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Speaker 1: Some concerns in our primary health sector. General practice owners

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Speaker 1: calling out what they call bloated bureaucracy moving to form

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Speaker 1: a breakaway nationwide primary health organization or a PHO. They

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Speaker 1: argue the large corporations or corporates running most phos have

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Speaker 1: conflicts of interest. Doctor Ingus Chambers is the chair of

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Speaker 1: GMPRO and as with us aying this morning, good morning,

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Speaker 1: you'd favor you say, a lean, cost effective PHO. What's

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Speaker 1: a lean, cost effective PHO.

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Speaker 2: Well, we would like to see as much as possible

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Speaker 2: of this funding going through the front line. So that's

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Speaker 2: part of the leanness that we don't have a large

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Speaker 2: organization that sucks up a lot of that resource. The

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Speaker 2: other thing that's part of that is service delivery. We

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Speaker 2: think it's better to deliver services through our practices, and

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Speaker 2: yet a lot of phos have created large service arms that,

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Speaker 2: again we think is inefficient and take spunding away from

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Speaker 2: getting to the front lines.

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Speaker 1: When I ring a doctor for an appointment, do you

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Speaker 1: reckon I know whether the doctor's part of a PHO,

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Speaker 1: and do I care?

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Speaker 2: You probably don't and you probably don't care.

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Speaker 1: And so why is this important?

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Speaker 2: It's important for the practices because as you practices do

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Speaker 2: know whether they're part of a PHO or not. You

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Speaker 2: have to be part of a PHO, but almost everybody is.

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Speaker 2: So it's a question of they're responsible for passing through

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Speaker 2: a large government funding and so the PHO that would

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Speaker 2: pass through as much funny as possible for the practice

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Speaker 2: might well be beneficial to both that practice and their patients.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm seeing here is that as an individual practitioner,

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Speaker 1: I go, well, look there's synergies here. If I joined

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Speaker 1: sixteen other gps and we'll have a PHO, will be

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Speaker 1: part of a PHO. But somewhere along the line, everyone

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Speaker 1: eats everybody and you end up with a couple of

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Speaker 1: major corporates, and then we start to worry. Is that

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Speaker 1: it in a nutshell?

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Speaker 2: Not really, but certainly we are worried about the inexorable

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Speaker 2: advent of the corporate corporates becoming the dominant players in

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Speaker 2: the practice teams. And we see that we're heading towards

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Speaker 2: the cuta market like situation. We've got a due opily

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Speaker 2: a triopoly, so that certainly those concerns are worrying.

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Speaker 1: But if I'm a GP and I've joined a PHO

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Speaker 1: and I share your concerns about the money coming through

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Speaker 1: to my practice, why don't I pull out?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a matter of having an alternative, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: And this is what we're hoping to provide, an alternative

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Speaker 2: that's very attractive to our members and good for our patients.

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Speaker 1: So you're good. So you're adding to the competitive or

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Speaker 1: the competition model, which is good, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think there's an element that competition can

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Speaker 2: be good in these in this situation. And look, there

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Speaker 2: are some phos that are actually quite good if they

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Speaker 2: tend to be the smaller, more LinkedIn of their communities

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Speaker 2: and practices at phos. But certainly we think a bit

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Speaker 2: of competitive tension it wouldn't necessarily be bad.

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Speaker 1: All right, nice to talk to you, Angus. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: doctor Angus Chambers. I hope you understood that when you

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Speaker 1: go to the doctor doesn't mean you're costom going to

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Speaker 1: the doctor. That's going to come down, of course it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: It's like Lumino. It's the same as Lumino thing of

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Speaker 1: the dentists. So you used to go to a dentist,

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Speaker 1: Bob sold out to Lumini. It's the same thing.

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