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Speaker 1: Well, in the past twenty four hours since the US

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Speaker 1: president has quit the election race, the Kamala Harris team

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Speaker 1: seems to have cemented some real support and a lot

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Speaker 1: of money. So where does this race go now? Mike

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Speaker 1: Gilbert was the US ambassador to this country between twenty

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Speaker 1: fifteen and twenty seventeen, nominated, of course, by President Obama.

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Speaker 1: He's a longtime friend of Joe Biden. Says some real

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Speaker 1: insight now. Mark Gilbert is with us.

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Speaker 2: Mike Morning, Good morning the order.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about the last couple

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Speaker 1: of days. Let's go back a week to Butler and

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Speaker 1: encompass all of that. What do you make of what's

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Speaker 1: happening in your country.

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Speaker 2: It's a real tragedy. And something I spoke about when

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Speaker 2: I was in New Zealand is we have what I

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Speaker 2: believe are inappropriate gun laws for any country, and I

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Speaker 2: do believe in people's right to bear arms, but there's

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Speaker 2: no reason for anyone to need a military style rightful.

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Speaker 1: When President Biden spoke of taking the temperature down, did

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Speaker 1: you believe that that was possible? Do you still believe

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Speaker 1: that's possible or he was hopeful?

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Speaker 2: I do not. I know that it's something that the

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Speaker 2: president cares about. It's something that he had always cared about.

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Speaker 2: Thirty plus years ago, he was the first one to

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Speaker 2: get through gun laws to reduce the kind of arms

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Speaker 2: that are not needed for hunting or for self protection.

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Speaker 2: And during the ten years that that law was in effect,

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Speaker 2: we saw a dramatic decline in those kind of shootings

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Speaker 2: here in the US. And although he was able to

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Speaker 2: pass very significant gun laws, it's still not where we

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Speaker 2: should be.

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Speaker 1: When he asked to take the temperature down and it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It lasted about three and a half minutes. What's gone

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Speaker 1: wrong with American politics that it is this visceral well.

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Speaker 2: I think our politics have become performative, and because of

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Speaker 2: social media, many politicians leave by saying something outrageous, something

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Speaker 2: you know that will catch the attention and get many

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Speaker 2: likes and have many people watch. They see that as

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Speaker 2: a way of gaining name recognition, and they believe that

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Speaker 2: it helps them politically. I personally think it's terrible for

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Speaker 2: our system and we need to get back to where

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Speaker 2: we were, where we had two outstanding parties with great

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Speaker 2: people with good ideas who work together to pass the

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Speaker 2: best legislation for our country, and today we are nowhere

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Speaker 2: near there.

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Speaker 1: No is that the view of most Americans of I

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Speaker 1: rounded up Urine pac City, Utah. If I round up

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Speaker 1: the first hundred people I find, would they, broadly speaking,

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Speaker 1: no matter what side they're on, tell me the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Utah is a very interesting place. It's probably seventy to

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Speaker 2: eighty percent Mormon. And although it's a very conservative state,

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Speaker 2: people here really care about other people. And the temperature

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Speaker 2: of the politics that you see in Utah is very

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Speaker 2: different than you will see in many red states around

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Speaker 2: the country. The governor of Utah, Governor Pox, has an

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Speaker 2: outstanding relationship with President Biden, and the two first Ladies

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Speaker 2: have a wonderful working relationship. And sure they disagree on abortion,

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Speaker 2: they disagree on the border, but in mostly everything else

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Speaker 2: they agree because there are two people who really care

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Speaker 2: about other people, and that's what's important.

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Speaker 1: So what you need to more Utahs.

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Speaker 2: We need more people who speak civilly to each other

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Speaker 2: and work on the problem that we need to get solved.

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Speaker 1: Having non President Biden, as long as you have two

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Speaker 1: part question one, did you think he was always going

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Speaker 1: to go? Who was Sunday? Your time of surprise?

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Speaker 2: Sunday was not a surprise when President Biden ran in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and he felt compelled to run because of

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Speaker 2: what happened in Charlotte's felt when President Trump equated people

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Speaker 2: on both sides of being good people, he taught compelled

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Speaker 2: to run. He ran, he won. He's been an incredibly

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Speaker 2: succesful president, but he was also always going to be

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Speaker 2: a transitional president from his generation to the next generation. Now.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know when that point was going to be,

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Speaker 2: But in the last month here in the United States,

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Speaker 2: there has not been I shouldn't say it hasn't been.

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Speaker 2: There's been very little discussion about the issues of the race.

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Speaker 2: All the discussion has been about his age and help.

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Speaker 2: And unfortunately he was not able to change the narrative.

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Speaker 2: And because of that, he felt that he needed to

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Speaker 2: get the focus back on what are the important issues

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Speaker 2: for people here in the United States. And I believe

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Speaker 2: that's why he passed the torch to the vice president.

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Speaker 1: They say he would be angry. Would that be your assessment?

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Speaker 1: Was he treated badly in these last couple of months.

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Speaker 2: I think there were those who didn't treat him well.

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Speaker 2: This is a man who has served the country for

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Speaker 2: fifty two years, served the country well, has been an

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Speaker 2: incredibly successful president, passed significant bipartisan legislation, and that's something

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Speaker 2: that he was always known for. When I was asked

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Speaker 2: the question, I believe he had earned the respect and

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Speaker 2: the time to make this decision on his own, and

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Speaker 2: I realized that were some you know, that were trying

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Speaker 2: to force him out. I don't believe that that helped

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Speaker 2: the situation, and I believe he made the decision that

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Speaker 2: he felt it was right for him, for his family,

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Speaker 2: and for our country.

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Speaker 1: Now do you have mak Do you have a view

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Speaker 1: on Kamala Harris how this process should go forward or not?

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Speaker 2: Well? I do. I know the Vice President and just

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Speaker 2: by sheer coincident, we were hosting an event for her

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Speaker 2: at our house the day after the debate, so we

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Speaker 2: had her with about two hundred and twenty five guests

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Speaker 2: at her home for her. She was excellent. She addressed

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Speaker 2: the debate. She then pivoted to the issues that the

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Speaker 2: administration had worked on and the ones to work on

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Speaker 2: going forward. I think she has grown incredibly in her

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Speaker 2: three and a half years as vice president. She has

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Speaker 2: traveled the world. She's met with one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: world leaders, and I believe she is the right person

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Speaker 2: at this time to carry that torch forward.

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Speaker 1: Depending on who she picks as a running mic. Does

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Speaker 1: that matter?

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Speaker 2: I believe that it does. Because of the lateness of

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Speaker 2: the change, I think it will have more bearing than

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Speaker 2: it normally does. Although I will tell you the vast

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Speaker 2: majority of people vote for whom's at the top of

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Speaker 2: the ticket, and where I don't believe jd vance is

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Speaker 2: added it to Donald Trump. I think he reinforces Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump's policies. I think picking a senator like Mark Kelly,

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Speaker 2: who was a fighter pilot astronaut of course stood by

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Speaker 2: his wife, Gabby Gifferts after she was shot, you know,

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Speaker 2: more than a decade ago in a swing state, I

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Speaker 2: think he would be additive to the ticket. Or Roy Cooper,

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Speaker 2: a very well respected governor well wiped on both sides

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Speaker 2: of the aisle from North Carolina, which will also, in

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Speaker 2: my opinion, be a swing state in this election. But

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Speaker 2: there are other good candidates that they're out there.

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Speaker 1: Also, is America ready for a woman president? Before you

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Speaker 1: even get to the fact that woman of Kella president.

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Speaker 2: If we're not, we should be.

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Speaker 1: That's the problem though, isn't it should be, but maybe

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Speaker 1: you are, maybe you aren't. And is that a material

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Speaker 1: issue for the party.

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Speaker 2: Well, when you think about it, I mean, look at

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Speaker 2: New Zealand. New Zealand was the first country to have

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Speaker 2: a woman at the head of all the major divisions

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Speaker 2: at one time, you know, the first country to ever

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Speaker 2: have that happen. I think we're behind in that respect,

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Speaker 2: but you know, we elected a female vice president for

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Speaker 2: the first time, so I think it is time that

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Speaker 2: we elect a female president. We have many effective female governors.

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Speaker 2: You know, women in all aspects of life have shown

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Speaker 2: how they can lead. And I believe that that shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be the reason why someone votes for you. They shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be voting for you because of your color, because of

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Speaker 2: your ethnicity, because of your sex. They should be voting

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Speaker 2: for you because they believe that you will be the

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Speaker 2: best person to lead the country forward. And I think

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Speaker 2: when you have the comparison before between the current vice

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Speaker 2: president and the former president, I think it's very obvious

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Speaker 2: you know who airs more about the people in this country.

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Speaker 1: As we sit and talk on this July morning, Mark,

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Speaker 1: do you want to make a call for November.

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Speaker 2: I have always believed that the American people would do

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Speaker 2: the right thing. Donald Trump is a danger to democracy.

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Speaker 2: It's a danger to the world order. Praising authoritarian praising dictators,

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Speaker 2: talking about how Russia should invade NATO countries. That's not

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Speaker 2: the kind of person that we should have eating this country.

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Speaker 2: And he is someone who only cares about himself. That's

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Speaker 2: why I believe the American people will vote for whomever

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Speaker 2: ends up being the Democratic nominee. I do believe that

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Speaker 2: that will be the Vice president, Kamala Harris, and I

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Speaker 2: do believe she'll win. One thing I'll note to you

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Speaker 2: a little inside baseball in twenty twenty two, in our

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Speaker 2: midterm elections where Democrats it's significantly better than anybody projected.

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Speaker 2: It's because the American people stood up for democracy. Now. Granted,

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Speaker 2: in our House of Representatives, it was pretty tribal. If

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Speaker 2: you were a Republican, you voted for the Republican in

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Speaker 2: your district. If you were a Democrat, you voted for

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Speaker 2: the Democrat. But when it came to statewide races for

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Speaker 2: people who control the levers of democracy, whether it was

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Speaker 2: the governor of the Secretary of State or an attorney

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Speaker 2: general in those individual states, all of the election deniers,

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Speaker 2: all the people who did not promote democracy, every single

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Speaker 2: one of them lost and that made me feel good

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Speaker 2: about the people here in the United States that they

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Speaker 2: differentiated between who cared about democracy and who didn't. And

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Speaker 2: I believe those same people will stand up in November.

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Speaker 1: Mike, listen, I appreciate you time very much. And inside

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Speaker 1: Mike Gilbert, who's the former US Ambassador to New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: appointed under President Obama. For more from the Mic Hosking Breakfast,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio