1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: So back home. The bootcamp pilot has officially ended. Eight

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,240
Speaker 1: out of the twelve participants finished the program. Orrongataboiki has

3
00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,520
Speaker 1: called the program a success, but amidst seven of them,

4
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,240
Speaker 1: seven of the participants did reoffend to a threshold that

5
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: required them to return to the residents for a time.

6
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,400
Speaker 1: Ian Chapman is the Deputy Chief Executive of Youth Justice

7
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: Services at ot han Hi.

8
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:19,960
Speaker 2: Hey, how are you.

9
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:21,760
Speaker 1: I'm well, thank you. So why do we think it's

10
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,960
Speaker 1: a success, So.

11
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,920
Speaker 2: In the context of these particular young men's lives, So

12
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 2: it's an individual thing where we're looking at the life cycle,

13
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,360
Speaker 2: what was leading up to the residential stay in the

14
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,559
Speaker 2: MSA In the first place, we're talking about ten of

15
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 2: the most prolific young offenders in the country were involved

16
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,160
Speaker 2: in this program and often had multiple residential stays throughout

17
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,560
Speaker 2: the early teams up and too the point of the MSA.

18
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,840
Speaker 2: Following that, what we've seen as a reduction in severity

19
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,279
Speaker 2: of offending. We've seen an increased length of time out

20
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,520
Speaker 2: in the community, and in a couple of occasions, we've

21
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,720
Speaker 2: seen kids completely turn their lives around. So on an

22
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,920
Speaker 2: individual basis, there's absolutely some successes.

23
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,319
Speaker 1: Okay, so you think there are two kids who have changed,

24
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 1: they're not going to do this stuff anymore.

25
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean I can never predict into the future,

26
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,040
Speaker 2: but what we're seeing now one young man has effectively

27
00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,199
Speaker 2: shunned his friend group that that negative influence has turned

28
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,400
Speaker 2: to sports. Sports been a common factor in a couple

29
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,440
Speaker 2: of kids' lives. We are seeing him wanting to all

30
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 2: have his tattoos removed, which is quite a remarkable thing

31
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 2: for a kid that age. It's sort of a real

32
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,680
Speaker 2: signal that he's wanting to turn his life around and

33
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 2: remove that stigma. Yeah. So the reality is is that

34
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,440
Speaker 2: we probably still have a long way to go, but

35
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,800
Speaker 2: we are seeing really good science.

36
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: And what about the other one?

37
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,560
Speaker 2: So the other kids, look, there are no.

38
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,640
Speaker 1: No, no, Sorry you said that there were two successful kids.

39
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 1: So one one's taken up sport wants to get his

40
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 1: tats off. What about the other one?

41
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, the other one likewise sports. So he's just been

42
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,200
Speaker 2: selected for a regional team and has chosen sport. Again,

43
00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,120
Speaker 2: that's no main feat for any kid. So you know,

44
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 2: sporting is a bit of a common threat. It's certainly

45
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,120
Speaker 2: something that we're going to lean on for any future iteration.

46
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 1: Are you going to I mean the important thing here

47
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,119
Speaker 1: for these guys, because they get drawn so easily, Kids

48
00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 1: get drawn so easily back into the as you say,

49
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 1: the friendship group and the famili's misbehavior and stuff. Do

50
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 1: you guys continue to be in their lives?

51
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent, where As these kids are aging

52
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,200
Speaker 2: out so that you know, our legal jurisdiction over them,

53
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 2: if you like, expires as they transition into adulthood. But

54
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,679
Speaker 2: we don't leave it there. We've got a variety of

55
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,200
Speaker 2: people both within our organization, our NGOs, our partner agencies,

56
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 2: who have got a vested interest in this and we

57
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 2: want to make sure that they can. They are set

58
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 2: up to succeed. They'll still have social workers, they'll still

59
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,480
Speaker 2: have contact with the with their mentors. But then also

60
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,120
Speaker 2: it's the wider family groups. So we've got a bunch

61
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 2: of parents who sat across these kids who are now

62
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,440
Speaker 2: joined up, engaging with us and each other as a

63
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,079
Speaker 2: parental group, taking parental you know, horses and all that

64
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,840
Speaker 2: solonggoing along with the wider family. This is the other

65
00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,840
Speaker 2: key thing, right, So if you're taking a purely preventative angle,

66
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,679
Speaker 2: you've got kids who are siblings. The are in big families,

67
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 2: and it's the younger siblings looking up at these old

68
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:09,880
Speaker 2: ones through in the NSA, and we're looking to the

69
00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,799
Speaker 2: end of the future to say, actually, there's different parts

70
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,440
Speaker 2: that we can take. So yeah, there's a much broader

71
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,240
Speaker 2: picture than just these kids in this program.

72
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,600
Speaker 1: Ian tell me this, not as a public servant working

73
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: to this government, but as a human. Do you think

74
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,000
Speaker 1: we should keep running these programs?

75
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, look to completely honest whither, I absolutely do. I'm

76
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,920
Speaker 2: a parent. I've got a a you know, seventeen year

77
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:38,240
Speaker 2: old son. What we're offering these kids in residents. You know,

78
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 2: thankfully my son isn't in the same circumstance, but if

79
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 2: he was, i'd really actually, I would hope that as

80
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 2: a country, we can come together and recognize that there

81
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 2: is a this is the last stop shop for these

82
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 2: kids before they spend a life in corrections. You know,

83
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,040
Speaker 2: this really is at that point agen for them to

84
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 2: even get into residents in the first place. They really

85
00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 2: are at that final stage before they pushed through into

86
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 2: the corrections. You know, that's a life in jail, in

87
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 2: and out of jail. We want to cut that. So, yeah, absolutely,

88
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 2: we want to make sure that as a country, as

89
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 2: New Zealand an that we're actually really pulling up the

90
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 2: stops when it comes to the interventions for these kids.

91
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 2: So you know, the trauma that they've been through the

92
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,000
Speaker 2: reality is that this is stuff that you or I

93
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,920
Speaker 2: and most of the public we're never even fathom. So yeah,

94
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 2: I absolutely do think that there's a case for this

95
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 2: in the future.

96
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:27,720
Speaker 1: Ian, Thanks very much for your answer. I appreciate it.

97
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 1: Ian Chapman, Deputy Chief Executive Youth Justice Services at OT.

98
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

99
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,440
Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

100
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,240
Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio