1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Now workers taking part impartial strikes could soon have their 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: pay docked. Legislation passed in Parliament last night. Now, the 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: law was changed by the previous government in twenty eighteen 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: that stopped the docking of the pay. Now it's been 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: reversed in recent years. We've seen the teachers and the 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: train drivers in the end ZDF stuff all engage impartial strikes. 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Flurfit Simons is the PSA's National secretary and with us now. 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 2: Hey, flur good evening, Heather. 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: Okay, so what is the docking of the pay ten percent? 10 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 2: Yes, so there is the opportunity now for employers to 11 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: dock pay for up to ten percent for workers who 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: take partial strike action. So that's quite low level strike action, 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: usually at the beginning of a dispute, in an effort 14 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 2: to try and make the employer understand that are serious 15 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 2: and that they would like to settle the issue. 16 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: Is it partial strikes or does that Is it just 17 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: partial strikes or is it also working to rule. 18 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: Well, that's still to be decided and that there is 19 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: a lot of legal action that will result. Is part 20 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: of this new legislation that come in. We certainly think 21 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 2: that workers shouldn't have their paydoct when they're simply working 22 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: to roll or taking their breaks at the same time. 23 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 2: But whether the employers do that and whether the courts 24 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: uphold it will something will be something to be seen. 25 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: Ah Okay, so it's clear that partial strikes are affected, 26 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: but it is possible that working to rule is not affected. 27 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 2: Well, that's the argument that we're making. I'm not sure 28 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: the government has the same position. 29 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: But do you believe the government wants to dock the pay, 30 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: wants to allow employers to dock the pay of people 31 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: who are working to rule? 32 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is their intention. And actually all 33 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: of this is about undermining the power that workers have 34 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: to advance their interests and see better wages and conditions. 35 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: And we already have quite a major power and balance 36 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: in this country between workers and employers, and employers have 37 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: lots of tools available to them to impose conditions which 38 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: are not there. And that's why we have a problem 39 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: with low wages in New Zealand. 40 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: The reason I keep asking about the work to rules 41 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: because that would be very unfair. I mean, my understanding 42 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: of working to rule you know more than me, But 43 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: it's basically just turning up and doing the job. As 44 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: per your contract, right, so you would only be doing 45 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: what you are supposed to do for your full pay, 46 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: isn't that right? 47 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. And we know that so many 48 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: New Zealand workers put in extra time at longer hours 49 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: than they're paid for. And at the moment, if you 50 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: do decide collectively to work to rule, that is a 51 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: form of strike action, and you do have to run 52 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: a secret ballot for it, and it can be very 53 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: disruptive because employers rely on it. The government thinks that 54 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: this still gives them the right to deduct for that 55 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 2: will be contesting that in the courts, I imagine. Yeah. 56 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: Okay, Now, is there any indication that there have been 57 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: more strikes as a result of employers being unable to 58 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: doc pay in the last few years? 59 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: No, there heaven. And actually it's worth remembering that the 60 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: vast majority of collective agreements in New Zealand are settled 61 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 2: without being any industrial action, and workers in unions employers 62 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: and they negotiate every day and come to agreements, and 63 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 2: no worker takes a decision to take strike action lightly. 64 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: It's a very serious, considered decision and really, what we 65 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: think this will do is probably lead to more full 66 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: stoppages because the ability to take partial strike action at 67 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: that low level is significantly reduced. 68 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: Now I see flur Thank you very much, appreciate your time. 69 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: It's Flurford Sigmon's PSA National Secretary. For more from Heather 70 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd be 71 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.