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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct

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Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith powered by Newstalks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you

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Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level.

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Speaker 3: We're back for another week back in.

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Speaker 2: Auckland, Elliott Smith with me, Liam Napier from the New

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Speaker 2: Zealand Heralds and Liam Well. The All Blacks are spitting

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Speaker 2: after their first loss under head coach Scott Robertson going

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Speaker 2: down thirty eight thirty to Argentina in Wellington.

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Speaker 3: I don't think a loss that many predictors.

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Speaker 2: Again, Argentina put in New Zealands on the back foot

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Speaker 2: at home and claiming the win. Your reaction, I guess

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Speaker 2: to that defeat first and foremost from an All Blacks perspective.

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Speaker 4: My reaction look fairly shocked. I think is probably the

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Speaker 4: best way to summon up ellis windy and whild week

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Speaker 4: in Wellington, wasn't it, as you mentioned, a result that

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Speaker 4: nobody saw coming. Really the Pumas, I'm certain, clearly had

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Speaker 4: belief that they could pull that off. And pull it off.

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Speaker 4: They did. Look, I guess there were on reflection signs

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Speaker 4: that this All Black team were a bit shaky and

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Speaker 4: vulnerable throughout July, that the romp against Fijis side in

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Speaker 4: San Diego. They were very unconvincing against England's actually had

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Speaker 4: some criticism for being too hard on them. You know,

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Speaker 4: I'm saying that they had some escapes. Well, look, there

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Speaker 4: were clearly vulnerabilities there and they've been brought to a

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Speaker 4: head again. This is a massive reality check, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: I think when you take a step back, this is

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Speaker 4: a group that is finding their feet. They haven't been

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Speaker 4: together that long. But look, Razor Robson came in. He's

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Speaker 4: been painted as a bit of a messiah in some

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Speaker 4: parts after what he did with the Crusaders phenomenal record.

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Speaker 4: How much of a reality check is this for Razor

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Speaker 4: and his coaching group.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it has to be a severe one

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Speaker 2: for them because they were out coached, outplayed on the

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Speaker 2: weekend and for me, I'm struggling to see what the

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Speaker 2: game plan is from the All Blacks perspective. England got

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Speaker 2: them into an army wrescole convincingly in that both of

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Speaker 2: those two tests and New Zealand couldn't escape Fiji aside,

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Speaker 2: the same thing happened against Argentina. The opposition teams at

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Speaker 2: the moment seem to have a very very good way

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Speaker 2: of bringing New Zealand into an arm wrestole, realizing that

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Speaker 2: the All Blacks don't like it. The All Blacks want

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Speaker 2: to play with front football, they want to play fast,

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Speaker 2: and when the All Blacks can't, they struggle to get

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Speaker 2: their game going. Other teams seem more comfortable playing in

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Speaker 2: the arm wrestle than the All Blacks seem to be,

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Speaker 2: So I think there needs to be from an All

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Speaker 2: Blacks perspective, you almost need to walk towards it. Now

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Speaker 2: you have this theme this together together, we walk well,

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Speaker 2: you almost need to walk towards that arm wrestle and go.

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Speaker 2: If this is what we're going to be dragged into,

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Speaker 2: here's how we do it. Here's how we get out

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Speaker 2: out of it. But what we saw on the weekend

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Speaker 2: was a lot of scrambling from the All Blacks, a

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Speaker 2: lot of unconvincing kicking, a lot of headless and brainless

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Speaker 2: passing at times from the All Blacks. That one that

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Speaker 2: stands out to me is that one around the sixty

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Speaker 2: sixth minute where there were two passes back from about

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Speaker 2: fifty meter mark after a lineout steal I think mom

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Speaker 2: was SV and then another one went back into the

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Speaker 2: end goal. Recora Juana has to force it in their

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Speaker 2: goal Argentine to get the ball and then score eventually

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Speaker 2: from that. So they lack an ability I think when

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Speaker 2: they do get into an arm wrestil. Now, obviously they

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Speaker 2: got two wins against England and managed to win the

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Speaker 2: arm wrestle in the end on Saturday night, they didn't

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Speaker 2: against Argentina. So one was struggling to see what the

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Speaker 2: game plan is from the All Blacks, and two when

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Speaker 2: they had drawn into an arm wrestle against opposition, they

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Speaker 2: are struggling to find a way to get out of it.

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Speaker 4: There's a few things to unpack, it, aren't they. I

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Speaker 4: I think there's a lack of leadership. Where I see

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Speaker 4: that most evident is at the back end of that game. Now,

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Speaker 4: against England, the All Blacks found a way to escape

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Speaker 4: at Eden Park. It was Boden Barrack pretty much single

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Speaker 4: handedly pulling them out of the bag there. But in Dunedin,

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Speaker 4: had Marcus Smith kick better, they could have well lost

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Speaker 4: both of those tests against England.

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Speaker 5: It really was that fraud.

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Speaker 4: Now you go to Wellington and against the Pumas and

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Speaker 4: the All Blacks have been together longer. It's only five

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Speaker 4: weeks or so, but the minimum expectation was progress they

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Speaker 4: and they regressed in several areas against England. They were

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Speaker 4: very proficient under the high ball. England targeted them there

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Speaker 4: and the wings were good. Their kicking game at times

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Speaker 4: was good. And then you look at the Pumas and

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Speaker 4: either they didn't plan for it, they didn't execute. They

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Speaker 4: could not escape their twenty two at times with the

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Speaker 4: Pumas long deep kickoffs. TJ Perrenara running taking a number

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Speaker 4: of steps with his box kick got charged twice. There

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Speaker 4: was another occasion where they were throwing the ball wild

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Speaker 4: offloads and they're twenty two to try and get out.

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Speaker 4: I think it was Mark t Leah caught the ball.

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Speaker 4: So that's a clear area of focus. But the lack

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Speaker 4: of leadership I think in the you we speaking about

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Speaker 4: those passes. Artie Severe and Damian McKenzie made those passes.

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Speaker 4: They weren't Wallace a Titi and Cortez Ratima. Those are

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Speaker 4: two of your most experienced figures on the park, influential

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Speaker 4: characters and those uncharacteristic eras sever Reese with the tap

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Speaker 4: back just before halftime. These are unforced eras. This is

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Speaker 4: not the Puma's applying huge amount of heat in certain areas,

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Speaker 4: and they did that, but these are unforced eras brain

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Speaker 4: explosions from the All Blacks and we shouldn't be seeing

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Speaker 4: that at this level. So I think a real spotlight

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Speaker 4: on the on field leadership. Are the All Blacks implementing

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Speaker 4: a game plan? Is there a disconnect between players and coaches?

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Speaker 4: Is it an accuracy or execution thing. There's a number

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Speaker 4: of things for them to amend in the space of

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Speaker 4: seven days.

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Speaker 2: There are, and I think we'll get into the selection

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Speaker 2: stuff in a moment or two, but I think that

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Speaker 2: game plan is not really becoming clear. You'd think by

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Speaker 2: game four you'd know, Okay, this is the way the

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Speaker 2: All Blacks want to play. And we tooked a couple

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Speaker 2: of months back before they even played their first test

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Speaker 2: around what we saw from Scott Robinson and the Crusaders,

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Speaker 2: and that wasn't a run at all cost strategy. It

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Speaker 2: was based on forward work, It was based on getting

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Speaker 2: in the right areas of the ground and using the

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Speaker 2: strengths there like the line out drive like the scrum

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Speaker 2: and getting into the right areas of the ground initially

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Speaker 2: and then backing your backs to do the work once

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Speaker 2: you were there. But there wasn't a flashy thing. Now

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Speaker 2: it seems like they're trying to get out of trouble,

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Speaker 2: the battling to get out of trouble. When they do,

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Speaker 2: it's more a sigh of relief than anything, and they

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Speaker 2: don't progress after that. It's more like, Okay, well we've

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Speaker 2: managed to get out of that hole, but there's no

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Speaker 2: thought of how do we actually get into the twenty two,

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Speaker 2: how do we build some attack. I think the opportunities

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Speaker 2: to sustain pressure or build pressure in the twin too

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Speaker 2: were few and far between. From the All Blacks in Wellington.

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Speaker 2: They just didn't do it for long enough, and when

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Speaker 2: they did, Mark t Lee was rewarded with a try

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Speaker 2: when the Fords went up the middle. And I suppose

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Speaker 2: this is an good opportunity as any to get into

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Speaker 2: some potential changes, but I think they're missing a ball

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Speaker 2: carrier in the Fords.

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Speaker 3: We saw. I thought Sam Dowry played very well in

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Speaker 3: the line out and.

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Speaker 2: Also carried wise, but I think Ethan blackadd had a

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Speaker 2: quiet testalled and Papali as well. I think they're missing

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Speaker 2: a ball carrier there now, whether that's Samma penny Fee

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Speaker 2: now for me and I don't know whether they would

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Speaker 2: think about doing this, but I think they should seriously

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Speaker 2: consider it as moving Ardie Savia to open side Flanka

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Speaker 2: and bring in Wallace a TT at number eight. For me,

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Speaker 2: that gives you a dynamic ball carrier in Wallace to TT.

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Speaker 2: But you've still got Ardi there. He can do a

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Speaker 2: lot of the work. It doesn't all fall on his shoulders.

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Speaker 3: A lot of that.

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Speaker 2: On Saturday night we saw him making a lot of

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Speaker 2: carries trying to get some go forward for the team

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Speaker 2: with Wallacer TT there. He's a player capable of doing so.

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Speaker 2: We saw that during the Chief season, very very young.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's worthy of a consideration at least

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Speaker 2: to go with that because the Fords just aren't punching

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Speaker 2: Ford hard enough to build that sustained pressure and get

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Speaker 2: the all blacks at front football and getting over the

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Speaker 2: advantage line. They've been pushed backwards more often than not.

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Speaker 2: There were times on the weekend where they would get

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Speaker 2: near to the twenty two one attack and then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden they be pushed back to the ten

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Speaker 2: meter mark one halfway. So for me that's mitigated some

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Speaker 2: What if you bring in some more ball carriers and

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Speaker 2: that loose for trier a.

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Speaker 4: Couple of points to pick up on there. I'll start

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Speaker 4: with the loose forwards. I agree with you that the

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Speaker 4: balance and composition of the All Blacks loose forwards is

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Speaker 4: not right. And Dalton Papa le ethan blackheader, and Luke

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Speaker 4: Jacobson who was unavailable with hamstring injury at the weekend

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Speaker 4: are very similar players. They are great defenders, they high

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Speaker 4: work great, but they are not big ball carriers. And

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Speaker 4: with Ardie, I thought played well at the weekends from

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Speaker 4: a ball carrying perspective, but that the composition is out there,

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Speaker 4: so I agree with you that that needs a serious look.

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Speaker 4: Do they look at Sam Kine. He's not necessarily a

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Speaker 4: ball carrier, but he is a very abrasive character. And

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Speaker 4: one area where the All Blacks have consistently struggled this

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Speaker 4: year against England and the Pumas is the breakdown. They

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Speaker 4: knew the Pumas were coming there and they couldn't counter it.

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Speaker 4: That the Pumas had great success on turnover possession. They

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Speaker 4: scored their first try off a turnover. Pablo Monteta went

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Speaker 4: across the field and delivered the short ball for their

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Speaker 4: first try. Their second try came off counter attack as well,

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Speaker 4: so very good in transition. But they found a lot

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Speaker 4: of success slowing the All Blacks ball, frustrating them in

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Speaker 4: that regard. So they need to amend their breakdown and

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Speaker 4: that's not a new issue for this All Black group.

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Speaker 4: And the second is when we look at ball carriers,

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Speaker 4: it's not just the loose forwards, and so you probably

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Speaker 4: seeing someone like a Patrick to Polotu as well in

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Speaker 4: the second row. Like you say, Sam Darry was excellent.

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Speaker 4: I think the All Blacks won their first fourteen lineouts,

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Speaker 4: so their lineout was exceptional, but then it completely shat

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Speaker 4: the beds when it mattered most in the last quarter

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Speaker 4: when a suffer more come on came on, missed two

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Speaker 4: lineout throws. Now, the All Blacks have a specialist lineout

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Speaker 4: throwing coach in Corey Flynn, so this is an area

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Speaker 4: that should be proficient.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but has never been a great lineout thrower. That's

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Speaker 2: always been a weakness of him. And to go right,

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Speaker 2: you're working with Corey Flynn. It's not magically going to

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Speaker 2: sort that out in a matter of three weeks.

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Speaker 5: It's not. But let me put this to and look.

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Speaker 2: It's all like the Hurricanes are ebited. This mine out

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Speaker 2: set peak coach.

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Speaker 4: This might be harsh, but if a halfback couldn't hit

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Speaker 4: his target, would he be in the All Blacks?

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Speaker 3: No? And that's the thing with it.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's a very shallow depth in terms

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Speaker 2: of hooker at the moment with the SAMASONI Takeyah out

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Speaker 2: injured as well. Atom a great ball carrier, impressive ball carrier,

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Speaker 2: but lineout throwing has been a weakness to his entire career.

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Speaker 3: It's always the knock on them.

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Speaker 5: Yep, totally.

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Speaker 4: And when you're on the bench, in particular as a hooker,

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Speaker 4: you are going to be coming on in these pressure

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Speaker 4: moments when there's two points in a match, when you

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Speaker 4: need to come back, when the set piece is extremely important,

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Speaker 4: and when we talk about the passing moment, the lineouts

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Speaker 4: were just as fundamental. And the All Blacks losing this

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Speaker 4: game two miss lineout throws when they were looking to

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Speaker 4: build field position and pressure completely took their foot off

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Speaker 4: the throat, So that's another area of concern. And just

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Speaker 4: one other point I want to pick up on that

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Speaker 4: you made there. The All Blacks looked their best when

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Speaker 4: they went up the guts, ye when they went pick

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Speaker 4: and drive close to the ruck when in the heart

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Speaker 4: of the of the pomas around the fringes, quick picking

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Speaker 4: drives direct. Mark Tala scored off at Antonlina Brown's try

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Speaker 4: came after the All Blacks made some real inroads up

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Speaker 4: the guts. So maybe they're guilty of actually trying to

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Speaker 4: play too much rugby at times and they just need

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Speaker 4: to tuck and drive and be a bit more simplus

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Speaker 4: a bit more aggressive, a bit more direct, because that's

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Speaker 4: when they actually look their best.

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Speaker 2: It is, but they weren't getting into the right areas

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Speaker 2: of the ground either. Then that goes back to the

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Speaker 2: kicking of both Tja Padanara and Damien McKenzie. Now I

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Speaker 2: think McKenzie's head four tests now to stamp his mark

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Speaker 2: on the team.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's working.

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Speaker 2: Scott Robertson said yesterday that they will stick with him.

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Speaker 2: He's back to him into stay at ten for the

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Speaker 2: time being, but that they're lacking a lot through the

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Speaker 2: kicking game at the moment, and you see Jordie's in

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Speaker 2: there as well with kicking and Bote and Barrett as well,

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Speaker 2: but they're just not getting into the right areas of

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Speaker 2: the grant And that falls back into that nineteen twelve

254
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Speaker 2: fifteen of the All Blacks team to get them out

255
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Speaker 2: of their own twenty two and get them into the

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Speaker 2: opposition half. It's just not clicking at the moment from

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Speaker 2: a All Black suspective. And you know, they talk about

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Speaker 2: game management being a work on for Damien McKenzie, which

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Speaker 2: is all well and good, but he's played fifty one

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Speaker 2: tests now. He's played a lot, and I know he's

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Speaker 2: spent a lot of it coming off the bench, But

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Speaker 2: you shouldn't be going game management to work on when

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Speaker 2: you've clocked more than fifty tes thity country.

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Speaker 5: I agree.

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Speaker 4: The problem is the All Blacks don't have too many

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Speaker 4: levers to pull here. It's basically him or Boden, Barrett

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Speaker 4: and Bowden hasn't played ten for the All Blacks really

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Speaker 4: for the best part of two years, so there's no

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Speaker 4: guarantees that he's going to come in and flick the

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Speaker 4: switch either. So look, Damian McKenzie did some good things

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Speaker 4: in that game. There was a chip and chase for

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Speaker 4: Sam Darry's opening try, he delivered the skip ball for

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Speaker 4: Antolina Brown's try. I thought he did have some better

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Speaker 4: kicking moments in that match.

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Speaker 5: Later on. He drilled the ball long and deep a

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Speaker 5: couple of times.

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Speaker 4: But I agree he's not the commanding presence and that

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Speaker 4: is costing the All Blacks, and I think there's issues

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Speaker 4: outside him as well. Jordi Barrett looks a bit off.

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Speaker 4: His impacts been really nullified so far this year. He's

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Speaker 4: finding and even looking for contact a lot rather than

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Speaker 4: running at weakshows. So whether that's you know, changing in

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Speaker 4: midfield partnerships, it could be multiple voices when you look

284
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Speaker 4: at Lea McDonald and Jason Holland effectively you know, two

285
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Speaker 4: backs coaches.

286
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Speaker 5: Maybe some mixed messaging there, I'm not sure.

287
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Speaker 4: So if we broaden the conversation out there, we're looking

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Speaker 4: at ten right with Damian McKenzie, Boden Barrett, and you

289
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Speaker 4: have to bring in Will Jordan to that conversation. I

290
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Speaker 4: think the All Blacks will try and include all three

291
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Speaker 4: of them this week, and perhaps they've been very clear

292
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Speaker 4: that they looked at Will Jordan as a fallback first,

293
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Speaker 4: but I would not be surprised to see him start

294
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Speaker 4: on the wing. He came on, played thirty minutes at

295
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Speaker 4: the weekend and again the All Blacks looked their best

296
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Speaker 4: when he was on the park, challenging the fringes. A

297
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Speaker 4: couple of inside balls they got denied Damien McKenzie's try

298
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Speaker 4: for the Ford pass. I think there was actually an

299
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Speaker 4: obstruction for Fletcher news around that as well, but he

300
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Speaker 4: brought real impacts. So for me this weekend be looking

301
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Speaker 4: at Will Jordan and Caleb Clark on the wings. I

302
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Speaker 4: think Jordan has to come into this team because the

303
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Speaker 4: attack is really struggling to find that spark and penetration

304
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Speaker 4: as well.

305
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Speaker 3: So you wouldn't have Mark t Leer in this week.

306
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Speaker 4: No, I don't think so severe Reese I wouldn't have

307
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Speaker 4: selected last week. And I just think they need to change.

308
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Speaker 4: Mark to Leer didn't offer a lot for me at

309
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Speaker 4: the weekend. There's that's perhaps been a bit knee jerk.

310
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Speaker 4: You know, Mark de Leier has been in good form,

311
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Speaker 4: but I just think that they need to find some sparks,

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Speaker 4: some changes.

313
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Speaker 2: From what you say, from what we've had from Scott

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Speaker 2: Scott Robertson and Dame McKenzie is going to remain at ten.

315
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Speaker 3: What about halfback?

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Speaker 4: That's very straightforward for me. I personally, I wouldn't have

317
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Speaker 4: started TJ last week and there's a number of reasons

318
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Speaker 4: for that. I thought he the difference in speeds both

319
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Speaker 4: to the base and with pass was very evident when

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Speaker 4: Cortes are to ma and Noah Hotham came into the

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Speaker 4: mix after his injury in the first Test against englm

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Speaker 4: TJ's also leaving at the end of the year, so

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Speaker 4: to start a guy and stick with him doesn't make

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Speaker 4: a lot of sense.

325
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Speaker 2: T J Penina has played his best rugby for the

326
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Speaker 2: All Blacks when he's come off the bench. He's played

327
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Speaker 2: the majority of his career behind Aaron Smith, and I

328
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Speaker 2: think he's only started maybe a quarter. Roughly of his

329
00:16:31,653 --> 00:16:34,133
Speaker 2: tests have been starts, the rest have come off the bench.

330
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Speaker 2: He's been that changed for the All Blacks. It's a

331
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Speaker 2: different kettle of fish starting, especially doing it as you say,

332
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Speaker 2: at the back end of his All Blacks career. For me,

333
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Speaker 2: you start with Quartez Raetimer and you bring on t

334
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Speaker 2: J Peninara as quite unquite an insurance policy off the bench.

335
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Speaker 5: Who can we very experienced had to bring.

336
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Speaker 2: Close out a game. That's for me the way you

337
00:16:53,733 --> 00:16:55,653
Speaker 2: go about it. You've got Noah Hotham who's waiting in

338
00:16:55,693 --> 00:16:57,853
Speaker 2: the wings as well. But for where you got the moment,

339
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Speaker 2: I think t J Peninah is the kind of player

340
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Speaker 2: that you bring off the bench and just settle things

341
00:17:01,613 --> 00:17:04,133
Speaker 2: down or whatever you the tempo of the game needs

342
00:17:04,173 --> 00:17:06,333
Speaker 2: at a certain point. That's been his skill set. He's

343
00:17:06,373 --> 00:17:08,653
Speaker 2: been very very good at at then asking him to

344
00:17:08,693 --> 00:17:11,053
Speaker 2: start and yus he's waited a long time for it.

345
00:17:11,093 --> 00:17:14,693
Speaker 2: Starts in All Blacks Jersey behind Aaron Smith, who I

346
00:17:14,733 --> 00:17:15,653
Speaker 2: think we usually touched on.

347
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Speaker 3: We had him on the pod. You know.

348
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Speaker 2: It was very very lucky with injuries, didn't have many

349
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Speaker 2: during his career, so he's had to wait for the chance.

350
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Speaker 3: I get that.

351
00:17:22,013 --> 00:17:25,813
Speaker 2: But his success has been closing out games and that's

352
00:17:25,813 --> 00:17:29,013
Speaker 2: where I think he should be selected this week is

353
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Speaker 2: in that twenty one Jersey to close out the game.

354
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Speaker 2: Depending on how it looks. Full pack for you look,

355
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Speaker 2: I would like to see a black out of Sava

356
00:17:36,613 --> 00:17:38,973
Speaker 2: and well so Tt loose Ford Triger. I don't know

357
00:17:39,013 --> 00:17:40,573
Speaker 2: if they will go with that, but I think that's

358
00:17:40,573 --> 00:17:43,493
Speaker 2: worth considering. As I touched on before, what other changes

359
00:17:43,533 --> 00:17:44,853
Speaker 2: may be to the pack do you think could be

360
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Speaker 2: in the offing this week?

361
00:17:46,253 --> 00:17:50,053
Speaker 4: Yeah, just going back to the TJ Courtiez debate, I

362
00:17:50,093 --> 00:17:55,013
Speaker 4: agree about the way around. I'd go Courtiz to start

363
00:17:55,093 --> 00:17:58,973
Speaker 4: TJ off the bench calm heads, but they're also they

364
00:17:59,053 --> 00:18:04,333
Speaker 4: both left foots, so Courtiers come in and the red

365
00:18:04,373 --> 00:18:05,973
Speaker 4: hot focus for the All Blacks this week is on

366
00:18:06,013 --> 00:18:08,693
Speaker 4: the kicking strategy, which they didn't get right. That does

367
00:18:08,733 --> 00:18:12,613
Speaker 4: place a lot of pressure on Cortez, young guy and experienced.

368
00:18:13,453 --> 00:18:16,173
Speaker 4: The Puma's going to come, you know, a lot of

369
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Speaker 4: pressure on him. So the All Blacks, their four pack

370
00:18:18,653 --> 00:18:20,973
Speaker 4: needs to get their blockers in so the halfbacks can clear.

371
00:18:22,053 --> 00:18:26,453
Speaker 4: And while he's great support play, good runner, very sharp

372
00:18:26,453 --> 00:18:29,893
Speaker 4: from the base, kicking is probably an ongoing work on

373
00:18:30,053 --> 00:18:33,533
Speaker 4: for him and Noah Hotham, so very interesting to see

374
00:18:33,533 --> 00:18:35,453
Speaker 4: how that plays out. I agree with you about the

375
00:18:35,493 --> 00:18:40,053
Speaker 4: loose Fords. I wouldn't mind some of Penny coming in

376
00:18:40,213 --> 00:18:42,293
Speaker 4: just for a bit of size. I thought he was

377
00:18:42,333 --> 00:18:45,653
Speaker 4: a bit of a scapegoat against England from a physicality perspective.

378
00:18:45,973 --> 00:18:48,933
Speaker 4: He was meant to be that enforcer and didn't bring that,

379
00:18:49,013 --> 00:18:53,293
Speaker 4: but name me one all black Ford that consistently physically

380
00:18:53,333 --> 00:18:57,813
Speaker 4: dominated that series against England didn't have one exactly. So

381
00:18:58,933 --> 00:19:03,693
Speaker 4: again he paid the price I think for that. So

382
00:19:03,853 --> 00:19:06,933
Speaker 4: I think whether he's on the bench or starting on,

383
00:19:07,093 --> 00:19:10,213
Speaker 4: like to see Sumer Penny coming to the mix, the

384
00:19:10,213 --> 00:19:13,093
Speaker 4: Alblacks don't really have anywhere else to turn in terms

385
00:19:13,173 --> 00:19:15,653
Speaker 4: of their locks, and I think to be fair, their

386
00:19:15,693 --> 00:19:16,573
Speaker 4: locks were good to Yeah.

387
00:19:16,613 --> 00:19:18,853
Speaker 3: I thought Darien had good games.

388
00:19:18,653 --> 00:19:20,413
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there was a lot of variety with the

389
00:19:20,453 --> 00:19:22,813
Speaker 4: liner I mentioned before they won their first fourteen that

390
00:19:22,933 --> 00:19:29,613
Speaker 4: was with blackhead a severe Darry Tupouvai basically their whole

391
00:19:29,613 --> 00:19:33,893
Speaker 4: four pack winning ball at lineout times. So Tupouva tacked

392
00:19:33,893 --> 00:19:36,133
Speaker 4: that box. In terms of running the line out, Sam

393
00:19:36,213 --> 00:19:39,093
Speaker 4: Darry was the key target and he was very impressive.

394
00:19:39,973 --> 00:19:41,773
Speaker 4: I don't think you can fault the front row. There

395
00:19:41,773 --> 00:19:43,653
Speaker 4: wasn't a scrum for sixty minutes, which is busiz.

396
00:19:43,773 --> 00:19:45,813
Speaker 2: We haven't touched on that. It was very very odd

397
00:19:45,853 --> 00:19:48,253
Speaker 2: and you look at the All Blacks in the Test

398
00:19:48,293 --> 00:19:50,413
Speaker 2: against England. They used that scrum as a weapon and

399
00:19:50,453 --> 00:19:54,773
Speaker 2: they use it to get themselves up the fields, earned penalties,

400
00:19:54,893 --> 00:19:57,813
Speaker 2: they and they just didn't get them on the weekends.

401
00:19:57,853 --> 00:20:01,133
Speaker 2: Now whether that was just an anomaly in terms of

402
00:20:01,253 --> 00:20:03,213
Speaker 2: just not being called, but it was quite bizarre seeing

403
00:20:03,213 --> 00:20:06,053
Speaker 2: Ethan to group and Tri Loomis trudge off the field

404
00:20:06,053 --> 00:20:08,093
Speaker 2: without having a scrum to worry about. And I saw

405
00:20:08,373 --> 00:20:11,213
Speaker 2: and the group say it was on the All Blacks

406
00:20:11,213 --> 00:20:12,973
Speaker 2: social media channels. He found it a hard game to

407
00:20:12,973 --> 00:20:16,133
Speaker 2: get into because there were no scrums and you can't

408
00:20:16,133 --> 00:20:18,693
Speaker 2: manufacture scrums, it can't make them happen to an extent

409
00:20:18,733 --> 00:20:22,213
Speaker 2: of opposition ball, but not having that using the game

410
00:20:22,293 --> 00:20:23,693
Speaker 2: was very very unusual.

411
00:20:23,613 --> 00:20:24,173
Speaker 5: A bizarre.

412
00:20:24,173 --> 00:20:27,853
Speaker 4: I can't really remember a test like it, and so

413
00:20:28,413 --> 00:20:30,813
Speaker 4: very hard for a prop to get into a game

414
00:20:30,853 --> 00:20:34,973
Speaker 4: without locking horns and getting down to you know what

415
00:20:35,053 --> 00:20:38,213
Speaker 4: they know and love. So I wouldn't make any changes

416
00:20:38,213 --> 00:20:41,013
Speaker 4: in the front row. Before we come to the All

417
00:20:41,013 --> 00:20:43,933
Speaker 4: Black's back line, I guess the bench probably lacked impact

418
00:20:44,093 --> 00:20:47,413
Speaker 4: other than Will Jordan, and that's where we probably expected

419
00:20:47,453 --> 00:20:49,293
Speaker 4: the All Blacks to come over the top of the Pumas.

420
00:20:49,293 --> 00:20:51,853
Speaker 4: And in fact it was the Pumas bench likes of

421
00:20:51,893 --> 00:20:55,653
Speaker 4: August and Crevy and others who really brought impact for them.

422
00:20:55,813 --> 00:20:59,733
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was it was Crevy and Josh Glovey in

423
00:20:59,973 --> 00:21:01,893
Speaker 2: terms of their props. So I thought came on and

424
00:21:01,933 --> 00:21:06,893
Speaker 2: really added size and impacts. Craevy was everywhere. I thought

425
00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:09,213
Speaker 2: when he came on the part, he's thirty nine years

426
00:21:09,253 --> 00:21:13,613
Speaker 2: of age and he was just getting everywhere around it. Yeah,

427
00:21:13,653 --> 00:21:15,733
Speaker 2: I thought, Actually the bench when they selected it the

428
00:21:15,773 --> 00:21:18,853
Speaker 2: all Blacks, you go, okay, there's some explosiveness near with

429
00:21:18,933 --> 00:21:21,413
Speaker 2: Will Jordan, who is probably only a short term option

430
00:21:21,493 --> 00:21:25,253
Speaker 2: on the bench. Rico Yuwani, you could impact causes ms TSI,

431
00:21:26,333 --> 00:21:28,173
Speaker 2: but they just it's offer on more. It just didn't happen,

432
00:21:28,293 --> 00:21:30,573
Speaker 2: just didn't click, and with the lineup beginning to struggle

433
00:21:30,613 --> 00:21:34,093
Speaker 2: when Alma came on, things just didn't really get going.

434
00:21:34,173 --> 00:21:37,893
Speaker 2: So do you put Boden Barrett back to that bench

435
00:21:37,973 --> 00:21:42,333
Speaker 2: roll where he came in for the two tests against

436
00:21:42,373 --> 00:21:44,773
Speaker 2: England and maybe look to Peter Fetter come back in

437
00:21:44,813 --> 00:21:47,733
Speaker 2: at fifteen again, put Will Jordan back on the on

438
00:21:47,773 --> 00:21:49,613
Speaker 2: the right wing. Petter Fetta, we don't know if he's

439
00:21:49,613 --> 00:21:52,013
Speaker 2: fit again. Didn't sound like a major issue injury issue,

440
00:21:52,013 --> 00:21:54,413
Speaker 2: but maybe Peter Fetter's worth of another look, or do

441
00:21:54,453 --> 00:21:56,373
Speaker 2: you bring him off the bench. I think there is

442
00:21:56,693 --> 00:22:00,693
Speaker 2: an issue around the bench that it looked more explosive

443
00:22:00,693 --> 00:22:02,373
Speaker 2: than it actually delivered. But they need to get that

444
00:22:02,413 --> 00:22:03,013
Speaker 2: mix right.

445
00:22:03,573 --> 00:22:04,573
Speaker 5: And even the timing of it.

446
00:22:04,653 --> 00:22:08,693
Speaker 4: I think Rico Jani and Wallace the TT only you know,

447
00:22:08,773 --> 00:22:12,013
Speaker 4: ten to fifteen minutes. I'd like to see Setisi come

448
00:22:12,053 --> 00:22:14,533
Speaker 4: on a bit earlier. From an impact point of view.

449
00:22:14,893 --> 00:22:16,973
Speaker 4: What about the back club we've talked about, you know,

450
00:22:17,053 --> 00:22:21,813
Speaker 4: McKenzie at ten. One of the big selection talking point

451
00:22:21,893 --> 00:22:25,533
Speaker 4: last week was Antelena Brown and at center over Riquowhani,

452
00:22:25,693 --> 00:22:29,733
Speaker 4: who had been the first choice center for the past

453
00:22:30,093 --> 00:22:34,453
Speaker 4: four years. Essentially, do you envision any changes throughout the

454
00:22:34,533 --> 00:22:36,493
Speaker 4: back club look?

455
00:22:36,653 --> 00:22:37,293
Speaker 3: I think.

456
00:22:39,173 --> 00:22:41,173
Speaker 2: I think it on the wings or hide stick with

457
00:22:41,173 --> 00:22:43,533
Speaker 2: Mark Khalaire. I'd stick with him there, but we could

458
00:22:43,573 --> 00:22:44,613
Speaker 2: move him across to the.

459
00:22:46,853 --> 00:22:48,173
Speaker 3: Look. You stick with him at left wing, you can

460
00:22:48,213 --> 00:22:49,573
Speaker 3: move him to the right wing. He's that capable.

461
00:22:49,573 --> 00:22:51,213
Speaker 2: But it depends around what you do with Will Jordan,

462
00:22:51,253 --> 00:22:52,853
Speaker 2: where you play him a right wing, where you start

463
00:22:52,853 --> 00:22:55,933
Speaker 2: Ham at fullback. Severy Reese I think probably just needs

464
00:22:55,933 --> 00:22:58,773
Speaker 2: a wee bit of a break, but again he's the

465
00:22:58,813 --> 00:23:01,133
Speaker 2: kind of player now they're pretty reluctant to use a

466
00:23:01,133 --> 00:23:03,853
Speaker 2: specialist winger on the bench. We've seen a few times

467
00:23:03,893 --> 00:23:06,373
Speaker 2: as the Crusaders. The view sever Reese as someone that

468
00:23:06,413 --> 00:23:09,373
Speaker 2: can inject in the last twenty two five minutes. He's

469
00:23:09,373 --> 00:23:11,973
Speaker 2: a kind of player that you can get over the ball.

470
00:23:12,013 --> 00:23:14,813
Speaker 2: He can just be that spark that maybe a look

471
00:23:14,893 --> 00:23:17,493
Speaker 2: to him. It handicaps you to an extent because you

472
00:23:17,813 --> 00:23:19,853
Speaker 2: don't get that utility value out of him, but maybe

473
00:23:19,853 --> 00:23:22,453
Speaker 2: you could look to bring him off the bench. For

474
00:23:22,533 --> 00:23:24,493
Speaker 2: Angelina Brown, I thought he had a good game without

475
00:23:24,493 --> 00:23:27,693
Speaker 2: being spectacular. It was a solid game for him, but

476
00:23:29,133 --> 00:23:32,093
Speaker 2: he got found out for the first try defensively wise,

477
00:23:32,133 --> 00:23:34,053
Speaker 2: so I think that's a work in progress.

478
00:23:34,693 --> 00:23:36,773
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he did enough to warrant another start.

479
00:23:36,773 --> 00:23:39,333
Speaker 4: It would be harsh to single out he made a

480
00:23:39,373 --> 00:23:41,213
Speaker 4: couple of line breaks, but you've got skin for that

481
00:23:41,253 --> 00:23:44,213
Speaker 4: Perma's opening try. So I don't think you want to

482
00:23:44,213 --> 00:23:48,173
Speaker 4: be chopping and changing combinations every week. But I think

483
00:23:48,213 --> 00:23:50,613
Speaker 4: that the Wings definitely need a look. And you mentioned

484
00:23:50,653 --> 00:23:54,333
Speaker 4: Peter Festa. I think that's that's a worthy conversation, but

485
00:23:54,373 --> 00:23:56,573
Speaker 4: I would be surprised if Boden Bear isn't. Then that

486
00:23:56,653 --> 00:24:01,213
Speaker 4: makes purely from a kicking vision perspective, which is going

487
00:24:01,293 --> 00:24:02,813
Speaker 4: to be a big focus for the All Blacks.

488
00:24:02,933 --> 00:24:04,653
Speaker 2: That'll do us So our first half of our podcast

489
00:24:04,733 --> 00:24:07,853
Speaker 2: with Rugby Direct, powered by friends at Forklift Solutions.

490
00:24:07,853 --> 00:24:09,733
Speaker 3: Back with the Sea half after this.

491
00:24:09,733 --> 00:24:14,253
Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.

492
00:24:19,213 --> 00:24:21,213
Speaker 1: Rugby Direct, Howard Babies Talk.

493
00:24:22,293 --> 00:24:25,013
Speaker 2: We're back now on Rugby Direct with our final four.

494
00:24:25,133 --> 00:24:28,173
Speaker 2: Let's get into these four rugby topics. Myself and Liam

495
00:24:28,213 --> 00:24:31,733
Speaker 2: Buller have a NATA about them all. Let's change focus

496
00:24:31,813 --> 00:24:34,813
Speaker 2: from the Internationals for a half moment. The highlights of

497
00:24:34,813 --> 00:24:36,973
Speaker 2: the opening ground of the Far Apartment Cup and the NPC.

498
00:24:37,133 --> 00:24:38,533
Speaker 2: What stood out to you, Liam.

499
00:24:38,413 --> 00:24:42,493
Speaker 4: Go oh great victory for title favorites as tipped by

500
00:24:42,533 --> 00:24:44,973
Speaker 4: yours truly well Itton that Ediden park.

501
00:24:44,853 --> 00:24:47,093
Speaker 3: Over the team that I tipped his title favorite talking.

502
00:24:46,893 --> 00:24:50,613
Speaker 4: Yes, come up to the nine and produce a very

503
00:24:50,613 --> 00:24:53,213
Speaker 4: impressive performance. So great to see the Lions get off

504
00:24:53,213 --> 00:24:57,573
Speaker 4: to a good start. I watched Tartanuki Counties as well.

505
00:24:57,973 --> 00:25:02,053
Speaker 4: Josh Jacob resigned with the chief recently. Very impressive performance

506
00:25:02,053 --> 00:25:05,093
Speaker 4: from him and kenninga Hoolo on the wing south end.

507
00:25:05,613 --> 00:25:07,693
Speaker 4: Look it looked like they'd won the comp and then

508
00:25:07,773 --> 00:25:10,893
Speaker 4: the cargo Stag Day was going off with their victory

509
00:25:10,933 --> 00:25:16,533
Speaker 4: over Southlands. Great to hear Steve Divine bag Canterbury's five

510
00:25:16,613 --> 00:25:20,053
Speaker 4: rolling Wall tries in christ Church and and the far

511
00:25:20,133 --> 00:25:22,533
Speaker 4: a Palmer Cup big win from one umber two and

512
00:25:23,653 --> 00:25:26,693
Speaker 4: another title favourite tiped Auckland winning so and Canterbury lost.

513
00:25:26,733 --> 00:25:28,053
Speaker 5: So a great day all round.

514
00:25:29,693 --> 00:25:33,733
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks link, but didn't didn't agree with Steve Divine's

515
00:25:33,733 --> 00:25:35,053
Speaker 2: comments on the rolling War. I thought it was a

516
00:25:35,053 --> 00:25:36,813
Speaker 2: thing of beauty seeing the Canada the Red and Black

517
00:25:36,893 --> 00:25:41,213
Speaker 2: Pack just surge over the tunny fur. I thought a

518
00:25:41,373 --> 00:25:45,213
Speaker 2: very interesting round. Southland winning on Stag Day over Ottiga

519
00:25:45,413 --> 00:25:47,293
Speaker 2: was genuine highlight. Can they back it up and get

520
00:25:47,333 --> 00:25:49,853
Speaker 2: the shield this weekend? It'd be great to see Hawks

521
00:25:49,893 --> 00:25:57,213
Speaker 2: Bay lose the shield. Treated it like rubbish. Couldn't happen

522
00:25:57,253 --> 00:25:59,733
Speaker 2: soon enough. So look if it's the Stags, good luck.

523
00:25:59,613 --> 00:26:00,253
Speaker 3: To them this week.

524
00:26:01,933 --> 00:26:03,453
Speaker 2: And the other thing that stood out to me as well,

525
00:26:03,453 --> 00:26:05,413
Speaker 2: we've got a storm week game Bay of plenty counties

526
00:26:05,453 --> 00:26:08,893
Speaker 2: on Wednesday night, but from a far Apartmer Cup Canterbury

527
00:26:08,893 --> 00:26:11,093
Speaker 2: would be one of the title favorites. Losing to County's

528
00:26:11,093 --> 00:26:16,093
Speaker 2: Monaco and losing relatively comfortable as well. Big big score

529
00:26:16,093 --> 00:26:19,213
Speaker 2: line forty seven to twenty four. The counties Manicer Heap

530
00:26:19,213 --> 00:26:21,493
Speaker 2: applying a bit of pressure on Canterbury. So good start

531
00:26:21,533 --> 00:26:24,933
Speaker 2: for them and not such a great one for Canterbury.

532
00:26:25,693 --> 00:26:28,973
Speaker 2: Topic number two in the final four. Can anyone stop

533
00:26:28,973 --> 00:26:33,093
Speaker 2: the spring Box and the Rugby Championship? No, no, they can't.

534
00:26:33,813 --> 00:26:37,413
Speaker 4: Look, the Springboks are a better team now than they

535
00:26:37,413 --> 00:26:40,373
Speaker 4: were at the World Cup. The inclusion of Tony brown

536
00:26:41,693 --> 00:26:43,933
Speaker 4: sasha their first five that came in at the weekend.

537
00:26:43,933 --> 00:26:45,733
Speaker 4: He shanked his first penalty, which is a bit of

538
00:26:45,733 --> 00:26:48,413
Speaker 4: a shocker, but he brought another dimension to that team

539
00:26:49,053 --> 00:26:52,053
Speaker 4: and look it was completely one way traffic, wasn't it

540
00:26:52,093 --> 00:26:54,933
Speaker 4: And it was a real we're talking about rarely checked

541
00:26:54,933 --> 00:26:59,813
Speaker 4: for the All Blacks. Well, Joe Schmidt put the Wallabies

542
00:26:59,853 --> 00:27:02,613
Speaker 4: back in their place and it shows just where the

543
00:27:02,893 --> 00:27:06,413
Speaker 4: welch you're at as well. After that, very very impressive,

544
00:27:06,533 --> 00:27:11,773
Speaker 4: very imposing, domineering performance from the spring Box. Interesting to

545
00:27:11,773 --> 00:27:13,373
Speaker 4: see where they go with a selection where they get

546
00:27:13,373 --> 00:27:18,173
Speaker 4: a bit experimental. But look that just really shines the

547
00:27:18,173 --> 00:27:20,693
Speaker 4: spotlight on how important this week is for the All

548
00:27:20,733 --> 00:27:24,293
Speaker 4: Blacks because that two test tour of South Africa is

549
00:27:24,333 --> 00:27:26,333
Speaker 4: now looking increasingly daunting.

550
00:27:26,733 --> 00:27:27,973
Speaker 3: It is very impressive.

551
00:27:27,973 --> 00:27:30,413
Speaker 2: I thought the springbox is a great first try with

552
00:27:30,453 --> 00:27:32,293
Speaker 2: the line out split and that we passed back over

553
00:27:32,293 --> 00:27:34,213
Speaker 2: the top. I thought that was innovation that we don't

554
00:27:34,253 --> 00:27:37,173
Speaker 2: often see in this era of test rugby. Credit to

555
00:27:37,213 --> 00:27:39,253
Speaker 2: Russia Rasmus and his coaching team that are willing to

556
00:27:39,253 --> 00:27:44,453
Speaker 2: bring innovation into rugby. Sometimes you go seven to one bench,

557
00:27:44,493 --> 00:27:46,933
Speaker 2: it's a bit ridiculous, but at least they're thinking outside

558
00:27:46,973 --> 00:27:49,973
Speaker 2: the box. And Test rugby has become so homogenized, so

559
00:27:50,773 --> 00:27:53,213
Speaker 2: stale is not the word, but just predictable that when

560
00:27:53,253 --> 00:27:55,493
Speaker 2: you've got a coach challenging the norm, I think you've

561
00:27:55,493 --> 00:27:58,893
Speaker 2: got to embrace that. We saw chesleyn Colby feeding the

562
00:27:58,933 --> 00:28:02,213
Speaker 2: set peace all sorts of little things that he's thinking

563
00:28:02,213 --> 00:28:05,693
Speaker 2: outside the box and trying and find ways and space

564
00:28:05,773 --> 00:28:07,613
Speaker 2: is at such a premium on the park at the moment.

565
00:28:07,653 --> 00:28:10,253
Speaker 2: Defensive system are so good. You've got to think outside

566
00:28:10,293 --> 00:28:12,733
Speaker 2: the box and I think credit to Rassi Erasmus, they

567
00:28:12,733 --> 00:28:13,613
Speaker 2: found a way to do it.

568
00:28:14,293 --> 00:28:14,533
Speaker 3: Yeah.

569
00:28:14,533 --> 00:28:17,493
Speaker 4: Look, and when we talk about you know Wellington being

570
00:28:17,493 --> 00:28:20,373
Speaker 4: a curse for the All Blackstone one in seven and

571
00:28:20,453 --> 00:28:23,093
Speaker 4: the Capitol haven't won there in six years, Well, the

572
00:28:23,133 --> 00:28:27,013
Speaker 4: Springboks have a horrific record in Australia, They've only won

573
00:28:27,093 --> 00:28:30,693
Speaker 4: thirty percent of their tests there. Some Cork Stadium was

574
00:28:30,693 --> 00:28:33,213
Speaker 4: a bit of a graveyard. It's the favorite spot from

575
00:28:33,453 --> 00:28:37,133
Speaker 4: a wallaby's perspective. Well, it almost looked and felt like

576
00:28:37,213 --> 00:28:39,773
Speaker 4: you're in South Africa with the amount of spring Box

577
00:28:39,813 --> 00:28:43,133
Speaker 4: fans and they completely put that to bed. So another

578
00:28:43,253 --> 00:28:46,973
Speaker 4: brick in the wall for a very impressive Springbox team.

579
00:28:47,053 --> 00:28:49,453
Speaker 2: Off to Perth this week as well, which is basically

580
00:28:49,493 --> 00:28:51,693
Speaker 2: South Africa in New Zealand.

581
00:28:51,693 --> 00:28:53,573
Speaker 3: A lot of New Zealander and South Africans there.

582
00:28:53,453 --> 00:28:54,693
Speaker 5: But the north shore of Auckland.

583
00:28:54,773 --> 00:28:56,373
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, so they'll get a good crowd I'm

584
00:28:56,373 --> 00:28:59,093
Speaker 2: sure at Perth Stadium. Topic three, what was the deal

585
00:28:59,093 --> 00:29:00,693
Speaker 2: with the crowd in Wellings? And I know people were

586
00:29:00,733 --> 00:29:04,613
Speaker 2: surprised by that. Look for me, I don't think it

587
00:29:04,653 --> 00:29:07,573
Speaker 2: was necessarily a surprise. It wasn't sold out. It does

588
00:29:07,693 --> 00:29:10,933
Speaker 2: reflect that there are some big challenges out there in

589
00:29:11,013 --> 00:29:14,133
Speaker 2: the rugby marketplace, but also the cost of living, you know,

590
00:29:14,213 --> 00:29:17,533
Speaker 2: Wellington with the big public sector doing it tough at

591
00:29:17,573 --> 00:29:21,173
Speaker 2: the moment and when I guess on the surface of it,

592
00:29:21,173 --> 00:29:24,333
Speaker 2: it is disrespectful to Argentina but there is that historic

593
00:29:24,413 --> 00:29:27,493
Speaker 2: rivalry with Australia. If you are a family that can go,

594
00:29:27,613 --> 00:29:29,373
Speaker 2: we can afford to go to one test this year,

595
00:29:29,413 --> 00:29:31,373
Speaker 2: which one do you go to? You peck Australia even

596
00:29:31,373 --> 00:29:34,253
Speaker 2: though they have not won in New Zealand saw for

597
00:29:34,253 --> 00:29:36,893
Speaker 2: such a long time. But there's just that historic thing

598
00:29:36,933 --> 00:29:39,373
Speaker 2: that you go with the Wallabies rather than Argentina. Maybe

599
00:29:39,373 --> 00:29:42,093
Speaker 2: results like Saturday Night will help do it, but there's

600
00:29:42,133 --> 00:29:45,253
Speaker 2: so many factors at play, the job losses in Wellington,

601
00:29:46,293 --> 00:29:48,213
Speaker 2: the rugby market as a whole, I don't know that

602
00:29:48,253 --> 00:29:51,053
Speaker 2: it can sustain two tests in a city outside of Auckland.

603
00:29:52,293 --> 00:29:54,653
Speaker 2: And also it's very very hard to get people to

604
00:29:54,733 --> 00:29:58,253
Speaker 2: leave the house in general, and they're battling to try

605
00:29:58,293 --> 00:30:00,293
Speaker 2: and present Argentina as a draw card. As I say,

606
00:30:00,413 --> 00:30:03,533
Speaker 2: results like Saturday Night might help that for Eden Park

607
00:30:03,573 --> 00:30:05,853
Speaker 2: this weekend, but also for beyond in future seasons.

608
00:30:06,293 --> 00:30:08,573
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think you make some good points here about

609
00:30:08,573 --> 00:30:10,973
Speaker 4: the economic realities that we're living in right now.

610
00:30:11,013 --> 00:30:12,053
Speaker 5: You can't get away from that.

611
00:30:12,093 --> 00:30:16,373
Speaker 4: There's you know, people genuinely struggling, but in saying that

612
00:30:17,693 --> 00:30:19,853
Speaker 4: they were hawking off tickets for as low as fifty

613
00:30:19,853 --> 00:30:23,293
Speaker 4: bucks to the stems so cut price prices, you know

614
00:30:23,373 --> 00:30:26,253
Speaker 4: midweek there I think there were ten thousand tickets still

615
00:30:26,773 --> 00:30:31,453
Speaker 4: available on the Thursday, and it does speak to I

616
00:30:31,493 --> 00:30:35,013
Speaker 4: think an apathy and probably an arrogance among all black

617
00:30:35,013 --> 00:30:38,053
Speaker 4: fans when it comes to Argentina, who are a tough cell.

618
00:30:38,173 --> 00:30:42,693
Speaker 4: And I think New Zealand Rugby failed mister trick in

619
00:30:42,733 --> 00:30:46,213
Speaker 4: this regard. Like you say two Cess and Wellington, they

620
00:30:46,213 --> 00:30:53,013
Speaker 4: should have taken this game to Napier, Nelson, Hamilton, christ

621
00:30:53,053 --> 00:30:58,573
Speaker 4: Church somewhere else because the rally of the Pumas there

622
00:30:58,573 --> 00:31:01,573
Speaker 4: are a tough cell and they always have been perhaps

623
00:31:01,653 --> 00:31:04,413
Speaker 4: always will be unless they keep winning like this. And

624
00:31:04,853 --> 00:31:06,693
Speaker 4: Eden Park this week will not be sold out for

625
00:31:06,733 --> 00:31:10,493
Speaker 4: the same reason. And I think they've sold over twenty

626
00:31:10,493 --> 00:31:12,653
Speaker 4: five thousand, so they will get a better crowd. But

627
00:31:12,733 --> 00:31:15,053
Speaker 4: you get twenty five thirty thousand to eaton Park and

628
00:31:15,093 --> 00:31:18,773
Speaker 4: it still looks pretty average from a TV perspective. So

629
00:31:19,693 --> 00:31:22,933
Speaker 4: those are bad optics for a normal extent. It's the optics,

630
00:31:22,973 --> 00:31:25,293
Speaker 4: isn't it, Because what do they get in the end?

631
00:31:25,293 --> 00:31:29,493
Speaker 4: Twenty five thousand for look, that's probably they get. There's

632
00:31:29,493 --> 00:31:31,653
Speaker 4: a better crowd than they'd get in sand Napier or Nelson.

633
00:31:31,733 --> 00:31:33,693
Speaker 4: Maybe not so much at Hamilton, which will probably about

634
00:31:33,733 --> 00:31:36,373
Speaker 4: exactly what they get if they sold it out into Hamilton,

635
00:31:36,453 --> 00:31:37,453
Speaker 4: better than christ Church.

636
00:31:37,533 --> 00:31:39,813
Speaker 2: But it's the optics. It's the empty state seats that

637
00:31:39,893 --> 00:31:43,093
Speaker 2: people look at. It doesn't matter that they've actually probably

638
00:31:43,133 --> 00:31:45,853
Speaker 2: got more tickets and bums through the abums on seats

639
00:31:46,133 --> 00:31:46,853
Speaker 2: than those venues.

640
00:31:46,893 --> 00:31:49,093
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think they just kind of got it wrong.

641
00:31:49,133 --> 00:31:51,693
Speaker 2: Now, I think I don't know how with a venue

642
00:31:51,733 --> 00:31:54,133
Speaker 2: availability played a role into this, but you could probably

643
00:31:54,133 --> 00:31:57,293
Speaker 2: go there's a more of an except population with England.

644
00:31:57,373 --> 00:31:59,293
Speaker 2: You might have had one of those England tests in Wellington,

645
00:31:59,573 --> 00:32:01,853
Speaker 2: you played Argentina and Dunedin and just changed it up

646
00:32:01,893 --> 00:32:04,333
Speaker 2: that way. Now I don't know venue availability, but there

647
00:32:04,333 --> 00:32:07,653
Speaker 2: are ways you could sort of change things around to

648
00:32:07,693 --> 00:32:08,653
Speaker 2: make it look a bit better.

649
00:32:08,973 --> 00:32:10,573
Speaker 5: Certainly a rethink needed in the future.

650
00:32:11,013 --> 00:32:14,453
Speaker 2: Speaking of rethink, you read it a topic four, read

651
00:32:14,573 --> 00:32:18,133
Speaker 2: a recall or start calling Twickenham Alian Stadium.

652
00:32:18,973 --> 00:32:20,253
Speaker 5: No, that's a hard note for me.

653
00:32:21,333 --> 00:32:24,733
Speaker 4: It's one of my favorite rugby venues and I suspect

654
00:32:25,613 --> 00:32:28,693
Speaker 4: no one outside the corporate world will be calling it's

655
00:32:29,173 --> 00:32:33,413
Speaker 4: what Alian's Twickenham. I think it will be Twickenham until

656
00:32:33,813 --> 00:32:34,573
Speaker 4: the day I die.

657
00:32:35,133 --> 00:32:37,693
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's hard, it's a it's a you know,

658
00:32:38,573 --> 00:32:41,893
Speaker 2: it just doesn't feel right, doesn't Twickenham the amount of

659
00:32:42,093 --> 00:32:43,573
Speaker 2: they get through the gates at ticking'am, But it shows

660
00:32:43,613 --> 00:32:46,733
Speaker 2: that they're on financial straits that they have to hock off,

661
00:32:46,933 --> 00:32:49,053
Speaker 2: you know, Twickenham they are looking to maybe even sell

662
00:32:49,133 --> 00:32:51,773
Speaker 2: the whole thing as a joint last year I think

663
00:32:51,813 --> 00:32:54,733
Speaker 2: it was, but then and move into Wimbley. They decided

664
00:32:54,773 --> 00:32:58,253
Speaker 2: against that in the end, but shows that even you know,

665
00:32:58,333 --> 00:33:01,453
Speaker 2: the r if You are not immune to some of

666
00:33:01,533 --> 00:33:04,133
Speaker 2: these financial issues presented in our game at the moment.

667
00:33:05,013 --> 00:33:07,173
Speaker 2: And they're going with Alion Stadium. You're right, no one's

668
00:33:07,213 --> 00:33:09,213
Speaker 2: going to call it that outside of Alians and the

669
00:33:09,453 --> 00:33:11,213
Speaker 2: rif You. But it just does show you some of

670
00:33:11,253 --> 00:33:13,653
Speaker 2: the issues that they have getting money through the gate.

671
00:33:13,693 --> 00:33:18,093
Speaker 2: They've turned down the nation's championship proposal from Katza. It's

672
00:33:18,133 --> 00:33:21,373
Speaker 2: funny because Alians doesn't have a clean corporate history themselves,

673
00:33:21,413 --> 00:33:22,893
Speaker 2: but it seem there's a lot better to get the

674
00:33:22,933 --> 00:33:24,773
Speaker 2: money in that way then go to Doha.

675
00:33:25,493 --> 00:33:27,093
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think when you've got a big venue

676
00:33:27,213 --> 00:33:30,413
Speaker 4: like that, there are realities in terms of upkeep ticking

677
00:33:30,453 --> 00:33:33,133
Speaker 4: them has been around forever in a day, so I'm

678
00:33:33,173 --> 00:33:36,693
Speaker 4: sure it needs refurbishments and all those sorts of things.

679
00:33:37,613 --> 00:33:41,693
Speaker 4: Forsyth Bar Internedin just had or as in the process

680
00:33:41,813 --> 00:33:45,413
Speaker 4: of going through a big makeover, which is costly but

681
00:33:45,613 --> 00:33:48,533
Speaker 4: needs to be done to attract players and deliver the

682
00:33:48,613 --> 00:33:51,453
Speaker 4: sort of standards the All Blacks are out and the

683
00:33:51,853 --> 00:33:54,733
Speaker 4: n z CIS and Upper Heart which is not cheap,

684
00:33:55,093 --> 00:34:00,293
Speaker 4: but those are the sort of level of professionalism facilities

685
00:34:00,373 --> 00:34:03,413
Speaker 4: that that players demand these days. But yeah, in terms

686
00:34:03,413 --> 00:34:07,573
Speaker 4: of naming rights, I will always call Mount Smart Mount Smart,

687
00:34:07,653 --> 00:34:12,613
Speaker 4: not go Meetia, you know, call it Ericson, Ericson. So yeah,

688
00:34:13,293 --> 00:34:16,293
Speaker 4: in a sense, it's easy money, but you mess with

689
00:34:16,573 --> 00:34:20,453
Speaker 4: tradition in a sport like a conservative sport like rugby

690
00:34:20,493 --> 00:34:23,213
Speaker 4: at your peril to a degree. And it does speak

691
00:34:23,253 --> 00:34:25,893
Speaker 4: to the fact that there are if you were one

692
00:34:25,973 --> 00:34:28,733
Speaker 4: of those six nations that were supportive of taking the

693
00:34:28,773 --> 00:34:32,973
Speaker 4: money and cutter and the financial pain across the world game.

694
00:34:33,373 --> 00:34:36,573
Speaker 3: Absolutely and look, Alice Park has had name changed.

695
00:34:36,573 --> 00:34:38,613
Speaker 2: I think it was cock Kola for a bit, Emerancy

696
00:34:38,613 --> 00:34:40,453
Speaker 2: Aliones At the moment, I think it's still the naming

697
00:34:40,533 --> 00:34:43,013
Speaker 2: right spots sponsor, but everyone calls it Alice Park and

698
00:34:44,453 --> 00:34:46,413
Speaker 2: I come back as the kid Lancaster part being changed

699
00:34:46,453 --> 00:34:48,413
Speaker 2: to Jade Stadium. I think people started calling at Jade

700
00:34:48,413 --> 00:34:50,213
Speaker 2: Stadium after a while, but it's you know, those habits

701
00:34:50,253 --> 00:34:51,973
Speaker 2: are hard to kill, and especially when an a chonic

702
00:34:52,133 --> 00:34:54,213
Speaker 2: name of a stadium like it took in them. I

703
00:34:54,293 --> 00:34:55,253
Speaker 2: just don't see it happening.

704
00:34:55,893 --> 00:34:58,053
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, we do live in the professional world.

705
00:34:58,253 --> 00:35:01,773
Speaker 4: There was a lot of controversy around the All Blacks

706
00:35:01,813 --> 00:35:07,093
Speaker 4: putting veryous sponsorship names and across their jerseys, but that's

707
00:35:08,653 --> 00:35:11,893
Speaker 4: the reality of funding the sport as well as a

708
00:35:11,973 --> 00:35:17,933
Speaker 4: big behemoth of business that these are commercial requirements, but

709
00:35:18,973 --> 00:35:20,293
Speaker 4: they come at a cost to a degree.

710
00:35:20,533 --> 00:35:23,373
Speaker 2: Speaking of commercial requirements, always grateful for the support of

711
00:35:24,093 --> 00:35:26,493
Speaker 2: solutions elevating you and your business to a higher level

712
00:35:26,653 --> 00:35:28,773
Speaker 2: seamless and you're very.

713
00:35:28,733 --> 00:35:32,493
Speaker 4: Good at that and very welcoming of anyone else that

714
00:35:32,573 --> 00:35:35,613
Speaker 4: wants to get on board. But particularly cold and flu

715
00:35:35,693 --> 00:35:38,413
Speaker 4: at this time of year, tomato juice or.

716
00:35:40,133 --> 00:35:41,573
Speaker 5: Maybe a hot tidy you might do the trick.

717
00:35:41,693 --> 00:35:44,093
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're open to all offers. I'm sure we can

718
00:35:44,453 --> 00:35:47,253
Speaker 2: carve out something as well. Thanks to Last and bar

719
00:35:47,293 --> 00:35:50,133
Speaker 2: as English this has been Rugby Direct. We will see

720
00:35:50,213 --> 00:35:53,293
Speaker 2: you next week for another edition of Rugby Direct.

721
00:35:57,773 --> 00:36:00,333
Speaker 1: For more from news talks, there'd be listen live on

722
00:36:00,493 --> 00:36:03,413
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

723
00:36:03,533 --> 00:36:06,053
Speaker 1: you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio