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Speaker 1: The huddled with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and

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Speaker 1: global exposure like no other.

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Speaker 2: Joining me tonight's Stuart Nation Formal Labor Minister.

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Speaker 3: Hey Stuart, Hey, you're right. How's it going?

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Speaker 2: Very good? Thank you. Marris Williamson's here to all can

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Speaker 2: counsel the former National Minister. Good evening. You've got to

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Speaker 2: feel for the police, Stuart, because there is between a

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Speaker 2: rock and a hard place, especially at the moment with

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Speaker 2: the protest that we're seeing, and they've got cameras on

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Speaker 2: them and they're damned if they go too hard, and

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Speaker 2: they're damned if they go too soft.

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Speaker 3: Well, man, as a former Minister of Police, anything that

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Speaker 3: can remove the ambiguity from the role of the fantastic

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Speaker 3: men and woman on the front line, I'm in support

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Speaker 3: off And if the framework is not suitable for purpose

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Speaker 3: at the moment, then give them a new framework. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm all for this, to be.

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Speaker 2: Honest, man, Yeah, just not quite sure what's wrong with

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Speaker 2: the current framework.

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Speaker 3: Well, if there is ambiguity, and it seems as if

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Speaker 3: there is a bit of ambiguity, if police don't know

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Speaker 3: what they can and can't do, then there's always going

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Speaker 3: to be gray areas, but provide a framework which is

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Speaker 3: fit for purpose makes it a lot easier to police.

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Speaker 3: Police know what they're doing, but.

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Speaker 2: Morris, they should know. I mean, if you hunt someone,

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Speaker 2: that's an offense. If you go on the road, that's

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Speaker 2: an offense.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think. I think anything that involves physical activity

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Speaker 4: in terms of hurting and damaging people or property, anything

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Speaker 4: in terms of threats and so on, I think is

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Speaker 4: an absolute you've foregone your right to be there. You

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Speaker 4: want to go on peacefully protest. I did it over

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Speaker 4: Vietnam War and all sorts of shit years ago, but

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Speaker 4: we peacefully. We've had signs and you know, down with

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Speaker 4: America and all that for over Vietnam, but you didn't

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Speaker 4: go out and start causing the riots. And the police

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Speaker 4: should have absolutely every right to intervene when people are

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Speaker 4: threatening personal safety and security. And I think they can

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Speaker 4: do that now if they were given a proper edict

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Speaker 4: from their high command.

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Speaker 2: I think that is probably more the point, isn't it, Stuart,

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Speaker 2: That it's the top brass that maybe say, oh look

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Speaker 2: this is a bit political, let's hold back. That's more

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Speaker 2: than anything. Probably what stopped police from getting involved.

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Speaker 3: Oh look, I don't think that's the case. There is

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Speaker 3: no say that is. You know, I've known a lot

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Speaker 3: of top cops over the time, and they're very good men,

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Speaker 3: women who put the health and safety of their front

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Speaker 3: line officers as their number cost. I well, I don't

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Speaker 3: think they say you can't do this because of political ramifications.

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Speaker 3: They allow their men and women on the front line

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Speaker 3: to do what they need to do to control the situation.

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Speaker 3: I agree with Marris. If you're smacking someone, then my

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Speaker 3: guid the police should be able to do whatever they

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Speaker 3: need to be able to do. But if the framework

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Speaker 3: provides ambiguity at the moment, then put a new framework

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Speaker 3: and play so, you know, so it removes ambiguility and

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Speaker 3: the police know exactly what they need to do.

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Speaker 4: The worst part about it all is the number of

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Speaker 4: cameras there. Everyone's got a camera, everyone's filming it, and

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Speaker 4: you've got police sitting there thinking if I grab this

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Speaker 4: person who's blocking the road, stuffing people's lives and every

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Speaker 4: and I even push them out of the way, that'll

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Speaker 4: be the story exactly. And I think the news media

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Speaker 4: have got a lot to sort of answer for about

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Speaker 4: making it the big story when all you did is

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Speaker 4: clear somebody out of blocking a road and allow people

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Speaker 4: to travel.

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Speaker 3: I agree with you one hundred pcent. Mars.

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Speaker 2: Guys will leave this here because we have so much

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Speaker 2: to discuss. When we come back, Stuart Nash and Morris

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Speaker 2: Williamson will get to the report from the State Services Commission.

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Speaker 2: This is on your data, your census data, your vaccination data,

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Speaker 2: Where is it ending up and what checks and balances

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Speaker 2: are in place to make sure it doesn't get in

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Speaker 2: the wrong hands.

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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty Elevator Marketing

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Speaker 1: of your Home just.

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Speaker 2: Gone fourteen minutes away from six News Talk, said BZ

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Speaker 2: Stuart Nash and Marris Williamson on the huddle tonight. So

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Speaker 2: we've had the State Services Commission report out today and

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Speaker 2: it says that with the census and the vaccination data,

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Speaker 2: that it was released to third parties and we didn't

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Speaker 2: have proper checks and balances in place to make sure

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Speaker 2: nothing untoward happened with it. So on the question of

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Speaker 2: did anything untoward happen with it, the answer is we

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Speaker 2: actually don't know, and this report doesn't tell us. Stuart,

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Speaker 2: I'm dying to know what you think about.

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Speaker 3: This bloody outrageous Ryan. You know, we asked Keys to

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Speaker 3: give us a lot of data because we need the

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Speaker 3: data to inform policies. And if kiwis believe that data

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Speaker 3: hasn't been kept safe, then they just won't trust the government.

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Speaker 3: I think this is outrageous. And you know the guy,

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Speaker 3: the head of Statsuw Zealander, he's not standing down, he's

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Speaker 3: just not seeking reappointment. I think he should go immediately.

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Speaker 3: I mean the report is damning. The words in the

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Speaker 3: report are things like, you know, significant failure, ignored staff concerns,

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Speaker 3: reconflict of interest. You know, this is this is really

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Speaker 3: really bad. And if the public lose confidence in the

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Speaker 3: government to keep their data safe, they just won't give it.

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Speaker 3: So I think this is this is this is really bad.

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Speaker 3: It's outrageous, maur As.

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Speaker 2: You think it should be gone now too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred per cent. You're dead right high and

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Speaker 4: the longest serving ever Minister of Statistics in New Zealand

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Speaker 4: fourteen years. I think I hold the port far and

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Speaker 4: all I can tell you is that the integrity of

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Speaker 4: that data is absolutely everything. People will cooperate at census

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Speaker 4: time and so on if they know that that data

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Speaker 4: is anonymized and never used for anything. If they think

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Speaker 4: it leaks out, you can forget the value of any census.

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Speaker 4: It will bempletely valueless.

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Speaker 2: Interesting that they've were in terms of the White Day

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Speaker 2: to trust the money RAE WOMI and the Final Order

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Speaker 2: Commissioning Agency. They've said with funding going forward that not

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Speaker 2: just them actually, but all third parties will have to

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Speaker 2: meet a certain standard before they will give them any

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Speaker 2: more money in the future. Stewart, and that will include

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Speaker 2: things like, you know, your conflict dealing with your conflicts

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Speaker 2: of interest. So that's an interesting development.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, look, there are times when you do need

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Speaker 3: to share data to inform decisions, there's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 3: But but if anything compromises the integrity of that, then

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Speaker 3: you know it's got to go. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: these organizations should get any money. I mean, the report

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Speaker 3: says it's not there to find fault, But if you

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Speaker 3: read the report and you read the recommendations that have

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Speaker 3: come out of the report and the conclusions in the report,

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Speaker 3: it kind of draws a bow that that this data

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Speaker 3: hasn't been used well. Staff concerns we've taken notice of

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Speaker 3: don't give these guys any more money if they if

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Speaker 3: they're if they're lacking integrity.

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Speaker 4: What's unacceptable here? As an organization whose role is to

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Speaker 4: promise to guarantee you the integrity of the data they

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Speaker 4: collect from you, now saying oh, well, we'll look to

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Speaker 4: improve our role and function. Sorry, you should have been

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Speaker 4: absolutely at a grade role and function protection of data

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Speaker 4: right from day zero. And if you weren't, you shouldn't

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Speaker 4: have been the chief executive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and well, and to be fair, is only the

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Speaker 2: acting one anyway, but it will be gone at the

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Speaker 2: end of his contract, So be gone. Now are you guilty?

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Speaker 2: And I don't think it's actually anything that you should

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Speaker 2: be ashamed of, Stuart, But are you guilty of using

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Speaker 2: your phone while watching TV? You know, double scrolling?

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Speaker 3: No, I'm not. I read the story. I mean, this

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Speaker 3: is just a further dumbing down of society, right, I

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Speaker 3: don't need to be spoonfeed the TV show. This This

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Speaker 3: is Netflix saying again, a dumb down shows because people

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Speaker 3: are screening and they can't concentrate on two things at

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Speaker 3: one time. I mean, give me a break, you know,

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Speaker 3: every now and again, I look at my especially if

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Speaker 3: you just playing cricket. You look at crick info or

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Speaker 3: your messages every now and again, But it doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: I can't double. I can't look at the TV show well,

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Speaker 3: checking my message have been now and again. Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: You think you think you're a superman. You can do

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Speaker 2: it all, you're mister master.

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Speaker 3: But I'm not seeing men. Look, but I can.

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Speaker 4: You can follow two things, well, I'm going to confess

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Speaker 4: right here and now I can't. And the worst thing is,

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Speaker 4: I've hardly ever seen the end of any TV show

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Speaker 4: or any movie. I get, honest, Oh, this looks good,

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Speaker 4: and then I'm on the phone, and then I see

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Speaker 4: the screen and then some text comes in, and I

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Speaker 4: go off and send some emails, and I come back

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Speaker 4: in the wife says it's over. It was quite a

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Speaker 4: good movie, and a god bugger got to wait. I'll

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Speaker 4: try and watch it again some other times.

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Speaker 2: At least at least it's not because you're not falling asleep.

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Speaker 4: Because it's not falling asleep, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting, though, isn't it, Because they're basically going to

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Speaker 2: take out You know, when you watch a movie and

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Speaker 2: there's lots of action scenes, when if you're just listening

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Speaker 2: to something. Those action scenes, you missle everything that's happened,

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Speaker 2: so there'll be less action and a lot more dialogue,

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Speaker 2: which to me sounds more like a podcast. I would

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Speaker 2: have thought that was.

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Speaker 4: More like parlor.

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Speaker 3: What's the point action? Yeah, so they're either longer or

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Speaker 3: there boring. I mean, you know, imagine Terminator as four

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Speaker 3: hours as supposed to two hours. I'm being slightly glid,

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Speaker 3: but give us some credit. You know, if you can

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Speaker 3: check your messages and watch the TV at the same time,

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Speaker 3: well there's something wrong with you. Yeah, fair enough, Sorry Marus,

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Speaker 3: no disrespect mate, but nothing's going to.

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Speaker 4: Say I thought I thought Terminator was the Public Service Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, just quickly before we go, now that you've

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Speaker 2: raised it, Mars, which departments would you put the bomb

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Speaker 2: under first?

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Speaker 4: Oh? I've got a list so long. I mean, there

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Speaker 4: are so many trivial little units with such no gravitas

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Speaker 4: and so on. If they've got a role and function,

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Speaker 4: make them a particular little office within a department with

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Speaker 4: one chief executive, not forty six was it can't remember

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Speaker 4: the number.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and in nearly forty agencies.

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Speaker 4: It's insane. Honestly, we've just every time there's been a

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Speaker 4: little itch politically to scratch it, we've oh, we'll make

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Speaker 4: a Ministry of you know, small grain and seeds to

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Speaker 4: help those people. And you go, no, stop this, that

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Speaker 4: we are over bureaucratized. The whole problem. We've got way

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Speaker 4: too much bureaucracy killing any innovation, and you've got to

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Speaker 4: actually pull a whole lot of that stuff out of there.

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Speaker 4: I'm delighted what Sir Brian Roach has at least floated.

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Speaker 4: Hopefully he carries it through.

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Speaker 3: Look Sir Brian's a legend, there's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 3: But it's almost Monty pythonish to have a ministry for

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Speaker 3: cutting red tape and regulation. David, it is, it actually is.

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Speaker 2: You have to you have to agree with that.

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Speaker 4: Set up a new ministry for reducing ministries.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and we've just added another one with the

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Speaker 2: Minister of Growth, for goodness sakes, goes to the Southland.

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Speaker 2: I don't know where does the list in.

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Speaker 4: No, well, I was hoping for the Chad of Islands portfolio,

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Speaker 4: but I never picked it up.

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Speaker 2: So Stuart Nash, former Labor Minister, Morris Williamson Auckland Councilor,

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Speaker 2: former National Minister and falling asleep before the end of

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Speaker 2: every movie. Eight minutes Away from six News Talk Said B.

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Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to

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Speaker 1: News Talk Said B from four pm weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeart Radio out