WEBVTT - Leighton Smith Podcast #244 - June 19th 2024 - Jodie Bruning 0:00:09.133 --> 0:00:12.013 You're listening to a podcast from news talks it B. 0:00:12.413 --> 0:00:16.173 Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:16.813 --> 0:00:19.813 It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 0:00:19.853 --> 0:00:24.933 the information, all the debates of this now the Leighton 0:00:25.053 --> 0:00:27.733 Smith Podcast powered by news talks it B. 0:00:28.093 --> 0:00:31.333 Welcome to Podcasts two hundred and forty four. For June nineteen, 0:00:31.573 --> 0:00:36.413 twenty twenty four, sociologist J R. Brunning guests on podcast 0:00:36.493 --> 0:00:39.613 two four fourth and for very good reason. She has 0:00:39.693 --> 0:00:44.213 forced her way into public attention through research and producing 0:00:44.213 --> 0:00:48.293 papers of relevance. Her latest production, and it is a production, 0:00:48.613 --> 0:00:52.013 a ninety page effort, is on a most important issue, 0:00:52.693 --> 0:00:58.133 digital IDs and cbdc's, the combination of which threaten results 0:00:58.173 --> 0:01:02.293 we should be aware of, but patently we're not. Let 0:01:02.293 --> 0:01:06.253 me quote. CBDCs have not been pushed into policy space 0:01:06.373 --> 0:01:09.933 by the citizens of nations, but by the big global 0:01:10.053 --> 0:01:14.333 central banks and the fintech industry. There is compelling evidence 0:01:14.493 --> 0:01:19.093 that power and interoperability of the digital infrastructure will not 0:01:19.133 --> 0:01:23.213 only enhance government control and surveillance, but that it presents 0:01:23.413 --> 0:01:28.693 a real risk to civil, constitutional, and human rights. This 0:01:28.853 --> 0:01:33.133 tech is scalable, and it's out of sight because of 0:01:33.173 --> 0:01:36.373 the mixture of interests involved, from the Reserve Bank of 0:01:36.413 --> 0:01:40.613 New Zealand to allied government agencies, to the fintech sector 0:01:40.893 --> 0:01:45.173 and RB and z's Central Bank colleagues, the decision making 0:01:45.253 --> 0:01:47.933 processes and authorities will be difficult to track and assess 0:01:48.373 --> 0:01:51.733 should something go wrong. Now, may I suggest that you 0:01:51.893 --> 0:01:55.293 listen to this interview from beginning to end and then 0:01:55.333 --> 0:01:57.853 look up a couple of the papers that she has produced. 0:01:58.213 --> 0:02:01.813 But more details on all of that very shortly, but 0:02:01.933 --> 0:02:04.453 just a note on this week's podcast. It is shorter 0:02:04.533 --> 0:02:08.133 than normal. We are covering the interview and then we 0:02:08.173 --> 0:02:11.733 do a shortish mail room. The reason for it is 0:02:11.773 --> 0:02:13.413 that there has been a bit of sickness in the 0:02:13.453 --> 0:02:16.773 house over the last week and hopefully you won't be 0:02:17.333 --> 0:02:20.813 exposed to much of it. Due to the ability to 0:02:21.253 --> 0:02:24.013 edit things, it's been a full time job, let me 0:02:24.053 --> 0:02:27.693 tell you. Doing the interview, I had my microphone closed 0:02:28.133 --> 0:02:31.253 most of the time. However, I think that it all 0:02:31.253 --> 0:02:34.493 come out right in the end. Jr. Running is very 0:02:34.573 --> 0:02:39.013 very good. Now. I wanted to mention that because it's 0:02:39.053 --> 0:02:41.893 been a case of spending more time in bed, particularly 0:02:41.933 --> 0:02:44.853 in the morning, and the other morning I heard the 0:02:44.893 --> 0:02:47.693 news I think it was at about six point thirty 0:02:48.173 --> 0:02:50.733 or something. Usually i'd be up by then. There was 0:02:50.733 --> 0:02:55.293 the story of Jasindra Dern and her latest well whatever 0:02:55.293 --> 0:02:57.853 you want to call it, and I immediately started rolling 0:02:57.893 --> 0:03:00.613 words around of my head about what I would say 0:03:00.613 --> 0:03:04.133 about it, and then I thought, no, let it go. 0:03:04.453 --> 0:03:08.253 It's gone now who cares? And then reality set in. 0:03:08.413 --> 0:03:13.613 Of course, reality set in because it's fine to forgive, 0:03:14.413 --> 0:03:17.133 but when people are not repentant, when people carry on 0:03:17.293 --> 0:03:20.493 in the same manner of what as to what they 0:03:20.573 --> 0:03:25.333 have in the past, then there's no forgiveness to be had. 0:03:25.893 --> 0:03:28.213 And I think the best way to cover this is 0:03:28.253 --> 0:03:31.653 to read a letter to you that came in that 0:03:31.733 --> 0:03:37.813 same morning at five point thirty three from Liz just 0:03:37.933 --> 0:03:39.653 when we thought it was safe to go back into 0:03:39.653 --> 0:03:43.533 the water exclamation mark. The extrag below is from just 0:03:43.613 --> 0:03:47.333 sindro Render's Facebook page. It details how she has started 0:03:47.373 --> 0:03:51.653 an excite quote an exciting new initiative called Field. It's 0:03:51.693 --> 0:03:57.013 all about humanizing leadership with empathy and kindness. She also 0:03:57.053 --> 0:04:02.093 says she's focused on unity without using fear to divide people. 0:04:02.733 --> 0:04:06.093 For those of us who lived through her tyranny, who 0:04:06.173 --> 0:04:09.173 lost their jobs, had loved ones locked out of New 0:04:09.253 --> 0:04:13.533 Zealand or die alone. Her lack of self awareness and 0:04:13.613 --> 0:04:18.373 blatant stupidity astounds me. Liz goes on, this is another 0:04:18.453 --> 0:04:20.893 of her attempts to remain relevant and to suck the 0:04:21.053 --> 0:04:26.053 ill informed and bewildered into supporting her socialist idealist agenda. 0:04:27.093 --> 0:04:29.813 She is not and never will be remembered as a 0:04:29.893 --> 0:04:33.533 kind and empathetic leader. She was driven by her ego 0:04:33.613 --> 0:04:38.093 and vanity projects, and she almost single handedly destroyed New Zealand. 0:04:38.493 --> 0:04:41.893 I sincerely hope that field is not her way of 0:04:41.933 --> 0:04:45.613 working her way back onto the global political stage. Her 0:04:45.653 --> 0:04:49.573 influence is dangerous, and the potential outcome of that influence 0:04:49.733 --> 0:04:53.093 on the ill informed and those who are not aware 0:04:53.133 --> 0:04:56.453 of what she did to our society would be devastating. 0:04:57.733 --> 0:05:02.413 Extract below largely waffle with no substance, no change there 0:05:02.493 --> 0:05:05.773 best wishes Liz. Now. Anybody who doesn't understand that's most 0:05:05.813 --> 0:05:09.613 who doesn't understand what the word progressive actually means in 0:05:09.693 --> 0:05:14.533 political terms, is at a loss to describe what her 0:05:14.533 --> 0:05:20.453 politics are. Is very simple. Progressive progressivism is the road 0:05:20.893 --> 0:05:25.133 to Marxism, to communism. If you like, I'm not making 0:05:25.173 --> 0:05:28.493 it up. There's plenty of reference to it, but that's 0:05:28.533 --> 0:05:30.733 the way that it is. And I think that what's 0:05:30.773 --> 0:05:33.693 going on, what has been going on since her flight 0:05:33.813 --> 0:05:37.853 from office, indicates that that is much the case, and 0:05:37.973 --> 0:05:49.213 in just a moment, Jody Brunning. There are essential fat 0:05:49.293 --> 0:05:51.813 nutrients that we need in our diet as the body 0:05:51.853 --> 0:05:55.293 can't manufacture them. These are Omega three and Amiga six 0:05:55.333 --> 0:05:59.173 fatty acids. Equism is a combination of fish oil and 0:05:59.293 --> 0:06:03.373 virgin evening primrose oil, a formula that provides an excellent 0:06:03.493 --> 0:06:06.333 source of Amiga three and Amiga six fatty acids in 0:06:06.413 --> 0:06:10.453 their naturally existing ratios. The Omega six from evening primrose 0:06:10.493 --> 0:06:13.853 oil assists the Omega three fish oil to be more effective. 0:06:14.133 --> 0:06:17.333 Equisine is a high quality fish oil supplement enriched with 0:06:17.493 --> 0:06:21.693 evening primrose oil that works synergistically for comprehensive health support. 0:06:22.053 --> 0:06:26.293 Source from the deep sea sardines Anchovisa magril provide essential 0:06:26.373 --> 0:06:30.093 Amega three fatty acids in their purest form without any 0:06:30.213 --> 0:06:33.533 internal organs or toxins. Every batch is tested for its 0:06:33.573 --> 0:06:37.253 purity before it's allowed to be sold. Equisine supports cells 0:06:37.293 --> 0:06:40.613 to be flexible, so important to support healthy blood flow 0:06:41.093 --> 0:06:45.773 and overall cardiovascular health. Equisine can support mood, balance and 0:06:45.893 --> 0:06:48.933 mental clarity and focus in children, all the way to 0:06:49.053 --> 0:06:52.613 supporting stiff joints, mental focus, brain health and healthy eyes 0:06:52.893 --> 0:06:55.693 as we get older. Equisine is a premium high grade 0:06:55.693 --> 0:06:59.333 fish and evening primrose oil to be taken in addition 0:06:59.413 --> 0:07:02.853 to a healthy diet and is only available from pharmacies 0:07:02.933 --> 0:07:06.253 and health stores. Always read the label and users directed 0:07:06.613 --> 0:07:15.213 and if symptoms persist. Seainguid healthcare professional farmer Broker Auckland 0:07:19.973 --> 0:07:25.933 Leighton Smith j R. Brunning is a consultant sociologist. Her 0:07:25.933 --> 0:07:30.053 work explores governance, cultures, policy and the production of scientific 0:07:30.133 --> 0:07:34.333 and technical knowledge. Brunning is a trustee of the Physicians 0:07:34.373 --> 0:07:38.653 and Scientists for Global Responsibility New Zealand or. The address 0:07:38.733 --> 0:07:40.733 is PSGR dot org dot enz. 0:07:41.173 --> 0:07:41.293 Now. 0:07:41.293 --> 0:07:44.373 If that sounds dull and boring, let me alert you 0:07:45.053 --> 0:07:48.493 is not. Her most recent work involves digital ideas and 0:07:48.653 --> 0:07:52.693 central bank digital currencies, about which there is growing public concern, 0:07:52.853 --> 0:07:57.613 both individually but especially when coupled together. Now, if you're 0:07:57.733 --> 0:08:01.693 trying to imagine why, think of the World Economic Forum 0:08:01.733 --> 0:08:05.853 at the Reserve Bank of New Zealand as bedmates. Running's 0:08:05.893 --> 0:08:10.133 major contribution is a ninety page paper stepping back from 0:08:10.173 --> 0:08:14.813 the brink the programmable ledger, which I was term as challenging, 0:08:15.173 --> 0:08:18.693 but there is a safety net. A nine page that 0:08:18.933 --> 0:08:21.853 is one tenth size of the Monster report. A nine 0:08:21.893 --> 0:08:25.053 page reduced version which is much easier for most of 0:08:25.093 --> 0:08:29.253 us to grasp, is available. Details to follow shortly. Jr. 0:08:29.493 --> 0:08:32.533 Jody Brunning, it's great to have you on the Latensmith podcast, 0:08:32.573 --> 0:08:33.173 and I thank you. 0:08:33.573 --> 0:08:35.893 Look, it's great to be here with you. Lton, thank 0:08:35.893 --> 0:08:36.933 you for inviting me on. 0:08:37.253 --> 0:08:39.573 You start by saying, this is on the ninth pager. 0:08:39.813 --> 0:08:43.853 Don't be misled. Judging the risk from central bank digital 0:08:43.893 --> 0:08:48.013 currencies in isolation is a rookie mistake. Did you know 0:08:48.053 --> 0:08:49.573 it was going to be so long when you started? 0:08:50.053 --> 0:08:53.653 Absolutely not that. And you're talking about a recent article 0:08:53.693 --> 0:08:56.973 in the Daily Telegraph, so people just have to can 0:08:57.053 --> 0:09:00.453 quickly search for that. Yeah. No, I didn't know it 0:09:00.493 --> 0:09:03.773 would be that long. And this is because, as you 0:09:03.973 --> 0:09:08.893 learn something about a very complex subject, was a very 0:09:08.933 --> 0:09:13.333 open ended bit that needs to be addressed Otherwise people 0:09:13.413 --> 0:09:17.013 are left questioning. I guess, so we had to sort 0:09:17.013 --> 0:09:20.573 of keep talking about this issue and fleshing out those 0:09:20.733 --> 0:09:21.333 those gaps. 0:09:21.373 --> 0:09:26.173 I guess It's interesting you say that, because I probably 0:09:26.333 --> 0:09:28.693 three years ago, no more than that'd be four years 0:09:28.693 --> 0:09:32.253 ago now. I interviewed a professor from the Melbourne Institute 0:09:32.533 --> 0:09:35.733 Melbourne Tech. He and two others had had written a 0:09:35.733 --> 0:09:40.053 book that was on digitization and it was going to 0:09:40.053 --> 0:09:45.573 be the release of freedom amongst the community in the world, 0:09:46.013 --> 0:09:49.173 and got I got quite a bit of hefty feedback 0:09:49.293 --> 0:09:53.573 on it, saying that this is a con they're not 0:09:53.733 --> 0:09:57.413 they're not working on something to This was the suggestion, 0:09:57.533 --> 0:09:59.533 they're not working on something to give us freedom, They're 0:09:59.573 --> 0:10:01.933 working on something who's going to do exactly the opposite. 0:10:02.413 --> 0:10:05.293 And I could see the point of the people who 0:10:05.293 --> 0:10:09.253 were saying that, do you run into any of that, Well, 0:10:09.293 --> 0:10:11.853 I guess we shouldn't be surprised. 0:10:11.973 --> 0:10:15.813 I guess it's a very very ancient sort of things, 0:10:16.053 --> 0:10:20.573 looking at power and aggregating power, and powerful people usually, 0:10:20.813 --> 0:10:23.533 you know, they're not usually happy with one super yosh 0:10:23.573 --> 0:10:26.573 or whatever. They normally like three or four, and so 0:10:27.373 --> 0:10:31.733 I think it's pretty natural for powerful interests to want 0:10:31.733 --> 0:10:35.933 to consolidate their interest and sort of the game of monopoly, 0:10:36.453 --> 0:10:41.533 you know, is an ancient sort of concept, and we're 0:10:41.613 --> 0:10:44.813 used to sort of the oligopolies or the oligarchs in 0:10:45.133 --> 0:10:49.453 you know, old societies ruling and so it's not a 0:10:49.613 --> 0:10:52.253 it's a very human thing to concentrate power. 0:10:52.333 --> 0:10:55.013 And but we've never seen anything like it before like 0:10:55.093 --> 0:10:57.053 what we're experiencing now where we're headed. 0:10:58.013 --> 0:11:00.493 Yes, and so this is just just to let people 0:11:01.133 --> 0:11:05.413 to help people understand. My undergraduates of BBS and I 0:11:05.493 --> 0:11:08.573 have masters in sociology, and what I've been looking at 0:11:08.573 --> 0:11:12.613 for the last decade or so is technology and science 0:11:12.733 --> 0:11:16.533 and how we regulate technology and science, be it a 0:11:16.573 --> 0:11:21.293 commercial formulation, a pesticide and nanotech. And now we're looking 0:11:21.333 --> 0:11:24.493 at the silicon, we're looking at digital technologies. And so 0:11:24.573 --> 0:11:27.933 the difference that we have now and this is why 0:11:27.973 --> 0:11:30.733 I think PSDR we're happy to take this paper on 0:11:31.453 --> 0:11:36.133 is its scalability potential, so we can use tech for 0:11:36.213 --> 0:11:41.013 good to help us in our everyday lives. But the 0:11:41.173 --> 0:11:45.373 trick is powerful interests. Also we'll see that that technology 0:11:45.413 --> 0:11:49.333 is is very able to be scaled up and we 0:11:49.373 --> 0:11:51.933 can get into how it can be scaled up for 0:11:52.213 --> 0:11:56.173 their own interests. So it's the scalability potential. And we 0:11:56.413 --> 0:12:01.253 put this together with the programmability of the digital currencies 0:12:01.253 --> 0:12:04.053 that we're going to be talking about, and that changes 0:12:04.213 --> 0:12:04.693 the game. 0:12:05.773 --> 0:12:08.693 What's an alternative word for scale up or scale. 0:12:10.493 --> 0:12:14.613 Well, sort of increase exponentially. 0:12:14.653 --> 0:12:18.093 I guess I was thinking of those who can't quite 0:12:18.093 --> 0:12:19.213 place the meaning. 0:12:19.693 --> 0:12:22.093 Well, it's the the idea of going from the horse 0:12:22.093 --> 0:12:24.773 and cart to the car. How could we, you know, 0:12:25.013 --> 0:12:28.853 consider what would be the outcome of that? What? How 0:12:28.893 --> 0:12:30.773 did we have to change all the rules on the 0:12:31.253 --> 0:12:33.893 on the road to ensure that people weren't, you know, 0:12:34.133 --> 0:12:37.293 rolling the car at every fast corner. So it's, you know, 0:12:37.373 --> 0:12:40.293 scaling things up creates all these you know, it's the 0:12:40.373 --> 0:12:43.453 no known, it's the unknowns, unown unknowns, it's you know, 0:12:43.533 --> 0:12:47.213 it's it's we just cannot And this is why it's 0:12:47.213 --> 0:12:50.173 a very much a governance issue, and y p SR 0:12:50.253 --> 0:12:53.253 are hoping that, you know, people from the school of governors, 0:12:54.813 --> 0:12:59.533 legal experts in public law, constitutional and administrative law, will 0:12:59.573 --> 0:13:02.693 become interested in this. It's it's a very big issue 0:13:02.773 --> 0:13:04.333 because of the scalable potential. 0:13:04.453 --> 0:13:07.733 I want to ask you a blunt question at this point, 0:13:08.453 --> 0:13:12.733 which I might have left till later. Considering those organizations 0:13:13.013 --> 0:13:16.053 in the world who are backing this and promoting it, 0:13:16.333 --> 0:13:19.933 and some of them dishonestly, Is there any real way 0:13:20.213 --> 0:13:24.813 that little Old New Zealand can control its own future 0:13:25.293 --> 0:13:29.533 by escaping what might be coming down the track? 0:13:30.173 --> 0:13:34.613 Well, if we're simply talking about central bank digital currencies CBDCs, 0:13:34.813 --> 0:13:38.893 we can very easily step away from that. And of 0:13:38.933 --> 0:13:43.573 course the issue here is around the public waking up 0:13:43.653 --> 0:13:47.853 and being courageous enough to share information that looks critically 0:13:48.373 --> 0:13:51.813 at how these technologies can be scaled up. And I 0:13:51.853 --> 0:13:56.813 think we're seeing some examples of countries pausing or moving away. 0:13:57.573 --> 0:14:01.613 And it's very clear that all internationally. When you see, 0:14:01.653 --> 0:14:06.853 for example, the CBDC, you know, the Reserve Bank of 0:14:06.893 --> 0:14:09.493 New Zealand, take go and have a look on CBDC 0:14:11.173 --> 0:14:13.653 website and it will show you how many countries are involved. 0:14:13.653 --> 0:14:17.733 And of course the cbd website is controlled and overseen 0:14:17.773 --> 0:14:21.253 by the Boston Consulting Group, so we see that all 0:14:21.293 --> 0:14:26.853 the main Wow Aunt, CBDC is awesome. All those and 0:14:26.893 --> 0:14:30.173 this is where PSR are talking. All those sort of 0:14:30.173 --> 0:14:33.893 policy papers, those white papers have all been produced by 0:14:33.653 --> 0:14:38.053 the organizations with the financial and dare I say political 0:14:38.213 --> 0:14:43.053 conflicts of interest. So because most of the and we 0:14:43.093 --> 0:14:47.053 can call that propaganda as well that has been produced 0:14:47.653 --> 0:14:50.413 that they hope that will be adopted about by our 0:14:50.453 --> 0:14:54.293 governments and then pushed through really quickly, is by these 0:14:54.893 --> 0:14:59.733 organizations with the conflicts of interest. The people of New Zealand, 0:15:00.293 --> 0:15:03.053 you know, they can say we don't actually want to 0:15:03.093 --> 0:15:05.613 do this anymore. It is possible. 0:15:06.253 --> 0:15:10.413 Can I offer my opinion that it's possible. But it's 0:15:10.453 --> 0:15:12.653 only possible if there is a is a if there 0:15:12.733 --> 0:15:16.093 is a very large ground swell. And at this point 0:15:16.173 --> 0:15:17.853 of time I struggle to see that. 0:15:18.533 --> 0:15:22.653 Yeah, and that's because I mean what we have now Unfortunately, 0:15:22.773 --> 0:15:25.253 you know, in April there was an RB and Z 0:15:25.493 --> 0:15:29.053 you know Digital Cash in New Zealand puff piece and 0:15:29.093 --> 0:15:33.133 what we see is a very obsequious legacy media that 0:15:33.333 --> 0:15:36.973 will not critically analyze this. And one of the big, 0:15:37.293 --> 0:15:40.173 the big takeaways that we want people to understand from 0:15:40.213 --> 0:15:43.693 our paper is that there is not a single academic 0:15:43.813 --> 0:15:48.373 expert or an expert that is lacking you know, the 0:15:48.413 --> 0:15:51.053 financial conflicts of interest, the complex of interests having worked 0:15:51.053 --> 0:15:54.453 with a management consultancy firm or you know, a big 0:15:54.453 --> 0:15:57.053 global bank. There is not a single expert in New 0:15:57.133 --> 0:16:03.053 Zealand talking about cpdc's critically and the potential for these 0:16:03.093 --> 0:16:07.653 technologies and the risk of what might happen should there 0:16:07.693 --> 0:16:11.453 be what's called unified ledger in time. So there's a 0:16:11.653 --> 0:16:14.493 there's a policy creep that can happen that can further, 0:16:16.173 --> 0:16:18.973 you know, push policy into the arms of the big 0:16:19.173 --> 0:16:22.733 big banks. So this is the this is the and 0:16:22.733 --> 0:16:26.613 this is what I've observed in my work looking at 0:16:26.813 --> 0:16:31.693 policy and regulation and new technologies is the information supporting 0:16:31.773 --> 0:16:35.893 the safety and efficacy of these technologies is produced by 0:16:35.973 --> 0:16:40.053 the very institutions with the conflicts of interest and and 0:16:40.213 --> 0:16:42.493 part of that real problem later and this is what 0:16:42.693 --> 0:16:46.453 my masters looked at, is the difficulty scientists and researchers 0:16:46.533 --> 0:16:53.653 have in accessing funding to research issues that is contrary 0:16:53.813 --> 0:16:58.813 or that might contradict the position of the government of 0:16:58.893 --> 0:17:02.493 the day. And so it's very difficult for any scientist 0:17:02.613 --> 0:17:05.573 or researcher to get long term funding that is not 0:17:05.733 --> 0:17:12.453 aligned with the interests of the ministry that is responsible 0:17:12.453 --> 0:17:16.253 for funding science. That's the Ministry for Business and Innovation 0:17:16.853 --> 0:17:21.253 and Employment. So mb is responsible for funding science. And 0:17:22.373 --> 0:17:26.133 that is a really big problem. So that scientists are 0:17:26.213 --> 0:17:28.973 cought and researchers are caught by the short and curlyes 0:17:29.293 --> 0:17:34.133 because they're financial because their funding is so precarious today, does. 0:17:33.933 --> 0:17:36.813 It make it worse that we are driving through an 0:17:36.853 --> 0:17:40.293 economic period that has put us in a very very 0:17:40.493 --> 0:17:41.413 difficult position. 0:17:42.013 --> 0:17:46.013 Well, well, I mean you have this sort of combined forces. 0:17:46.053 --> 0:17:49.173 You've got the lack of the freedom, of lack of 0:17:49.213 --> 0:17:53.613 academic freedom in New Zealand. You've got the obsequious sort 0:17:53.613 --> 0:17:57.093 of legacy media that doesn't have the resources or the 0:17:57.213 --> 0:18:01.893 somehow the inclination for long form critical journalism. So we've got, 0:18:02.333 --> 0:18:04.733 you know, and they're meant to be the fullest stay. 0:18:05.773 --> 0:18:07.773 Then if you think that, if you think about the 0:18:07.773 --> 0:18:12.453 scientists researchers that can't independently research, who do judges go 0:18:12.573 --> 0:18:17.133 to when there's a decision to be made or when 0:18:17.173 --> 0:18:20.653 people are calling for advice. So we see that the 0:18:20.773 --> 0:18:24.773 judiciary are always going to be a little bit captured 0:18:24.813 --> 0:18:30.333 by the executive, by the ministries and the agencies because 0:18:30.373 --> 0:18:35.693 they're producing the information inverted commas, evidence, the policy papers, 0:18:35.693 --> 0:18:39.173 the risk assessments. Then you add to the fact that 0:18:39.213 --> 0:18:46.773 there's an economic downturn, and the economic downturn provides if 0:18:46.853 --> 0:18:49.933 we lack sort of that information about how we make 0:18:50.053 --> 0:18:54.653 cash or the potential about of fiscal policy and the 0:18:54.693 --> 0:18:58.093 appropriations process. If we just only default and think that 0:18:58.133 --> 0:19:00.653 we need a UBI and that can only be made 0:19:00.733 --> 0:19:05.093 through the retail the seed, you know, sorry, the central bank, 0:19:05.133 --> 0:19:07.813 the Reserve Bank of New Zealand having the power to 0:19:08.973 --> 0:19:13.093 retail currencies. People think that's the only way we can 0:19:13.133 --> 0:19:17.693 actually solve financial problems. And we're in deep doo dooos, 0:19:18.053 --> 0:19:22.333 you know, So that the economic downturn is an antecedent 0:19:22.493 --> 0:19:26.893 I think, excuse my pronunciation, it's sort of alongside these 0:19:26.933 --> 0:19:29.213 other problems, but it's not the biggest problem, you know. 0:19:29.773 --> 0:19:32.613 And one of the interesting things I think is that 0:19:33.533 --> 0:19:35.253 we need to understand that the Reserve Bank of New 0:19:35.333 --> 0:19:39.173 Zealand has gone through, as Christian Hawksby stayed in twenty 0:19:39.213 --> 0:19:42.893 twenty two, the most significant changes since the Reserve Bank 0:19:42.933 --> 0:19:47.213 of New Zealand reforms of the nineteen eighties. In twenty 0:19:47.333 --> 0:19:50.253 twenty four at the he said to the Financial and 0:19:50.493 --> 0:19:53.933 Expenditure Committee, you know, they're going through this massive process 0:19:53.973 --> 0:20:00.773 of transformation and modernization. So the Reserve Bank has, interestingly, 0:20:01.453 --> 0:20:05.933 during the depths of COVID, when we have been really 0:20:05.973 --> 0:20:09.373 distracted with COVID, we've been very distracted. The people that 0:20:09.453 --> 0:20:15.653 are interested in politics or interested in justice and sort 0:20:15.693 --> 0:20:19.653 of civil constitutional human rights have been busy looking at 0:20:19.813 --> 0:20:26.333 what has been happening in terms of COVID legislation. Several acts, 0:20:26.893 --> 0:20:30.813 several bills have been passed that have been part of 0:20:30.853 --> 0:20:35.973 the Reserve Bank of New Zealand's transformation process. You know, 0:20:36.213 --> 0:20:40.413 one of the bills had the Monetary Policy Amendment Act 0:20:40.453 --> 0:20:44.613 had only fourteen submissions. The Financial Market Infrastructures Act in 0:20:45.213 --> 0:20:49.213 twenty twenty one had nine submissions to it, The Reserve 0:20:49.253 --> 0:20:52.053 Bank of New Zealand Act thirty one submissions, the Deposit 0:20:52.133 --> 0:20:57.253 Takers Act twenty forty three submissions. So the Reserve Bank 0:20:57.253 --> 0:21:01.253 of New Zealand has gone through the most significant transformation 0:21:01.413 --> 0:21:05.053 process through all this new legislation, and you look at 0:21:05.613 --> 0:21:08.613 how few people have sort of known about it, ormitted 0:21:08.653 --> 0:21:12.053 to it. And so we look, we again turned to 0:21:12.133 --> 0:21:15.813 the conventional legacy media that there's only been sort of 0:21:15.813 --> 0:21:18.773 reporting of this is what the Reserve Bank's you know, 0:21:18.973 --> 0:21:22.813 doing in a happy, little puffy, puffy pand you know, 0:21:22.973 --> 0:21:28.093 there's there's nothing critical critically looking at all this legislation 0:21:28.333 --> 0:21:31.733 and picking it apart. So, you know, Michael Riddell has 0:21:31.813 --> 0:21:34.333 been on poaking. Cassandra been doing quite a bit of 0:21:34.373 --> 0:21:39.333 work criticizing the RB and Z, but it's we've had 0:21:39.333 --> 0:21:43.773 such an amazing time and it's really surprising that that 0:21:43.853 --> 0:21:46.013 in particular has occurred over COVID. 0:21:47.013 --> 0:21:50.453 The Reserve Bank management reminds me very much of the 0:21:51.733 --> 0:21:55.293 military governance in the United States at the moment. And 0:21:55.333 --> 0:21:57.773 if you don't know what I mean, they have They 0:21:57.813 --> 0:22:03.573 have launched themselves into different directions, both of them different directions, 0:22:03.573 --> 0:22:08.053 but both of them woke and woke to an ultimate degree, 0:22:08.573 --> 0:22:09.253 I think. 0:22:11.093 --> 0:22:16.973 Yes. So the reason people are traditionally now and let's 0:22:17.013 --> 0:22:21.053 just preface this latent because because I'm a sociologist and 0:22:21.133 --> 0:22:23.893 I've been looking at this in depth over the say, 0:22:23.893 --> 0:22:26.133 the last three or four months, But I am very 0:22:26.133 --> 0:22:29.773 happy for people to criticize me if I am incorrect, 0:22:30.173 --> 0:22:32.373 But as long as we have a discussion about it, 0:22:33.133 --> 0:22:35.973 that is a wider, broader discussion looking at the big, 0:22:36.093 --> 0:22:38.893 big issues. So when you talk about them being woke, 0:22:39.533 --> 0:22:43.373 being woke means they're taking on this is what I 0:22:43.373 --> 0:22:48.013 aren't My understanding is they're taking on political issues or 0:22:48.133 --> 0:22:52.453 values that might not represent the average key way. And 0:22:52.573 --> 0:22:56.973 of course, the reason people have historically trusted central banks 0:22:57.053 --> 0:22:59.733 or the Reserve Bank of New Zealand is because they don't. 0:23:00.293 --> 0:23:04.573 They don't they're very constrained in what they can politically 0:23:04.653 --> 0:23:08.333 do because they can print money. They've been very construing. 0:23:08.533 --> 0:23:12.093 So if all of a sudden their powers in encompass 0:23:12.453 --> 0:23:18.053 climate change, which this has happened, that is a political 0:23:18.213 --> 0:23:22.253 shift and I think people need to understand that. So 0:23:22.293 --> 0:23:27.573 the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has actually more powers 0:23:28.173 --> 0:23:31.253 than the average and we discussed this in our paper. 0:23:31.493 --> 0:23:33.613 The Reserve Bank of New Zealand has more powers than 0:23:33.693 --> 0:23:37.813 the average central bank. So it's not only responsible for 0:23:37.973 --> 0:23:42.493 monetary policy, so you know, the ocr the central Bank 0:23:42.573 --> 0:23:47.013 is a financial markets regulator responsible for oversight of the 0:23:47.053 --> 0:23:52.253 financial system and prudential regulation of banks, deposit takers and 0:23:52.373 --> 0:23:57.573 insurance companies. As well as that the Reserve Bank engaged 0:23:57.613 --> 0:24:01.453 in large scale asset purchases and over COVID. And that's 0:24:01.493 --> 0:24:04.893 interesting because we think there's been about eleven billion dollars 0:24:04.893 --> 0:24:09.973 in losses there. And then interesting with this Financial Market 0:24:10.013 --> 0:24:13.493 Infrastructures Act in twenty twenty one, they introduced into this 0:24:13.613 --> 0:24:19.213 legislation the concept of the systemically important financial institution so 0:24:19.253 --> 0:24:23.533 they si they and that's the too big to Fail 0:24:23.653 --> 0:24:28.933 clauses that you're seeing coming through America that were introduced 0:24:28.933 --> 0:24:33.973 after the global financial crisis. So they're really broad powers 0:24:34.293 --> 0:24:37.613 are not just all those responsibilities. But we're seeing sort 0:24:37.653 --> 0:24:41.533 of we're seeing the political things come in the DEI, 0:24:42.573 --> 0:24:48.213 the climate change, and their budgets doubled as well. So 0:24:48.853 --> 0:24:53.453 this is extremely worrying because when you listen to the 0:24:53.453 --> 0:24:57.613 Select Committee February twenty twenty four, people are sort of 0:24:57.813 --> 0:25:04.133 asking the Bank's questions as if they're an organization that 0:25:04.173 --> 0:25:08.293 should make political decisions. I think people do not understand 0:25:08.493 --> 0:25:12.413 how important it is that that is the role of parliament, 0:25:12.693 --> 0:25:17.453 not unelected bureaucrats sitting in their own office, you know, 0:25:17.493 --> 0:25:20.133 sitting in offices that can't actually get voted out of office. 0:25:20.573 --> 0:25:23.893 So we're talking to the administrative state, and the administrative 0:25:23.973 --> 0:25:27.573 state has has has made huge in roads into many 0:25:27.573 --> 0:25:30.933 aspects of life. And I refer again to the United 0:25:30.933 --> 0:25:35.453 States where where basically it saw its birth. But here 0:25:35.813 --> 0:25:39.613 the best example that I can utilize is Auckland Transport, 0:25:41.333 --> 0:25:43.813 who have taken on roles that they were never they 0:25:43.813 --> 0:25:47.493 were never associated with, not supposed to be associated with 0:25:47.813 --> 0:25:54.333 extended their powers and during the period specifically that you 0:25:54.453 --> 0:25:57.173 refer to the COVID period, they were they had free 0:25:57.173 --> 0:25:59.813 hand to just do what they want. And we know, 0:26:00.533 --> 0:26:05.133 we know that they're under inspection because various people, starting 0:26:05.173 --> 0:26:08.333 with I suppose the latest mayor of Auckland, have been 0:26:08.413 --> 0:26:12.333 in assaulting them. Not to forget one or two podcasters, 0:26:12.853 --> 0:26:17.253 but the point being that that is one example, but 0:26:17.373 --> 0:26:20.453 there are lots of others, including I think the medical field. 0:26:21.693 --> 0:26:25.133 Absolutely, and so I think the the other problem is 0:26:25.133 --> 0:26:30.293 that these agencies and these ministries become so big that 0:26:30.413 --> 0:26:34.573