:15,693 Speaker 4: have the rainbow tick? Are they recycling? Do they have 640 00:42:15,813 --> 00:42:21,093 Speaker 4: inclusive policies for staff and profit? And survivability are neither 641 00:42:21,133 --> 00:42:24,253 Speaker 4: here nor there. The people running the companies love this 642 00:42:24,933 --> 00:42:27,533 Speaker 4: because there's nothing better than having more than one objective 643 00:42:27,573 --> 00:42:31,453 Speaker 4: to shoot for, because you can never fails. Our profits 644 00:42:31,453 --> 00:42:34,373 Speaker 4: are down a bit this year, Sam oh, Yes, but 645 00:42:34,453 --> 00:42:40,773 Speaker 4: I appointed three lesbians as managers, right, And these multiple. 646 00:42:40,413 --> 00:42:41,813 Speaker 3: Goals have. 647 00:42:43,813 --> 00:42:50,733 Speaker 4: Shielded the corporates from accountability. And of course at the 648 00:42:50,773 --> 00:42:55,413 Speaker 4: same time, we have regulated these industries so much that 649 00:42:55,413 --> 00:42:57,933 Speaker 4: there can't be a takeover. And of course it's the 650 00:42:57,973 --> 00:43:01,253 Speaker 4: same thing in our instance of our navy and our 651 00:43:01,293 --> 00:43:05,093 Speaker 4: air Force and our Army because I love it in 652 00:43:05,133 --> 00:43:09,733 Speaker 4: Trump's America because the issue for their military now is lethality. 653 00:43:10,653 --> 00:43:13,773 Speaker 4: How good are they killing? We don't evaluate our navy 654 00:43:13,813 --> 00:43:15,933 Speaker 4: by how good they are blowing other ships out of 655 00:43:15,933 --> 00:43:16,293 Speaker 4: the water. 656 00:43:16,853 --> 00:43:19,453 Speaker 2: Well, do we have any ships that are capable of 657 00:43:19,493 --> 00:43:20,093 Speaker 2: doing it? 658 00:43:20,773 --> 00:43:24,453 Speaker 4: No, we can't. We don't have a ship that's capable 659 00:43:24,453 --> 00:43:27,413 Speaker 4: of surveying a reef. And they attempted to survey a 660 00:43:27,453 --> 00:43:32,973 Speaker 4: reef and they sunk it. And that's because put identity 661 00:43:33,693 --> 00:43:38,613 Speaker 4: and irrelevancies over and above performance, and you know all 662 00:43:38,613 --> 00:43:42,493 Speaker 4: of this matters. I take young kids to a cadets 663 00:43:43,013 --> 00:43:46,493 Speaker 4: and one boy is desperate to be in the Air 664 00:43:46,533 --> 00:43:48,493 Speaker 4: Force and he's fourteen. 665 00:43:48,573 --> 00:43:50,293 Speaker 2: Great kid, What are his chances? 666 00:43:51,653 --> 00:43:56,373 Speaker 4: He's worked out thy zero because he can't get a 667 00:43:56,493 --> 00:43:59,453 Speaker 4: scholarship because you'd need to be a marry or woman. 668 00:44:00,013 --> 00:44:02,533 Speaker 2: Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. Are you 669 00:44:02,693 --> 00:44:08,733 Speaker 2: telling us that he's this kid? This boy is not 670 00:44:09,653 --> 00:44:14,653 Speaker 2: fit for purpose for applying for a scholarship. Correct, not 671 00:44:14,773 --> 00:44:18,173 Speaker 2: that he could apply, but he knows he wouldn't get it. 672 00:44:18,733 --> 00:44:21,613 Speaker 2: That he can't apply, He doesn't qualify for application. 673 00:44:22,733 --> 00:44:24,373 Speaker 3: Is it? They're an unavailable to him? 674 00:44:25,013 --> 00:44:28,133 Speaker 2: Well, based on what you've told us, I'm finding I'm 675 00:44:28,173 --> 00:44:30,053 Speaker 2: finding a need to suppress anger. 676 00:44:30,493 --> 00:44:32,013 Speaker 3: Oh it's very dark. 677 00:44:32,373 --> 00:44:34,533 Speaker 4: And of course the thing of this is to get 678 00:44:34,653 --> 00:44:39,933 Speaker 4: upstream of it, so not to be arguing down, you know, 679 00:44:40,373 --> 00:44:42,853 Speaker 4: at the bottom of it all, which is what I've 680 00:44:42,853 --> 00:44:46,493 Speaker 4: always done, but to get upstream to where the starts. 681 00:44:48,093 --> 00:44:50,333 Speaker 4: And if you get upstream, I think you see that 682 00:44:50,373 --> 00:44:53,533 Speaker 4: there are not one hundred problems or a thousand problems, 683 00:44:53,573 --> 00:44:55,333 Speaker 4: or a million problems that are overwhelming. 684 00:44:55,373 --> 00:44:56,173 Speaker 3: But there's one. 685 00:44:56,493 --> 00:44:59,053 Speaker 2: I knew you were going to say that. Now, are 686 00:44:59,093 --> 00:45:00,693 Speaker 2: you talking about an individual? 687 00:45:01,213 --> 00:45:04,013 Speaker 4: I am, but you don't necessarily need to believe in 688 00:45:04,053 --> 00:45:07,413 Speaker 4: the supernatural to see it. I am talking about Jesus, 689 00:45:07,893 --> 00:45:11,853 Speaker 4: but talking also about the Juda Christian ethic, because I 690 00:45:11,893 --> 00:45:16,093 Speaker 4: could see the Judeo Christian ethic and its value before 691 00:45:16,133 --> 00:45:18,853 Speaker 4: I accepted the divine and the supernatural. 692 00:45:19,093 --> 00:45:20,733 Speaker 3: So I knew that everything. 693 00:45:20,373 --> 00:45:25,333 Speaker 4: That I enjoyed in society was a consequence of the 694 00:45:25,453 --> 00:45:31,093 Speaker 4: Juja Christian ethic. That gave us science, It gave us freedom, 695 00:45:31,493 --> 00:45:34,813 Speaker 4: it gave us civilization, it gave us rationality, It gave 696 00:45:34,893 --> 00:45:39,773 Speaker 4: us democracy, and not easily. It had to be hard, 697 00:45:39,893 --> 00:45:46,173 Speaker 4: for slavery didn't disappear when Jesus went to heaven. It 698 00:45:46,253 --> 00:45:50,573 Speaker 4: took hundreds thousands of years, but we worked away in it, 699 00:45:51,053 --> 00:45:53,893 Speaker 4: and so I do believe it's a basis of our 700 00:45:54,013 --> 00:45:58,293 Speaker 4: Judeo Christian ethic. I don't know quite how you hold 701 00:45:58,333 --> 00:46:02,333 Speaker 4: on to a Judaeo Christian ethic without a belief in Jesus. 702 00:46:02,733 --> 00:46:04,933 Speaker 2: Well, let me, can I just point something out to 703 00:46:04,973 --> 00:46:10,613 Speaker 2: you though, Yes, you see you're talking the deo Christian ethic. Yes, 704 00:46:10,853 --> 00:46:16,093 Speaker 2: but Jesus didn't figure in the Judaeo part. 705 00:46:16,893 --> 00:46:19,213 Speaker 3: Well, he did not as. 706 00:46:19,053 --> 00:46:23,293 Speaker 2: Far as Judaism, and that's what what you're talking about 707 00:46:24,453 --> 00:46:26,453 Speaker 2: Judaism is concerned. 708 00:46:27,253 --> 00:46:31,533 Speaker 4: No, but the Old Testament recognized that the Messiah was coming. 709 00:46:32,013 --> 00:46:38,013 Speaker 4: And what surprised everyone and confused them was they expected 710 00:46:38,053 --> 00:46:41,293 Speaker 4: the Messire to be like King David and to rescue 711 00:46:41,293 --> 00:46:45,453 Speaker 4: the Jews and defeat the Romans. And this Messiah turned 712 00:46:45,453 --> 00:46:49,813 Speaker 4: out and he was the antithesis of what you would expect. 713 00:46:50,653 --> 00:46:54,173 Speaker 4: Rather than being a great king raising an army and 714 00:46:54,213 --> 00:46:57,693 Speaker 4: saying fight, he wrote into Jerusalem on a donkey and 715 00:46:57,773 --> 00:47:03,693 Speaker 4: died alongside a common criminal or criminals. So yes, they 716 00:47:03,733 --> 00:47:07,413 Speaker 4: didn't recognize them as the Messiah. Only Christians did and 717 00:47:07,493 --> 00:47:07,773 Speaker 4: we do. 718 00:47:08,533 --> 00:47:12,053 Speaker 2: Was there such a thing as Christians? Then no? So 719 00:47:12,733 --> 00:47:16,413 Speaker 2: how do we then attach that to the approach you're taking. 720 00:47:16,813 --> 00:47:21,773 Speaker 4: Well, I'm not a theological expert later, but I'll do 721 00:47:21,893 --> 00:47:26,253 Speaker 4: my best. I've been a Christian for only a year 722 00:47:26,933 --> 00:47:29,413 Speaker 4: a little over, so it's very new to me. But 723 00:47:29,493 --> 00:47:33,613 Speaker 4: it seems to me that with the disciples and the 724 00:47:33,653 --> 00:47:36,653 Speaker 4: word being spread, and what an amazing word it was, 725 00:47:37,293 --> 00:47:41,693 Speaker 4: because the word was these Christians are very strange. We 726 00:47:41,733 --> 00:47:44,373 Speaker 4: throw our babies out to die when we don't want them, 727 00:47:44,733 --> 00:47:47,613 Speaker 4: and these Christians pause, they are run around and gather 728 00:47:47,733 --> 00:47:50,933 Speaker 4: them up and care for them. These Christians aren't impressed 729 00:47:50,973 --> 00:47:54,533 Speaker 4: by power and don't fear death. That's amazing. And it 730 00:47:54,613 --> 00:48:00,653 Speaker 4: spread to New Zealand. So missionaries on their own with 731 00:48:00,853 --> 00:48:05,653 Speaker 4: married guides would travel from tribe to tribe, tuning up 732 00:48:05,653 --> 00:48:08,053 Speaker 4: at a tribe, not knowing whether they would live or die, 733 00:48:08,373 --> 00:48:10,733 Speaker 4: and they'd walk in there and preach the word and 734 00:48:10,773 --> 00:48:14,973 Speaker 4: the slaves would be released. And these slaves would return 735 00:48:15,053 --> 00:48:17,453 Speaker 4: to their tribe and they'd say, what happened to you? 736 00:48:17,933 --> 00:48:21,133 Speaker 4: We thought you would gone, And they'd say, the strangest 737 00:48:21,173 --> 00:48:28,133 Speaker 4: thing happened. And so Mary weren't colonized, they were Christianized, 738 00:48:28,533 --> 00:48:32,533 Speaker 4: and so this was a very powerful message. And it's 739 00:48:32,573 --> 00:48:37,653 Speaker 4: an amazing message because it means building on the Old Testament, 740 00:48:38,053 --> 00:48:42,893 Speaker 4: which is the point that the Judeo point, the Judeo 741 00:48:43,053 --> 00:48:45,653 Speaker 4: Christian point is that you and I later and are 742 00:48:45,653 --> 00:48:48,253 Speaker 4: in the image of God. Were fallen, but we're in 743 00:48:48,293 --> 00:48:50,173 Speaker 4: the image of God and have to be respected. 744 00:48:50,173 --> 00:48:50,533 Speaker 3: Of such. 745 00:48:50,573 --> 00:48:53,853 Speaker 4: You can't treat marriage badly. Even though they in those 746 00:48:53,933 --> 00:48:57,733 Speaker 4: days they could be regarded as perimeter, they were still 747 00:48:57,773 --> 00:49:00,093 Speaker 4: made in the image of God. What are amazing message 748 00:49:00,133 --> 00:49:02,733 Speaker 4: that was to turn up to New Zealand with If 749 00:49:02,733 --> 00:49:05,533 Speaker 4: the Romans had turned up they would have just wiped 750 00:49:05,573 --> 00:49:09,373 Speaker 4: them out or taken them as Slavesians wouldn't do that, 751 00:49:09,773 --> 00:49:12,013 Speaker 4: and so it was a very powerful message. Also, if 752 00:49:12,053 --> 00:49:16,253 Speaker 4: you're a Christian again in the juj Christian heritage, the 753 00:49:16,293 --> 00:49:20,733 Speaker 4: world is rational, there's an order to it because it's 754 00:49:20,773 --> 00:49:25,493 Speaker 4: been made, and we have been with that passive God's 755 00:49:25,533 --> 00:49:29,253 Speaker 4: breath in our bodies. We have been given a mind 756 00:49:29,493 --> 00:49:32,413 Speaker 4: to uncover that order and to wonder at it. And 757 00:49:32,493 --> 00:49:36,773 Speaker 4: so the scientists were always Christian. There were great scientists 758 00:49:36,813 --> 00:49:40,853 Speaker 4: and other religions, of course, but nothing right Western science. 759 00:49:41,413 --> 00:49:44,413 Speaker 2: If if we go back to the part where you 760 00:49:44,773 --> 00:49:51,253 Speaker 2: started talking about Mari and preachers going to persuade them 761 00:49:51,573 --> 00:49:54,373 Speaker 2: that their lifestyle wasn't the best. Yes, how do you 762 00:49:54,373 --> 00:49:57,013 Speaker 2: think you'd go making a presentation like that to the 763 00:49:57,053 --> 00:49:57,693 Speaker 2: Mari party. 764 00:49:59,093 --> 00:50:00,373 Speaker 3: Fascinating, isn't it? 765 00:50:00,453 --> 00:50:03,733 Speaker 4: Because you wouldn't succeed And you wouldn't have succeeded with 766 00:50:03,853 --> 00:50:05,053 Speaker 4: me three years ago. 767 00:50:05,533 --> 00:50:08,533 Speaker 2: Would that stop you if you had the opportunity. 768 00:50:09,373 --> 00:50:14,973 Speaker 4: No, No, because we all always must try. And just 769 00:50:14,973 --> 00:50:17,973 Speaker 4: because you've hit a head against a wall and it's 770 00:50:18,013 --> 00:50:20,173 Speaker 4: never fallen over doesn't mean the next time you have. 771 00:50:20,253 --> 00:50:24,693 Speaker 3: Your head on it won't. And so yes, you do. 772 00:50:24,973 --> 00:50:29,973 Speaker 4: But what we have to understand is the value of 773 00:50:30,053 --> 00:50:33,493 Speaker 4: freedom and where that comes from, and the limits of 774 00:50:33,533 --> 00:50:37,293 Speaker 4: it and what it requires of us. And so the 775 00:50:37,293 --> 00:50:41,973 Speaker 4: married party and the individuals and the married party, all 776 00:50:42,013 --> 00:50:47,493 Speaker 4: of us, we have all benefited enormously through freedom, through democracy, 777 00:50:48,053 --> 00:50:52,333 Speaker 4: through living in the civilized world, through the leaders of 778 00:50:52,493 --> 00:50:58,013 Speaker 4: marriedom that realized the future that they could have for 779 00:50:58,053 --> 00:51:02,893 Speaker 4: their people, and by the early missionaries and political leaders 780 00:51:02,893 --> 00:51:09,493 Speaker 4: of New Zealand coming together and seeing beyond the egos 781 00:51:09,533 --> 00:51:14,613 Speaker 4: and the rankles and the disputes of today to where 782 00:51:14,613 --> 00:51:18,653 Speaker 4: we could be and in a funny way, when you 783 00:51:18,693 --> 00:51:22,893 Speaker 4: look at a white tangy day, you and McQueen pointed. 784 00:51:22,493 --> 00:51:23,093 Speaker 3: This out to me. 785 00:51:24,973 --> 00:51:32,053 Speaker 4: He's written a wonderful book called One Son in the Sky. Yes, 786 00:51:32,973 --> 00:51:36,013 Speaker 4: and he stood against me and epsom lovely, lovely man, 787 00:51:36,653 --> 00:51:40,613 Speaker 4: and we were chatting about white tangy day and he said, 788 00:51:40,653 --> 00:51:44,173 Speaker 4: there was an interesting moment in the morning when a 789 00:51:44,253 --> 00:51:48,493 Speaker 4: young woman got up and spoke and said that she 790 00:51:48,573 --> 00:51:53,613 Speaker 4: had been an alcoholic, a drug addict, homeless, used and 791 00:51:53,693 --> 00:51:58,013 Speaker 4: abused by everyone, and then she'd found Jesus and realized 792 00:51:58,053 --> 00:52:00,453 Speaker 4: he cared for her and that she had a friend. 793 00:52:00,973 --> 00:52:03,893 Speaker 4: She was special, made in the image of God, and 794 00:52:03,893 --> 00:52:07,573 Speaker 4: it saved her. And you and said you looked around 795 00:52:07,853 --> 00:52:11,453 Speaker 4: the ground and there wasn't a dry eye. Members of 796 00:52:11,493 --> 00:52:15,773 Speaker 4: the married party, we're tearing up. Members of the National Party, 797 00:52:15,773 --> 00:52:19,853 Speaker 4: we're tearing up. Members of the audience were tearing up. 798 00:52:21,533 --> 00:52:25,413 Speaker 4: And you realize with her speechs she's reaching into our 799 00:52:25,413 --> 00:52:31,733 Speaker 4: common humanity and what brought us together originally as people, 800 00:52:33,613 --> 00:52:40,453 Speaker 4: taking away this violent colonialist story to the story of love. 801 00:52:40,973 --> 00:52:43,733 Speaker 4: And so when you speak to the married party, yes, 802 00:52:43,813 --> 00:52:47,253 Speaker 4: I would try that. I don't think it would necessarily 803 00:52:47,653 --> 00:52:50,573 Speaker 4: work first time, but I'd persevere if I had the 804 00:52:50,573 --> 00:52:53,573 Speaker 4: opportunity to, if they would listen, They're not throw me 805 00:52:53,613 --> 00:52:56,413 Speaker 4: out because it's the most important message of them all, 806 00:52:57,253 --> 00:52:59,413 Speaker 4: and I think that's the message that will get us 807 00:52:59,453 --> 00:53:00,693 Speaker 4: back our huge humanity. 808 00:53:01,053 --> 00:53:02,973 Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, Just give me a brief 809 00:53:03,013 --> 00:53:07,933 Speaker 2: answer to it. Since you and you've undoubtedly talked about 810 00:53:07,973 --> 00:53:10,973 Speaker 2: this before in other places, I was unaware of the 811 00:53:11,013 --> 00:53:15,813 Speaker 2: fact that you that you became a Christian a year ago. 812 00:53:16,773 --> 00:53:20,373 Speaker 2: How much difference is it made to your daily life? 813 00:53:19,533 --> 00:53:21,413 Speaker 2: Just a short answer. 814 00:53:22,093 --> 00:53:26,853 Speaker 4: I don't recognize myself. Two things. One is before it's 815 00:53:26,893 --> 00:53:30,693 Speaker 4: a Christian. My lovely children, who are loved and adored, 816 00:53:31,493 --> 00:53:35,733 Speaker 4: were clever animals. My wife and I were bound by 817 00:53:35,773 --> 00:53:40,413 Speaker 4: an agreement, not something sacred. I regard my children as 818 00:53:40,453 --> 00:53:43,693 Speaker 4: now a gift of God to be cherished, and my 819 00:53:43,973 --> 00:53:48,693 Speaker 4: marriage is sacred. I never saw that before. How big 820 00:53:48,693 --> 00:53:49,373 Speaker 4: a changes that? 821 00:53:50,933 --> 00:53:54,813 Speaker 2: So let's say you're living at at the moment your 822 00:53:54,853 --> 00:53:58,093 Speaker 2: attitude is ten out of ten? What was it before? 823 00:53:59,453 --> 00:53:59,693 Speaker 3: One? 824 00:54:00,373 --> 00:54:05,733 Speaker 2: No, it couldn't be that low, surely, Yes, Okay, now this. 825 00:54:05,773 --> 00:54:06,733 Speaker 3: Is the I mean that. 826 00:54:06,813 --> 00:54:12,893 Speaker 4: I mean that very very because before you don't have 827 00:54:13,013 --> 00:54:18,733 Speaker 4: meaning or purpose. I carried a lot of anger because 828 00:54:18,773 --> 00:54:22,293 Speaker 4: I hadn't learned to forgive. I carried a lot of 829 00:54:23,133 --> 00:54:27,733 Speaker 4: why didn't this happen to me? Rather than counting my blessings? 830 00:54:28,333 --> 00:54:32,453 Speaker 4: But most importantly, I had never learned to forgive myself 831 00:54:33,093 --> 00:54:36,693 Speaker 4: for my shortcomings. So when I look back and say 832 00:54:36,733 --> 00:54:39,533 Speaker 4: I was a one, I guess I tend to go 833 00:54:39,613 --> 00:54:40,373 Speaker 4: to the extremes. 834 00:54:40,413 --> 00:54:42,453 Speaker 3: I'm never a five, right, it's one or ten. 835 00:54:44,133 --> 00:54:47,133 Speaker 4: A little thing that we do, and we started early on, 836 00:54:48,373 --> 00:54:52,333 Speaker 4: was to say grace at dinner. That transformed our family 837 00:54:52,373 --> 00:54:56,893 Speaker 4: life because in modern times, how often do we stop 838 00:54:57,493 --> 00:55:02,693 Speaker 4: to count our blessings? And our little kids stop and 839 00:55:02,773 --> 00:55:05,053 Speaker 4: learned to count their blessings. It's not a thing we do, 840 00:55:05,533 --> 00:55:07,293 Speaker 4: so yes, it's made a huge difference. 841 00:55:07,413 --> 00:55:12,053 Speaker 2: Later, it's at this point. If this was radio, I'd 842 00:55:12,133 --> 00:55:15,813 Speaker 2: say we need to take a break. Yeah, but I can't. 843 00:55:16,733 --> 00:55:19,613 Speaker 2: Well I could, actually, I suppose, but it would be 844 00:55:19,613 --> 00:55:23,133 Speaker 2: inserted at a later time. So let me go back 845 00:55:23,133 --> 00:55:27,213 Speaker 2: to where we were talking about wocism and give me 846 00:55:27,293 --> 00:55:31,533 Speaker 2: your thoughts on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand and 847 00:55:31,573 --> 00:55:34,693 Speaker 2: where it was at until a couple of days ago. 848 00:55:35,093 --> 00:55:37,893 Speaker 2: And there's no guarantee that it's going to change all 849 00:55:37,893 --> 00:55:43,053 Speaker 2: that much, but certainly it was struggling with some serious issues. 850 00:55:43,173 --> 00:55:45,493 Speaker 2: In my humble opinion, it was. 851 00:55:45,533 --> 00:55:51,093 Speaker 4: Terrible, and we went through a hard time with Don 852 00:55:51,133 --> 00:55:54,893 Speaker 4: Bresci's governor Reserve Bank, because we worked out what a 853 00:55:54,933 --> 00:55:59,173 Speaker 4: reserve bank was for. It was for maintaining the value 854 00:55:59,173 --> 00:56:05,373 Speaker 4: of our currency and for overseeing the prudential administration of 855 00:56:05,413 --> 00:56:09,013 Speaker 4: our banking system that their banks just didn't collect nelly, 856 00:56:09,813 --> 00:56:12,973 Speaker 4: that our money was safe and that a dollar today 857 00:56:13,013 --> 00:56:17,133 Speaker 4: would be worth a dollar tomorrow. And Don Grash achieved that. 858 00:56:17,213 --> 00:56:19,373 Speaker 4: We went through a great deal of pain bringing inflation 859 00:56:19,493 --> 00:56:24,253 Speaker 4: under control, and Adrian or came along with Grant Robertson 860 00:56:24,773 --> 00:56:30,693 Speaker 4: and destroyed it. The Reserve Bank started worshiping marry spiritual gods. 861 00:56:31,253 --> 00:56:35,133 Speaker 4: I'd be upset if they started worshiping God, because that's 862 00:56:35,133 --> 00:56:37,453 Speaker 4: not the bank's role. That's the role of a church, 863 00:56:37,493 --> 00:56:40,693 Speaker 4: and you go there yourself in your own time. But 864 00:56:40,773 --> 00:56:43,693 Speaker 4: we had a public institution, all of them, every government 865 00:56:43,733 --> 00:56:50,133 Speaker 4: department now was the same where they literally worship pagan gods. 866 00:56:50,853 --> 00:56:54,733 Speaker 4: It's not even whether you agree or a believer in 867 00:56:54,773 --> 00:56:58,653 Speaker 4: these pagan gods, like you can believe rall if you want, 868 00:56:59,773 --> 00:57:02,773 Speaker 4: but it shouldn't be the basis of you working at 869 00:57:02,773 --> 00:57:07,293 Speaker 4: the Reserve Bank. And how far off track has a 870 00:57:07,333 --> 00:57:11,813 Speaker 4: bank become if it's worshiping pagan gods as part of 871 00:57:11,853 --> 00:57:13,333 Speaker 4: its ethos? 872 00:57:13,533 --> 00:57:16,613 Speaker 2: All right, so what does the Reserve Bank need to 873 00:57:16,653 --> 00:57:19,533 Speaker 2: do to get this country to do it's bit to 874 00:57:19,533 --> 00:57:21,853 Speaker 2: get this country back where it should be. 875 00:57:23,333 --> 00:57:26,773 Speaker 4: Well, funnily enough, what I do is I know Don Brash, 876 00:57:26,813 --> 00:57:30,533 Speaker 4: and he's still healthy and hardy. I'll actually i'd put 877 00:57:30,573 --> 00:57:33,653 Speaker 4: Don Brash in charge as governor. I've never spoken to 878 00:57:33,733 --> 00:57:35,613 Speaker 4: him about this, but I would. 879 00:57:36,053 --> 00:57:38,293 Speaker 2: Funny enough, when you were just saying that a moment ago, 880 00:57:38,413 --> 00:57:42,533 Speaker 2: I thought, I wonder if he would be interested. 881 00:57:42,613 --> 00:57:47,013 Speaker 4: But well, I'm sure he would because he's a great patriot. 882 00:57:47,613 --> 00:57:52,493 Speaker 4: But the thing is, nothing would signal more the change 883 00:57:52,613 --> 00:57:57,373 Speaker 4: than putting him in charge, and anyone else coming in 884 00:57:57,853 --> 00:58:00,293 Speaker 4: he won't be thinking, oh yeah, he'll try and reverse this. 885 00:58:00,733 --> 00:58:04,053 Speaker 3: But with Don Bresh it would happen that moment. The 886 00:58:04,173 --> 00:58:05,293 Speaker 3: signal would be clear. 887 00:58:05,413 --> 00:58:09,413 Speaker 2: Are you suggesting there's a little Trump is in there? Yes? 888 00:58:10,973 --> 00:58:13,093 Speaker 2: I don't know that this country could cope with that. 889 00:58:14,453 --> 00:58:16,373 Speaker 4: No, I don't know if we could either, And I 890 00:58:16,453 --> 00:58:19,733 Speaker 4: certainly do know that Chris Laxon in the National Party couldn't. 891 00:58:20,693 --> 00:58:23,533 Speaker 4: But you asked me what the solution was, and it 892 00:58:23,653 --> 00:58:25,573 Speaker 4: is actually that sort of signal, wasn't it. 893 00:58:26,333 --> 00:58:28,253 Speaker 2: Is there anybody else that would fall into a similar 894 00:58:28,333 --> 00:58:29,813 Speaker 2: category for you. 895 00:58:31,253 --> 00:58:32,573 Speaker 3: As for Reserve Bank governor? 896 00:58:32,693 --> 00:58:37,813 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, I think Bill English someone like that, But 897 00:58:38,013 --> 00:58:40,973 Speaker 4: you know, I think it would be a bit more middling, 898 00:58:41,893 --> 00:58:44,733 Speaker 4: whereas I think Don Brash would be hardcore and he 899 00:58:44,813 --> 00:58:49,853 Speaker 4: knows the ropes. I think he's he's a powerful symbol 900 00:58:50,373 --> 00:58:53,533 Speaker 4: as not a ditz or a compromiser on this issue. 901 00:58:53,773 --> 00:58:58,693 Speaker 4: Interesting and Bill English is a great man, but he's 902 00:58:58,733 --> 00:59:01,453 Speaker 4: been a politician for a long time and has had 903 00:59:01,453 --> 00:59:04,613 Speaker 4: to sort of have everything in the little balls and 904 00:59:04,653 --> 00:59:06,053 Speaker 4: the balance, if you know what I mean. 905 00:59:07,733 --> 00:59:11,173 Speaker 2: Look, let's put let's put your let's put your political 906 00:59:11,213 --> 00:59:14,653 Speaker 2: hat on or keep it on. Ah, And you mentioned 907 00:59:14,893 --> 00:59:18,053 Speaker 2: the Nats and and the mister Luxeon. There's no question 908 00:59:18,133 --> 00:59:22,573 Speaker 2: about it. There is a growing cry for his replacement. Well, 909 00:59:22,613 --> 00:59:24,893 Speaker 2: I'm not saying I'm not I have no idea of numbers. 910 00:59:24,973 --> 00:59:31,813 Speaker 2: I'm not saying that everybody's in favor of that, but 911 00:59:31,853 --> 00:59:35,573 Speaker 2: there is a growing movement to talk him out yes, 912 00:59:35,813 --> 00:59:38,933 Speaker 2: would that be good or bad? And if it's good, 913 00:59:39,333 --> 00:59:42,053 Speaker 2: tell me who there is who could do a better job. 914 00:59:42,573 --> 00:59:46,173 Speaker 4: It's very important he leave because from the moment he 915 00:59:46,213 --> 00:59:49,733 Speaker 4: assumed the leadership of the National Party, he displayed no 916 00:59:49,933 --> 00:59:54,213 Speaker 4: backbone or principle and he actually start stands in mark 917 00:59:54,293 --> 00:59:58,013 Speaker 4: contrast to build English in this respect, because Chris Lackson 918 00:59:58,453 --> 01:00:02,533 Speaker 4: couldn't run further away from his Christian belief than he did. 919 01:00:03,693 --> 01:00:06,573 Speaker 4: Funny enough, at that time, I wasn't a Christian, but 920 01:00:06,653 --> 01:00:09,693 Speaker 4: it's still shocked because Bill. 921 01:00:09,453 --> 01:00:11,373 Speaker 3: English was a Catholic. 922 01:00:11,533 --> 01:00:13,813 Speaker 4: Is a Catholic, and he said he was a Catholic, 923 01:00:14,173 --> 01:00:16,853 Speaker 4: and he stood by it, and he said this is 924 01:00:16,853 --> 01:00:20,653 Speaker 4: how I'll vote. I'm a Catholic, my beliefs, So you 925 01:00:20,733 --> 01:00:24,453 Speaker 4: knew he had bottom lines. He also said, I understand 926 01:00:24,533 --> 01:00:28,693 Speaker 4: I'm in a caucus and I'm in a parliament and I. 927 01:00:28,613 --> 01:00:30,173 Speaker 3: Don't get to dictate what happens. 928 01:00:32,173 --> 01:00:35,053 Speaker 4: But I looked at Chris Luckson Christopher Luxon when he 929 01:00:35,093 --> 01:00:39,813 Speaker 4: came and as leader, and he was absolutely nowhere men, 930 01:00:42,293 --> 01:00:45,933 Speaker 4: and I thought, how can you possibly be a leader 931 01:00:47,053 --> 01:00:50,973 Speaker 4: if you don't stand for anything. Well, he became Prime 932 01:00:50,973 --> 01:00:56,893 Speaker 4: Minister and he still doesn't stand for anything wokeness, no 933 01:00:58,133 --> 01:01:00,893 Speaker 4: getting back the national anthem? 934 01:01:01,333 --> 01:01:05,413 Speaker 3: H does he stand for that? 935 01:01:05,413 --> 01:01:10,813 Speaker 4: That's quite funny now that I get the joke's And 936 01:01:10,853 --> 01:01:14,973 Speaker 4: in fact it's a little bit worse because he's gone 937 01:01:14,973 --> 01:01:18,933 Speaker 4: out of his way to outwoke just into a turn. 938 01:01:19,413 --> 01:01:22,933 Speaker 4: And so we have this remarkable situation. 939 01:01:23,413 --> 01:01:27,853 Speaker 2: That yes, because because it's a it's a pretty big chore. 940 01:01:29,253 --> 01:01:37,653 Speaker 4: I know. We had a example of a older teacher 941 01:01:38,453 --> 01:01:46,133 Speaker 4: brought back into service teaching at a pre school and 942 01:01:46,173 --> 01:01:51,413 Speaker 4: she writes off to the Prime Minister very alarmed. She said, 943 01:01:51,493 --> 01:01:55,013 Speaker 4: I can't believe it. There are four and five year 944 01:01:55,013 --> 01:01:59,853 Speaker 4: olds and one is youngest three and a half at 945 01:01:59,893 --> 01:02:04,573 Speaker 4: this preschool questioning their sexuality and wanting to be described 946 01:02:04,893 --> 01:02:07,453 Speaker 4: as who them's and they they thems. 947 01:02:08,173 --> 01:02:10,013 Speaker 3: And she wrote that to Christopher Laxa. 948 01:02:10,573 --> 01:02:15,013 Speaker 4: Now, if if Cinda Adurn had got that letter, she 949 01:02:15,133 --> 01:02:19,813 Speaker 4: would think, whoa, this is a problem, and she'd write 950 01:02:19,853 --> 01:02:25,893 Speaker 4: back and she'd say, I'm having my team from the 951 01:02:25,933 --> 01:02:28,213 Speaker 4: Ministry of Education investigate this. 952 01:02:29,053 --> 01:02:31,053 Speaker 3: Or Bilnish would get that. 953 01:02:31,133 --> 01:02:33,933 Speaker 4: Email and he'd write back and say that's unacceptable. 954 01:02:34,293 --> 01:02:37,413 Speaker 3: It'll stop. Christopher Luxon had. 955 01:02:37,533 --> 01:02:45,093 Speaker 4: His senior Correspondence secretary right back explaining that she should 956 01:02:45,173 --> 01:02:52,173 Speaker 4: understand that Christopher Luxon is one hundred celebrating and supporting 957 01:02:53,013 --> 01:03:03,693 Speaker 4: our lgb t QTI plus community supports and celebrates it 958 01:03:04,413 --> 01:03:06,293 Speaker 4: and celebrates diversity. 959 01:03:06,893 --> 01:03:07,533 Speaker 3: End of email. 960 01:03:07,973 --> 01:03:11,853 Speaker 4: That's in the face of three four and five year 961 01:03:11,853 --> 01:03:17,893 Speaker 4: olds being confused by the appearance and presumably maybe their 962 01:03:17,893 --> 01:03:21,413 Speaker 4: principal as to whether the boys or girls or something else. 963 01:03:21,573 --> 01:03:26,093 Speaker 2: Did you see that letter? Yes, you saw the letter 964 01:03:26,133 --> 01:03:28,253 Speaker 2: that the secretary wrote. 965 01:03:29,013 --> 01:03:31,333 Speaker 3: Yes, I wrote a column on it. 966 01:03:32,813 --> 01:03:33,853 Speaker 2: Where was that published? 967 01:03:34,813 --> 01:03:38,493 Speaker 4: Bess at Brash and Hide And I. 968 01:03:38,453 --> 01:03:40,573 Speaker 2: Said, are you still writing for them? 969 01:03:41,293 --> 01:03:41,613 Speaker 3: Yes? 970 01:03:42,293 --> 01:03:44,933 Speaker 2: I said, I'm embarrassed that I didn't know that. 971 01:03:45,413 --> 01:03:46,173 Speaker 3: No, not at all. 972 01:03:46,213 --> 01:03:50,173 Speaker 4: And I said, this is the end of his prime ministership, 973 01:03:50,773 --> 01:03:53,813 Speaker 4: because no prime minister conservative otherwise. 974 01:03:53,373 --> 01:03:54,013 Speaker 3: Can survive that. 975 01:03:54,613 --> 01:03:57,613 Speaker 4: He's never repudiated it. You could say, oh, look that 976 01:03:57,733 --> 01:04:00,333 Speaker 4: was a staff member, but you'd quickly repudiate and say 977 01:04:00,333 --> 01:04:01,053 Speaker 4: it was a mistake. 978 01:04:01,413 --> 01:04:04,493 Speaker 3: He has it because he doesn't want to upset quote 979 01:04:04,533 --> 01:04:08,453 Speaker 3: the Rainbow community. Well, this is a great thing. This 980 01:04:08,533 --> 01:04:09,693 Speaker 3: is the time. I'm going to interrupt you. 981 01:04:09,733 --> 01:04:12,133 Speaker 2: Later. It's very rude of me, but I was interrupting you. 982 01:04:12,213 --> 01:04:14,973 Speaker 2: But actually, first of all, it's. 983 01:04:14,253 --> 01:04:17,013 Speaker 4: A very important point about this, and I love it 984 01:04:17,253 --> 01:04:19,173 Speaker 4: and you and I know this that we need to 985 01:04:19,213 --> 01:04:27,133 Speaker 4: remind ourselves wokersm eats itself and it can't stop eating 986 01:04:27,173 --> 01:04:33,013 Speaker 4: itself because you can never be woke enough. And the 987 01:04:33,173 --> 01:04:39,053 Speaker 4: reason that these organizations goes so off course because they 988 01:04:39,093 --> 01:04:43,373 Speaker 4: allow a chink. You say, oh, we've got a gay 989 01:04:43,413 --> 01:04:45,493 Speaker 4: guy who's got gay ideas. 990 01:04:45,493 --> 01:04:47,373 Speaker 3: Oh well, you know, and he's saying, oh, we need 991 01:04:47,373 --> 01:04:48,453 Speaker 3: to get a rainbow tick. 992 01:04:49,093 --> 01:04:53,173 Speaker 4: You get a rainbow tick, and every year you'll be 993 01:04:53,253 --> 01:04:55,133 Speaker 4: doing more and more rainbowing. 994 01:04:55,853 --> 01:04:57,133 Speaker 3: It will never be enough. 995 01:04:57,733 --> 01:05:03,293 Speaker 4: And the extremists can't be given in too, because when 996 01:05:03,293 --> 01:05:06,693 Speaker 4: the extremists come along, they're fretting you with losing your 997 01:05:06,973 --> 01:05:10,893 Speaker 4: rainbow tick and public shame. And so you see, these 998 01:05:11,933 --> 01:05:19,253 Speaker 4: radical transactivists have turned off feminists, have turned off the 999 01:05:19,253 --> 01:05:23,133 Speaker 4: gay community, the traditional gay community, and so they can't 1000 01:05:23,173 --> 01:05:27,973 Speaker 4: help but eat themselves because Christopher Laxin can't be woken 1001 01:05:28,053 --> 01:05:34,853 Speaker 4: enough of them. Even having transgenderism implemented in this preschool. 1002 01:05:36,693 --> 01:05:40,013 Speaker 3: Is not over the top for him. Don't you find 1003 01:05:40,053 --> 01:05:40,893 Speaker 3: that extraordinary? 1004 01:05:41,773 --> 01:05:44,613 Speaker 2: I'm speechless, to be honest, And this. 1005 01:05:44,533 --> 01:05:49,573 Speaker 4: Is why, this is why what I'm talking about with 1006 01:05:49,733 --> 01:05:54,773 Speaker 4: the school is so significant because it's easy to dismiss 1007 01:05:54,813 --> 01:05:57,933 Speaker 4: these things as oh, well, you know, it's a bit 1008 01:05:58,053 --> 01:06:01,533 Speaker 4: over the top, but no, this is a fund These 1009 01:06:01,533 --> 01:06:06,453 Speaker 4: are fundamental attacks on who we are, what sort of 1010 01:06:06,493 --> 01:06:14,093 Speaker 4: society we iran. But more importantly, the coming generation and 1011 01:06:14,173 --> 01:06:18,653 Speaker 4: the generations to come after that we have a supreme 1012 01:06:18,813 --> 01:06:21,933 Speaker 4: obligation to look after them and to nurture them, and 1013 01:06:21,973 --> 01:06:25,173 Speaker 4: to provide for them. And if they are running around 1014 01:06:25,253 --> 01:06:28,693 Speaker 4: a preschool confused about who they are, or having to 1015 01:06:28,773 --> 01:06:32,973 Speaker 4: give up this seat because he's a Mary got problems. 1016 01:06:32,893 --> 01:06:36,053 Speaker 2: I've got to read you. I've got to read you something, please, 1017 01:06:36,493 --> 01:06:38,253 Speaker 2: And it was not my intention to do it. I 1018 01:06:38,333 --> 01:06:43,293 Speaker 2: was considering either doing this some probably after this interview 1019 01:06:43,453 --> 01:06:46,653 Speaker 2: or discussion. I want to read this a couple of 1020 01:06:46,653 --> 01:06:52,693 Speaker 2: short paragraphs to you. The right should be cautious. The 1021 01:06:52,773 --> 01:06:56,253 Speaker 2: right should be cautious, though, as political and social battles 1022 01:06:56,253 --> 01:06:59,293 Speaker 2: are rarely, if ever won for all time. Liberalism and 1023 01:06:59,453 --> 01:07:04,693 Speaker 2: progressivism are two labels that required multiple rebrands across several 1024 01:07:04,733 --> 01:07:09,133 Speaker 2: generations due to failing fortunes with the public, and yet 1025 01:07:10,373 --> 01:07:16,293 Speaker 2: maintained enough elite support. I'm going to repeat that, and 1026 01:07:16,413 --> 01:07:22,453 Speaker 2: yet maintained enough elite support to return just as powerfully 1027 01:07:22,493 --> 01:07:26,653 Speaker 2: as before. Those of us on the right understand that 1028 01:07:27,013 --> 01:07:31,493 Speaker 2: what's now known as wokeness is not new or a 1029 01:07:31,813 --> 01:07:36,733 Speaker 2: heretical deviation. Rather, it is the necessary outgrowth of the 1030 01:07:36,813 --> 01:07:41,253 Speaker 2: left's assumptions and assertions about the world, inseparable from its 1031 01:07:41,293 --> 01:07:45,413 Speaker 2: conception of progress. Most ordinary Americans, though, are busy with 1032 01:07:45,453 --> 01:07:49,293 Speaker 2: their lives and haven't traced the left's radicalism as it 1033 01:07:49,413 --> 01:07:53,133 Speaker 2: lurched from college campuses in the nineteen seventies into the 1034 01:07:53,173 --> 01:07:59,573 Speaker 2: mainstream of elite sorry of elite consensus. Given enough time 1035 01:07:59,693 --> 01:08:05,773 Speaker 2: and distance, a period of revisionism always arrives and and 1036 01:08:05,893 --> 01:08:10,813 Speaker 2: the battle must be taken up. So history repeats itself, 1037 01:08:11,293 --> 01:08:14,893 Speaker 2: but it's directed to the commentary of courses as directed 1038 01:08:15,293 --> 01:08:21,373 Speaker 2: totally against what is currently being eliminated. And you've only 1039 01:08:21,373 --> 01:08:24,013 Speaker 2: got a look at Marxism really to get a good 1040 01:08:24,053 --> 01:08:27,853 Speaker 2: idea on that. Yes, I. 1041 01:08:29,333 --> 01:08:37,933 Speaker 4: Attribute Wokism to laziness because knowledge is very hard to acquire, 1042 01:08:38,613 --> 01:08:42,053 Speaker 4: and I was fortunate enough to study science and I 1043 01:08:42,173 --> 01:08:47,493 Speaker 4: found it extremely hard, and to pass an exam was 1044 01:08:47,573 --> 01:08:52,013 Speaker 4: quite something. Workism explains the whole world to you in 1045 01:08:52,093 --> 01:08:55,133 Speaker 4: an easy way, because he's just an oppressor and a 1046 01:08:55,213 --> 01:09:01,013 Speaker 4: victim and a power imbalance, and it appeals to soft minds, 1047 01:09:01,373 --> 01:09:05,613 Speaker 4: and of course you don't even have to debate or argue, because. 1048 01:09:06,893 --> 01:09:09,093 Speaker 3: There's no such thing as true just power. 1049 01:09:10,693 --> 01:09:13,973 Speaker 4: And so I think our university's got lazy, and you 1050 01:09:14,013 --> 01:09:16,813 Speaker 4: can see that by the nonsense that they write, and 1051 01:09:16,893 --> 01:09:19,693 Speaker 4: the students have got lazy, and the politicians have got lazy. 1052 01:09:19,733 --> 01:09:21,613 Speaker 3: In the media got lazy. 1053 01:09:23,013 --> 01:09:25,493 Speaker 4: I don't agree with the thesis that you read out 1054 01:09:25,773 --> 01:09:29,733 Speaker 4: because it's the idea that we have to continually have 1055 01:09:29,773 --> 01:09:33,653 Speaker 4: this battle. And that's not my makeup. My makeup is 1056 01:09:33,693 --> 01:09:37,693 Speaker 4: the elimination of it. It's total destruction of the ideas 1057 01:09:39,373 --> 01:09:41,333 Speaker 4: and the reason that's simple. 1058 01:09:41,253 --> 01:09:48,093 Speaker 2: But Rodney, that's really what this is about. Yes, the destruction, 1059 01:09:48,453 --> 01:09:51,493 Speaker 2: but it won't be destroyed. That's the point. It will 1060 01:09:51,533 --> 01:09:56,573 Speaker 2: still survive in enough quarters to make a comeback as 1061 01:09:56,613 --> 01:09:57,573 Speaker 2: the world turns. 1062 01:09:57,933 --> 01:10:04,813 Speaker 4: I wonder, I wonder if you, for example, imagine if 1063 01:10:05,173 --> 01:10:07,733 Speaker 4: there was no funding. This is what's going to be 1064 01:10:07,813 --> 01:10:14,733 Speaker 4: interesting Trump, because what we thought were organic protests were 1065 01:10:14,773 --> 01:10:16,133 Speaker 4: funded by taxpayers. 1066 01:10:18,373 --> 01:10:21,053 Speaker 3: The black lives matter to far. 1067 01:10:22,533 --> 01:10:25,773 Speaker 4: And if you look at wokism here in New Zealand, 1068 01:10:27,653 --> 01:10:32,333 Speaker 4: none of it's voluntary it's all being paid for by 1069 01:10:32,573 --> 01:10:37,813 Speaker 4: you and me and our listeners. Dry up the funding 1070 01:10:39,133 --> 01:10:43,813 Speaker 4: if you can, if you can't make money explaining why 1071 01:10:43,933 --> 01:10:47,693 Speaker 4: Marxism is a good idea or why Mary are oppressed. 1072 01:10:49,573 --> 01:10:52,693 Speaker 4: If you're if you're doing that at a university and 1073 01:10:52,733 --> 01:10:55,733 Speaker 4: you're funding drives up, what job do you do? 1074 01:10:55,853 --> 01:10:56,133 Speaker 3: Latent? 1075 01:10:56,653 --> 01:11:00,853 Speaker 4: Look across the world and realize that this is all 1076 01:11:00,893 --> 01:11:06,853 Speaker 4: being funded by poor taxpayers who have been our gold 1077 01:11:07,573 --> 01:11:11,933 Speaker 4: and to pay me money for healthcare and looking after 1078 01:11:11,973 --> 01:11:16,573 Speaker 4: the poor and the aged, and that money has been 1079 01:11:16,733 --> 01:11:22,013 Speaker 4: cleverly diverted by political interests in defunding the stuff. If 1080 01:11:22,053 --> 01:11:25,813 Speaker 4: it wasn't funded, they wouldn't exist because you're not going 1081 01:11:25,893 --> 01:11:29,693 Speaker 4: to go anywhere in life. You can't succeed in a 1082 01:11:29,973 --> 01:11:35,973 Speaker 4: market economy on grievance, and so we can eliminate it. 1083 01:11:36,013 --> 01:11:38,893 Speaker 4: But we actually have to be hard. And that's what 1084 01:11:39,053 --> 01:11:43,373 Speaker 4: I love about Trump. It's hard. He's being hard, Elon 1085 01:11:43,493 --> 01:11:49,213 Speaker 4: Musker being hard. What we love about World War two 1086 01:11:49,533 --> 01:11:54,813 Speaker 4: was they were hard and they eliminated Nazism still around, yes, 1087 01:11:55,253 --> 01:12:00,293 Speaker 4: but vestiges no power. I mean, so it is so 1088 01:12:00,773 --> 01:12:03,653 Speaker 4: it is so destroyed that you use it as a 1089 01:12:03,693 --> 01:12:07,453 Speaker 4: political epithet to describe Trump and his supporters people like 1090 01:12:07,573 --> 01:12:16,133 Speaker 4: you and me. Likewise, the racist outlook of Japan and 1091 01:12:16,253 --> 01:12:24,773 Speaker 4: its imperialism was destroyed. Now that is not destroying. That was, 1092 01:12:25,013 --> 01:12:30,133 Speaker 4: you know, physically destroying a country. Both countries were destroyed 1093 01:12:32,293 --> 01:12:35,933 Speaker 4: to eliminate an idea. I'm not suggesting that you know, 1094 01:12:36,013 --> 01:12:41,053 Speaker 4: we both violence is not an answer, but surely, to 1095 01:12:41,133 --> 01:12:46,013 Speaker 4: goodness latent, it's not beyond our wit to stop funding it. 1096 01:12:46,413 --> 01:12:49,053 Speaker 4: And of course we realize in our own little way 1097 01:12:49,973 --> 01:12:55,133 Speaker 4: this to party marry business that's government funded. Tax payer 1098 01:12:55,213 --> 01:12:59,173 Speaker 4: money has funded that through all these government grants, to 1099 01:12:59,253 --> 01:13:03,293 Speaker 4: the White period of trust and whatnot. One way or another, 1100 01:13:03,773 --> 01:13:07,333 Speaker 4: you don't even have to assert criminality. Just look at 1101 01:13:07,373 --> 01:13:10,933 Speaker 4: the money that's for Adam to this. Drive the money 1102 01:13:10,933 --> 01:13:14,413 Speaker 4: out and see how long you survive in a market 1103 01:13:14,453 --> 01:13:16,853 Speaker 4: economy protesting your grievance. 1104 01:13:17,973 --> 01:13:21,533 Speaker 2: I want to share something with you in conclusions, even 1105 01:13:21,573 --> 01:13:24,813 Speaker 2: though there's plenty more we could talk about. This is 1106 01:13:24,893 --> 01:13:28,373 Speaker 2: I quoted this headline earlier, understanding the backlash against corporate 1107 01:13:28,453 --> 01:13:32,813 Speaker 2: DEI and how to move forward real world examples of 1108 01:13:32,853 --> 01:13:36,693 Speaker 2: transformation because this is pro DEI. Consider the story of 1109 01:13:36,853 --> 01:13:41,053 Speaker 2: the Cawlan Robertson a former alt right filmmaker in the 1110 01:13:41,133 --> 01:13:45,453 Speaker 2: United Kingdom. For years, Robertson worked with extremist figures to 1111 01:13:45,533 --> 01:13:50,133 Speaker 2: produce anti immigrants and anti Muslim content that garnered millions 1112 01:13:50,133 --> 01:13:53,893 Speaker 2: of views online. Then, in twenty nineteen, Robinson saw media 1113 01:13:53,973 --> 01:13:58,493 Speaker 2: coverage of Mosque shootings where fifty one people were killed 1114 01:13:58,533 --> 01:14:02,613 Speaker 2: by a white supremacist. The tragedy rattled him. In Robertson's 1115 01:14:02,653 --> 01:14:05,693 Speaker 2: own words, the event forced him to confront his assumptions 1116 01:14:05,853 --> 01:14:09,053 Speaker 2: about white identity and how it can be involved in 1117 01:14:09,173 --> 01:14:13,133 Speaker 2: violence and extremism. What began as an overwhelming sense of 1118 01:14:13,493 --> 01:14:18,493 Speaker 2: disorientation turned into a period of deep reflection. Robertson eventually 1119 01:14:18,573 --> 01:14:23,293 Speaker 2: rejected his old beliefs, began speaking out against extremism, and 1120 01:14:23,413 --> 01:14:29,493 Speaker 2: co founded an organization to help others deradicalize. Similar learning 1121 01:14:29,493 --> 01:14:33,253 Speaker 2: occurs on smaller scales in workplaces every day. For example, 1122 01:14:33,533 --> 01:14:36,613 Speaker 2: a male manager who initially feels threatened by gendering equity 1123 01:14:36,653 --> 01:14:40,653 Speaker 2: policies might over time come to recognize the barriers women 1124 01:14:40,693 --> 01:14:43,973 Speaker 2: face at work and become an advocate for change. Or 1125 01:14:44,013 --> 01:14:48,213 Speaker 2: a white employee who feels uncomfortable during discussions about racism 1126 01:14:48,693 --> 01:14:53,653 Speaker 2: might come to see how privilege has shaped their experiences. 1127 01:14:54,773 --> 01:14:57,973 Speaker 2: I just want to stay with this guy, Robertson, and 1128 01:14:58,053 --> 01:15:04,813 Speaker 2: get your opinion about him, about him, because I've got 1129 01:15:04,853 --> 01:15:07,933 Speaker 2: one definitive answer to him. But what's your response. 1130 01:15:08,853 --> 01:15:13,493 Speaker 4: Well, he's a racist, and the other example was a sexist. 1131 01:15:14,053 --> 01:15:16,893 Speaker 4: So this guy was a racist, and he thought whites 1132 01:15:16,933 --> 01:15:21,413 Speaker 4: were better than non whites, and then he had the 1133 01:15:21,453 --> 01:15:25,173 Speaker 4: mosque shooting and he decided, wow, that was done by 1134 01:15:25,173 --> 01:15:29,533 Speaker 4: a white person. Maybe non white people aren't so bad. 1135 01:15:29,573 --> 01:15:34,333 Speaker 4: After all, we're also bad. The failure is the racism, 1136 01:15:34,973 --> 01:15:41,813 Speaker 4: the idea that you identify yourself and your views and 1137 01:15:41,853 --> 01:15:49,773 Speaker 4: your belief tribally skin color, And of course that's how 1138 01:15:51,173 --> 01:15:55,973 Speaker 4: the author of the article has framed it, whereas the 1139 01:15:56,053 --> 01:16:01,093 Speaker 4: true answer in both instances is that you're an individual. 1140 01:16:01,813 --> 01:16:05,613 Speaker 4: You're not white or brown first, or even second, or 1141 01:16:05,653 --> 01:16:11,493 Speaker 4: even third. You're an individual Jews, it's your behavior that 1142 01:16:11,533 --> 01:16:18,173 Speaker 4: we're going to judge, not your ethnicity, not your group. 1143 01:16:19,413 --> 01:16:26,813 Speaker 4: And yet this is so ingrained in us, in movies, books, schools, universities, 1144 01:16:26,893 --> 01:16:31,973 Speaker 4: political discourse, that everything's getting framed in terms of race, 1145 01:16:32,733 --> 01:16:38,013 Speaker 4: And that's his problem. Why couldn't he just stop being 1146 01:16:38,053 --> 01:16:41,573 Speaker 4: a racist and see individuals? 1147 01:16:42,173 --> 01:16:43,413 Speaker 3: That to me is the problem. 1148 01:16:43,453 --> 01:16:46,853 Speaker 2: Rat, that's the problem that's going to be difficult to solve. 1149 01:16:48,173 --> 01:16:51,413 Speaker 4: My point because it's been inconculted everywhere. 1150 01:16:52,253 --> 01:16:56,533 Speaker 2: My point was that there was no mention whatsoever of 1151 01:16:56,613 --> 01:17:02,333 Speaker 2: the violence from Islam all over the planet. Now all 1152 01:17:02,333 --> 01:17:08,493 Speaker 2: of a sudden, all of a sudden, that's irrelevant and 1153 01:17:09,093 --> 01:17:10,053 Speaker 2: white be damned. 1154 01:17:10,493 --> 01:17:14,133 Speaker 3: Yes, But the question is this does a Muslim per 1155 01:17:14,253 --> 01:17:15,093 Speaker 3: se bother you? 1156 01:17:15,573 --> 01:17:17,653 Speaker 2: It's an interesting question, and I could give you an 1157 01:17:17,693 --> 01:17:22,373 Speaker 2: answer of something an example sprang to mind immediately, but 1158 01:17:22,413 --> 01:17:24,493 Speaker 2: I'm not going to. I'm not going to utilize it. 1159 01:17:24,973 --> 01:17:28,013 Speaker 2: The answer is it depends on the individual. 1160 01:17:28,613 --> 01:17:32,373 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And that's your point and my point. 1161 01:17:32,573 --> 01:17:35,133 Speaker 2: And I didn't say that because of what you said. 1162 01:17:35,893 --> 01:17:38,253 Speaker 2: It is the individual. If I see a mongrel mob 1163 01:17:39,093 --> 01:17:43,973 Speaker 2: member walking toward me, you could ask me the same question. Yes, 1164 01:17:43,973 --> 01:17:47,373 Speaker 2: it might be a mongrel mob member, but what else 1165 01:17:47,413 --> 01:17:50,973 Speaker 2: can I tell about him? Yes, that's fair enough. 1166 01:17:51,653 --> 01:17:57,293 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I totally concur Now, we always fall into the 1167 01:17:57,973 --> 01:18:04,293 Speaker 4: into it's not necessarily a trap because it can save 1168 01:18:04,333 --> 01:18:10,333 Speaker 4: our lives of pattern recognition. So if I was walking 1169 01:18:10,373 --> 01:18:15,013 Speaker 4: home on a dark night and I saw half a 1170 01:18:15,093 --> 01:18:20,293 Speaker 4: dozen choir boys walking towards me, I'd feel safe if 1171 01:18:20,333 --> 01:18:23,733 Speaker 4: I saw half a dozen Mongol My members walking towards me, 1172 01:18:24,773 --> 01:18:27,133 Speaker 4: I'd think, oh, I think I might just stuck around 1173 01:18:27,133 --> 01:18:30,173 Speaker 4: the corner here. And you'd say, well, that's a prejudice, 1174 01:18:30,613 --> 01:18:34,773 Speaker 4: and I'd say, no, it's a pattern recognition, and I 1175 01:18:34,813 --> 01:18:39,333 Speaker 4: would say, I'm not judging the individuals. I'm making a 1176 01:18:39,813 --> 01:18:45,333 Speaker 4: patent decision to just play it safe, and we all 1177 01:18:45,373 --> 01:18:49,933 Speaker 4: do that. Likewise, if I saw a young choir boy 1178 01:18:50,573 --> 01:18:57,093 Speaker 4: walking into a church with a musical instrument case, I 1179 01:18:57,093 --> 01:18:59,053 Speaker 4: would say, oh, yeah, he's going to play something for 1180 01:18:59,133 --> 01:19:03,853 Speaker 4: the church. If I saw a guy in Islamic garb 1181 01:19:04,253 --> 01:19:06,413 Speaker 4: walking in with a music case, I'd say, I need 1182 01:19:06,453 --> 01:19:11,573 Speaker 4: to see what's in there, you know what I mean. 1183 01:19:12,213 --> 01:19:16,613 Speaker 4: It's a complicated thing for people to realize that we 1184 01:19:16,733 --> 01:19:20,693 Speaker 4: have an instinct to recognize patterns, and we have a 1185 01:19:20,773 --> 01:19:26,573 Speaker 4: higher conscience to realize that we've also got to appreciate 1186 01:19:27,093 --> 01:19:30,893 Speaker 4: the individuals what decides. And there are Mongol Mob former 1187 01:19:30,973 --> 01:19:35,573 Speaker 4: Mongol Mob members who have proved exemplary and we should 1188 01:19:35,613 --> 01:19:36,773 Speaker 4: never give up on them. 1189 01:19:37,133 --> 01:19:39,493 Speaker 2: So we didn't touch on a few things that I 1190 01:19:39,533 --> 01:19:43,173 Speaker 2: wanted to. I want to ask you two or three questions. 1191 01:19:43,333 --> 01:19:47,733 Speaker 2: I want you to give me a sentence and answer, Okay, 1192 01:19:48,093 --> 01:19:51,733 Speaker 2: do your best anyway. Do you know who Antonio Guteris is? 1193 01:19:53,613 --> 01:19:55,493 Speaker 3: I do is the head of the UN? 1194 01:19:56,213 --> 01:19:59,133 Speaker 2: Do you think that New Zealand would be better off 1195 01:19:59,293 --> 01:20:01,933 Speaker 2: pulling out of the UN totally? 1196 01:20:02,773 --> 01:20:09,253 Speaker 4: The UN is a corrupt organization that promotes war and 1197 01:20:09,333 --> 01:20:13,573 Speaker 4: famine around the world and says no good purpose. 1198 01:20:13,653 --> 01:20:15,333 Speaker 2: So you think that we should pull out of the 1199 01:20:15,373 --> 01:20:18,013 Speaker 2: World Health Organization totally? 1200 01:20:18,933 --> 01:20:22,533 Speaker 4: The World Health Organization has proven itself unfit for purpose 1201 01:20:23,533 --> 01:20:28,933 Speaker 4: and almost revives on scaring people witness and coming up 1202 01:20:28,933 --> 01:20:31,133 Speaker 4: with a solution to justify its existence. 1203 01:20:31,173 --> 01:20:33,093 Speaker 3: We should get out of both organizations. 1204 01:20:33,813 --> 01:20:36,093 Speaker 2: I don't know whether you're familiar with the central bank 1205 01:20:36,133 --> 01:20:40,213 Speaker 2: digital currencies, but would you be in favor of the 1206 01:20:40,253 --> 01:20:45,493 Speaker 2: central Bank of the country eliminating cash and everything is 1207 01:20:45,573 --> 01:20:49,493 Speaker 2: done on a CBDC basis. 1208 01:20:50,613 --> 01:20:54,373 Speaker 4: No, because this will be a convenience sold to us 1209 01:20:54,413 --> 01:20:57,933 Speaker 4: as a convenience and it will very quickly become a 1210 01:20:57,973 --> 01:20:58,933 Speaker 4: method of control. 1211 01:20:59,093 --> 01:21:02,573 Speaker 2: Is it interesting that there are so many examples of 1212 01:21:02,933 --> 01:21:07,853 Speaker 2: the convenience cell and yet people still don't get it. 1213 01:21:08,853 --> 01:21:12,453 Speaker 4: Convenience and or safety. Yeah, this will keep this will 1214 01:21:12,533 --> 01:21:13,173 Speaker 4: keep you safe. 1215 01:21:13,413 --> 01:21:14,653 Speaker 2: Well, that's convenience too. 1216 01:21:14,973 --> 01:21:20,573 Speaker 4: Quite confused and everything every and I mean the left 1217 01:21:20,933 --> 01:21:26,373 Speaker 4: or those or tyrants are fantastic at the language. They 1218 01:21:26,373 --> 01:21:28,973 Speaker 4: don't have an argument, They've just got a great language. 1219 01:21:29,493 --> 01:21:34,253 Speaker 4: So everything is sold to us as a sound bite, 1220 01:21:35,053 --> 01:21:41,373 Speaker 4: endlessly repeated and literally there's been a few hundred sound 1221 01:21:41,373 --> 01:21:46,813 Speaker 4: bites that have brought Western civilization to its nees. And 1222 01:21:46,853 --> 01:21:50,773 Speaker 4: we on the right, by the way, or conservatives, always 1223 01:21:50,813 --> 01:21:52,093 Speaker 4: feel the need to concede. 1224 01:21:52,973 --> 01:21:56,693 Speaker 2: Why is that short answer? 1225 01:21:57,373 --> 01:22:02,493 Speaker 4: Social standing, and we don't want to lose the argument. 1226 01:22:03,653 --> 01:22:05,173 Speaker 3: And I now. 1227 01:22:06,453 --> 01:22:11,013 Speaker 4: Admire those who lost the amen that stood firm. I've 1228 01:22:11,013 --> 01:22:14,573 Speaker 4: got a great admiration now for Patricia Bartlett. 1229 01:22:15,213 --> 01:22:18,813 Speaker 3: Too late, yes, but I can still admire her. 1230 01:22:20,093 --> 01:22:22,293 Speaker 2: Can I tell you no? Of course I can. It's 1231 01:22:22,293 --> 01:22:26,213 Speaker 2: my podcast m I'll tell you a little story about 1232 01:22:26,413 --> 01:22:31,813 Speaker 2: Patricia Bartlett. I used to mock her in my Wellington days. 1233 01:22:32,173 --> 01:22:36,453 Speaker 2: When I ended up in Auckland. Years later, she wrote 1234 01:22:36,453 --> 01:22:39,933 Speaker 2: to me, and I had reached a point where I 1235 01:22:40,053 --> 01:22:43,773 Speaker 2: had realized that there was much more to Patricia Bartlett 1236 01:22:43,813 --> 01:22:47,733 Speaker 2: than a joke, and we wrote to each other electronically, 1237 01:22:47,973 --> 01:22:51,613 Speaker 2: although she did write letters. A few times. She wrote 1238 01:22:51,613 --> 01:22:56,053 Speaker 2: to me and I wrote back to her, and like you, 1239 01:22:57,013 --> 01:23:00,613 Speaker 2: I had developed by that stage a regard for her 1240 01:23:01,093 --> 01:23:04,253 Speaker 2: that had never entered my more juvenile mind. 1241 01:23:06,333 --> 01:23:10,253 Speaker 4: Quick story, and nine seventy five I turned up to 1242 01:23:10,293 --> 01:23:13,693 Speaker 4: the University of Canterbury. Peter Dunn was the president of 1243 01:23:13,733 --> 01:23:18,693 Speaker 4: the Canterbury Students Association, and in that first orientation week 1244 01:23:18,853 --> 01:23:23,373 Speaker 4: I went to everything and never attended another thing. Patricia 1245 01:23:23,413 --> 01:23:27,893 Speaker 4: Bartlett came along to the Niomass Theater and spoke, and 1246 01:23:27,933 --> 01:23:32,773 Speaker 4: she explained how men having playboys beside the bed were 1247 01:23:32,813 --> 01:23:39,773 Speaker 4: destroying their marriage and their family. The students hooted and 1248 01:23:40,053 --> 01:23:46,253 Speaker 4: yelled at her and was throwing condoms at her, and 1249 01:23:46,453 --> 01:23:51,573 Speaker 4: I sat there ashamed. I never agreed with her message 1250 01:23:52,133 --> 01:23:57,053 Speaker 4: because I was in favor of free speech and playboys. 1251 01:23:57,053 --> 01:23:58,093 Speaker 3: What's the big problem? 1252 01:23:58,413 --> 01:24:01,973 Speaker 4: I watched this frail lady stand there with her message 1253 01:24:02,413 --> 01:24:07,453 Speaker 4: against an audience that was one hundred percent against her 1254 01:24:09,053 --> 01:24:13,493 Speaker 4: and egging each other on to abuse her. She never flinched. 1255 01:24:13,773 --> 01:24:17,413 Speaker 4: At the time, I thought I'd disagree with her message. 1256 01:24:17,893 --> 01:24:22,053 Speaker 4: But that's the bravest woman I've ever seen. Now I 1257 01:24:22,133 --> 01:24:23,893 Speaker 4: agree with your message. 1258 01:24:23,893 --> 01:24:28,653 Speaker 2: You reckon, There would be room for acceptance for a 1259 01:24:28,733 --> 01:24:29,773 Speaker 2: posthumous award. 1260 01:24:30,573 --> 01:24:31,653 Speaker 3: Fascinating, isn't it? 1261 01:24:31,973 --> 01:24:35,093 Speaker 4: Apart from our listeners, and some of them will disagree 1262 01:24:35,133 --> 01:24:39,853 Speaker 4: with us. Very few New Zealanders would appreciate the need 1263 01:24:39,973 --> 01:24:45,053 Speaker 4: for guardrails or lines in the sand. We have primary 1264 01:24:45,053 --> 01:24:50,573 Speaker 4: school kids waiting for the school bus with their smartphones 1265 01:24:50,773 --> 01:24:52,133 Speaker 4: watching hardcore porn. 1266 01:24:52,933 --> 01:24:55,373 Speaker 2: I was going to raise that at one stage when 1267 01:24:55,373 --> 01:25:00,573 Speaker 2: you were talking about the situation of a Waker Tippoo 1268 01:25:00,853 --> 01:25:05,093 Speaker 2: High school earlier on that those thirteen year olds. I 1269 01:25:05,093 --> 01:25:08,133 Speaker 2: don't know about the girls. Certainly the boys are probably 1270 01:25:08,853 --> 01:25:13,533 Speaker 2: watching plenty of it. Yes, so the argument might be 1271 01:25:14,813 --> 01:25:18,573 Speaker 2: I shouldn't raise this now. But the argument might be, well, 1272 01:25:18,973 --> 01:25:22,973 Speaker 2: if they're watching it online, then what's the problem with 1273 01:25:23,133 --> 01:25:25,253 Speaker 2: teaching them the things that you were suggesting? 1274 01:25:25,613 --> 01:25:29,613 Speaker 4: Well, I do my utmost to keep it from my children. 1275 01:25:30,373 --> 01:25:35,773 Speaker 4: Second of all, I don't want to normalize it. When 1276 01:25:35,773 --> 01:25:37,893 Speaker 4: I was a little kid and we looked at a playboy, 1277 01:25:39,453 --> 01:25:42,853 Speaker 4: we thought it was extremely naughty and we didn't want 1278 01:25:42,893 --> 01:25:45,533 Speaker 4: the school teacher to find it, find us with it 1279 01:25:46,093 --> 01:25:49,413 Speaker 4: or appearance, because we knew we'd be beaten black and blue, 1280 01:25:49,453 --> 01:25:53,173 Speaker 4: because we knew it was wrong. When you start teaching 1281 01:25:53,333 --> 01:25:59,413 Speaker 4: this in school as though it's normal, you're normalizing it. 1282 01:26:00,573 --> 01:26:05,893 Speaker 4: So we're normalizing sexual experience for twelve and thirteen year olds. 1283 01:26:06,493 --> 01:26:11,453 Speaker 4: They're not emotionally ready for what sexual experience. It won't 1284 01:26:11,493 --> 01:26:14,693 Speaker 4: lead to a good outcome and it won't lead to 1285 01:26:14,693 --> 01:26:19,213 Speaker 4: a fulfilling marriage and a good family, and so that's 1286 01:26:19,253 --> 01:26:22,493 Speaker 4: what's wrong with it. It's terrible that the appearance of 1287 01:26:22,573 --> 01:26:25,733 Speaker 4: that their kids watch hardcore porn, but that doesn't mean 1288 01:26:25,813 --> 01:26:29,493 Speaker 4: that because they do. Mister King at the Walkertippo High 1289 01:26:29,533 --> 01:26:33,773 Speaker 4: School should be texting my daughter at thirteen how to 1290 01:26:33,893 --> 01:26:36,773 Speaker 4: lube and protect herself should she want to have anal sex. 1291 01:26:38,173 --> 01:26:42,533 Speaker 2: And on thatsavory note, I will say once again thank you. 1292 01:26:42,573 --> 01:26:45,173 Speaker 2: It's been two years. As we mentioned at the top, 1293 01:26:45,693 --> 01:26:48,453 Speaker 2: maybe we should maybe we should back up a little 1294 01:26:48,453 --> 01:26:49,013 Speaker 2: earlier than that. 1295 01:26:50,173 --> 01:26:52,493 Speaker 4: Well, lady, and I can't tell you how much I 1296 01:26:52,653 --> 01:26:58,853 Speaker 4: enjoy your interviews and being interviewed by you. 1297 01:26:58,853 --> 01:27:00,893 Speaker 3: You're a wonderful human being and a gentleman. 1298 01:27:02,333 --> 01:27:04,493 Speaker 2: You're too generous and some people would argue with you 1299 01:27:04,573 --> 01:27:11,853 Speaker 2: quite with some volatility, and I have great admiration for 1300 01:27:11,893 --> 01:27:15,533 Speaker 2: the stance that you take and that you continue to develop. 1301 01:27:16,453 --> 01:27:21,973 Speaker 4: So thank you and Rivadecci, thank you Lagen, thank you Leiden, 1302 01:27:22,013 --> 01:27:24,093 Speaker 4: and please put in a plug for lit. 1303 01:27:24,013 --> 01:27:24,773 Speaker 3: Kids be kids. 1304 01:27:25,373 --> 01:27:26,293 Speaker 2: You do it right now. 1305 01:27:27,133 --> 01:27:29,773 Speaker 4: Oh look, there's a community of parents and grandparents that 1306 01:27:29,813 --> 01:27:33,453 Speaker 4: are concerned about this. Google us lick kids be kids 1307 01:27:33,773 --> 01:27:38,573 Speaker 4: and sign up and get armed and get strong because 1308 01:27:38,613 --> 01:27:39,573 Speaker 4: we're building an army. 1309 01:27:40,293 --> 01:27:41,413 Speaker 2: Let kids be kids. 1310 01:27:42,173 --> 01:27:43,133 Speaker 3: Let kids be kids. 1311 01:27:43,453 --> 01:27:44,093 Speaker 2: Talk to you soon. 1312 01:27:45,053 --> 01:28:02,533 Speaker 3: Thank you. Laighton Smith, the Male. 1313 01:28:02,413 --> 01:28:05,013 Speaker 2: Room for Podcasts two hundred and seventy five, Business producer. 1314 01:28:05,053 --> 01:28:05,853 Speaker 2: You're well, aren't you? 1315 01:28:05,933 --> 01:28:07,133 Speaker 3: Late? Not great? How are you? 1316 01:28:07,213 --> 01:28:08,973 Speaker 2: I don't know why. I think put it on rote 1317 01:28:09,093 --> 01:28:13,693 Speaker 2: always good. I'll put it on rot good. Life is good, excellent. 1318 01:28:14,413 --> 01:28:17,533 Speaker 2: Why don't you? Because there's a mixture this week, and 1319 01:28:17,693 --> 01:28:21,333 Speaker 2: I've restricted the number because I've got two very long letters, 1320 01:28:21,733 --> 01:28:24,493 Speaker 2: but they both need they both need sharing. 1321 01:28:24,773 --> 01:28:26,893 Speaker 5: So and I've got some very long ones as well. 1322 01:28:26,933 --> 01:28:31,293 Speaker 6: And I'm sure these people will understand if we sort 1323 01:28:31,293 --> 01:28:33,733 Speaker 6: of shave them a tiny bit, because otherwise we'll still 1324 01:28:33,773 --> 01:28:35,613 Speaker 6: be here next week doing these letters. 1325 01:28:35,613 --> 01:28:36,413 Speaker 5: But thank you so. 1326 01:28:36,533 --> 01:28:38,893 Speaker 2: Much for your input. 1327 01:28:39,093 --> 01:28:41,573 Speaker 5: Input. Yes is the word, so Jin says. 1328 01:28:41,733 --> 01:28:44,213 Speaker 6: A few weeks ago, my doctor called me for the 1329 01:28:44,293 --> 01:28:47,293 Speaker 6: second time to encourage me to take my booster jab 1330 01:28:47,413 --> 01:28:51,853 Speaker 6: for tetanus. In normal circumstances, I would have willingly complied, 1331 01:28:52,013 --> 01:28:54,973 Speaker 6: but I don't live in normal circumstances. I'm living in 1332 01:28:55,133 --> 01:28:59,933 Speaker 6: twenty twenty five PC, that is twenty twenty five post COVID. 1333 01:29:00,373 --> 01:29:02,853 Speaker 6: After falling for the lies about the COVID vaccine, I 1334 01:29:02,973 --> 01:29:06,253 Speaker 6: now question the necessity of every single vaccine. And upon 1335 01:29:06,413 --> 01:29:09,613 Speaker 6: listening to your podcast with James, I am thinking of 1336 01:29:09,653 --> 01:29:13,173 Speaker 6: giving my tetanus boost a JAB A miss. Don't Jin 1337 01:29:13,333 --> 01:29:17,293 Speaker 6: have the tetanus tetanus jab and James isn't alone. Candice 1338 01:29:17,333 --> 01:29:19,973 Speaker 6: Owns ran a whole video series, A Shot in the Dark, 1339 01:29:20,013 --> 01:29:24,333 Speaker 6: which uncovered the ugly truths about vaccines, and doctor Robert 1340 01:29:24,333 --> 01:29:28,493 Speaker 6: Malone exposed the dangers of mr NA vaccines on vaccines 1341 01:29:28,533 --> 01:29:32,293 Speaker 6: on Joe Rogan's podcast, Jin, thank you for the rest 1342 01:29:32,333 --> 01:29:34,213 Speaker 6: of it, but I'll just end up by saying, the 1343 01:29:34,253 --> 01:29:38,333 Speaker 6: post COVID era is an era of mistrust. That is 1344 01:29:38,613 --> 01:29:40,973 Speaker 6: a belief that I have to I understand that, Jin. 1345 01:29:41,573 --> 01:29:44,093 Speaker 6: We don't trust the politicians, we don't trust the media, 1346 01:29:44,173 --> 01:29:47,693 Speaker 6: we don't trust the justice system, and now we sometimes 1347 01:29:47,693 --> 01:29:50,933 Speaker 6: don't even trust our own doctors. Perhaps it's time we 1348 01:29:51,053 --> 01:29:54,373 Speaker 6: started trusting our judgments. Perhaps it's time for the next 1349 01:29:54,413 --> 01:29:55,653 Speaker 6: age of enlightenment. 1350 01:29:56,373 --> 01:30:00,493 Speaker 2: From Yeah, and I would endorse the tetanus shot im 1351 01:30:00,613 --> 01:30:04,093 Speaker 2: mist I have I had them. I had one last year, 1352 01:30:04,293 --> 01:30:08,373 Speaker 2: and I think I have shown note real signs. 1353 01:30:08,053 --> 01:30:09,733 Speaker 5: As a resultness. 1354 01:30:10,093 --> 01:30:14,013 Speaker 2: That's the main thing now from mer Julian, once again 1355 01:30:14,053 --> 01:30:16,813 Speaker 2: a wonderful podcast, and just a comment on your initial 1356 01:30:16,853 --> 01:30:20,613 Speaker 2: discussion regarding Ukraine. I take it from your citing of 1357 01:30:20,693 --> 01:30:24,893 Speaker 2: various opinions that you're not a fan of Zelensky and 1358 01:30:25,013 --> 01:30:29,493 Speaker 2: his oval office performance. I spoke to a Ukrainian woman 1359 01:30:29,493 --> 01:30:32,893 Speaker 2: this morning who still has contacts in her country, and 1360 01:30:33,213 --> 01:30:37,533 Speaker 2: it confirmed my suspicion that Zelensky still holds majority support 1361 01:30:37,653 --> 01:30:42,493 Speaker 2: within Ukraine. The fact that the administration has suspended elections 1362 01:30:43,133 --> 01:30:47,333 Speaker 2: is often disingenuously used as proof of Zelensky's dictatorial nature, 1363 01:30:47,573 --> 01:30:51,133 Speaker 2: and even Trump has stated this, which I might add 1364 01:30:51,173 --> 01:30:55,813 Speaker 2: he recently dismissed wanting to move when questioned. I presume 1365 01:30:56,093 --> 01:30:59,293 Speaker 2: that if an election were to be held now, he 1366 01:30:59,333 --> 01:31:02,133 Speaker 2: would still hold power, but that's not to say that 1367 01:31:02,173 --> 01:31:05,893 Speaker 2: when the elections resume, he would suffer the same fate 1368 01:31:05,933 --> 01:31:09,373 Speaker 2: as Churchill after the war ends. In terms of the 1369 01:31:09,413 --> 01:31:14,253 Speaker 2: press conference, it was clear that although tense, it was 1370 01:31:14,613 --> 01:31:18,733 Speaker 2: only until forty two minutes so long when Vance chipped 1371 01:31:18,733 --> 01:31:22,093 Speaker 2: in that things changed for the worst, and Zelensky folded 1372 01:31:22,133 --> 01:31:25,693 Speaker 2: his arms and rest as history. Zelensky has a right 1373 01:31:25,733 --> 01:31:28,573 Speaker 2: to feel highly suspicious of Number one Putin, who has 1374 01:31:28,613 --> 01:31:33,293 Speaker 2: broken many agreements at America, Inc. For not following through 1375 01:31:33,453 --> 01:31:38,333 Speaker 2: on protection when Ukraine relinquished their nuclear weapons. I thank 1376 01:31:38,373 --> 01:31:41,133 Speaker 2: you in advance for allowing me to exercise my write 1377 01:31:41,133 --> 01:31:45,373 Speaker 2: at free speech PS. I am a Trump supporter, but 1378 01:31:45,453 --> 01:31:46,933 Speaker 2: not on this occasion. 1379 01:31:48,253 --> 01:31:51,813 Speaker 6: Layton Brett has written a very lengthy letter Brett, thank 1380 01:31:51,853 --> 01:31:54,373 Speaker 6: you so much. He gives to start with a couple 1381 01:31:54,413 --> 01:32:03,613 Speaker 6: of examples where pharmaceutical based medicines weren't used very appropriateriately 1382 01:32:03,693 --> 01:32:07,213 Speaker 6: and these people got better. I know you've read it, 1383 01:32:07,253 --> 01:32:09,413 Speaker 6: so you understand what he's talking about, but it's very long. 1384 01:32:09,853 --> 01:32:11,613 Speaker 6: So Bret goes on to say, there are so many 1385 01:32:11,653 --> 01:32:15,453 Speaker 6: stories I know of personally myself included, where health lay 1386 01:32:15,533 --> 01:32:20,893 Speaker 6: outside the pharmaceutical based medical profession. Our medical profession does 1387 01:32:20,933 --> 01:32:24,053 Speaker 6: have its place. There are some good people doing their best. 1388 01:32:24,333 --> 01:32:27,973 Speaker 6: However needs to be treated with all due caution. A 1389 01:32:28,013 --> 01:32:31,533 Speaker 6: lot of harm also occurs. The medical profession is said 1390 01:32:31,533 --> 01:32:34,253 Speaker 6: to be the biggest killer in the US. There is 1391 01:32:34,413 --> 01:32:37,853 Speaker 6: foundation for this and Brett goes on to say caution 1392 01:32:37,973 --> 01:32:41,133 Speaker 6: is advised no matter which health journey or avenue one 1393 01:32:41,253 --> 01:32:44,333 Speaker 6: might take. Finding the right path for yourself and right 1394 01:32:44,413 --> 01:32:46,613 Speaker 6: help is a challenge and is so much. There is 1395 01:32:46,613 --> 01:32:49,093 Speaker 6: so much to learn. There's good and bad whatever the 1396 01:32:49,133 --> 01:32:51,493 Speaker 6: field or walk of life, and the right fit for 1397 01:32:51,613 --> 01:32:55,293 Speaker 6: one may not be so for another. He says, it 1398 01:32:55,333 --> 01:32:58,693 Speaker 6: should also be noted that not all information is good information, 1399 01:32:58,933 --> 01:33:02,013 Speaker 6: which also presents its own challenges for each of us 1400 01:33:02,053 --> 01:33:05,533 Speaker 6: when dealing with health issues. Some solutions may in fact 1401 01:33:05,573 --> 01:33:09,133 Speaker 6: be very simple. Addressing the root cause of the imbalance 1402 01:33:09,293 --> 01:33:13,253 Speaker 6: in our biology then often allows biology to self correct. 1403 01:33:13,933 --> 01:33:17,093 Speaker 6: Your guest may have ruffled some feathers and some quarters. 1404 01:33:17,133 --> 01:33:20,133 Speaker 6: Each must take from it what is valid and useful 1405 01:33:20,173 --> 01:33:21,693 Speaker 6: for them, and that's from breaks. 1406 01:33:21,813 --> 01:33:23,693 Speaker 2: Thanks and then just passed me that if you would, 1407 01:33:23,693 --> 01:33:25,653 Speaker 2: because I want to quote that again in a moment 1408 01:33:26,213 --> 01:33:29,493 Speaker 2: at the end of this late and I'm a regular 1409 01:33:29,573 --> 01:33:33,253 Speaker 2: and long time listener to your podcasts. Podcast two seven 1410 01:33:33,413 --> 01:33:37,853 Speaker 2: four gave a very interesting perspective on Zelenski. I'm quite 1411 01:33:37,973 --> 01:33:41,173 Speaker 2: right wing by the way, add a big Trump supporter. 1412 01:33:42,413 --> 01:33:46,413 Speaker 2: Then followed the interview with James Ruguski, how could you 1413 01:33:46,493 --> 01:33:49,853 Speaker 2: be sucked in by this nutcase. I can't believe that 1414 01:33:49,933 --> 01:33:53,373 Speaker 2: you would ever give him airspace. I certainly didn't agree 1415 01:33:53,413 --> 01:33:57,093 Speaker 2: with his COVID vaccine restrictions, but this guy goes way 1416 01:33:57,133 --> 01:34:00,813 Speaker 2: beyond that. His views are dangerous, and his disregard of 1417 01:34:00,853 --> 01:34:04,413 Speaker 2: the medical profession is an insult. I've now lost faith 1418 01:34:04,533 --> 01:34:09,253 Speaker 2: in your judgment. Might not tune in again. I bet 1419 01:34:09,293 --> 01:34:13,293 Speaker 2: you're there listening to this now, and I have. I 1420 01:34:13,373 --> 01:34:17,093 Speaker 2: have a couple of responses for you. One is, I 1421 01:34:17,173 --> 01:34:20,653 Speaker 2: note your address. I live four doors down the road 1422 01:34:21,133 --> 01:34:25,373 Speaker 2: for three years. How about that. Here's the second one, 1423 01:34:25,413 --> 01:34:29,333 Speaker 2: and it's why I asked Carolyn to passby the letter 1424 01:34:29,373 --> 01:34:33,333 Speaker 2: from Brett, and it summarizes my feeling in regard to 1425 01:34:33,453 --> 01:34:36,853 Speaker 2: what you have said. It should also be noted, wrote Brett, 1426 01:34:37,173 --> 01:34:40,253 Speaker 2: that not all information is good information, which also prevents 1427 01:34:40,293 --> 01:34:42,573 Speaker 2: its own challenges for each of us when dealing with 1428 01:34:42,653 --> 01:34:46,373 Speaker 2: health issues. Some solutions may in fact be very simple. 1429 01:34:46,813 --> 01:34:49,493 Speaker 2: Addressing the root cause of the imbalance in our biology 1430 01:34:49,733 --> 01:34:53,773 Speaker 2: then often allows biology to self correct. Your recent guest 1431 01:34:54,453 --> 01:34:58,373 Speaker 2: may ruffle some feathers in some quarters. Each must take 1432 01:34:58,413 --> 01:35:02,133 Speaker 2: from it what is valid and useful to them, and 1433 01:35:02,173 --> 01:35:06,493 Speaker 2: that's the way that I feel about it because people 1434 01:35:06,493 --> 01:35:09,253 Speaker 2: have got different backgrounds, different ideas, all sorts of things, 1435 01:35:09,573 --> 01:35:13,133 Speaker 2: and I'm prepared to take a gamble on occasions and 1436 01:35:13,253 --> 01:35:17,093 Speaker 2: share stuff that I know will upset some people. But 1437 01:35:17,133 --> 01:35:20,853 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be heard and dealt 1438 01:35:20,893 --> 01:35:23,053 Speaker 2: with by us as individuals. 1439 01:35:23,453 --> 01:35:28,253 Speaker 6: Carolyn Layton, I have got something from Chris, he says 1440 01:35:28,613 --> 01:35:30,373 Speaker 6: regarding the long letter you read at the end of 1441 01:35:30,453 --> 01:35:33,253 Speaker 6: mail Room two seventy four. So much of what the 1442 01:35:33,293 --> 01:35:36,653 Speaker 6: correspondent said in his long letter could be applied to Australia. 1443 01:35:37,093 --> 01:35:39,133 Speaker 6: On another matter, by the way, if you do decide 1444 01:35:39,133 --> 01:35:41,733 Speaker 6: to visit Canberra, I would like to meet you. I 1445 01:35:41,733 --> 01:35:44,093 Speaker 6: have lived in Canberra for thirty three years now and 1446 01:35:44,253 --> 01:35:48,413 Speaker 6: has changed a lot. You wouldn't recognize it. Unfortunately, like 1447 01:35:48,453 --> 01:35:51,253 Speaker 6: a lot of cities these days, it's been overtaken by 1448 01:35:51,373 --> 01:35:55,133 Speaker 6: high rise apartment buildings instead of building houses on quarter 1449 01:35:55,173 --> 01:35:57,733 Speaker 6: acre lots as used to be the case. Even the 1450 01:35:57,733 --> 01:36:00,213 Speaker 6: freestanding houses that are being built are being built on 1451 01:36:00,333 --> 01:36:05,333 Speaker 6: much smaller lots, most of which are very small backyards. Unfortunately, 1452 01:36:05,373 --> 01:36:08,333 Speaker 6: we have a Radical label government, which until the October 1453 01:36:08,493 --> 01:36:12,333 Speaker 6: twenty twenty four election, had been a Labour Greens government 1454 01:36:12,773 --> 01:36:15,933 Speaker 6: for at least twelve years, if not more. This government 1455 01:36:15,973 --> 01:36:19,533 Speaker 6: has been and continues to be as radical as the 1456 01:36:19,573 --> 01:36:23,373 Speaker 6: Andrews government in Victoria, although during COVID it was not 1457 01:36:23,413 --> 01:36:26,573 Speaker 6: as trigger happy on lockdowns as the Andrews government. 1458 01:36:27,013 --> 01:36:27,773 Speaker 5: That's from Chris. 1459 01:36:28,333 --> 01:36:30,973 Speaker 2: Chris, appreciate the offer and I will take you up 1460 01:36:30,973 --> 01:36:34,933 Speaker 2: on it should the occasion occur. You are the only 1461 01:36:35,093 --> 01:36:37,893 Speaker 2: he is the only contact that I have with Canberra. 1462 01:36:39,693 --> 01:36:41,773 Speaker 5: Do you have nobody else who writes from Canberra that 1463 01:36:41,853 --> 01:36:42,373 Speaker 5: you know of? 1464 01:36:42,533 --> 01:36:44,733 Speaker 2: Not that I know of, But I mean after spending 1465 01:36:44,733 --> 01:36:47,213 Speaker 2: two years at a and you what I'm saying is 1466 01:36:47,853 --> 01:36:51,013 Speaker 2: and buying a house there. What I'm saying is that 1467 01:36:51,053 --> 01:36:54,133 Speaker 2: he's my only contact with an old stopping ground. 1468 01:36:54,133 --> 01:36:56,093 Speaker 5: It was a long time ago later, so it. 1469 01:36:56,013 --> 01:37:00,013 Speaker 2: Would be that I mentioned that my father, being an architect, 1470 01:37:00,413 --> 01:37:04,893 Speaker 2: designed the very first motel in Canberra. It's true I 1471 01:37:04,933 --> 01:37:06,693 Speaker 2: went there on a couple of occasions with him as 1472 01:37:06,693 --> 01:37:07,613 Speaker 2: a young person. 1473 01:37:08,533 --> 01:37:11,933 Speaker 6: You mentioned the circus that was the entire day up 1474 01:37:12,133 --> 01:37:15,893 Speaker 6: in the northern part of New South Wales in January 1475 01:37:15,893 --> 01:37:19,213 Speaker 6: where we went on a wild goose chase looking for 1476 01:37:19,333 --> 01:37:22,533 Speaker 6: something your father had built, but we never found it. 1477 01:37:22,533 --> 01:37:24,333 Speaker 2: Did we know there was a block of apartments on 1478 01:37:24,533 --> 01:37:31,773 Speaker 2: the seashore. The place had changed so much you couldn't recognize. Well, 1479 01:37:31,813 --> 01:37:32,973 Speaker 2: probably the aspect of. 1480 01:37:32,973 --> 01:37:35,173 Speaker 6: That block of land had probably been built on three 1481 01:37:35,213 --> 01:37:36,013 Speaker 6: times since then. 1482 01:37:36,253 --> 01:37:38,333 Speaker 2: I don't think so. It was a good solid block 1483 01:37:38,373 --> 01:37:43,013 Speaker 2: of apartments, not a huge one about three or four 1484 01:37:43,053 --> 01:37:46,453 Speaker 2: stories tall as all. Anyway, we couldn't find it, but 1485 01:37:46,493 --> 01:37:50,133 Speaker 2: we tried. Now this is this is a very important one, 1486 01:37:50,653 --> 01:37:55,453 Speaker 2: and I think and I think Bethie'll appreciate it too. 1487 01:37:56,573 --> 01:38:00,973 Speaker 2: From Linden, thank you for your latest guest, James Ruguski. 1488 01:38:01,933 --> 01:38:04,333 Speaker 2: I do enjoy listening to him. I don't agree with 1489 01:38:04,373 --> 01:38:07,013 Speaker 2: everything he says, but I loved the process of challenging 1490 01:38:07,053 --> 01:38:11,733 Speaker 2: my perspectives and in knowledge as a doctor. I concur 1491 01:38:11,973 --> 01:38:15,133 Speaker 2: that eighty percent of the so called facts about COVID 1492 01:38:15,613 --> 01:38:19,333 Speaker 2: are not correct, and he puts not in other case, 1493 01:38:20,173 --> 01:38:24,613 Speaker 2: I think, in other words, he's determined that's right. I 1494 01:38:24,613 --> 01:38:27,853 Speaker 2: think the World Health Organization should be disbanded and ignored, 1495 01:38:28,493 --> 01:38:32,733 Speaker 2: and it is not uncommon to find research challenging historical beliefs, 1496 01:38:32,733 --> 01:38:36,653 Speaker 2: and therefore we need to adjust current practice. This is medicine, 1497 01:38:36,813 --> 01:38:41,373 Speaker 2: This is science as an aside part of My role 1498 01:38:41,533 --> 01:38:45,093 Speaker 2: is to peer review research before publication. I'm used by 1499 01:38:45,133 --> 01:38:48,693 Speaker 2: a number of well acclaimed international journals. Don't worry latent. 1500 01:38:48,813 --> 01:38:52,013 Speaker 2: I am not an expert, and in brackets, I detest 1501 01:38:52,093 --> 01:38:55,413 Speaker 2: the word. But I am pretty good at looking through 1502 01:38:55,453 --> 01:39:01,733 Speaker 2: facts and figures, understanding statistics, spotting data manipulation and industry bias. Interestingly, 1503 01:39:01,773 --> 01:39:04,813 Speaker 2: I reject more than nine out of ten articles said 1504 01:39:04,853 --> 01:39:08,333 Speaker 2: to me as they don't fulfill the criteria of good science. 1505 01:39:09,133 --> 01:39:12,133 Speaker 2: Pretty high number. But I have to say that while 1506 01:39:12,173 --> 01:39:15,013 Speaker 2: any reasonable doctor knows that medicine does not have all 1507 01:39:15,053 --> 01:39:18,013 Speaker 2: the answers, I still get up every morning striving to 1508 01:39:18,053 --> 01:39:22,333 Speaker 2: care for my patients, expanding my knowledge and sacrificing time 1509 01:39:22,373 --> 01:39:25,773 Speaker 2: and energy so other people's lives will be better. I'm 1510 01:39:25,813 --> 01:39:28,853 Speaker 2: not in it for the money. I am, despite James's 1511 01:39:28,973 --> 01:39:33,733 Speaker 2: book title, most certainly not a liar. I think something 1512 01:39:33,773 --> 01:39:37,573 Speaker 2: else I forgot to mention from my perspective from James's 1513 01:39:37,573 --> 01:39:40,813 Speaker 2: book and his attitude, is that he is an American, 1514 01:39:41,293 --> 01:39:47,373 Speaker 2: and in America, as the saying goes, the medical field 1515 01:39:47,613 --> 01:39:50,693 Speaker 2: is responsible for the biggest number of deaths or something 1516 01:39:50,733 --> 01:39:56,133 Speaker 2: along those lines. It's said by responsible people anyway. But 1517 01:39:56,213 --> 01:39:59,493 Speaker 2: I have to say that while any reasonable doctor I 1518 01:39:59,533 --> 01:40:03,293 Speaker 2: did that, you should know that not everything James stated 1519 01:40:03,413 --> 01:40:06,773 Speaker 2: is true. Listening to him speak, it is clear he 1520 01:40:06,853 --> 01:40:10,573 Speaker 2: is very well read, but he also doesn't understand everything 1521 01:40:10,613 --> 01:40:12,973 Speaker 2: about how the human body works, and some of the 1522 01:40:13,053 --> 01:40:19,733 Speaker 2: physiology knowledge, and some of his physiology knowledge is inaccurate. 1523 01:40:20,533 --> 01:40:23,933 Speaker 2: If I may a quick example, James stated that I 1524 01:40:24,533 --> 01:40:26,693 Speaker 2: know a few people who have had nasal swab tests 1525 01:40:26,773 --> 01:40:29,853 Speaker 2: for COVID that went up and damaged the nasal cavity, 1526 01:40:30,053 --> 01:40:32,733 Speaker 2: so the fluid around the brain leaked out and gave 1527 01:40:32,773 --> 01:40:38,013 Speaker 2: them long term problems. Is he suggesting that a nasal 1528 01:40:38,053 --> 01:40:41,213 Speaker 2: swab went through the nose, managed to get past two 1529 01:40:41,333 --> 01:40:46,533 Speaker 2: large inferior and middle conture, ripped through the nasal mucosa, 1530 01:40:47,253 --> 01:40:55,613 Speaker 2: then rupture the periosteum. That might be a mispronunciation of 1531 01:40:55,653 --> 01:41:00,773 Speaker 2: the bone, smash through the thick ethmoid bone, then through 1532 01:41:00,813 --> 01:41:05,893 Speaker 2: another layer of perio steam staem, punch through a couple 1533 01:41:05,893 --> 01:41:12,373 Speaker 2: of layers of meninges to where it would encounter the 1534 01:41:12,373 --> 01:41:14,853 Speaker 2: CSF fluid that protects our brain. 1535 01:41:15,453 --> 01:41:16,973 Speaker 5: I think you should just that's source. 1536 01:41:17,373 --> 01:41:17,853 Speaker 2: You don't know. 1537 01:41:18,253 --> 01:41:20,173 Speaker 6: You don't know whether you're pronouncing any of that right. 1538 01:41:20,573 --> 01:41:24,213 Speaker 6: It's just nobod, It's why don't you just say a 1539 01:41:24,253 --> 01:41:27,373 Speaker 6: litany of tissue? 1540 01:41:28,053 --> 01:41:30,653 Speaker 2: See what I have to put up with? Christian, don't 1541 01:41:30,693 --> 01:41:31,133 Speaker 2: ever have a. 1542 01:41:31,093 --> 01:41:34,773 Speaker 6: Producers a litany of tissue? And then he goes on 1543 01:41:34,813 --> 01:41:35,373 Speaker 6: to James. 1544 01:41:35,493 --> 01:41:37,693 Speaker 2: James stated, I know a few people who had a 1545 01:41:37,813 --> 01:41:41,453 Speaker 2: naval swab test for COVID that went up and damaged 1546 01:41:41,493 --> 01:41:43,853 Speaker 2: the nasal cavity, so the fluid around the brain leaked 1547 01:41:43,893 --> 01:41:48,333 Speaker 2: out and gave them long term problems. Is he suggesting 1548 01:41:49,133 --> 01:41:51,413 Speaker 2: that a nasal swab went through the nose, managed to 1549 01:41:51,413 --> 01:41:55,653 Speaker 2: get past two large inferior and middle conture, ripped through 1550 01:41:56,093 --> 01:42:00,973 Speaker 2: the nasal mucosa, and on egos, mentioning a number of 1551 01:42:01,053 --> 01:42:07,053 Speaker 2: other things that the swab had to defeat to achieve 1552 01:42:07,133 --> 01:42:12,173 Speaker 2: what James was I'm not here to argue lately this 1553 01:42:12,213 --> 01:42:14,733 Speaker 2: can be achieved, but it can take a ten centimeter 1554 01:42:14,853 --> 01:42:18,773 Speaker 2: long drill on power and would take three or four 1555 01:42:18,813 --> 01:42:21,973 Speaker 2: seconds to drill through the bone. So what James said 1556 01:42:22,013 --> 01:42:24,533 Speaker 2: about this on your show, with all the confidence in 1557 01:42:24,573 --> 01:42:28,973 Speaker 2: the world, was a categorical lie. So while it's great 1558 01:42:29,013 --> 01:42:32,653 Speaker 2: to hear views from all sides, your listeners should be 1559 01:42:32,653 --> 01:42:36,253 Speaker 2: reminded when an articulate person states facts from all their 1560 01:42:36,293 --> 01:42:39,413 Speaker 2: extensive research. This does not mean that they are always 1561 01:42:39,453 --> 01:42:42,533 Speaker 2: telling the truth. Can I just say that maybe he 1562 01:42:43,253 --> 01:42:47,293 Speaker 2: believed what he was saying and wasn't lying, but was 1563 01:42:47,333 --> 01:42:53,813 Speaker 2: making a mistake. I'm just throwing that in another aside, 1564 01:42:53,853 --> 01:42:56,253 Speaker 2: if I made vaccines. As far as the COVID disease 1565 01:42:56,333 --> 01:43:00,733 Speaker 2: moderating drug not vaccine goes, it is not required by 1566 01:43:01,053 --> 01:43:04,453 Speaker 2: ninety five percent of the population. It does have side effects, 1567 01:43:04,813 --> 01:43:09,413 Speaker 2: but nothing as catastrophic as James suggests, but definitely enough 1568 01:43:09,413 --> 01:43:13,133 Speaker 2: to be cautious. As a doctor and a scientist who 1569 01:43:13,173 --> 01:43:15,493 Speaker 2: tries to get to know the facts as best he can, 1570 01:43:15,933 --> 01:43:19,613 Speaker 2: not an expert, I will never have it again, nor 1571 01:43:19,693 --> 01:43:23,493 Speaker 2: will my family. Hysteria aside, When I look at the 1572 01:43:23,813 --> 01:43:27,613 Speaker 2: risk benefit ratio for me, a slightly unfit, mostly healthy, 1573 01:43:27,733 --> 01:43:31,573 Speaker 2: forty eight year old, the risks outweigh the benefit. And 1574 01:43:31,653 --> 01:43:35,733 Speaker 2: here's my hysterical opinion. The commonest regime of forcing this 1575 01:43:35,853 --> 01:43:40,253 Speaker 2: drug into every person or excluding them from society should 1576 01:43:40,293 --> 01:43:43,573 Speaker 2: be put in jail. Very well balanced. Please, please, please, 1577 01:43:43,613 --> 01:43:47,173 Speaker 2: do not tarnish all vaccines with the same brush as 1578 01:43:47,213 --> 01:43:49,973 Speaker 2: the COVID vaccine. No, I don't do that. Most vaccines 1579 01:43:50,013 --> 01:43:52,693 Speaker 2: are incredible the polio vaccine is up there with one 1580 01:43:52,733 --> 01:43:55,533 Speaker 2: of the greatest scientific advancements for humankind in the world 1581 01:43:55,613 --> 01:43:59,453 Speaker 2: for health, extraordinarily safe, and the lives and morbidity it 1582 01:43:59,493 --> 01:44:03,973 Speaker 2: has prevented cannot even be calculated. It is so large. 1583 01:44:04,053 --> 01:44:06,693 Speaker 2: In my short career, I have amputated a baby's leg 1584 01:44:06,773 --> 01:44:10,013 Speaker 2: due to measles complications. I have two children under my 1585 01:44:10,133 --> 01:44:14,133 Speaker 2: care who have cerebral palsy and are fed through a peg, 1586 01:44:14,853 --> 01:44:17,773 Speaker 2: live in a wheelchair, and can't speak as a result 1587 01:44:17,813 --> 01:44:20,973 Speaker 2: of measles infection that spread to their brain. And I 1588 01:44:21,013 --> 01:44:23,293 Speaker 2: have also cared for a young child and watched her 1589 01:44:23,413 --> 01:44:26,893 Speaker 2: die of measles. If ninety five percent of New Zealanders 1590 01:44:26,893 --> 01:44:29,933 Speaker 2: immunized their children from measles, then measles would go the 1591 01:44:29,973 --> 01:44:34,173 Speaker 2: way of polio near eradication. But in the case of measles, 1592 01:44:34,373 --> 01:44:38,813 Speaker 2: hysterical mistruths have given people fear of the extremely safe 1593 01:44:38,853 --> 01:44:43,733 Speaker 2: measles vaccine completely unfounded, just like people still wearing masks 1594 01:44:43,773 --> 01:44:48,613 Speaker 2: outside on their own and just as misinformed. Now there 1595 01:44:48,653 --> 01:44:51,973 Speaker 2: is a little more than the included I also last 1596 01:44:52,053 --> 01:44:56,293 Speaker 2: year had a young man suffer tetanus ah admitted with 1597 01:44:56,373 --> 01:44:59,373 Speaker 2: a simple infection from a cut in his foot. His 1598 01:44:59,533 --> 01:45:02,853 Speaker 2: parents refused to vaccinate him on the grounds of all 1599 01:45:02,933 --> 01:45:07,373 Speaker 2: vaccines are evil and on admission, when offered the short 1600 01:45:07,453 --> 01:45:14,213 Speaker 2: term protection of immunoglobulin, which is good if unimmunized, they 1601 01:45:14,253 --> 01:45:18,653 Speaker 2: refuse this. Also, after six weeks in ICU dialysis machines 1602 01:45:18,693 --> 01:45:22,493 Speaker 2: and being incubated to keep him alive, he thankfully just 1603 01:45:22,773 --> 01:45:26,013 Speaker 2: managed to survive, but his life will never be the 1604 01:45:26,053 --> 01:45:28,693 Speaker 2: same at across the taxpayer. By the way, more than 1605 01:45:28,773 --> 01:45:32,413 Speaker 2: half a million dollars rees care. That's twenty people living 1606 01:45:32,453 --> 01:45:35,893 Speaker 2: in pain with arthritis who won't get their hip replacement 1607 01:45:35,973 --> 01:45:42,653 Speaker 2: this year. A safe tetanus vaccine costs fifty dollars. In short, 1608 01:45:42,893 --> 01:45:46,133 Speaker 2: not all vaccines are evil. In fact, most are excellent. 1609 01:45:46,573 --> 01:45:49,453 Speaker 2: I love your show, Layton. I enjoy hearing views from 1610 01:45:49,533 --> 01:45:53,173 Speaker 2: all angles. In the case of James Raguski, he makes 1611 01:45:53,293 --> 01:45:56,773 Speaker 2: some excellent points. The joy of science is that it 1612 01:45:56,853 --> 01:46:00,693 Speaker 2: is never concluded and we grow and learn. But please 1613 01:46:00,773 --> 01:46:03,893 Speaker 2: tell your listeners that not all doctors are evil. Most 1614 01:46:03,933 --> 01:46:07,253 Speaker 2: of us mistrust Big Farmer more than James. We work 1615 01:46:07,253 --> 01:46:09,653 Speaker 2: in science every day, and not everything that you hear 1616 01:46:09,693 --> 01:46:12,253 Speaker 2: on the radio is true, even if it is on 1617 01:46:12,333 --> 01:46:15,813 Speaker 2: the most excellent latent Smith podcast, keep up the great word, 1618 01:46:16,333 --> 01:46:20,573 Speaker 2: Lindon that I'm going to frame that. Every once in 1619 01:46:20,573 --> 01:46:22,653 Speaker 2: a while something comes along that I want to frame, 1620 01:46:22,733 --> 01:46:24,333 Speaker 2: and that's going in one thank you. 1621 01:46:25,013 --> 01:46:28,653 Speaker 6: It was a very good piece. So finally from me lighton, 1622 01:46:28,733 --> 01:46:31,973 Speaker 6: Brent says, great interview. James is a true freedom fighter, 1623 01:46:32,613 --> 01:46:35,773 Speaker 6: so well informed about the dangers of the WHO. Hence 1624 01:46:35,813 --> 01:46:39,373 Speaker 6: America's exit, as should New Zealand. And then Brent goes 1625 01:46:39,373 --> 01:46:42,173 Speaker 6: on to say, your next interview should be with Dr Bloomfield. 1626 01:46:42,573 --> 01:46:48,893 Speaker 2: Any one of us would emerge missus producer, Thank you 1627 01:46:48,933 --> 01:46:51,653 Speaker 2: for thanks later, see you next week and us some 1628 01:46:51,733 --> 01:46:52,773 Speaker 2: good mail today. 1629 01:46:53,013 --> 01:47:04,693 Speaker 7: It was thank you. 1630 01:47:17,333 --> 01:47:19,093 Speaker 2: I was going to say that I think that there's 1631 01:47:19,173 --> 01:47:24,533 Speaker 2: a great ruckus that is being perpetuated by the circumstances 1632 01:47:24,693 --> 01:47:27,733 Speaker 2: across the planet at the moment, I can't say that 1633 01:47:27,773 --> 01:47:31,133 Speaker 2: because it's not a great ruckus. It's a hugengus, a 1634 01:47:31,293 --> 01:47:37,173 Speaker 2: hugengous ruckus that has people arguing, people picking on people, 1635 01:47:37,533 --> 01:47:40,413 Speaker 2: and people not accepting what other people have to say, etc. 1636 01:47:41,093 --> 01:47:43,853 Speaker 2: And then there is the lying of the cheating, and 1637 01:47:43,973 --> 01:47:46,013 Speaker 2: that's been going on for a long time. There's a 1638 01:47:46,093 --> 01:47:49,293 Speaker 2: number of books, for instance, that expose a lot of 1639 01:47:49,293 --> 01:47:52,813 Speaker 2: it when it comes to science and the world of medicine. Well, 1640 01:47:52,853 --> 01:47:55,573 Speaker 2: medicine is part of the world of science, and it 1641 01:47:55,613 --> 01:47:59,373 Speaker 2: crosses the border such as it is. What about the 1642 01:47:59,413 --> 01:48:04,533 Speaker 2: quote from is regarding a book that has just been released. 1643 01:48:05,093 --> 01:48:09,093 Speaker 2: In fact, I think it hit the shelves today. That 1644 01:48:09,253 --> 01:48:13,133 Speaker 2: is the what are we the ninth and it's the 1645 01:48:13,213 --> 01:48:19,173 Speaker 2: crisis of unreliable science. A pharmacologist call for radical reform, 1646 01:48:20,173 --> 01:48:24,493 Speaker 2: and the author writes, each year biomedical scientists pump out 1647 01:48:24,493 --> 01:48:29,133 Speaker 2: about a million new papers, one million, but a troubling 1648 01:48:29,133 --> 01:48:32,493 Speaker 2: truth hides in plain sight. Much of this work cannot 1649 01:48:32,533 --> 01:48:36,053 Speaker 2: be replicated. Far from a small glitch, this is a 1650 01:48:36,093 --> 01:48:42,093 Speaker 2: colossal crisis, squandering billions, eroding faith in science, and stalling 1651 01:48:42,293 --> 01:48:46,253 Speaker 2: genuine breakthroughs. In an interview with Chemical and Engineering News, 1652 01:48:46,293 --> 01:48:51,213 Speaker 2: pharmacologist Savo Sabo, a professor at the I look the 1653 01:48:51,333 --> 01:48:58,173 Speaker 2: name up for pronunciation spelled Csaba s z Abo. Saba 1654 01:48:58,333 --> 01:49:03,013 Speaker 2: Sabo a professor at the University of Freiburg in Switzerland, 1655 01:49:03,693 --> 01:49:07,573 Speaker 2: who confronts this chaos head on previewing his recently published 1656 01:49:07,573 --> 01:49:12,373 Speaker 2: book un Reliable. His verdict the scientific system is fractured 1657 01:49:12,373 --> 01:49:15,733 Speaker 2: beyond repair and band aid fixes will not cut it. 1658 01:49:16,413 --> 01:49:20,173 Speaker 2: Nothing short of a revolution will do the Sabo's journey 1659 01:49:20,293 --> 01:49:23,933 Speaker 2: into this quagmire began casually over Beer's in Fact, with 1660 01:49:23,973 --> 01:49:26,973 Speaker 2: colleagues in New York during a sabbatical. The question that 1661 01:49:27,093 --> 01:49:30,533 Speaker 2: kept surfacing was simple, yet halting. Why is it that 1662 01:49:30,613 --> 01:49:35,253 Speaker 2: nobody can reproduce anybody else's findings. It's a problem scientists 1663 01:49:35,293 --> 01:49:38,053 Speaker 2: have grumbled about for years, but Sabo decided to do 1664 01:49:38,093 --> 01:49:42,373 Speaker 2: something about it, and the result is unreliable. A deep 1665 01:49:42,493 --> 01:49:49,133 Speaker 2: dive into the causes of irreproducibility, ranging from hypercompetition and 1666 01:49:49,253 --> 01:49:55,013 Speaker 2: sloppy errors to statistical trickery at outright fraud, his conclusions 1667 01:49:55,093 --> 01:49:57,813 Speaker 2: are as sobering as they are provocative. Then, when it 1668 01:49:57,853 --> 01:50:00,973 Speaker 2: comes to the scale of the problem, Sabo's findings are 1669 01:50:01,493 --> 01:50:06,013 Speaker 2: jaw dropping. After sifting through the global scientific literature, not 1670 01:50:06,133 --> 01:50:11,613 Speaker 2: just the polished papers of PubMed but everything published anywhere, 1671 01:50:11,893 --> 01:50:15,973 Speaker 2: he estimates that ninety percent of it fails the reproducibility test. 1672 01:50:16,373 --> 01:50:20,773 Speaker 2: Even worse, he believes twenty to thirty percent is entirely fabricated. 1673 01:50:21,893 --> 01:50:25,173 Speaker 2: I didn't expect the numbers to be that high going in, 1674 01:50:25,293 --> 01:50:30,733 Speaker 2: he admits, it's just absurd. The financial tile is staggering 1675 01:50:31,373 --> 01:50:35,773 Speaker 2: paper mills, fraudulent outfits, the churn out fake research for 1676 01:50:35,853 --> 01:50:40,493 Speaker 2: profit rake in billions annually. This is not a cottage industry. 1677 01:50:40,573 --> 01:50:45,333 Speaker 2: It's an industrial scale scam. Now, what's more shocking is 1678 01:50:45,613 --> 01:50:48,533 Speaker 2: who's left to clean up the mess. It's not the 1679 01:50:48,533 --> 01:50:53,253 Speaker 2: grant agencies, the university's journals, or governments stepping up. Instead, 1680 01:50:53,413 --> 01:50:58,453 Speaker 2: it's a ragtag crew of private investigators working unpaid late 1681 01:50:58,493 --> 01:51:02,093 Speaker 2: into the night while dodging lawsuits from the very fraudsters 1682 01:51:02,213 --> 01:51:06,013 Speaker 2: they're exposing. What kind of system is this, he asks. 1683 01:51:06,493 --> 01:51:10,493 Speaker 2: Sabo doesn't mince words. The h lough measures tried so far, workshops, 1684 01:51:10,613 --> 01:51:14,213 Speaker 2: checklists of the light have flopped. The things that we've 1685 01:51:14,253 --> 01:51:17,573 Speaker 2: tried are not working, he says. I'm trying to suggest 1686 01:51:17,693 --> 01:51:18,413 Speaker 2: something different. 1687 01:51:19,133 --> 01:51:19,333 Speaker 3: Now. 1688 01:51:19,373 --> 01:51:23,853 Speaker 2: His fix a top to bottom overhaul of how science 1689 01:51:23,933 --> 01:51:27,973 Speaker 2: is taught, how it's funded and published. It's an ecosystem, 1690 01:51:28,013 --> 01:51:31,493 Speaker 2: he argues, and you can't fix one part without tackling 1691 01:51:31,493 --> 01:51:36,653 Speaker 2: the whole. Now, on the subject of education, Zabo proposes 1692 01:51:36,853 --> 01:51:41,653 Speaker 2: splitting scientific training into two tracks, one for discovery and 1693 01:51:41,773 --> 01:51:46,133 Speaker 2: another for integrity. The latter would train a new breed 1694 01:51:46,173 --> 01:51:51,933 Speaker 2: of professionals in experimental design, statistical rigor data management, and 1695 01:51:52,053 --> 01:51:58,493 Speaker 2: independent review, especially essentially watchdogs embedded in the system. It's 1696 01:51:58,533 --> 01:52:03,333 Speaker 2: a bold idea, but it could professionalize the policing of science. 1697 01:52:04,013 --> 01:52:07,493 Speaker 2: Then he takes aim at the current grant lottery, where 1698 01:52:07,533 --> 01:52:11,053 Speaker 2: scientists spend endless hours writing proposals, only for the same 1699 01:52:11,053 --> 01:52:14,853 Speaker 2: big institutions to pocket the cash year after year. His 1700 01:52:14,973 --> 01:52:21,173 Speaker 2: radical suggestion give institutions lump sums tied to strict reproducibility 1701 01:52:21,493 --> 01:52:25,413 Speaker 2: and integrity benchmarks. Let them figure out how to spend it. 1702 01:52:25,693 --> 01:52:31,053 Speaker 2: The catch It demands visionary leadership, something in short supply. Still, 1703 01:52:31,093 --> 01:52:34,893 Speaker 2: it could free researchers from grant writing drudgery and focus 1704 01:52:34,973 --> 01:52:38,493 Speaker 2: them on actual science. On the publication front, Savo wants 1705 01:52:38,573 --> 01:52:44,933 Speaker 2: journals to demand replication supplements, independent labs verifying findings before 1706 01:52:45,253 --> 01:52:48,253 Speaker 2: papers go to print. It's a practical step that could 1707 01:52:48,293 --> 01:52:52,413 Speaker 2: boost confidence in high profile claims. But he doesn't stop there. 1708 01:52:52,413 --> 01:52:56,893 Speaker 2: He also floats shrinking the scientific workforce and installing cameras 1709 01:52:56,933 --> 01:53:00,853 Speaker 2: and keystroke monitors in labs. There are cameras in cockpits 1710 01:53:00,893 --> 01:53:04,613 Speaker 2: and behind the barista in Starbucks. He notes, with so 1711 01:53:04,733 --> 01:53:09,213 Speaker 2: much money and ultimately human lives at stake, why should 1712 01:53:09,333 --> 01:53:11,053 Speaker 2: labs be exempt? 1713 01:53:11,813 --> 01:53:11,933 Speaker 4: Now? 1714 01:53:11,973 --> 01:53:14,773 Speaker 2: I'll leave it there. It goes on for double the 1715 01:53:14,853 --> 01:53:18,853 Speaker 2: length of that. The point of my dragging this out 1716 01:53:19,333 --> 01:53:22,573 Speaker 2: was a because it's brand new. B because the book 1717 01:53:22,613 --> 01:53:24,733 Speaker 2: is brand new, and by the way, I had to 1718 01:53:24,773 --> 01:53:29,213 Speaker 2: look at it online, and you can buy it instantly 1719 01:53:29,813 --> 01:53:31,853 Speaker 2: for a considerable amount of money. I think it's fifty 1720 01:53:31,893 --> 01:53:37,733 Speaker 2: two dollars. By downloading it from the website. You can 1721 01:53:37,773 --> 01:53:42,933 Speaker 2: buy a paperback for about another fifteen dollars, I believe, 1722 01:53:44,253 --> 01:53:46,333 Speaker 2: and that is what I'm going to be ordering, but 1723 01:53:46,573 --> 01:53:48,933 Speaker 2: it might get here for a little while, and then 1724 01:53:49,533 --> 01:53:53,973 Speaker 2: then comes the real surprise. The hardback copy is something 1725 01:53:54,053 --> 01:53:56,613 Speaker 2: like and this is from memory, something like two hundred 1726 01:53:56,613 --> 01:54:00,613 Speaker 2: and seventy four dollars, which is extraordinary. I love books, 1727 01:54:00,693 --> 01:54:03,133 Speaker 2: and I prefer hardback, but I think I'll stick with 1728 01:54:03,293 --> 01:54:07,733 Speaker 2: the paperback now. The point of drawing your attention to 1729 01:54:07,813 --> 01:54:12,813 Speaker 2: this book unreliable is because it's a fresh example. Because 1730 01:54:12,813 --> 01:54:15,253 Speaker 2: there's plenty of them from the past. There's many books, 1731 01:54:15,853 --> 01:54:17,773 Speaker 2: and this is a new book by a scientists to 1732 01:54:18,333 --> 01:54:22,533 Speaker 2: some considerable repute. I spotted it on What's Up with that? 1733 01:54:22,853 --> 01:54:27,173 Speaker 2: Dot com? Wawts up with that? Or one word dot com, 1734 01:54:27,813 --> 01:54:31,813 Speaker 2: which is a site that I visit regularly. It drops 1735 01:54:31,813 --> 01:54:34,293 Speaker 2: into my mailbox once or twice every day. They're very 1736 01:54:34,333 --> 01:54:37,493 Speaker 2: busy at what's up with that, and they provide very 1737 01:54:37,533 --> 01:54:40,973 Speaker 2: good material, and it's a reminder that the science is 1738 01:54:41,013 --> 01:54:45,213 Speaker 2: never settled. And we've had our own recent example of that, 1739 01:54:45,413 --> 01:54:49,293 Speaker 2: of course with COVID, where doctors got shredded. Some doctors 1740 01:54:49,293 --> 01:54:51,853 Speaker 2: got shredded because they wouldn't they wouldn't play horse with 1741 01:54:51,973 --> 01:54:56,133 Speaker 2: the authorities who thought they knew everything but knew nothing. 1742 01:54:56,373 --> 01:54:58,213 Speaker 2: And that makes me think of people walking away with 1743 01:54:58,333 --> 01:55:03,173 Speaker 2: honors when they don't deserve them. But that's another matter anyway. 1744 01:55:04,933 --> 01:55:07,573 Speaker 2: As I say, the point of it is that we're 1745 01:55:07,653 --> 01:55:11,213 Speaker 2: all adult and should have and I would like to 1746 01:55:11,213 --> 01:55:14,693 Speaker 2: think of the capacity to size people up from what 1747 01:55:14,733 --> 01:55:17,933 Speaker 2: they write, what they say where it fits, and make 1748 01:55:17,973 --> 01:55:21,693 Speaker 2: our own decisions and there we shall let things rest. 1749 01:55:22,093 --> 01:55:24,773 Speaker 2: That takes us out for podcasts number two hundred and 1750 01:55:25,133 --> 01:55:27,693 Speaker 2: seventy five. Now, if you are to write to us, 1751 01:55:27,813 --> 01:55:31,213 Speaker 2: please do Latent at Newstalks ab dot co dot mz 1752 01:55:31,413 --> 01:55:35,253 Speaker 2: or Carolyn at Newstalks ab dot co dot MZ. Love 1753 01:55:35,293 --> 01:55:38,333 Speaker 2: getting e mail say that every week, but it's true, 1754 01:55:38,493 --> 01:55:41,373 Speaker 2: and I don't walk at a bit of criticism unless 1755 01:55:41,373 --> 01:55:44,253 Speaker 2: it's stupid and that's another matter. And I am looking 1756 01:55:44,293 --> 01:55:48,293 Speaker 2: forward to some comment on Rodney Hyde. I think there's 1757 01:55:48,333 --> 01:55:52,613 Speaker 2: plenty that you can dissect or analyze and comment on. 1758 01:55:53,053 --> 01:55:55,053 Speaker 2: So we shall be back in a few days time 1759 01:55:55,093 --> 01:55:58,373 Speaker 2: with number two hundred and seventy six. Until then, as always, 1760 01:55:59,053 --> 01:56:02,013 Speaker 2: we thank you for listening and we shall talk soon. 1761 01:56:09,613 --> 01:56:12,653 Speaker 3: Thank you for more from Used Talk sed B. 1762 01:56:12,933 --> 01:56:16,173 Speaker 1: Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows 1763 01:56:16,173 --> 01:56:19,533 Speaker 1: with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio