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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news talks it B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of the now, the Leyton

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Speaker 1: Smith Podcast powered by news talks it B.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to podcasts two eighty four for May fourteen, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five. Deceits, corruption, blackmail, threats, cowardice, dismissal, just a

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Speaker 2: few words to indicate how the world works. One such

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Speaker 2: example concerns doctor Pierre Corey, who was in the thick

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Speaker 2: of it for four years or longer, but still not

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Speaker 2: entirely free of it. I quote you a few lines

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Speaker 2: from his book The War on iver Mecdon. I soon

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Speaker 2: discovered that the corruption and deceit was hardly limited to

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Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical space. The entire medical industrial complex, including our

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Speaker 2: governmental and international regulatory agencies, big farmer, public and private

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Speaker 2: healthcare systems and hospital networks, medical schools and their journals

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Speaker 2: had been collectively captured. Now to say that per Cory

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Speaker 2: is a generous man is an understatement. He is very

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Speaker 2: generous with his time. His attitude to just about everything

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Speaker 2: is positive and giving. Is a very good speaker, and

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Speaker 2: we shall talk with him soon, but just to exemplify

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Speaker 2: the fact that he is not on his own with

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Speaker 2: what he has been through, and I'm sure most people

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Speaker 2: listening will be familiar with it in some way, but

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Speaker 2: to show that there are others who are involved in

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Speaker 2: trying to improve the world, I suppose let me refer

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Speaker 2: to Mary and Demasi, an Australian science writer. She was

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Speaker 2: with ABC Radio and Sydney or maybe television or maybe both,

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Speaker 2: but she was for a considerable period of time, but

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Speaker 2: she went independent and I've referenced to her be for

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Speaker 2: she doesn't do interviews because she doesn't want to who

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Speaker 2: she wants to retain her independence. I think is the

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Speaker 2: way that she put it to me. Anyway, Merk rigged

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Speaker 2: Gardasil trials to conceal Harm's court documents reveal and this

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Speaker 2: was published by her just a few days ago. In

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Speaker 2: what would become one of the most explosive pharmaceutical lawsuits

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Speaker 2: in US history, Roby versus Merk, centered on the Gardasil

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Speaker 2: HPV vaccine and is set to resume in Los Angeles

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Speaker 2: in September of this year. At the core of the

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Speaker 2: case are allegations that Merk misrepresented the safety profile of Gardasil,

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Speaker 2: allegations now supported by powerful evidence. A newly unsealed expert

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Speaker 2: report from Danish physician and world renowned research methodologist doctor

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Speaker 2: Peter C. Gooshki, Well that's my interpretation, submitted as part

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Speaker 2: of the pre trial motion, underpins the claims against Merk.

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Speaker 2: His three hundred and fifty page forensic analysis, now part

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Speaker 2: of the official court record, lays bare a chilling narrative

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Speaker 2: of clinical trial rigging, regulatory failure, and global deception. According

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Speaker 2: to Weergotski, Merk distorted its clinical trial data so thoroughly

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Speaker 2: that the results were rendered scientifically meaningless. Gotshki's assessment is

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Speaker 2: stark and unequivocal. The Mirk sponsored trials cannot be used

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Speaker 2: to properly assess the harms of the vaccines, he writes,

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Speaker 2: adding that the company squandered the opportunity to legitimately study

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Speaker 2: the safety of Gardasil. After examining one hundred and twelve

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Speaker 2: thousand pages of regulatory documents, Gotshki concluded that Mirk manipulated

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Speaker 2: its data to such an extent that it would be difficult,

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Speaker 2: if not impossible, for any independent scientist or even government

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Speaker 2: regulators to accurately assess the vaccines harm. It now raises

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Speaker 2: the fundamental question, were millions of adolescents misled into consenting

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Speaker 2: to a vaccine whose true safety risks were deliberately obscured.

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Speaker 2: Now there is more to the article, but it's not

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Speaker 2: the point of today's podcast. But that's just one example.

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Speaker 2: Here's a second, The Crisis of Unreliable Science, a pharmacologist

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Speaker 2: call for radical reform. Each year, biomedical scientists pump out

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Speaker 2: about a million new papers, but a troubling truth hides

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Speaker 2: in plain sight. Much of this work cannot be replicated.

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Speaker 2: Far from a small glitch, this is a colossal crisis,

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Speaker 2: squandering billions, eroding faith in science, and stalling genuine breakthroughs.

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Speaker 2: In an interview with Chemical and Engineering News, pharmacologist Zaba Zavo,

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Speaker 2: a professor at the University of Freiburg, Switzerland, confronts this

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Speaker 2: chaos head on previewing his recently published book Unreliable. His

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Speaker 2: verdict the scientific system is fractured beyond repair, and band

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Speaker 2: aid fixes won't cut it. Nothing short of a revolution

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Speaker 2: will do. But there is more, and it goes back

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Speaker 2: a little further, just to show that there's nothing really

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Speaker 2: new about from the book Betrayers of Truth, which I

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Speaker 2: think is about fifty years old now or thereabouts. Fraud

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Speaker 2: and de Seit in the Halls of Science by William

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Speaker 2: Broad and Nicholas Wade, and chapter two is deceit in history.

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Speaker 2: Through experimental science, we have been able to learn all

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Speaker 2: these facts about the natural world, triumphing over darkness and ignorance,

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Speaker 2: to classify the stars and to estimate their masses, composition distances,

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Speaker 2: and velocities, to classify living species, and to unravel their

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Speaker 2: genetic relations. These great accomplishments of experimental science were achieved

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Speaker 2: by men who had in common only a few things.

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Speaker 2: They were honest and actually made the observations they recorded,

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Speaker 2: and they published the results of their work in a

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Speaker 2: form permitting others to duplicate the experiment or observation. So

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Speaker 2: says the Berkeley Physics Course, an influential text that has

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Speaker 2: been used across the United States to impress cottage students

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Speaker 2: with both the substance and tradition of modern physics. As

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Speaker 2: with non scientific systems. As with non scientific systems of belief, however,

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Speaker 2: the elements insisted on most strongly are often those with

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Speaker 2: the least factual reliability. The great scientists of the past

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Speaker 2: were not all so honest, and they did not always

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Speaker 2: obtain the experimental results they reported. Claudius Ptolemy, known as

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Speaker 2: the greatest astronomer of antiquity, did most of his observing

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Speaker 2: not at night on the coast of Egypt, but during

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Speaker 2: the day in the great Library of Alexandria, where he

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Speaker 2: appropriated the work of a Greek astronomer and proceeded to

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Speaker 2: call it his own. There's more, but we'll finish with

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Speaker 2: the last, and obviously the most recent. The American physicist

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Speaker 2: Robert Millikan won the Nobel Prize for being the first

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Speaker 2: to measure the electric charge of an electron. But Millican

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Speaker 2: extensively misrepresented his work in order to make his experimental

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Speaker 2: results seem more convincing than was in fact the case.

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Speaker 2: So there's some examples of the fact that we might

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Speaker 2: be believing things that aren't true even in this day

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Speaker 2: and age. In fact, I think it's fair to say

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Speaker 2: even more in this day and age. However, that is

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Speaker 2: not the case. I believe with doctor Pierre Cory. The

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Speaker 2: problem with his issues lies with the opposition to what

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Speaker 2: he has produced. I believe that they're the ones with

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Speaker 2: the problems and if anybody from the medical profession or

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Speaker 2: the scientific world has different opinions that they feel strongly

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Speaker 2: about that, I'd love to hear from you with full

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Speaker 2: respect and hear what you have to say and where

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Speaker 2: you disagree with what you're about to hear, I think

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Speaker 2: that that would be a fine thing. Latent at Newstalks

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Speaker 2: ADB dot co dot Nz we'll hear from doctor Corey in.

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Speaker 3: Just a moment.

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Speaker 2: Buccolan is a natural oral vaccine in a tablet form

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Speaker 2: called Bacterial Nice Safe. It'll boost your natural protection against

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Speaker 2: bacterial infections in your chest and throat. A three day

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Speaker 2: course of seven Bucklan tablets will help your body build

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Speaker 2: up to three months of immunity against bugs which cause

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Speaker 2: bacterial cold symptoms. So who can take buccolan well, the

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Speaker 2: whole family from two years of age and upwards. A

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Speaker 2: course of Bucclan tablets offers cost effective and safe protection

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Speaker 2: from colds and chills. Protection becomes effective a few days

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Speaker 2: after you take buccolan and lasts for to three months

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Speaker 2: following the three day course. Buccolan can be taken throughout

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Speaker 2: the cold season, over winter, or all the year round.

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Speaker 2: And remember buckelan is not intended as an alternative to

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Speaker 2: influenza vaccination, but may be used along with the flu

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Speaker 2: vaccination for added protection. And keep in mind that millions

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Speaker 2: of doses have been taken by Kiwis for over fifty years.

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Speaker 2: Only available from your pharmacist. Always read the label and

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Speaker 2: users directed, and see your doctor if systems persist. Farmer Broker, Auckland,

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Speaker 2: Layton Smith. Ivermectin is a dirty word in the media.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't work. It's a deadly horse steawormer, prescribed and

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Speaker 2: promoted as you'll be called a right wing quack and

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Speaker 2: be banned from social media or lose your license to

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Speaker 2: practice medicine. And yet entire countries wiped out the virus

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Speaker 2: with it, and more than ninety five studies now show

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Speaker 2: it to be unequivocally effective in preventing and treating COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Ask you isulved this question? If it didn't work, why was

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Speaker 2: there a coordinated global campaign to cancel it? What is

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Speaker 2: the truth about this decades old Nobel Prize winning medication. Now,

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Speaker 2: the words I've just quoted are from the inside cover

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Speaker 2: of the book The War on Ivermectin. It was published

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, and it was sold all over

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Speaker 2: the world. To say that it's worth reading is an

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Speaker 2: understatement of major proportion. But I had trouble finding a copy,

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Speaker 2: at least one that I could buy immediately. I only

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Speaker 2: had a few days notice. Subtitled The Medicine that Saved

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Speaker 2: millions and could have entered the pandemic, its author is

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Speaker 2: as you'll discover a fascinating individual, doctor per Corey. It's

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Speaker 2: a pleasure to finally get to talk with.

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Speaker 3: You, Leaton. My pleasure as well. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We're doing this between golf games.

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Speaker 3: I gather exactly I'm on vac but.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to make time for you. I think it's

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Speaker 4: an important conversation.

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Speaker 2: Always, well, you certainly do your fair share of media,

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Speaker 2: so so I want to start just with we'll jump

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Speaker 2: around a little bit. I actually we'll jump around a lot.

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Speaker 2: It's my podcast. But yeah, I want to start with

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Speaker 2: a little experience that you had because this this intrigued

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Speaker 2: me with a political legend, and this comes under the

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Speaker 2: heating right at the right near the beginning of the book,

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Speaker 2: where you are talking about old Pierre as opposed to

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Speaker 2: New Pierre. But old Pierre was a fascinating character before

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Speaker 2: he changed. So who was old Pierre?

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Speaker 3: Oh boy? Yeah, So that was that was the opening

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Speaker 3: of my book.

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Speaker 4: Well really described, you know, my kind of awakening in

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Speaker 4: COVID and so compared to what I believed and what

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Speaker 4: I thought were was the truth to what I came

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Speaker 4: to believe. Uh, it created an all in a new Pier.

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Speaker 4: So the old Pierre, as I describe it, the old

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Speaker 4: Pierre read the New York Times and thought it was

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Speaker 4: the arbiter of truth.

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Speaker 3: And if you really wanted to know.

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Speaker 4: What was going on, you read the New York Times

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Speaker 4: and you would substitute whatever your main major daily newspaper

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Speaker 4: is in New Zealand. But that's the quote unquote paper

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Speaker 4: of record in the United States. I read that since

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Speaker 4: I was six. I believed in the high impact medical journals.

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Speaker 4: I thought only the best science and scientists published there.

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Speaker 4: I believed in our healthcare public health agencies. I thought

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Speaker 4: only the best science and scientists would form those opinions

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Speaker 4: and give that kind of guidance I trusted. I don't

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Speaker 4: think I really questioned mainstream media. I kind of felt

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Speaker 4: like they're just reporting on stories, and that's what was

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Speaker 4: going on, and I was just very basically trusting in

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Speaker 4: the institutions of society, and that was a world that

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Speaker 4: I lived in, and I thought every thing was I

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Speaker 4: don't want to say normal, but I just that was

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Speaker 4: my frame of reference for the world I lived in.

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Speaker 3: And lady, you want to ask me what the new

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Speaker 3: Pierre is.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's put it. Let's put it this way. The

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Speaker 2: title of the book is The War on Either Migdon,

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Speaker 2: and it just came to me as I was reading,

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Speaker 2: and I thought a good subtitle would be The Education

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Speaker 2: of Pierre Corey, Yes, because.

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Speaker 3: Because it really does describe a journey for sure.

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Speaker 2: So what about the new peer?

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Speaker 4: I mean, the new Pierre has come to learn that

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Speaker 4: what the old Pierre believed is simply not true. And

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Speaker 4: I hate going like dark or negative thoughts so quickly.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the new Pierre has come to realize that

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Speaker 4: the old Pierre's impressions and perceptions of the world were

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Speaker 4: simply not based in fact.

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Speaker 3: They were based in perception.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I became very inspired and challenge by COVID,

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Speaker 4: and from the get go, before even the hit us shores,

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Speaker 4: me and my colleagues were.

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Speaker 3: Starting to study look at this.

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Speaker 4: You know, I was a pulmonary and critical care physician,

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Speaker 4: you know, very high up in academia in the United States.

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Speaker 4: I was the chief of the Critical care service as

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Speaker 4: well as the director of the ICU at a major

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Speaker 4: academic medical center here at the University of Wisconsin, huge

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Speaker 4: research funded institution, and so I was in charge of

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Speaker 4: our initial COVID response. And I was doing that while

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Speaker 4: studying the disease that was again it was a pulmonary

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Speaker 4: and critical care disease that was coming at us. And

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Speaker 4: that began, you know, three or four or five years

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Speaker 4: now of deep study, talking to doctors, reading pre prints,

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Speaker 4: you know, reading everything I could, and then also just

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Speaker 4: keenly observing various therapies, how the variants were changing, how

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Speaker 4: people became ill, because it wasn't you know, it's a

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Speaker 4: similar disease, but the variants did change and things became

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Speaker 4: more difficult than less difficult.

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Speaker 3: Does various change.

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Speaker 4: And so I've been immersed in the science of COVID

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Speaker 4: and particularly the ivermactin, you know, so I became I

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Speaker 4: would consider myself one of the clinical experts in the

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Speaker 4: use of ivermactin in.

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Speaker 3: COVID, and so I knew the truth about ivermactin.

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Speaker 2: How did that end into your life?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So what happened was is when I first bonded

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Speaker 4: with my colleague Paul Marris, so he and I were

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Speaker 4: good friends. We shared a lot of research into IVY

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Speaker 4: vitamin C, so we'd been friendly and interacted, and he's

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Speaker 4: a very prominent physician, so he was the most published

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Speaker 4: practicing critical care medicine doctor in the history of our specialties,

249
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Speaker 4: very very famous, well known. He and I become friends

250
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Speaker 4: because we did neutral research on a topic, and so

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Speaker 4: people reached out to him because the governments were not

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Speaker 4: coming up with treatment protocols.

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Speaker 3: They were just saying like stay.

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Speaker 4: Home until your lips turned blue when you got to

255
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Speaker 4: the hospital. They didn't do anything but like oxygen and

256
00:16:07,973 --> 00:16:11,613
Speaker 4: mentally and Thailand all orgacito minifin. I mean, it was

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Speaker 4: absolutely outrageous that no one was trying to treat this disease.

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Speaker 4: And there are all these arguments, there's no studies to

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Speaker 4: show you how to treat it, so basically do nothing.

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Speaker 4: It was just brazenly absurd reasoning. And so we started

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Speaker 4: to study various therapies and we came up with a

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00:16:28,173 --> 00:16:32,933
Speaker 4: hospital protocol and so some people, prominent people asked Paul

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Speaker 4: to form a group to put out protocols. So we

264
00:16:36,893 --> 00:16:41,253
Speaker 4: formed a nonprofit organization called the FLCCC Alliance, and we

265
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Speaker 4: started to post protocols first in the hospital. We did

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Speaker 4: not have an early treatment protocol for another six months.

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Speaker 3: But what Paul did was very clever.

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Speaker 4: We were following the data on various therapeutics you could

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Speaker 4: use as now patient, and we'd had this chart and

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00:16:57,293 --> 00:16:59,773
Speaker 4: he would put like green, yellow, and red lights, you know,

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Speaker 4: in terms of how much the evidence was showing support

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Speaker 4: for various therapies, and iver mactin was always on that

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Speaker 4: chart with a question mark because we'd heard some things

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Speaker 4: that ivermectin may be effective, but we had no data,

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Speaker 4: we had no science, no trials. And it was really

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Speaker 4: October of twenty twenty, probably what is six seven months

277
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Speaker 4: into the pandemic, when all of a sudden, a series

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Speaker 4: of studies from various places around the world started coming

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Speaker 4: out showing this incredible efficacy of ivermactin. I granted they

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Speaker 4: were small studies, but there's nothing wrong with a small study,

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Speaker 4: because what a small study can't do is it can't

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Speaker 4: detect small benefits. But when a small study detects large benefits,

283
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Speaker 4: you have a lot of difficulty explaining those ways. And

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Speaker 4: so we were seeing these immense benefits come out from

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Speaker 4: these studies, and Paul brought it to our attention in

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Speaker 4: the group, and we put it into a protocol. We

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00:17:52,653 --> 00:17:55,333
Speaker 4: had an early treatment protocol. We added many other medicines,

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00:17:55,973 --> 00:17:58,653
Speaker 4: you know, subsequent to that. But that's really what happened.

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Speaker 4: And when Paul, when those first few trials, Paul picked

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Speaker 4: up on that signal, I said, I'm going to write

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Speaker 4: a review paper on all of the emerging evidence of

292
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Speaker 4: IBA in COVID. And it was a really hard paper

293
00:18:10,533 --> 00:18:14,173
Speaker 4: to write. For one reason, laden is that every time

294
00:18:14,253 --> 00:18:16,933
Speaker 4: I was about to finish it and uploaded to a

295
00:18:16,973 --> 00:18:20,933
Speaker 4: preprint server or submitted to a journal, another study would

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00:18:20,973 --> 00:18:24,453
Speaker 4: come out. And it seemed like every week there was

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Speaker 4: a new study. And I always make the joke that

298
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Speaker 4: I had a reference manager for my manuscripts, which didn't

299
00:18:30,213 --> 00:18:34,613
Speaker 4: work very well. So I was manually reordering my references and.

300
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Speaker 3: Talked hours hours and hours and hours. But anyway, that's

301
00:18:39,013 --> 00:18:39,813
Speaker 3: kind of the story.

302
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Speaker 4: And I put out that paper in November of twenty twenty,

303
00:18:44,933 --> 00:18:48,733
Speaker 4: and then Senator Ron Johnson, who was like me. He

304
00:18:48,853 --> 00:18:53,133
Speaker 4: was similarly, you know, very kind of disappointed as a

305
00:18:53,133 --> 00:18:55,413
Speaker 4: mild word. I mean, he was irate that the government

306
00:18:55,453 --> 00:18:59,333
Speaker 4: was doing nothing to provide guidance on treatment, and so

307
00:18:59,373 --> 00:19:02,213
Speaker 4: he held these hearings. I testified for the first time

308
00:19:02,253 --> 00:19:05,013
Speaker 4: actually in May of twenty twenty on the critical need

309
00:19:05,093 --> 00:19:07,733
Speaker 4: for cortico steroids in the hospital phase of the disease.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, I did that at a time

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Speaker 4: when every national and international healthcare organization around the world

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00:19:14,733 --> 00:19:19,013
Speaker 4: was recommending against cortico steroids. So I got into my

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00:19:19,333 --> 00:19:22,613
Speaker 4: first rodeo in COVID was cordico steroids because I got

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00:19:22,693 --> 00:19:23,453
Speaker 4: hammered for that.

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Speaker 2: Right, just steroids or what exactly they are.

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Speaker 4: There's a strong anti inflammatory ammino suppressants, so they suppressed inflammation.

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Speaker 4: So the things like prednozone or hydro cortizone you might

318
00:19:37,013 --> 00:19:40,333
Speaker 4: have heard of, or quarters and those are cordico steroids,

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Speaker 4: and and everybody was saying don't use them, even though

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00:19:43,733 --> 00:19:46,813
Speaker 4: these patients were hyper inflaming. Then their lungs were actually

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Speaker 4: failing from excessive inflammation.

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Speaker 3: So it was not really a stretch to know that

323
00:19:51,933 --> 00:19:52,733
Speaker 3: it was important.

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Speaker 4: And we had a lot of scientific evidence from stars

325
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Speaker 4: and mers, but yet everybody's recommending against it. And it

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00:19:59,173 --> 00:20:02,093
Speaker 4: was just bizarre because Paul and I are expert clinicians

327
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Speaker 4: and we've been at the bedside trying to keep patients

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Speaker 4: alive for you know, decades, Like we know stuff that works,

329
00:20:08,053 --> 00:20:10,813
Speaker 4: we know it doesn't work, and we were using COVID

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Speaker 4: to good effect.

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Speaker 3: And so that was kind of the first thing. And

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Speaker 3: and but I'll just say that first chapter.

333
00:20:17,173 --> 00:20:20,373
Speaker 4: Although I was attacked viciously, even by my own university,

334
00:20:21,453 --> 00:20:25,213
Speaker 4: within three months it became the standard of care worldwide.

335
00:20:25,773 --> 00:20:30,093
Speaker 4: So people forget that my early, my early should I say,

336
00:20:30,173 --> 00:20:34,373
Speaker 4: dissent in treatment of COVID was later validated.

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00:20:34,933 --> 00:20:36,413
Speaker 3: But when it got.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, was it was it validated with recognition?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

340
00:20:40,173 --> 00:20:42,533
Speaker 4: Well no, no, no, no, no no one ever said, hey,

341
00:20:42,573 --> 00:20:43,813
Speaker 4: doctor Grace, sorry.

342
00:20:43,653 --> 00:20:44,733
Speaker 3: We attacked you.

343
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Speaker 4: No that that goes water under the bridge, no one,

344
00:20:46,733 --> 00:20:50,133
Speaker 4: no one, No one ever apologizes. But I know that

345
00:20:50,173 --> 00:20:53,173
Speaker 4: I was validated because what I had said earlier became

346
00:20:53,253 --> 00:20:56,973
Speaker 4: the standard of care. But no, there's no public you know,

347
00:20:57,453 --> 00:21:00,333
Speaker 4: championing or you get what I'm saying.

348
00:21:00,413 --> 00:21:01,013
Speaker 3: Late, So.

349
00:21:02,653 --> 00:21:06,333
Speaker 4: But then you know, the same thing happened with ivermactin

350
00:21:06,453 --> 00:21:10,453
Speaker 4: is that we had this incredible sign The first patient

351
00:21:10,533 --> 00:21:14,413
Speaker 4: I treated turned around overnight with ivermactin. And I was

352
00:21:14,453 --> 00:21:16,893
Speaker 4: also talked to the doctors from various places around the

353
00:21:16,893 --> 00:21:19,373
Speaker 4: world that they were just telling me these incredible benefits.

354
00:21:19,413 --> 00:21:22,733
Speaker 4: I mean, nobody was dying in places they were using ivermactin.

355
00:21:23,053 --> 00:21:26,733
Speaker 4: I talked to patients in South America and India, plus

356
00:21:26,773 --> 00:21:30,213
Speaker 4: all of the studies showed the same thing. And then

357
00:21:30,253 --> 00:21:33,773
Speaker 4: I got to testify again in Senator Johnston's hearing in

358
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Speaker 4: December of twenty twenty, and that testimony went viral, and

359
00:21:37,213 --> 00:21:40,973
Speaker 4: then ivermactin became a real issue. It became it was

360
00:21:40,973 --> 00:21:44,013
Speaker 4: on the tongues of everybody. Everyone was considering it.

361
00:21:44,093 --> 00:21:47,493
Speaker 3: But when I first testified, I listen.

362
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Speaker 4: I didn't think I would get a ticker tape parade,

363
00:21:50,093 --> 00:21:53,413
Speaker 4: but I thought people would appreciate that we'd identified this

364
00:21:53,813 --> 00:21:57,573
Speaker 4: really positive data signal and they would incorporate it into

365
00:21:57,613 --> 00:22:00,533
Speaker 4: their protocols and people would start to use it. But

366
00:22:00,613 --> 00:22:04,533
Speaker 4: this is where my life changed, is that the opposite happened,

367
00:22:05,373 --> 00:22:08,733
Speaker 4: and I was very confused. I really did know what

368
00:22:08,773 --> 00:22:14,213
Speaker 4: was going on, but instead it was immediately attacked, dismissed.

369
00:22:14,693 --> 00:22:17,733
Speaker 4: I was personally attacked Paul Marreck was personally attacked. Hit

370
00:22:17,853 --> 00:22:20,293
Speaker 4: jobs showed up in the media, and I saw these

371
00:22:20,493 --> 00:22:25,653
Speaker 4: blatant distortions and untruths being published by the major media

372
00:22:25,813 --> 00:22:29,653
Speaker 4: organizations around the world. And they all had the same formula,

373
00:22:29,813 --> 00:22:34,733
Speaker 4: same template, used similar quotes from pedigree doctors from these

374
00:22:35,333 --> 00:22:38,373
Speaker 4: high fluting agencies and or universities.

375
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Speaker 3: And it was to say, it was disappointing. It was

376
00:22:43,253 --> 00:22:44,813
Speaker 3: really a kind of disorienting.

377
00:22:44,893 --> 00:22:47,453
Speaker 2: Did the word corruption, did the word corruption?

378
00:22:47,613 --> 00:22:50,613
Speaker 3: And not at not initially?

379
00:22:52,853 --> 00:22:54,893
Speaker 4: No. And I'll tell you why I didn't leap to

380
00:22:54,933 --> 00:22:58,733
Speaker 4: corruption initially. It is because there's this thing in medicine.

381
00:22:58,773 --> 00:23:00,813
Speaker 4: I don't know if you're aware of it, but there's

382
00:23:00,853 --> 00:23:04,573
Speaker 4: a field of medicine that actually was first originated in

383
00:23:04,573 --> 00:23:08,333
Speaker 4: the early nineteen nineties, and it's called evidence based medicine.

384
00:23:09,533 --> 00:23:15,133
Speaker 4: And it was this development where we as a field

385
00:23:15,533 --> 00:23:19,773
Speaker 4: decided to really make sure that any treatments we used

386
00:23:20,373 --> 00:23:25,253
Speaker 4: have sufficient evidence of safety and efficacy. And part of

387
00:23:25,253 --> 00:23:30,173
Speaker 4: that field is assessing or assigning a quality of evidence

388
00:23:30,213 --> 00:23:31,253
Speaker 4: to everything, and so.

389
00:23:32,253 --> 00:23:34,173
Speaker 3: It's a very cautious type of thing.

390
00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:38,613
Speaker 4: It's first member, do no harm, right, But also they

391
00:23:38,653 --> 00:23:40,813
Speaker 4: just wanted to make sure that the way we treated

392
00:23:40,853 --> 00:23:45,213
Speaker 4: diseases had scientific evidence to support them, and I believed

393
00:23:45,213 --> 00:23:48,173
Speaker 4: in evidence based medicine how was practice, But I came

394
00:23:48,253 --> 00:23:52,613
Speaker 4: to find out that evidence based medicine got corrupted and

395
00:23:52,693 --> 00:23:56,493
Speaker 4: distorted from its original precepts. And so when it was

396
00:23:56,653 --> 00:23:59,773
Speaker 4: when my first recommendations were not accepted, like I'd been

397
00:23:59,893 --> 00:24:02,933
Speaker 4: used to that, I'd had evidence based medicine arguments with

398
00:24:03,053 --> 00:24:06,813
Speaker 4: colleagues for a decade, because every time I said something worked,

399
00:24:07,013 --> 00:24:09,773
Speaker 4: they were like, where's the random controlled trial to show that.

400
00:24:10,173 --> 00:24:12,573
Speaker 4: There's this trial that shows this this trial that shows

401
00:24:12,613 --> 00:24:16,453
Speaker 4: that the evidence is conflicting. It's controversial, and I'm I

402
00:24:16,533 --> 00:24:19,893
Speaker 4: had some of these tired arguments later, but as a physician.

403
00:24:19,973 --> 00:24:21,213
Speaker 3: I knew what worked.

404
00:24:21,493 --> 00:24:23,573
Speaker 4: I mean, I was doing stuff in my practice, in

405
00:24:23,613 --> 00:24:26,213
Speaker 4: my ICU. I could see patients turning around if I

406
00:24:26,213 --> 00:24:28,973
Speaker 4: did stuff to them. But yet I'd be lambasted with

407
00:24:29,093 --> 00:24:32,853
Speaker 4: all of these evidence based medicine arguments that what I

408
00:24:32,893 --> 00:24:34,893
Speaker 4: was actually doing to help people wasn't working.

409
00:24:35,293 --> 00:24:37,853
Speaker 3: And so it was a dystopian world a little bit.

410
00:24:38,013 --> 00:24:41,133
Speaker 4: And and so at first I thought this was about

411
00:24:41,173 --> 00:24:44,133
Speaker 4: an argument over evidence. Is that the agencies around the

412
00:24:44,133 --> 00:24:46,293
Speaker 4: world and the scientists around the world we're not going

413
00:24:46,333 --> 00:24:49,613
Speaker 4: to rescommend something until they had what's called high quality,

414
00:24:49,733 --> 00:24:53,093
Speaker 4: rigorous evidence. You know, my word that I'm turning patients

415
00:24:53,093 --> 00:24:56,933
Speaker 4: around was not enough. We needed the big trial, right even.

416
00:24:56,773 --> 00:25:00,493
Speaker 2: Though result called up just a second, I'm intrigued. You're

417
00:25:00,493 --> 00:25:04,173
Speaker 2: in a hospital, you're working in a hospital, and you're

418
00:25:04,213 --> 00:25:07,253
Speaker 2: doing all this and you're surrounded by other medical people,

419
00:25:07,533 --> 00:25:09,173
Speaker 2: doctors in space have you.

420
00:25:10,773 --> 00:25:11,013
Speaker 3: Yep?

421
00:25:11,133 --> 00:25:13,853
Speaker 2: Couldn't they see what you were seeing as the result?

422
00:25:14,973 --> 00:25:16,253
Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing.

423
00:25:18,173 --> 00:25:22,893
Speaker 4: No, because they're not involved with my patients and me

424
00:25:23,093 --> 00:25:26,213
Speaker 4: telling them that I'm seeing patients turn around with the

425
00:25:26,293 --> 00:25:29,413
Speaker 4: use of a certain drug, they'd have to take my

426
00:25:29,453 --> 00:25:30,013
Speaker 4: word for it.

427
00:25:30,653 --> 00:25:33,013
Speaker 3: And they were I'm.

428
00:25:33,013 --> 00:25:39,013
Speaker 4: Just say, propagandized with so much negativity towards potential treatments

429
00:25:39,013 --> 00:25:43,333
Speaker 4: for COVID. Right, So just real quick, as you mentioned,

430
00:25:43,373 --> 00:25:46,253
Speaker 4: I wrote the book The War and I vermactin the

431
00:25:47,013 --> 00:25:49,293
Speaker 4: one of my colleagues could have written the book The

432
00:25:49,333 --> 00:25:53,173
Speaker 4: War on hydroxy chloroquin because if you read my book

433
00:25:53,293 --> 00:25:55,613
Speaker 4: when I when I described the war and I remactin,

434
00:25:56,053 --> 00:26:00,613
Speaker 4: it was the same exact war as hydroxychlorquin a year prior,

435
00:26:01,133 --> 00:26:05,653
Speaker 4: the same tactic, same results. And so now I'm kind

436
00:26:05,653 --> 00:26:10,173
Speaker 4: of jumping to. What I've learned is that me low cost,

437
00:26:10,773 --> 00:26:17,013
Speaker 4: widely available, effective therapeutic that threatens the financial interest or

438
00:26:17,053 --> 00:26:20,173
Speaker 4: the markets that popped up in COVID, not only just

439
00:26:20,213 --> 00:26:25,653
Speaker 4: for the vaccines, but remdesivir, pack, Slovid, molnipevir, all of

440
00:26:25,693 --> 00:26:31,453
Speaker 4: these pipeline patented pharmaceuticals, those, all these cheap, safe, effective,

441
00:26:31,493 --> 00:26:35,013
Speaker 4: repurpose therapies threaten them. And so what they do to

442
00:26:35,133 --> 00:26:40,653
Speaker 4: those therapies is they employ disinformation campaigns. And when I

443
00:26:40,693 --> 00:26:45,773
Speaker 4: first gave my testimony and ivermactin and the response to it,

444
00:26:45,813 --> 00:26:47,013
Speaker 4: I couldn't understand it.

445
00:26:47,053 --> 00:26:48,933
Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't know what was going on.

446
00:26:48,973 --> 00:26:51,333
Speaker 4: I thought this is more about just like people arguing

447
00:26:51,333 --> 00:26:53,933
Speaker 4: about wanting, you know, the best evidence.

448
00:26:53,493 --> 00:26:55,853
Speaker 3: And I thought it was more of a scientific argument.

449
00:26:56,493 --> 00:26:59,333
Speaker 4: And it was only four months after that when I

450
00:26:59,373 --> 00:27:02,293
Speaker 4: was still confused, although I started to get other signals

451
00:27:02,293 --> 00:27:05,453
Speaker 4: that there was something more nefarious than a scientific disagreement.

452
00:27:06,333 --> 00:27:08,973
Speaker 4: One of the first signs was my review paper, which

453
00:27:09,013 --> 00:27:12,653
Speaker 4: had been accepted for publication after passing three rounds of

454
00:27:12,733 --> 00:27:17,293
Speaker 4: rigorous peer review by senior scientists, three of them selected

455
00:27:17,293 --> 00:27:19,493
Speaker 4: from the NIH and CDC in the US.

456
00:27:20,693 --> 00:27:24,373
Speaker 3: The journal had accepted it for publication, but they wouldn't

457
00:27:24,693 --> 00:27:29,653
Speaker 3: publish it. And week after week went by, and I.

458
00:27:29,573 --> 00:27:33,053
Speaker 4: Was getting really disturbed by this because it was the

459
00:27:33,093 --> 00:27:35,893
Speaker 4: winter of twenty twenty twenty one, which was the highest

460
00:27:35,973 --> 00:27:39,653
Speaker 4: death rates in this country since before or since, I mean,

461
00:27:39,653 --> 00:27:42,973
Speaker 4: it was a wicked winter of death from COVID, and

462
00:27:43,053 --> 00:27:46,853
Speaker 4: they wouldn't publish my papers, and I finally I wrote

463
00:27:47,773 --> 00:27:50,573
Speaker 4: an accusatory email to the journal. I said, I suspect

464
00:27:50,613 --> 00:27:54,693
Speaker 4: scientific misconduct, and within a day the editor reached out

465
00:27:54,693 --> 00:27:58,093
Speaker 4: to my editor and we'd learned that they were retracting

466
00:27:58,253 --> 00:27:58,773
Speaker 4: the paper.

467
00:28:00,853 --> 00:28:03,653
Speaker 3: They were not going to publish it. Your question was answered,

468
00:28:04,373 --> 00:28:05,293
Speaker 3: My question was answered.

469
00:28:05,293 --> 00:28:07,933
Speaker 4: And that's when I finally realized I was up against something.

470
00:28:07,973 --> 00:28:10,413
Speaker 4: I didn't know what it was, but it wasn't good,

471
00:28:11,173 --> 00:28:15,333
Speaker 4: and it wasn't scientific, it wasn't humanitarian. I knew there

472
00:28:15,373 --> 00:28:18,613
Speaker 4: was a force that was working against what we were

473
00:28:18,653 --> 00:28:20,973
Speaker 4: trying to do, which has helped people in the world,

474
00:28:22,013 --> 00:28:24,733
Speaker 4: and so I started get the feeling like there was

475
00:28:24,733 --> 00:28:27,173
Speaker 4: something out there that was working against us. And that

476
00:28:27,453 --> 00:28:29,573
Speaker 4: was the first time when I realized.

477
00:28:29,213 --> 00:28:31,133
Speaker 3: This wasn't just a scientific argument.

478
00:28:32,933 --> 00:28:36,413
Speaker 4: And then what changed my life and which inspired that book,

479
00:28:37,013 --> 00:28:41,573
Speaker 4: was in March of twenty twenty one, so four months

480
00:28:41,613 --> 00:28:44,773
Speaker 4: after my testimony, I got an email one morning from

481
00:28:44,773 --> 00:28:48,013
Speaker 4: someone I didn't know. It was a two line email,

482
00:28:48,293 --> 00:28:51,333
Speaker 4: and it was from a guy named Professor William B. Grant,

483
00:28:51,373 --> 00:28:54,053
Speaker 4: and he's one of the most published researchers on vitamin

484
00:28:54,173 --> 00:28:57,653
Speaker 4: D in the world. And he wrote me an email

485
00:28:57,933 --> 00:29:01,293
Speaker 4: out of the blue, said, dear doctor Corey, what they're

486
00:29:01,413 --> 00:29:06,253
Speaker 4: doing to ivermectin. They've been doing to vitamin D for decades,

487
00:29:06,813 --> 00:29:09,053
Speaker 4: and he included a link to an article called the

488
00:29:09,173 --> 00:29:13,053
Speaker 4: Disinformation Playbook. And I was really intrigued by this email,

489
00:29:13,093 --> 00:29:15,733
Speaker 4: so I click on the article and I start reading

490
00:29:15,813 --> 00:29:18,293
Speaker 4: and it's written by an organization called the Union for

491
00:29:18,373 --> 00:29:22,333
Speaker 4: Concerns Scientists. It was written in twenty seventeen, before the pandemic,

492
00:29:22,973 --> 00:29:28,453
Speaker 4: and it outlines what industries do when science emergers that's

493
00:29:28,493 --> 00:29:32,413
Speaker 4: inconvenient to their interests. And they're named after American football plays.

494
00:29:32,453 --> 00:29:35,533
Speaker 4: It's like the fake, the fix, the screen, the blitz,

495
00:29:35,573 --> 00:29:39,493
Speaker 4: the diversion, And I'm reading the descriptions of these tactics

496
00:29:39,733 --> 00:29:42,933
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh my god, Suddenly it's like I

497
00:29:42,933 --> 00:29:45,253
Speaker 4: had the teacher's addition to what was going on because

498
00:29:45,613 --> 00:29:48,533
Speaker 4: I had I had dozens of examples of each of

499
00:29:48,573 --> 00:29:52,693
Speaker 4: those tactics being deployed against ivermactin in the prior four months,

500
00:29:53,013 --> 00:29:55,693
Speaker 4: and I realized that I was like had a front

501
00:29:55,773 --> 00:29:59,013
Speaker 4: row seat and I was the target of a global

502
00:29:59,093 --> 00:30:04,213
Speaker 4: disinformation campaign against ivermactin. And that's kind of one of

503
00:30:04,253 --> 00:30:07,453
Speaker 4: the probably one of the biggest, not the only biggest

504
00:30:07,453 --> 00:30:09,693
Speaker 4: awakenings that the world that I thought I lived in

505
00:30:09,893 --> 00:30:14,333
Speaker 4: was operating by very different principles and forces.

506
00:30:15,453 --> 00:30:16,333
Speaker 2: How did that affect you?

507
00:30:19,773 --> 00:30:24,173
Speaker 4: Oh, it's an odd answer, but in a way, I

508
00:30:24,173 --> 00:30:27,013
Speaker 4: wouldn't say it made me happy, But yeah, I'm always

509
00:30:27,053 --> 00:30:30,093
Speaker 4: trying to figure out problems and understand ways to navigate

510
00:30:30,133 --> 00:30:30,413
Speaker 4: and go.

511
00:30:30,453 --> 00:30:31,493
Speaker 3: Forward and to help.

512
00:30:32,093 --> 00:30:35,973
Speaker 4: That article helped me really positively because now I felt

513
00:30:36,053 --> 00:30:39,013
Speaker 4: I understood the problem and what I was up against

514
00:30:39,693 --> 00:30:42,493
Speaker 4: and how I could maybe start to approach it because

515
00:30:42,533 --> 00:30:45,333
Speaker 4: I was really confused for four months. I started having

516
00:30:45,373 --> 00:30:48,893
Speaker 4: suspicions that there was something going on, and there's probably

517
00:30:48,973 --> 00:30:52,333
Speaker 4: people who didn't want IVERMAC them to be recommended for everyone.

518
00:30:52,533 --> 00:30:55,613
Speaker 4: But when I read that article, it really brought everything

519
00:30:55,733 --> 00:30:59,013
Speaker 4: to a sharp focus, and it was interesting about the

520
00:30:59,053 --> 00:31:03,333
Speaker 4: disinformation playbook. It was invented in the nineteen fifties by

521
00:31:03,373 --> 00:31:06,253
Speaker 4: a pr firm, so it was literally it's a playbook

522
00:31:06,253 --> 00:31:09,453
Speaker 4: put together by a public relations firm that was hired

523
00:31:09,573 --> 00:31:15,173
Speaker 4: by the tobacco industry. When science emerged that was inconvenient

524
00:31:15,253 --> 00:31:19,413
Speaker 4: to their interests, right, the science around cancer, and so

525
00:31:19,573 --> 00:31:24,453
Speaker 4: the disinformation around tobacco had been practiced for fifty years,

526
00:31:24,933 --> 00:31:28,893
Speaker 4: but the pharmaceutical industry have honed that to like an

527
00:31:28,933 --> 00:31:34,333
Speaker 4: assassin level. And the other thing is Fharma has more

528
00:31:34,373 --> 00:31:37,493
Speaker 4: control than tobacco because Farmer is one of the biggest

529
00:31:37,813 --> 00:31:43,453
Speaker 4: advertisers in the world, particularly in the United States tapers, televisions,

530
00:31:43,533 --> 00:31:46,333
Speaker 4: you know, not New Zealand, as I understand, but here

531
00:31:46,373 --> 00:31:46,773
Speaker 4: it is.

532
00:31:47,333 --> 00:31:52,293
Speaker 2: But third in the list of big expenders, oh for sure.

533
00:31:52,693 --> 00:31:56,133
Speaker 2: And in lobbying and congress, farmers number one. It's two

534
00:31:56,213 --> 00:32:00,333
Speaker 2: to three times the coal and gas budget, as I've understood,

535
00:32:00,413 --> 00:32:04,253
Speaker 2: the number one advertiser in American media. And so they

536
00:32:04,293 --> 00:32:08,693
Speaker 2: literally control all of the information sources. And so people

537
00:32:08,693 --> 00:32:14,053
Speaker 2: listen to media and television newspapers for like health guidance,

538
00:32:15,293 --> 00:32:18,373
Speaker 2: you're not going to hear any centing opinions. Then what's

539
00:32:18,373 --> 00:32:20,893
Speaker 2: in the interest of the pharmaceutal industry and why people

540
00:32:20,893 --> 00:32:22,013
Speaker 2: don't understand.

541
00:32:21,573 --> 00:32:26,253
Speaker 4: That to this day. I just I can't figure that out.

542
00:32:26,333 --> 00:32:29,773
Speaker 4: Why people have not figured that out well.

543
00:32:29,933 --> 00:32:34,773
Speaker 2: On a much smaller scale, it's it's not non existent,

544
00:32:35,133 --> 00:32:37,533
Speaker 2: if I might put it that way, not non existent

545
00:32:37,693 --> 00:32:42,693
Speaker 2: in this country. Uh, it's it's much smaller. But but

546
00:32:42,773 --> 00:32:45,453
Speaker 2: I know that that has happened, so I know of

547
00:32:45,573 --> 00:32:52,133
Speaker 2: somebody who was affected by it. Yeah, and advertising is

548
00:32:52,173 --> 00:32:54,253
Speaker 2: what keeps is what keeps the media going?

549
00:32:55,053 --> 00:32:58,493
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure here it's I think it's the scale

550
00:32:58,493 --> 00:33:02,213
Speaker 4: of their influence and powers is many magnitudes over what

551
00:33:02,293 --> 00:33:03,573
Speaker 4: it must be like in New Zealand.

552
00:33:03,613 --> 00:33:05,013
Speaker 3: But but the.

553
00:33:04,973 --> 00:33:07,893
Speaker 4: Thing is they don't necessarily just need to control the media.

554
00:33:07,933 --> 00:33:10,213
Speaker 4: And this is are now going from Old Pier to

555
00:33:10,293 --> 00:33:15,133
Speaker 4: New Pier. It's not just the media, it's the journals.

556
00:33:15,253 --> 00:33:17,173
Speaker 3: It's the medical journals themselves.

557
00:33:17,293 --> 00:33:20,213
Speaker 4: And I think the foundation for all of the fraud

558
00:33:20,253 --> 00:33:24,573
Speaker 4: in COVID, especially against early repurpose drugs like hydroxy coroquin

559
00:33:24,693 --> 00:33:29,093
Speaker 4: and ivermactin, it begins at the level of the high

560
00:33:29,173 --> 00:33:33,413
Speaker 4: impact medical journals. They're the ones that allowed the publication

561
00:33:33,573 --> 00:33:39,053
Speaker 4: of manipulated, fraudulent trials attacking those drugs. Once you have

562
00:33:39,173 --> 00:33:43,493
Speaker 4: those journals, those manuscripts published in those major journals, that's

563
00:33:43,493 --> 00:33:45,893
Speaker 4: the foundation for everything else that happens, because you don't

564
00:33:45,933 --> 00:33:48,773
Speaker 4: need the media at that point. Now that supports the

565
00:33:48,773 --> 00:33:52,213
Speaker 4: health agencies. So the health agency, look, we're looking at

566
00:33:52,213 --> 00:33:54,733
Speaker 4: the best science, the British Medical Journal, you know, the

567
00:33:54,773 --> 00:33:56,813
Speaker 4: New England Journal of Medicine, the Journal of the American

568
00:33:56,853 --> 00:34:00,853
Speaker 4: Medical Association. They say, hydroxychlorcon doesn't work, ivermactin doesn't work.

569
00:34:00,893 --> 00:34:02,893
Speaker 3: And so I was watching this.

570
00:34:03,253 --> 00:34:07,733
Speaker 4: Global fraud with millions dying because they weren't having access

571
00:34:07,773 --> 00:34:10,293
Speaker 4: to early treat and drugs. And so when you ask

572
00:34:10,333 --> 00:34:13,293
Speaker 4: me first how that felt when I read the disinformation playbook,

573
00:34:14,373 --> 00:34:17,013
Speaker 4: as I after I learned Decision Lead, and it started

574
00:34:17,013 --> 00:34:21,693
Speaker 4: to see what the consequences of this massive disinformation was

575
00:34:22,093 --> 00:34:28,733
Speaker 4: and how much destruction they achieved and the humanitarian catastrophe

576
00:34:28,733 --> 00:34:33,493
Speaker 4: that unfolded, which is needless deaths worldwide. And then I'm

577
00:34:33,493 --> 00:34:35,893
Speaker 4: going to have to bring in another difficult topic. That

578
00:34:36,213 --> 00:34:41,493
Speaker 4: same disinformation campaign against early treatment DOUGS was employed to

579
00:34:41,653 --> 00:34:45,653
Speaker 4: prop up the most toxic and lethal intervention in the

580
00:34:45,693 --> 00:34:48,933
Speaker 4: history of medicine, which is these mRNA vaccines. I don't

581
00:34:48,933 --> 00:34:50,933
Speaker 4: want to detract from the ironmatin thing, but I have

582
00:34:51,013 --> 00:34:54,053
Speaker 4: to tell you I watched that same campaign prop up

583
00:34:54,093 --> 00:34:56,813
Speaker 4: the vaccines, and so it was like a double whammy.

584
00:34:57,093 --> 00:35:00,493
Speaker 4: And all I want to say laden is COVID would

585
00:35:00,533 --> 00:35:04,653
Speaker 4: have been over early on, or it would not have

586
00:35:04,733 --> 00:35:09,133
Speaker 4: been this major worldwide catastrophe that it was had science

587
00:35:09,213 --> 00:35:16,053
Speaker 4: not been so controlled, corrupted and manipulated to make billions

588
00:35:16,053 --> 00:35:18,893
Speaker 4: of dollars. I mean, look at the billions they made

589
00:35:18,933 --> 00:35:21,733
Speaker 4: off of vaccines rem dec of the I don't know

590
00:35:21,733 --> 00:35:23,653
Speaker 4: if they use reum descritate in New Zealand most of

591
00:35:23,653 --> 00:35:28,213
Speaker 4: the world. They did here they did, even despite the

592
00:35:28,373 --> 00:35:31,333
Speaker 4: WHO saying it didn't work, which was really bizarre to me.

593
00:35:31,773 --> 00:35:35,613
Speaker 4: Like it's it's infused into every COVID patient's arm in

594
00:35:35,653 --> 00:35:38,573
Speaker 4: the United States, and it's a worthless drug. It has

595
00:35:38,693 --> 00:35:41,933
Speaker 4: no logical sense for working. The data the shows that

596
00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:47,173
Speaker 4: it works is manipulated, and so like I basically Layton,

597
00:35:48,213 --> 00:35:50,573
Speaker 4: I based, you know, from from the comfortable world that

598
00:35:50,613 --> 00:35:50,973
Speaker 4: I thought.

599
00:35:51,053 --> 00:35:53,053
Speaker 3: We thought we were.

600
00:35:53,013 --> 00:35:56,813
Speaker 4: Organized and respected and followed certain rules and medical ethics,

601
00:35:56,893 --> 00:35:58,973
Speaker 4: and it was somewhat of an orderly world that I

602
00:35:59,013 --> 00:36:01,933
Speaker 4: thought I lived in. Obviously with with evil and violence

603
00:36:01,973 --> 00:36:04,693
Speaker 4: and all those things, but I thought the institutions were

604
00:36:05,173 --> 00:36:09,293
Speaker 4: marshaled against that to it to you know, a few

605
00:36:09,373 --> 00:36:11,933
Speaker 4: years into COVID, I realized I lived in a dystopian

606
00:36:11,973 --> 00:36:15,093
Speaker 4: world where the institutions on their face look like they're

607
00:36:15,133 --> 00:36:20,133
Speaker 4: doing the right thing. Behind the scenes, they were basically

608
00:36:20,253 --> 00:36:25,293
Speaker 4: creating actions and policies that were directly harmful to not

609
00:36:25,333 --> 00:36:29,413
Speaker 4: only my country's citizenry, but countries around the world. And

610
00:36:29,413 --> 00:36:32,173
Speaker 4: I would say the western and most media saturated in advance,

611
00:36:32,213 --> 00:36:33,493
Speaker 4: like the advanced health economies of the.

612
00:36:33,493 --> 00:36:35,533
Speaker 3: World, they did the worst.

613
00:36:36,093 --> 00:36:40,173
Speaker 4: They were the most manipulated and also the most profitable.

614
00:36:41,533 --> 00:36:44,413
Speaker 4: And so it basically I realized I lived in a

615
00:36:44,413 --> 00:36:45,733
Speaker 4: different world than I thought I lived in.

616
00:36:46,493 --> 00:36:48,853
Speaker 2: Now would be a good time, I think, to introduce

617
00:36:48,973 --> 00:36:54,733
Speaker 2: the tourist who was well over wait and came into

618
00:36:54,813 --> 00:37:02,893
Speaker 2: your hospital. Yeah, and you took care of him. Yeah,

619
00:37:03,293 --> 00:37:04,333
Speaker 2: just tell us the detail.

620
00:37:05,373 --> 00:37:07,973
Speaker 4: Now, are you referring to the patient who I discovered

621
00:37:08,093 --> 00:37:09,293
Speaker 4: was fully vaccinated?

622
00:37:11,133 --> 00:37:13,173
Speaker 2: This was a guy who was I con't remember it.

623
00:37:13,853 --> 00:37:16,533
Speaker 2: This is the guy who was was why I were white.

624
00:37:16,733 --> 00:37:17,613
Speaker 2: He was a tourist.

625
00:37:20,613 --> 00:37:23,413
Speaker 4: Oh, so that was around ivermactin that so that wasn't

626
00:37:23,493 --> 00:37:25,893
Speaker 4: my page. I'm not sure, because there's there's a couple

627
00:37:25,893 --> 00:37:28,973
Speaker 4: of instances of positions that I used to begin some

628
00:37:29,093 --> 00:37:29,933
Speaker 4: topics in my book.

629
00:37:29,933 --> 00:37:34,653
Speaker 3: But was that It may have been because.

630
00:37:34,453 --> 00:37:36,453
Speaker 2: I think because I'm pretty I'm pretty sure now that

631
00:37:36,493 --> 00:37:39,493
Speaker 2: he actually mentioned in our discussion.

632
00:37:40,253 --> 00:37:41,693
Speaker 3: But this was around Ivermactin.

633
00:37:41,933 --> 00:37:45,853
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, So, so the instance that I use is

634
00:37:45,893 --> 00:37:50,613
Speaker 4: that in my research on Ivermactin, not only did we

635
00:37:50,613 --> 00:37:53,093
Speaker 4: start seeing all these trials, but I realized that the

636
00:37:53,253 --> 00:37:59,013
Speaker 4: first paper that showed the incredible evidence of kfcy of

637
00:37:59,053 --> 00:38:03,253
Speaker 4: Ivermactin was actually a case series from the Dominican Republic

638
00:38:03,653 --> 00:38:06,453
Speaker 4: which was posted on a preprint server in June of

639
00:38:06,533 --> 00:38:08,973
Speaker 4: twenty twenty. That that goes back to the statement I

640
00:38:09,013 --> 00:38:11,093
Speaker 4: just made too late, and is that COVID would have

641
00:38:11,213 --> 00:38:15,333
Speaker 4: never been an issue if we were like objective, reasonable,

642
00:38:15,453 --> 00:38:19,573
Speaker 4: pragmatic and looking at all evidence equally. But what happened

643
00:38:19,613 --> 00:38:22,213
Speaker 4: in the Dominican Republic is in March of twenty twenty.

644
00:38:22,213 --> 00:38:24,893
Speaker 4: Remember March of twenty twenty. This is when COVID was

645
00:38:24,933 --> 00:38:28,293
Speaker 4: just beginning. There's this really So what happened is the

646
00:38:28,413 --> 00:38:32,453
Speaker 4: lead author of that case series, which had immense difficulty

647
00:38:32,453 --> 00:38:34,933
Speaker 4: getting published, which is another thing I don't want to

648
00:38:34,973 --> 00:38:38,653
Speaker 4: go backwards into corruption. But not only were the journals

649
00:38:38,693 --> 00:38:45,053
Speaker 4: publishing manipulated trials with pre determined results, they were.

650
00:38:44,893 --> 00:38:47,733
Speaker 3: Rejecting and retracting any.

651
00:38:47,653 --> 00:38:52,893
Speaker 4: Science which advanced or support of alternative cheap therapies. And

652
00:38:52,973 --> 00:38:56,373
Speaker 4: so the first time they posted their paper was in

653
00:38:56,453 --> 00:38:57,933
Speaker 4: June of twenty twenty. I think it took them a

654
00:38:58,013 --> 00:39:01,253
Speaker 4: year to publish it in like some tertiary journal. But

655
00:39:01,333 --> 00:39:04,093
Speaker 4: I ended up becoming in contact with the lead author,

656
00:39:05,013 --> 00:39:07,333
Speaker 4: and I even know when I was in Dominican Republic.

657
00:39:07,053 --> 00:39:08,933
Speaker 3: Is that's the place that I would go vacation.

658
00:39:09,413 --> 00:39:12,013
Speaker 4: I got to meet up with him and we had

659
00:39:12,093 --> 00:39:15,093
Speaker 4: drinks one night and he told me this the origin

660
00:39:15,253 --> 00:39:17,973
Speaker 4: story of his discovery of ivermactin in COVID, and that

661
00:39:18,053 --> 00:39:21,453
Speaker 4: was in March of twenty twenty. He said that he

662
00:39:21,773 --> 00:39:24,133
Speaker 4: owned a series of clinics in the Minia Republic and

663
00:39:24,173 --> 00:39:26,213
Speaker 4: he got a call one night from a doctor who

664
00:39:26,253 --> 00:39:30,213
Speaker 4: was on call and had just admitted some overweight I

665
00:39:30,213 --> 00:39:33,373
Speaker 4: think it was an American tourist who was hypoxic on oxygen,

666
00:39:33,533 --> 00:39:34,333
Speaker 4: not looking good.

667
00:39:35,573 --> 00:39:36,133
Speaker 3: Was that the story?

668
00:39:36,213 --> 00:39:39,933
Speaker 4: Yeah, but this is like the origin story, and so

669
00:39:40,093 --> 00:39:43,373
Speaker 4: he you know, the doctor calls and says, hey, you know,

670
00:39:43,453 --> 00:39:44,813
Speaker 4: this guy's looking really bad.

671
00:39:45,213 --> 00:39:46,453
Speaker 3: He's like, what do you think we should do?

672
00:39:46,613 --> 00:39:50,053
Speaker 4: And the doctor apparently had researched or known about ivermactin

673
00:39:50,093 --> 00:39:53,373
Speaker 4: as an anti viral, and so he asked his essential

674
00:39:53,453 --> 00:39:57,733
Speaker 4: boss for permission to treat the guy with ivermactin. And

675
00:39:58,013 --> 00:40:00,893
Speaker 4: so doctor Radondo, who is my colleague who I was

676
00:40:00,933 --> 00:40:04,053
Speaker 4: talking to at this time. Doctor Dondo, in his account

677
00:40:04,053 --> 00:40:06,413
Speaker 4: he said, you know what, I convened our committee, you know,

678
00:40:06,453 --> 00:40:08,813
Speaker 4: because they, you know, his clinics had one, like a

679
00:40:08,853 --> 00:40:13,293
Speaker 4: therapeutic committee. He said, I consulted them and we discussed

680
00:40:13,293 --> 00:40:16,253
Speaker 4: the case, and we understood the gravity of this patient.

681
00:40:16,853 --> 00:40:19,693
Speaker 4: And I called the doctor back who was on call,

682
00:40:19,773 --> 00:40:23,093
Speaker 4: and I said, you have we're giving you permission to

683
00:40:23,133 --> 00:40:26,533
Speaker 4: treat him with ivermectin, and the doctor replied, thanks, I

684
00:40:26,573 --> 00:40:31,333
Speaker 4: gave it to him an hour ago, which I always loved,

685
00:40:30,853 --> 00:40:33,413
Speaker 4: so the doctor of vision. But the point of that

686
00:40:33,493 --> 00:40:38,413
Speaker 4: story was the guy rapidly improved overnight, and I think

687
00:40:38,453 --> 00:40:41,013
Speaker 4: he got discharged the next day off oxygen.

688
00:40:41,053 --> 00:40:43,253
Speaker 3: So it was like this dramatic response.

689
00:40:44,013 --> 00:40:47,573
Speaker 4: And so after that first patient, they quickly developed a protocol.

690
00:40:47,653 --> 00:40:50,613
Speaker 4: They treated everyone in their urgent cares and emergency rooms

691
00:40:50,613 --> 00:40:53,133
Speaker 4: with avermeactin. They did this for months, and then in

692
00:40:53,213 --> 00:40:57,293
Speaker 4: June twenty twenty they reported on thirty three hundred patients

693
00:40:58,213 --> 00:41:02,493
Speaker 4: treated with iver maactin on arrival to any of their facilities,

694
00:41:03,173 --> 00:41:06,533
Speaker 4: and out of the thirty three hundred patients, they had

695
00:41:06,653 --> 00:41:09,613
Speaker 4: sixteen hospitalizations and two deaths.

696
00:41:10,573 --> 00:41:12,213
Speaker 3: Two deaths out.

697
00:41:12,013 --> 00:41:15,213
Speaker 4: Of thirty three hundred patients arriving at an urgency at

698
00:41:15,533 --> 00:41:17,333
Speaker 4: urgent cares and emergency.

699
00:41:16,893 --> 00:41:19,613
Speaker 3: Rooms, which is a dramatic result.

700
00:41:20,293 --> 00:41:24,373
Speaker 4: And anyway, that's where that adnecdote came from. But the

701
00:41:24,413 --> 00:41:27,173
Speaker 4: point of that story is, like that paper showed up

702
00:41:27,173 --> 00:41:29,493
Speaker 4: on a preprint server of June to twenty twenty. There's

703
00:41:29,533 --> 00:41:32,133
Speaker 4: no advanced health economy in the world that was monitoring

704
00:41:32,173 --> 00:41:36,733
Speaker 4: preprints looking for data that possibly showed early evidence of

705
00:41:36,733 --> 00:41:38,973
Speaker 4: the efficacy. So even if they were interested, they could

706
00:41:38,973 --> 00:41:42,413
Speaker 4: have done an immediate trial, whatever evidence based medicine standards

707
00:41:42,413 --> 00:41:44,533
Speaker 4: they wanted to do, they could have done that, but

708
00:41:44,533 --> 00:41:46,413
Speaker 4: there was no efforts of doing that. There was no

709
00:41:46,573 --> 00:41:51,133
Speaker 4: efforts at looking at available repurpose drugs. Everything was about

710
00:41:51,173 --> 00:41:56,613
Speaker 4: testing pricey patented pharmaceuticals. And so I knew the whole

711
00:41:56,653 --> 00:41:59,133
Speaker 4: gig was up. I mean, eventually I figured it out,

712
00:41:59,173 --> 00:42:02,853
Speaker 4: like repurpose drugs are the Achilles heel. And you know

713
00:42:02,853 --> 00:42:05,453
Speaker 4: what I mean my repurpose right, it's off patent drugs

714
00:42:05,973 --> 00:42:07,933
Speaker 4: or drugs that have been proved for one indication that

715
00:42:07,973 --> 00:42:10,253
Speaker 4: you find now that's really effective in another.

716
00:42:10,813 --> 00:42:12,333
Speaker 3: Whereas Farmer doesn't like that.

717
00:42:12,613 --> 00:42:14,493
Speaker 4: With every disease, they want to come up with new

718
00:42:14,573 --> 00:42:18,573
Speaker 4: stuff that's on patent that is immensely profitable. So they

719
00:42:18,613 --> 00:42:21,773
Speaker 4: do not like off patent repurpose drugs being used to

720
00:42:21,813 --> 00:42:24,453
Speaker 4: treat anything because there's no money in it, which is

721
00:42:24,493 --> 00:42:28,133
Speaker 4: actually false. There is money you could make a profit,

722
00:42:28,613 --> 00:42:33,573
Speaker 4: you just can't make absurd obscene profits that that industry

723
00:42:33,653 --> 00:42:36,853
Speaker 4: is used to. That industry is a criminal syndicate. That's

724
00:42:36,893 --> 00:42:38,933
Speaker 4: also the other thing I've learned in these five years

725
00:42:39,053 --> 00:42:41,573
Speaker 4: is I've studied the pharmacuit industry. I've looked at their

726
00:42:41,693 --> 00:42:46,933
Speaker 4: history of criminal finds, civil finds. They operate with impunity.

727
00:42:47,013 --> 00:42:51,133
Speaker 4: They are constantly being sued and found guilty for the

728
00:42:51,133 --> 00:42:55,413
Speaker 4: most nefarious actions in the world, and yet again people

729
00:42:55,453 --> 00:42:56,653
Speaker 4: seem unaware of that.

730
00:42:59,093 --> 00:43:02,213
Speaker 2: Is it that they don't want to know? Is is

731
00:43:02,293 --> 00:43:04,293
Speaker 2: it that that I want to believe that, I want

732
00:43:04,333 --> 00:43:07,453
Speaker 2: to that, I want to steer themselves off. Course.

733
00:43:08,493 --> 00:43:12,493
Speaker 4: No, No, it's much cruder and coarser and simpler than that,

734
00:43:12,533 --> 00:43:16,733
Speaker 4: and it's much more base than that. They know, they

735
00:43:17,133 --> 00:43:22,213
Speaker 4: absolutely know they are an industry that works for their shareholders,

736
00:43:22,373 --> 00:43:26,173
Speaker 4: not for their patients. They see this as a business marketplace.

737
00:43:26,413 --> 00:43:31,053
Speaker 4: They see competitive threats and they destroy them. Iver Mactin

738
00:43:31,573 --> 00:43:34,813
Speaker 4: was a competitor to all of their products, and it

739
00:43:34,893 --> 00:43:38,013
Speaker 4: got destroyed and they used all the powers that they

740
00:43:38,253 --> 00:43:43,573
Speaker 4: could marshal. Hydroxychloroquin the same, and there's also a lot

741
00:43:43,613 --> 00:43:45,493
Speaker 4: of others, but those were the two most prominent, and

742
00:43:45,533 --> 00:43:48,173
Speaker 4: those are the two that they most deployed their resources

743
00:43:48,173 --> 00:43:48,733
Speaker 4: and attacking.

744
00:43:50,293 --> 00:43:52,013
Speaker 2: What's the I'm trying to think of the name of

745
00:43:52,053 --> 00:43:56,853
Speaker 2: the of the surgeon in Newcastle Hospital in Australia, who's

746
00:43:56,973 --> 00:44:01,373
Speaker 2: who's been mettling this. There are medicos in this part

747
00:44:01,413 --> 00:44:05,053
Speaker 2: of the world, Australasia who have who have made stands.

748
00:44:05,813 --> 00:44:08,933
Speaker 2: And another one I interviewed right at the very beginning

749
00:44:08,973 --> 00:44:14,573
Speaker 2: of all this, and he was so onto it, so well,

750
00:44:14,733 --> 00:44:17,893
Speaker 2: not just convincing, but he was so backed up by

751
00:44:19,013 --> 00:44:23,533
Speaker 2: what he knew and how he knew it that I

752
00:44:23,613 --> 00:44:29,253
Speaker 2: undertook an attempt to introduce him to some well shure,

753
00:44:29,253 --> 00:44:33,693
Speaker 2: we say political people here. No nobody wanted to know. No,

754
00:44:34,013 --> 00:44:37,813
Speaker 2: not interested, not interested. Now but when you but when

755
00:44:37,853 --> 00:44:41,413
Speaker 2: you when you understand, of course, the nature of the

756
00:44:41,413 --> 00:44:43,853
Speaker 2: people who were running the country at that time, starting

757
00:44:43,893 --> 00:44:46,933
Speaker 2: with the top of the beehive, which is where the

758
00:44:46,973 --> 00:44:51,973
Speaker 2: government is the queen bee. If you want, you understand

759
00:44:52,093 --> 00:44:53,373
Speaker 2: why they didn't want to know.

760
00:44:54,813 --> 00:44:58,533
Speaker 4: They all obey. And this is might be trait might

761
00:44:58,573 --> 00:45:01,733
Speaker 4: be a little bit too explosive, but they all obey.

762
00:45:01,773 --> 00:45:04,293
Speaker 4: What I discover is that you know, well, I always

763
00:45:04,413 --> 00:45:09,213
Speaker 4: knew that humans, we are creatures of incentives. We all

764
00:45:09,253 --> 00:45:13,333
Speaker 4: respond to incentives, whether they'd be positive or negative. And

765
00:45:13,373 --> 00:45:16,173
Speaker 4: what I came to find out is that everyone seems

766
00:45:16,213 --> 00:45:19,293
Speaker 4: to work for their masters. Because the one central thing

767
00:45:19,293 --> 00:45:21,293
Speaker 4: that I took away, which is the most disappointing with

768
00:45:21,413 --> 00:45:23,613
Speaker 4: what I learned about humanity and COVID.

769
00:45:24,293 --> 00:45:30,213
Speaker 3: Is that the desire to remaine employed is paramount.

770
00:45:30,573 --> 00:45:34,693
Speaker 4: People will not blow up their careers over ethical.

771
00:45:34,333 --> 00:45:37,213
Speaker 3: Or moral objections even though they know harm.

772
00:45:37,013 --> 00:45:42,853
Speaker 4: Is being caused. You did they protect themselves? Well, here's

773
00:45:42,893 --> 00:45:45,053
Speaker 4: the difference. I don't want to call myself a hero.

774
00:45:45,013 --> 00:45:48,573
Speaker 3: Because really, I'll I'll do that for you.

775
00:45:48,613 --> 00:45:51,333
Speaker 4: No, no, because I don't think it's correct.

776
00:45:51,733 --> 00:45:54,733
Speaker 3: I was just early, so I was naive.

777
00:45:55,493 --> 00:45:58,293
Speaker 4: If I knew what would befall me, I'd like to

778
00:45:58,373 --> 00:46:01,173
Speaker 4: tell you I would have done the same thing. But

779
00:46:01,493 --> 00:46:03,813
Speaker 4: it's different for doctors who came after me, because they

780
00:46:03,853 --> 00:46:07,573
Speaker 4: saw what happened to me, and so they'd have to

781
00:46:08,133 --> 00:46:12,813
Speaker 4: really willingly commit career suicide. Which is when I did

782
00:46:12,813 --> 00:46:15,053
Speaker 4: what I was doing. I didn't think I would get

783
00:46:15,573 --> 00:46:20,813
Speaker 4: career honors or you know, awards, But I didn't think

784
00:46:20,853 --> 00:46:22,333
Speaker 4: what was going to happen to my life was going

785
00:46:22,373 --> 00:46:25,933
Speaker 4: to happen. So I went in with naivete, not heroism.

786
00:46:26,733 --> 00:46:30,333
Speaker 4: That's just my honest assessment. But even when after though,

787
00:46:30,373 --> 00:46:32,893
Speaker 4: I will, I'll give myself credit for this, even when

788
00:46:32,893 --> 00:46:36,253
Speaker 4: my life started going sideways because of that, and which

789
00:46:36,253 --> 00:46:38,973
Speaker 4: shocked me because I'd always been celebrated in my field.

790
00:46:39,093 --> 00:46:40,093
Speaker 3: By the way, I was very well.

791
00:46:40,773 --> 00:46:43,853
Speaker 4: Hopefully this doesn't come across egotisto, but I was a

792
00:46:43,933 --> 00:46:46,213
Speaker 4: very prominent physician in my own right. In my specialty,

793
00:46:46,253 --> 00:46:48,893
Speaker 4: I was known as a global pioneer for a sub

794
00:46:48,933 --> 00:46:52,093
Speaker 4: especially called critical care ulcure snography I'd written a textbook

795
00:46:52,093 --> 00:46:55,093
Speaker 4: that was published in seven languages. I traveled the country

796
00:46:55,093 --> 00:46:56,773
Speaker 4: and world teaching my specialty.

797
00:46:57,893 --> 00:46:58,973
Speaker 2: By the way, don't forget that.

798
00:46:59,333 --> 00:47:02,333
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I was like really well known and well published,

799
00:47:02,373 --> 00:47:05,613
Speaker 4: and you know, I've been recruited by a top research university.

800
00:47:05,653 --> 00:47:08,093
Speaker 4: I was like their head clinician and critical care. I

801
00:47:08,133 --> 00:47:11,333
Speaker 4: was a major clinical leader in that institution. So you know,

802
00:47:11,373 --> 00:47:14,853
Speaker 4: the fall from Grace was pretty far and fast. But

803
00:47:16,213 --> 00:47:19,653
Speaker 4: even as that fall began to happen, I wasn't going

804
00:47:19,733 --> 00:47:21,973
Speaker 4: to change tactics. I was like, oh, you want to

805
00:47:21,973 --> 00:47:24,493
Speaker 4: do this, I'm coming right back at you. And I thought,

806
00:47:24,533 --> 00:47:27,453
Speaker 4: however I could, I had my nonprofit. I just kept

807
00:47:27,453 --> 00:47:30,573
Speaker 4: putting out truths, putting out what I've always done, which

808
00:47:30,613 --> 00:47:33,853
Speaker 4: is teaching what I know, researching what I don't know,

809
00:47:34,013 --> 00:47:37,093
Speaker 4: and then disseminating that. And the more I did that,

810
00:47:37,173 --> 00:47:40,853
Speaker 4: the more stuff happened to me. And look, Layton, you

811
00:47:40,893 --> 00:47:43,733
Speaker 4: were just mentioning a prominent doctor. I guess that prominent

812
00:47:43,733 --> 00:47:46,733
Speaker 4: doctor was also trying to speak truth. Did they get punished?

813
00:47:47,333 --> 00:47:52,693
Speaker 2: To be honest, I can't answer that. He is still

814
00:47:52,853 --> 00:47:54,133
Speaker 2: in his position.

815
00:47:54,573 --> 00:47:57,413
Speaker 4: Okay, But if he was advocating for things that went

816
00:47:57,653 --> 00:48:00,693
Speaker 4: that was dissenting with this, and I'm using air quotes here.

817
00:48:00,813 --> 00:48:03,093
Speaker 3: Consensus that was the other thing.

818
00:48:03,133 --> 00:48:06,853
Speaker 4: I realized that scientific consensus, whether it be in medicine

819
00:48:07,093 --> 00:48:11,773
Speaker 4: or in climate or anything, is a manufactured consensus. You

820
00:48:11,813 --> 00:48:17,333
Speaker 4: cannot reach consensus without deep influence of economic interests, because

821
00:48:17,333 --> 00:48:20,773
Speaker 4: if you come up with a consensus that is scientifically

822
00:48:20,813 --> 00:48:25,333
Speaker 4: inconvenient to the prevailing economic interest, they will make sure

823
00:48:25,413 --> 00:48:29,573
Speaker 4: that doesn't happen. And so now I'm talking a little

824
00:48:29,573 --> 00:48:32,533
Speaker 4: bit outside of medicine, but certainly in medicine. I realized

825
00:48:32,533 --> 00:48:35,453
Speaker 4: that the guidelines that I'd followed for treatment of diseases,

826
00:48:35,573 --> 00:48:39,813
Speaker 4: for everything in medicine is that they're largely controlled and manufactured.

827
00:48:39,853 --> 00:48:40,733
Speaker 3: And so.

828
00:48:42,493 --> 00:48:45,213
Speaker 4: Maybe demoralization is a strong word, maybe it's not, but

829
00:48:45,493 --> 00:48:49,293
Speaker 4: I will say this, I'm I'm a physician, a strained

830
00:48:50,013 --> 00:48:55,693
Speaker 4: estranged from allopathic medicine. I will say I got excommunicated.

831
00:48:56,293 --> 00:48:59,733
Speaker 4: Luckily I'm still in practice. I'm in private practice. I'm

832
00:48:59,733 --> 00:49:03,333
Speaker 4: a fee based I don't take insurance. The sadness of

833
00:49:03,373 --> 00:49:05,693
Speaker 4: that is not everyone can see me or afford to

834
00:49:05,733 --> 00:49:08,093
Speaker 4: see me. But the beauty in that is I get

835
00:49:08,133 --> 00:49:09,533
Speaker 4: to practice medicine as.

836
00:49:09,453 --> 00:49:12,133
Speaker 3: I see fit. I can do whatever I want.

837
00:49:12,173 --> 00:49:14,573
Speaker 4: I can employ different therapies, I can try whatever I

838
00:49:14,573 --> 00:49:18,013
Speaker 4: want to help patients. And I've learned so much about medicine.

839
00:49:18,053 --> 00:49:20,693
Speaker 4: I am so free and more inspired as a physician

840
00:49:20,733 --> 00:49:21,573
Speaker 4: than I've ever been.

841
00:49:22,893 --> 00:49:24,013
Speaker 3: And that's just me today.

842
00:49:24,053 --> 00:49:26,533
Speaker 4: And so part of what I just told you is

843
00:49:27,173 --> 00:49:30,613
Speaker 4: that fall from Grace was really turbulent and difficult. I

844
00:49:30,693 --> 00:49:33,413
Speaker 4: lost income sources along the way. I have three children.

845
00:49:33,573 --> 00:49:35,493
Speaker 4: By the way, we pay for college in this country,

846
00:49:35,533 --> 00:49:38,613
Speaker 4: and it's really expensive. I have three daughters.

847
00:49:38,173 --> 00:49:39,013
Speaker 3: That you know.

848
00:49:39,093 --> 00:49:41,893
Speaker 4: Like when my income got cut off, I mean it

849
00:49:41,933 --> 00:49:43,333
Speaker 4: was scary. I mean I have a house, I have

850
00:49:43,413 --> 00:49:45,853
Speaker 4: a mortgage, I have all those things. But luckily, in

851
00:49:45,893 --> 00:49:48,813
Speaker 4: my case, I landed on my feet. There's many other

852
00:49:48,893 --> 00:49:51,693
Speaker 4: doctors who didn't have the profile or didn't recover the

853
00:49:51,693 --> 00:49:55,933
Speaker 4: way I did, who've lost their licenses and livelihoods for

854
00:49:56,053 --> 00:49:58,973
Speaker 4: doing things as simple as treating people with ivermactin based

855
00:49:58,973 --> 00:50:02,413
Speaker 4: on the science and the rationale for it. And let

856
00:50:02,493 --> 00:50:04,853
Speaker 4: me just go back to the Disinformation Playbook and those

857
00:50:04,893 --> 00:50:08,253
Speaker 4: five five football plays.

858
00:50:08,333 --> 00:50:09,573
Speaker 3: The football play called.

859
00:50:09,413 --> 00:50:12,573
Speaker 4: The blitz, that's when the attackers go after the quarterback.

860
00:50:14,013 --> 00:50:17,453
Speaker 4: The blitz in the Disinformation Playbook is when they go

861
00:50:17,613 --> 00:50:23,493
Speaker 4: after researchers who are producing the science that's inconvenient. And

862
00:50:23,533 --> 00:50:26,173
Speaker 4: that's why when I read that article that day, I

863
00:50:26,333 --> 00:50:28,213
Speaker 4: realized that I'd been blitzed.

864
00:50:28,373 --> 00:50:29,773
Speaker 3: Paul Merrick had been blitzed.

865
00:50:30,173 --> 00:50:33,493
Speaker 4: And there's like decades of evidence of various scientists. When

866
00:50:33,493 --> 00:50:36,893
Speaker 4: you come out with a contrarian opinion, you get blitzed.

867
00:50:37,573 --> 00:50:40,893
Speaker 4: And I saw doctors all over the world, Canada, US,

868
00:50:40,893 --> 00:50:43,413
Speaker 4: every and by the way, I have devoted immense amounts

869
00:50:43,453 --> 00:50:46,613
Speaker 4: of time to defending them in their core cases, in

870
00:50:46,653 --> 00:50:49,333
Speaker 4: their hearings with medical boards where they're trying to get

871
00:50:49,333 --> 00:50:52,853
Speaker 4: their licenses, trying to argue for them, showing that the

872
00:50:52,933 --> 00:50:56,973
Speaker 4: science supported everything they did. I will tell you it

873
00:50:57,013 --> 00:51:00,533
Speaker 4: doesn't work. That's the other thing. They weaponized, not only

874
00:51:00,573 --> 00:51:04,093
Speaker 4: the media, the journals, the agencies, but also the medical

875
00:51:04,133 --> 00:51:07,773
Speaker 4: boards and so doctors with contrarian aprisonances, no matter how

876
00:51:07,853 --> 00:51:11,733
Speaker 4: scientifically base it is, they will go after you. Keep

877
00:51:11,773 --> 00:51:15,053
Speaker 4: it in keep in line, or you're gone. And that's

878
00:51:15,093 --> 00:51:17,933
Speaker 4: the sadness because the persecution of me and my colleagues

879
00:51:17,933 --> 00:51:20,733
Speaker 4: and what happened to our careers, I don't think it

880
00:51:20,773 --> 00:51:23,293
Speaker 4: was meant to personally punish us. It was to make

881
00:51:23,533 --> 00:51:27,213
Speaker 4: us an example because we were the most public and

882
00:51:27,253 --> 00:51:29,693
Speaker 4: they wanted to take us down. And I think that's

883
00:51:29,733 --> 00:51:31,933
Speaker 4: to send a message to any other doctor who wants

884
00:51:31,933 --> 00:51:35,613
Speaker 4: to step out of line. And it worked, and it works. Yeah,

885
00:51:35,813 --> 00:51:37,573
Speaker 4: you have com client doctors all over the world.

886
00:51:37,973 --> 00:51:40,293
Speaker 2: Now, now it would be a good time to just

887
00:51:40,413 --> 00:51:41,173
Speaker 2: change gears.

888
00:51:41,933 --> 00:51:42,213
Speaker 3: Sure.

889
00:51:42,853 --> 00:51:45,733
Speaker 2: The story of Andy Hill and the World Health Organization,

890
00:51:46,053 --> 00:51:49,093
Speaker 2: Oh boy. I found this to be because I haven't

891
00:51:49,133 --> 00:51:52,413
Speaker 2: read the entire book, and I've dipped in and out

892
00:51:52,413 --> 00:51:55,213
Speaker 2: of what interested me, and I found this chapter to

893
00:51:55,293 --> 00:51:57,813
Speaker 2: be the most fascinating.

894
00:51:59,133 --> 00:51:59,373
Speaker 3: Yep.

895
00:52:00,573 --> 00:52:02,453
Speaker 2: If you don't if you don't like that, you don't

896
00:52:02,493 --> 00:52:05,373
Speaker 2: agree with me, then that's only because I haven't really

897
00:52:05,533 --> 00:52:07,933
Speaker 2: read some of the others that Well.

898
00:52:08,333 --> 00:52:09,333
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, here's the thing.

899
00:52:09,373 --> 00:52:11,653
Speaker 4: I'm just going to go back to the Disinformation Playbook, right,

900
00:52:11,653 --> 00:52:14,693
Speaker 4: So it's five plays each and every one of them

901
00:52:14,693 --> 00:52:18,773
Speaker 4: are devastating and I and as you probably can tell,

902
00:52:18,853 --> 00:52:22,573
Speaker 4: like my book is thematically structured around that article to

903
00:52:22,573 --> 00:52:26,053
Speaker 4: called the Disinformation Playbook. Because when I got that email

904
00:52:26,093 --> 00:52:29,813
Speaker 4: that day and I read that article, I realized that's

905
00:52:29,853 --> 00:52:32,173
Speaker 4: what's going on in the world, and I said, I

906
00:52:32,213 --> 00:52:35,693
Speaker 4: committed myself on that day to write a book as

907
00:52:35,733 --> 00:52:40,973
Speaker 4: a case example of how disinformation campaigns are executed in practice.

908
00:52:41,013 --> 00:52:43,453
Speaker 4: I wanted to do like a case study so that

909
00:52:43,493 --> 00:52:46,093
Speaker 4: everyone in world could read it and that they would

910
00:52:46,093 --> 00:52:48,973
Speaker 4: then be immune to this immense amount of propaganda and

911
00:52:49,013 --> 00:52:52,573
Speaker 4: censorship which creates these things. And one of those tactics, right,

912
00:52:52,653 --> 00:52:55,493
Speaker 4: we talked about the blitz. The fake is when they

913
00:52:55,493 --> 00:52:58,173
Speaker 4: do these predetermined trials. They manipulate trials to have a

914
00:52:58,173 --> 00:53:01,613
Speaker 4: certain result. But Andy Hill is the example I used

915
00:53:01,693 --> 00:53:06,533
Speaker 4: for something called the diversion where they co opt officials

916
00:53:07,293 --> 00:53:10,213
Speaker 4: and and and.

917
00:53:09,373 --> 00:53:10,813
Speaker 3: Andy Hill was that example.

918
00:53:11,693 --> 00:53:15,693
Speaker 4: So any Hill was the lead researcher for the WHO,

919
00:53:16,813 --> 00:53:20,853
Speaker 4: and he was in charge of a team that was

920
00:53:20,853 --> 00:53:26,733
Speaker 4: supposed to research all repurposed off patent drugs that could

921
00:53:26,773 --> 00:53:30,253
Speaker 4: potentially be used in COVID. And when I discovered this

922
00:53:30,493 --> 00:53:35,493
Speaker 4: a week after my ivermactin testimony the conference organized because

923
00:53:35,533 --> 00:53:37,973
Speaker 4: we both presented the same conference, I said, who's this

924
00:53:38,013 --> 00:53:41,333
Speaker 4: guy researching ivromatic? Because he had more data than I had,

925
00:53:41,573 --> 00:53:43,893
Speaker 4: and he had better data than I had, and so

926
00:53:43,973 --> 00:53:45,853
Speaker 4: I reached out to him, and he and I quickly

927
00:53:45,893 --> 00:53:46,773
Speaker 4: became collegial.

928
00:53:46,893 --> 00:53:49,613
Speaker 3: He was a really nice guy. We were both invested.

929
00:53:49,693 --> 00:53:52,693
Speaker 4: We were both really impressed with the data around ivermactin,

930
00:53:53,133 --> 00:53:57,213
Speaker 4: and I remained in contact with him for months and

931
00:53:57,253 --> 00:54:01,133
Speaker 4: he was very supportive. The problem was the more supportive

932
00:54:01,133 --> 00:54:04,373
Speaker 4: he got. He gave a talk in South Africa on

933
00:54:04,493 --> 00:54:07,413
Speaker 4: Zoom one day, and he was like basically telling the world,

934
00:54:07,533 --> 00:54:11,973
Speaker 4: get ready, get your supplies of ivermectin together, and you

935
00:54:12,013 --> 00:54:14,093
Speaker 4: know this is going to be the treatment.

936
00:54:13,733 --> 00:54:14,613
Speaker 3: For early COVID.

937
00:54:15,253 --> 00:54:18,213
Speaker 4: The day he gave that lecture, two days later, he

938
00:54:18,333 --> 00:54:22,293
Speaker 4: told me that his sponsors at the WHO told him

939
00:54:22,333 --> 00:54:27,853
Speaker 4: he's not allowed to speak publicly anymore. And after that

940
00:54:27,973 --> 00:54:32,093
Speaker 4: day his behaviors started to get very strange.

941
00:54:32,693 --> 00:54:37,493
Speaker 3: It was not the same guy I knew he ended up.

942
00:54:38,293 --> 00:54:41,973
Speaker 4: He ended up posting a draft of his paper which

943
00:54:42,013 --> 00:54:44,813
Speaker 4: reviewed all of the trials, and there was so much

944
00:54:44,893 --> 00:54:49,373
Speaker 4: nonsense in it that didn't match the discussions we'd had

945
00:54:49,493 --> 00:54:52,533
Speaker 4: or our own interprets of the data that me and

946
00:54:52,613 --> 00:54:55,373
Speaker 4: Paul we told him, We said, we think you're doing

947
00:54:55,413 --> 00:54:56,493
Speaker 4: scientific his conduct.

948
00:54:56,533 --> 00:54:58,933
Speaker 3: We don't know why. We peer reviewed his paper.

949
00:54:59,013 --> 00:55:02,053
Speaker 4: We suggested the additions that he should make to make

950
00:55:02,093 --> 00:55:02,853
Speaker 4: it more correct.

951
00:55:03,373 --> 00:55:04,093
Speaker 3: He ignored it.

952
00:55:04,213 --> 00:55:07,453
Speaker 4: He left it up on a preprint server and then

953
00:55:07,453 --> 00:55:11,333
Speaker 4: he went even f and he just basically he stopped.

954
00:55:10,933 --> 00:55:12,853
Speaker 3: Sharing data, started doing all these things.

955
00:55:12,853 --> 00:55:15,653
Speaker 4: And then Tess Lowry from the UK was another colleague

956
00:55:15,693 --> 00:55:18,893
Speaker 4: of mine, caught him on a zoom and basically attacked

957
00:55:18,933 --> 00:55:20,933
Speaker 4: him for the same thing. What are you doing, any

958
00:55:21,013 --> 00:55:23,653
Speaker 4: Why are you writing these things when it doesn't match

959
00:55:23,693 --> 00:55:26,493
Speaker 4: the data that we have, And he basically admitted that

960
00:55:26,533 --> 00:55:30,213
Speaker 4: he was under pressure from his sponsors, and basically so

961
00:55:30,333 --> 00:55:33,613
Speaker 4: he got co opted because he's he's a research who

962
00:55:33,613 --> 00:55:37,293
Speaker 4: has long worked for international healthcare agency. His whole livelihood

963
00:55:37,373 --> 00:55:40,973
Speaker 4: is getting grants to do research, and whoever was funding

964
00:55:41,053 --> 00:55:44,133
Speaker 4: him did not like what he was finding and they

965
00:55:44,173 --> 00:55:48,173
Speaker 4: wanted him to shut up. And that's kind of the

966
00:55:48,213 --> 00:55:51,013
Speaker 4: main point of that that story with Any. And I

967
00:55:51,093 --> 00:55:54,413
Speaker 4: stopped talking to him because well, he also stopped talking

968
00:55:54,453 --> 00:55:56,173
Speaker 4: to me because I realized he got captured.

969
00:55:56,773 --> 00:56:00,093
Speaker 2: That was one of the aspects of the book I found.

970
00:56:00,493 --> 00:56:03,293
Speaker 2: You're reading away happily and all of a sudden, your

971
00:56:03,333 --> 00:56:06,853
Speaker 2: attention gets stolen from you by something like this, this

972
00:56:06,973 --> 00:56:13,733
Speaker 2: video that that doctor Tess Laurie Yeah produced And so

973
00:56:13,853 --> 00:56:16,773
Speaker 2: I went off and found it. It wasn't easy because

974
00:56:16,813 --> 00:56:19,053
Speaker 2: it wasn't where it was supposed to be, but I

975
00:56:19,133 --> 00:56:22,053
Speaker 2: dug it out and it wasn't that long. I think

976
00:56:22,053 --> 00:56:24,813
Speaker 2: it was twenty minutes, maybe.

977
00:56:26,293 --> 00:56:26,373
Speaker 3: Ed.

978
00:56:26,413 --> 00:56:32,453
Speaker 2: It was fascinating watching this fella squirm, squirm, that's what

979
00:56:32,533 --> 00:56:36,333
Speaker 2: he was. He was squirming, squirming. He looked so uncomfortable,

980
00:56:36,933 --> 00:56:39,813
Speaker 2: He looked so uncovering. Although he tried to defend himself

981
00:56:39,813 --> 00:56:45,333
Speaker 2: in words, his body and his you know, movements and

982
00:56:45,533 --> 00:56:47,653
Speaker 2: facial expression did not lie.

983
00:56:47,813 --> 00:56:53,613
Speaker 4: He and Tess was fierce. I mean, Test showed who

984
00:56:53,693 --> 00:56:56,133
Speaker 4: she was in that conversation. I mean, he was somewhat

985
00:56:56,133 --> 00:56:58,253
Speaker 4: of a colleague, we'd gotten to know him a little bit.

986
00:56:58,773 --> 00:57:02,973
Speaker 4: But she was unremitting. I mean she just really said,

987
00:57:02,973 --> 00:57:06,333
Speaker 4: what are you doing? I mean, there's fifteen thousand people

988
00:57:06,693 --> 00:57:11,653
Speaker 4: dying a day in the world and you're putting out

989
00:57:11,693 --> 00:57:15,853
Speaker 4: this you know, you're changing the science around ivermectin and how.

990
00:57:15,693 --> 00:57:18,613
Speaker 3: You present it, Like how can you sleep at night?

991
00:57:18,693 --> 00:57:19,533
Speaker 3: Is what she said to him.

992
00:57:20,293 --> 00:57:23,493
Speaker 2: So after that, after she did that, and you haven't

993
00:57:23,493 --> 00:57:26,213
Speaker 2: spoken to him, what eventuated?

994
00:57:27,253 --> 00:57:29,093
Speaker 3: Well, actually after she did that.

995
00:57:29,173 --> 00:57:31,733
Speaker 4: She never showed me the video at the time, but

996
00:57:31,933 --> 00:57:34,693
Speaker 4: she broke off all relationships.

997
00:57:34,013 --> 00:57:35,253
Speaker 3: With any before I did.

998
00:57:35,933 --> 00:57:38,533
Speaker 4: I continue to have relationship with him because I was

999
00:57:38,573 --> 00:57:40,853
Speaker 4: trying to do good cop while she was bad cop,

1000
00:57:41,333 --> 00:57:43,853
Speaker 4: because he was feeding me data that I thought was

1001
00:57:43,893 --> 00:57:46,973
Speaker 4: really important, because you know what his job was to

1002
00:57:47,093 --> 00:57:50,453
Speaker 4: search all of the clinical trial registries in the world,

1003
00:57:50,933 --> 00:57:56,773
Speaker 4: identify all of the randomized control trials on any particular medicine.

1004
00:57:56,853 --> 00:58:00,173
Speaker 4: And by the time he got to ivermectin, they'd already

1005
00:58:00,213 --> 00:58:03,453
Speaker 4: researched hydroxtic cork and all these other things, and so

1006
00:58:03,613 --> 00:58:06,893
Speaker 4: he had knowledge, and he was in contact and communication

1007
00:58:07,053 --> 00:58:10,733
Speaker 4: with investigators with ongoing trials, and he was like, letting

1008
00:58:10,733 --> 00:58:12,493
Speaker 4: me know at some of this data show, which is

1009
00:58:12,573 --> 00:58:16,213
Speaker 4: by the way, not really scientifically rigorous. You shouldn't be

1010
00:58:16,213 --> 00:58:19,853
Speaker 4: sharing data of ongoing trials, but he was getting early

1011
00:58:19,893 --> 00:58:22,893
Speaker 4: reports of either trial results or ongoing data, and so

1012
00:58:24,253 --> 00:58:26,373
Speaker 4: I thought it was a productive relationship for me because

1013
00:58:26,373 --> 00:58:29,013
Speaker 4: I was just putting stuff out there around ivermactin.

1014
00:58:29,133 --> 00:58:33,133
Speaker 3: But eventually, I can't remember how our.

1015
00:58:32,973 --> 00:58:38,333
Speaker 4: Relationship ended, but he ended his contract with WHO. Then

1016
00:58:38,373 --> 00:58:44,493
Speaker 4: he published a wickedly positive meta analysis which departed from

1017
00:58:44,493 --> 00:58:47,333
Speaker 4: his work with WHO, because when he presented his data,

1018
00:58:47,533 --> 00:58:50,373
Speaker 4: Who the WHO did not recommend ivermactin.

1019
00:58:50,693 --> 00:58:52,453
Speaker 3: And that's a whole other scandal.

1020
00:58:52,853 --> 00:58:55,693
Speaker 4: What they did with the ivernmatin recommendation because the data

1021
00:58:55,693 --> 00:58:59,573
Speaker 4: that he presented them overwhelmingly supported the use of iromactin,

1022
00:59:00,213 --> 00:59:05,653
Speaker 4: But they ended up throwing out tens of trials that

1023
00:59:05,773 --> 00:59:08,693
Speaker 4: he had a mass that met their protocol for include usion.

1024
00:59:08,813 --> 00:59:11,253
Speaker 4: They threw them out saying, oh, this is what's wrong

1025
00:59:11,293 --> 00:59:13,373
Speaker 4: with this one and that one. And even after throwing

1026
00:59:13,413 --> 00:59:17,213
Speaker 4: everything out, they found an eighty two percent reduction immortality.

1027
00:59:17,413 --> 00:59:20,613
Speaker 4: But then the WHO labeled it as low quality evidence.

1028
00:59:21,173 --> 00:59:24,013
Speaker 4: And as a result, because it's such low quality, they said,

1029
00:59:24,013 --> 00:59:26,653
Speaker 4: most people in the world would not want to be

1030
00:59:26,733 --> 00:59:30,853
Speaker 4: treated with something based on low quality evidence outside of

1031
00:59:30,853 --> 00:59:34,653
Speaker 4: a clinical trial. And so the WHO is official recommendation

1032
00:59:34,693 --> 00:59:36,853
Speaker 4: from March of twenty twenty one which do not use

1033
00:59:36,893 --> 00:59:38,613
Speaker 4: outside of a clinical trial. And if you read the

1034
00:59:38,613 --> 00:59:43,613
Speaker 4: wording of that recommendation, it there's nothing more that infuriates

1035
00:59:43,653 --> 00:59:46,013
Speaker 4: me to this day than reading that document because they

1036
00:59:46,013 --> 00:59:49,293
Speaker 4: basically say, there's a paragraph in that document wich I

1037
00:59:49,293 --> 00:59:52,133
Speaker 4: think is really important that this world be aware of.

1038
00:59:53,173 --> 01:00:00,533
Speaker 4: It goes as follows. The Clinical Development Guidelines Group has

1039
01:00:01,133 --> 01:00:07,573
Speaker 4: found that although the data is in support of ivermectin use,

1040
01:00:08,333 --> 01:00:12,773
Speaker 4: it is of such low certainty that most well informed

1041
01:00:12,773 --> 01:00:15,053
Speaker 4: citizens of the world would not want to be treated

1042
01:00:15,093 --> 01:00:18,253
Speaker 4: with it outside of a trial. And Layton, can I

1043
01:00:18,333 --> 01:00:21,493
Speaker 4: just give you my interpretation of that sentence. That means

1044
01:00:21,813 --> 01:00:25,493
Speaker 4: in the real world sense, I'm picturing myself as a

1045
01:00:25,533 --> 01:00:29,093
Speaker 4: patient ill with COVID in a hospital room on six

1046
01:00:29,213 --> 01:00:33,853
Speaker 4: leaders of nasal flow canula oxygen, breathing at thirty times

1047
01:00:33,853 --> 01:00:38,373
Speaker 4: a minute, feeling terrible, and I'm declining, and a doctor

1048
01:00:38,373 --> 01:00:41,453
Speaker 4: comes into my room and says to me, doctor Corey,

1049
01:00:42,093 --> 01:00:43,173
Speaker 4: there's this medicine.

1050
01:00:43,893 --> 01:00:45,213
Speaker 3: It's one of the safest.

1051
01:00:44,813 --> 01:00:49,373
Speaker 4: Medicines in history, and based on the best available evidence,

1052
01:00:49,613 --> 01:00:52,053
Speaker 4: it shows that your chance of dying will be reduced

1053
01:00:52,053 --> 01:00:54,813
Speaker 4: by eighty two percent, because that's also in their documents,

1054
01:00:54,813 --> 01:00:58,213
Speaker 4: statistically significant eighty two percent reduction immortality if you use

1055
01:00:58,253 --> 01:01:01,653
Speaker 4: ivermathin So let's say this imaginary doctor would tell me that,

1056
01:01:02,093 --> 01:01:05,693
Speaker 4: and then he would say, but the evidence is it's

1057
01:01:05,813 --> 01:01:07,333
Speaker 4: low certainty.

1058
01:01:07,853 --> 01:01:09,533
Speaker 3: Would you like to be treated with it?

1059
01:01:10,053 --> 01:01:13,293
Speaker 4: So that means that most well informed citizens would respond,

1060
01:01:14,453 --> 01:01:17,853
Speaker 4: you know, because the evidence is of such low certainty, doctor,

1061
01:01:18,493 --> 01:01:21,813
Speaker 4: I'm not comfortably being treated outside of a clinical trial.

1062
01:01:22,573 --> 01:01:25,893
Speaker 4: Did you understand the absurdity of what we're talking about? Yep,

1063
01:01:27,613 --> 01:01:29,413
Speaker 4: that's literally the world we live in. So when we

1064
01:01:29,453 --> 01:01:31,413
Speaker 4: go back to the old pier to new pier, like,

1065
01:01:31,813 --> 01:01:36,333
Speaker 4: I'm watching an organization that's supposed toly shepherd the public

1066
01:01:36,373 --> 01:01:44,013
Speaker 4: health of the citizens of the world use this brazenly clownish, absurd, illogical, impractical,

1067
01:01:44,653 --> 01:01:51,253
Speaker 4: and inhuman reasoning for one reason only to not recommend ifromactin.

1068
01:01:51,373 --> 01:01:54,173
Speaker 4: And why don't they want to do that because of

1069
01:01:54,213 --> 01:01:58,333
Speaker 4: the people who control the WHO. It's controlled by Big

1070
01:01:58,373 --> 01:02:03,053
Speaker 4: Pharma and Bill Gates, who has immense interest in Big Pharma.

1071
01:02:03,133 --> 01:02:07,653
Speaker 4: So of course the WHO it's not a public health organization,

1072
01:02:08,093 --> 01:02:11,573
Speaker 4: it's it's literally run by the pharmaceutical industry, and so

1073
01:02:11,813 --> 01:02:14,813
Speaker 4: of course they not going to promote a repurposed drug.

1074
01:02:14,853 --> 01:02:17,893
Speaker 4: But the contortions and the clownishness that they had to

1075
01:02:17,973 --> 01:02:21,813
Speaker 4: go to in order to avoid doing that is so disturbing.

1076
01:02:22,613 --> 01:02:24,893
Speaker 2: Is so disturbing strong enough.

1077
01:02:25,933 --> 01:02:29,413
Speaker 4: No I could I probably I'm a New Yorker, so

1078
01:02:29,693 --> 01:02:31,813
Speaker 4: I then probably go into curse words.

1079
01:02:32,533 --> 01:02:36,013
Speaker 3: But it's funny though. Actually I love how you just

1080
01:02:36,053 --> 01:02:36,813
Speaker 3: asked that. Ladies.

1081
01:02:36,813 --> 01:02:39,173
Speaker 4: You know why because when I talk about these topics,

1082
01:02:39,213 --> 01:02:43,133
Speaker 4: I sometimes use the phrase I've run out of descriptors,

1083
01:02:43,453 --> 01:02:50,613
Speaker 4: Like I don't know how to describe this stuff. Evil, inhumane, corrupt, absurd, brazen, clownish.

1084
01:02:50,733 --> 01:02:54,133
Speaker 4: I don't even know how to describe it. But it's dystopian,

1085
01:02:54,253 --> 01:02:55,893
Speaker 4: is the word that's frightening.

1086
01:02:57,053 --> 01:02:57,293
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1087
01:02:57,413 --> 01:03:01,533
Speaker 2: By the way, the interview I did right back in

1088
01:03:01,573 --> 01:03:03,213
Speaker 2: the very early days of this and I said I

1089
01:03:03,213 --> 01:03:05,653
Speaker 2: couldn't think of his name, Thomas BARROTI.

1090
01:03:06,333 --> 01:03:08,213
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, Tom Bardi, Sure, I know Tom.

1091
01:03:08,493 --> 01:03:11,373
Speaker 4: Yeah, And Tom Tom was I mean, he was on

1092
01:03:11,453 --> 01:03:15,173
Speaker 4: the hydroxychloroquin very early. He knew that one, Yes, he knew.

1093
01:03:15,253 --> 01:03:18,173
Speaker 4: I'vever met them words. And and here's the other point.

1094
01:03:18,773 --> 01:03:22,293
Speaker 4: He's another example like a Paul Marek less so a

1095
01:03:22,413 --> 01:03:27,013
Speaker 4: Pierre Corey, but a literally globally prominent physician who had

1096
01:03:27,013 --> 01:03:31,013
Speaker 4: reached the heights of medicine, celebrated beyond belief, one of

1097
01:03:31,053 --> 01:03:37,293
Speaker 4: the most highly published erudite you know, brilliant physicians who

1098
01:03:37,373 --> 01:03:40,213
Speaker 4: got taken down for his opinions in COVID because they

1099
01:03:40,253 --> 01:03:44,573
Speaker 4: were contrarian to the objective. It doesn't matter how how

1100
01:03:44,733 --> 01:03:47,733
Speaker 4: high you rise, they can take anyone down.

1101
01:03:48,293 --> 01:03:51,133
Speaker 2: I've got to turn this round on to you again. Yeah,

1102
01:03:51,213 --> 01:03:57,173
Speaker 2: you got taken down, but now you're now you're thriving. Yes,

1103
01:03:57,773 --> 01:03:59,773
Speaker 2: and you gave us, you gave us, you gave us

1104
01:03:59,773 --> 01:04:02,013
Speaker 2: part of an explanation for that. I think because you're

1105
01:04:02,013 --> 01:04:06,893
Speaker 2: independent and you can charge, and you apologize for people

1106
01:04:06,973 --> 01:04:09,133
Speaker 2: who can't see you. And I saw some thing on

1107
01:04:09,133 --> 01:04:13,173
Speaker 2: ONYX I think yesterday had said you charged twelve hundred

1108
01:04:13,333 --> 01:04:17,853
Speaker 2: thirteen hundred dollars or something and that was abusiful. People

1109
01:04:17,933 --> 01:04:19,613
Speaker 2: like comments without understanding what the.

1110
01:04:19,853 --> 01:04:21,573
Speaker 3: Can I talk about that for a second?

1111
01:04:21,653 --> 01:04:22,613
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a lot.

1112
01:04:23,493 --> 01:04:28,933
Speaker 5: Because it's so It saddens me so much because people

1113
01:04:29,093 --> 01:04:33,253
Speaker 5: think that if I charged twelve hundred dollars that I'm

1114
01:04:33,333 --> 01:04:35,453
Speaker 5: getting the twelve hundred dollars.

1115
01:04:35,493 --> 01:04:38,013
Speaker 3: Like, people don't understand how businesses work.

1116
01:04:38,773 --> 01:04:44,813
Speaker 4: My practice has twenty five employees, We have teams of nurses.

1117
01:04:44,853 --> 01:04:48,733
Speaker 4: We do proactive follow up. Me and my partner have

1118
01:04:48,853 --> 01:04:51,893
Speaker 4: committed to being the best employers we can. We very

1119
01:04:51,893 --> 01:04:56,533
Speaker 4: early on, before we even financially we were barely financially solvent,

1120
01:04:56,653 --> 01:05:00,013
Speaker 4: we offered them health insurance. Now we offer them retirement

1121
01:05:00,013 --> 01:05:03,573
Speaker 4: plans where we match. Like, I do not make a

1122
01:05:03,573 --> 01:05:07,093
Speaker 4: lot of money from my practice, I really don't. But

1123
01:05:07,213 --> 01:05:09,933
Speaker 4: people look at the fee we charge and they think

1124
01:05:09,973 --> 01:05:12,213
Speaker 4: that I'm laughing all the way to the bank, or

1125
01:05:12,213 --> 01:05:15,453
Speaker 4: I'm retiring on a Hawaiian island. The economics of a

1126
01:05:15,533 --> 01:05:21,613
Speaker 4: medical practice that survives only on consultation is impossible to

1127
01:05:21,653 --> 01:05:24,133
Speaker 4: calculate because you have to understand how the medical system

1128
01:05:24,173 --> 01:05:24,893
Speaker 4: makes its money.

1129
01:05:25,493 --> 01:05:27,533
Speaker 3: They have massive profit.

1130
01:05:27,293 --> 01:05:30,693
Speaker 4: Centers that a practice where it's all our sweat and tears,

1131
01:05:30,773 --> 01:05:33,053
Speaker 4: like I spend immense amount of times with my patients.

1132
01:05:33,813 --> 01:05:35,653
Speaker 3: We don't have imaging centers.

1133
01:05:35,693 --> 01:05:38,693
Speaker 4: I don't have blood labs where I can charge dollars,

1134
01:05:38,733 --> 01:05:42,933
Speaker 4: and I don't have surgeons and procedures or imaging. You know,

1135
01:05:43,053 --> 01:05:46,693
Speaker 4: that's how the economics of healthcare works. And so it

1136
01:05:46,853 --> 01:05:49,253
Speaker 4: saddens me that people look at a fee that I

1137
01:05:49,413 --> 01:05:52,693
Speaker 4: charge and they think that I'm overcharging. To be honest,

1138
01:05:52,893 --> 01:05:56,373
Speaker 4: I know what other folks, and I don't want to

1139
01:05:56,373 --> 01:05:59,693
Speaker 4: call us alternative or integrative, but I will tell you

1140
01:05:59,813 --> 01:06:02,453
Speaker 4: we are the most reasonably priced that I've seen.

1141
01:06:02,533 --> 01:06:03,213
Speaker 1: I have.

1142
01:06:03,733 --> 01:06:06,093
Speaker 3: I know colleagues that I like and enjoy respect.

1143
01:06:06,693 --> 01:06:09,733
Speaker 4: They charge an immense amount of money for what they do,

1144
01:06:10,133 --> 01:06:13,253
Speaker 4: far far higher than what I do. We do pragmatic

1145
01:06:13,333 --> 01:06:17,373
Speaker 4: pricing and we deliver excellent care. And again, if this

1146
01:06:17,453 --> 01:06:21,853
Speaker 4: comes across as defensive, it's somewhat defenses, but it's also

1147
01:06:21,973 --> 01:06:25,253
Speaker 4: trying to explain to people that you don't understand that

1148
01:06:25,253 --> 01:06:29,133
Speaker 4: that fee is not like goes into my wallet by

1149
01:06:29,133 --> 01:06:32,853
Speaker 4: the time against my wallet, it's like a fifteenth of

1150
01:06:32,893 --> 01:06:35,613
Speaker 4: what that is. I bet you wish that is anyway, Yeah,

1151
01:06:35,733 --> 01:06:38,133
Speaker 4: I wish it did. But and you know I could.

1152
01:06:38,173 --> 01:06:42,373
Speaker 4: And here's the thing. I could probably charge fifteen thousand

1153
01:06:42,533 --> 01:06:45,093
Speaker 4: or I don't. I probably couldn't, but three thousand of

1154
01:06:45,133 --> 01:06:48,533
Speaker 4: consultation five thousand, I don't. We're just trying to make

1155
01:06:49,213 --> 01:06:53,173
Speaker 4: a decent salary while delivering excellent care of supporting our employees.

1156
01:06:53,253 --> 01:06:55,613
Speaker 3: That's all we are. Are just a normal business.

1157
01:06:55,973 --> 01:07:01,493
Speaker 2: Let's go back to public health officials. You'd be familiar

1158
01:07:01,573 --> 01:07:02,853
Speaker 2: with Ashley Bluefield.

1159
01:07:04,693 --> 01:07:08,173
Speaker 4: Heard the name that's in New Zealand, right, Yes, yeah,

1160
01:07:08,693 --> 01:07:10,333
Speaker 4: I'm You're all the same. By the way, I don't

1161
01:07:10,333 --> 01:07:11,293
Speaker 4: need to know their names.

1162
01:07:12,133 --> 01:07:17,173
Speaker 2: Okay, but Ashley bloom well, Ashley Bloomfield.

1163
01:07:16,773 --> 01:07:19,533
Speaker 3: Maybe unless unless you're telling me this one stood out. Okay,

1164
01:07:19,613 --> 01:07:20,693
Speaker 3: Well he did.

1165
01:07:20,973 --> 01:07:23,533
Speaker 2: He stood out because because he don't know, because he

1166
01:07:23,733 --> 01:07:26,533
Speaker 2: dumped on Ivermecton and.

1167
01:07:26,973 --> 01:07:29,293
Speaker 3: Standing out leading Hold on, let me check you on that.

1168
01:07:29,373 --> 01:07:31,653
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, we're not No, we're not there yet.

1169
01:07:31,653 --> 01:07:32,333
Speaker 2: I haven't finished.

1170
01:07:32,333 --> 01:07:33,133
Speaker 3: Okay, good.

1171
01:07:34,533 --> 01:07:38,213
Speaker 2: He dumped on Ivermecton and kept dumping on Ivermecton and

1172
01:07:38,253 --> 01:07:43,813
Speaker 2: that really pissed off a fairly large number of people

1173
01:07:43,893 --> 01:07:46,733
Speaker 2: in this country. The sad admit is that he got

1174
01:07:46,773 --> 01:07:51,693
Speaker 2: a knighthood at the end of this, and the Prime

1175
01:07:51,693 --> 01:07:55,893
Speaker 2: Minister got a damehood. And and I've asked this question

1176
01:07:56,213 --> 01:08:00,853
Speaker 2: of other people on vodcast on podcasts, and I'm going

1177
01:08:00,893 --> 01:08:02,813
Speaker 2: to ask you. I wasn't going to actually because I've

1178
01:08:02,813 --> 01:08:05,573
Speaker 2: asked it enough, but I'm going to ask you, would

1179
01:08:05,613 --> 01:08:09,653
Speaker 2: you support a move and I'm not, but would you

1180
01:08:10,093 --> 01:08:13,773
Speaker 2: support a move to remove those honors, so called honors

1181
01:08:13,973 --> 01:08:17,573
Speaker 2: from people who did such damage to their country?

1182
01:08:18,733 --> 01:08:21,413
Speaker 3: Of course I would, of course I would.

1183
01:08:21,653 --> 01:08:24,253
Speaker 4: That that goes back to my adjectives of clown world,

1184
01:08:24,333 --> 01:08:28,293
Speaker 4: bizarro world. I mean, people are celebrated for participating in

1185
01:08:28,333 --> 01:08:33,213
Speaker 4: a humanitarian catastrophe. They're getting awards and united and damed.

1186
01:08:33,253 --> 01:08:35,693
Speaker 4: I mean that, what world are we living in?

1187
01:08:36,493 --> 01:08:38,413
Speaker 3: And you know, you know what? You know what this

1188
01:08:38,453 --> 01:08:44,333
Speaker 3: triggers in my mind, Laydon, is that what what COVID was.

1189
01:08:44,813 --> 01:08:47,093
Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot of things, but Ultimately, in

1190
01:08:47,133 --> 01:08:52,653
Speaker 4: my mind, it was a war of information, and those

1191
01:08:52,733 --> 01:08:56,413
Speaker 4: that control the information sources and the dissemination of information,

1192
01:08:57,493 --> 01:09:03,693
Speaker 4: they disseminated consistently corrupted information in the forms of propaganda,

1193
01:09:03,813 --> 01:09:07,773
Speaker 4: and then they censored helpful, life saving information.

1194
01:09:08,453 --> 01:09:10,493
Speaker 3: It caused the humanitarian catastrophe.

1195
01:09:10,613 --> 01:09:14,133
Speaker 4: And and so to celebrate those that were practitioners of

1196
01:09:14,173 --> 01:09:15,133
Speaker 4: it is.

1197
01:09:16,613 --> 01:09:17,733
Speaker 3: It saddening?

1198
01:09:17,813 --> 01:09:21,253
Speaker 4: Is one word? Again, I got to break down my fassaurs. Yes,

1199
01:09:21,613 --> 01:09:24,533
Speaker 4: but it's absurd, absurd, absurd.

1200
01:09:25,333 --> 01:09:28,733
Speaker 2: Okay, but that's not the end of Ashley Bloomfield. He's

1201
01:09:28,773 --> 01:09:30,933
Speaker 2: now with the He's now with the w Y Show,

1202
01:09:32,453 --> 01:09:36,013
Speaker 2: and and the w A Show is trying to corral

1203
01:09:36,093 --> 01:09:38,813
Speaker 2: the world with regards as you would be well aware

1204
01:09:39,333 --> 01:09:43,173
Speaker 2: with regard to their plan for the future. And and

1205
01:09:43,213 --> 01:09:46,373
Speaker 2: the question that I have asked others before as well

1206
01:09:46,853 --> 01:09:50,693
Speaker 2: is should New Zealand join up because they're going FI.

1207
01:09:53,973 --> 01:09:56,453
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1208
01:09:56,533 --> 01:10:01,613
Speaker 4: The more you centralize power and control, the more not

1209
01:10:01,613 --> 01:10:04,013
Speaker 4: not the more susceptible it is to being captured. Because

1210
01:10:04,053 --> 01:10:08,413
Speaker 4: they can capture diverse entities across the world, but the

1211
01:10:08,333 --> 01:10:12,893
Speaker 4: the more you see power into a centralized.

1212
01:10:13,813 --> 01:10:17,893
Speaker 3: Entity that is demonstrably captured.

1213
01:10:17,973 --> 01:10:23,373
Speaker 4: There's been documentation for twenty years of how the WHO

1214
01:10:23,493 --> 01:10:26,693
Speaker 4: of old, which is I would say last century, has

1215
01:10:26,733 --> 01:10:30,453
Speaker 4: been transformed. It literally works in the service of big Pharma.

1216
01:10:30,853 --> 01:10:34,573
Speaker 4: So any country that doubles that joints the WHO is

1217
01:10:34,613 --> 01:10:39,613
Speaker 4: basically seeding their sovereignty and their authority to corporate interests,

1218
01:10:40,813 --> 01:10:46,373
Speaker 4: which is antithetical to the purpose of government. Why would

1219
01:10:46,413 --> 01:10:51,373
Speaker 4: a government seat itself to a profit making corporation. I mean,

1220
01:10:51,653 --> 01:10:55,853
Speaker 4: to go into gates would be another hour, but he's

1221
01:10:55,893 --> 01:11:00,053
Speaker 4: on record showing that, like the eighteen billion that he

1222
01:11:00,173 --> 01:11:03,173
Speaker 4: learned that he earned in the pandemic through his investments

1223
01:11:03,493 --> 01:11:07,693
Speaker 4: into all the things that they mandated. So I just

1224
01:11:07,733 --> 01:11:09,973
Speaker 4: don't understand why I see the world in a certain

1225
01:11:10,013 --> 01:11:11,973
Speaker 4: way and so few others don't.

1226
01:11:12,173 --> 01:11:14,013
Speaker 3: Actually, I shouldn't say that I don't understand.

1227
01:11:14,053 --> 01:11:19,573
Speaker 4: I do understand because people have been sickened with immense

1228
01:11:19,813 --> 01:11:24,173
Speaker 4: propaganda from every sphere three hundred and sixty degrees.

1229
01:11:25,373 --> 01:11:26,173
Speaker 3: And can we talk.

1230
01:11:26,053 --> 01:11:29,933
Speaker 4: About propaganda for a second late, because the definition that

1231
01:11:29,973 --> 01:11:33,333
Speaker 4: I've been most moved by for what propaganda is, it's

1232
01:11:33,373 --> 01:11:35,853
Speaker 4: actually from a colleague patient of mine. He's a world

1233
01:11:35,933 --> 01:11:39,293
Speaker 4: expert in propaganda. His name is Professor Mark Crispin Miller.

1234
01:11:39,333 --> 01:11:44,293
Speaker 4: From New York University. And his definition is that propaganda

1235
01:11:44,933 --> 01:11:48,973
Speaker 4: is a story or a message to get.

1236
01:11:48,693 --> 01:11:52,053
Speaker 3: You to think or act in a certain way.

1237
01:11:53,253 --> 01:11:56,213
Speaker 4: And when I first heard that definition, I'd already been

1238
01:11:56,253 --> 01:11:59,853
Speaker 4: deeply studied on disinformation. I'd already seen a world act

1239
01:11:59,933 --> 01:12:03,893
Speaker 4: so bizarrely against their own interests. I saw people lining

1240
01:12:03,973 --> 01:12:06,973
Speaker 4: up for these toxic vaccines. I saw examples of like

1241
01:12:07,333 --> 01:12:12,173
Speaker 4: someone pass out in centers after getting a vaccine, and

1242
01:12:12,293 --> 01:12:13,933
Speaker 4: yet the line didn't disperse.

1243
01:12:14,693 --> 01:12:19,133
Speaker 3: People kept showing up for more vaccines. And so the

1244
01:12:19,453 --> 01:12:20,773
Speaker 3: story or message to get you.

1245
01:12:20,733 --> 01:12:24,573
Speaker 4: Think or act in a certain way, the world just

1246
01:12:24,693 --> 01:12:28,573
Speaker 4: has no idea that they're being propagated. They're being manipulated

1247
01:12:28,573 --> 01:12:31,253
Speaker 4: with information to get them to think correct in certain ways,

1248
01:12:31,293 --> 01:12:36,413
Speaker 4: and their actions are oftentimes directly opposed to their interests

1249
01:12:36,453 --> 01:12:39,373
Speaker 4: as a human, to their well being and their safety.

1250
01:12:39,693 --> 01:12:43,733
Speaker 4: And they don't know this. They don't know they're being manipulated.

1251
01:12:44,213 --> 01:12:46,133
Speaker 4: And I don't know how to communicate that.

1252
01:12:46,053 --> 01:12:46,573
Speaker 3: To the world.

1253
01:12:46,973 --> 01:12:50,453
Speaker 4: But I really my main message is very trite, right

1254
01:12:50,493 --> 01:12:53,013
Speaker 4: because other people like Trump and other people are saying,

1255
01:12:53,053 --> 01:12:57,093
Speaker 4: like turn off your televisions, turn off your radios, employ

1256
01:12:57,213 --> 01:13:02,653
Speaker 4: critical thinking. You know, understand what is behind those information sources.

1257
01:13:02,733 --> 01:13:05,773
Speaker 4: What are the financial interests that are driving that information

1258
01:13:05,813 --> 01:13:06,253
Speaker 4: towards you?

1259
01:13:06,293 --> 01:13:08,173
Speaker 3: I mean, I just wish.

1260
01:13:07,933 --> 01:13:11,173
Speaker 4: The world would just somehow be able to identify and

1261
01:13:11,213 --> 01:13:18,133
Speaker 4: listen to independent, unconflicted researchers, doctors, media, folks, you.

1262
01:13:18,093 --> 01:13:21,173
Speaker 3: Know, folks like you. I'm sure you don't take pharmal money, Laton.

1263
01:13:22,013 --> 01:13:22,853
Speaker 2: They never offered.

1264
01:13:23,413 --> 01:13:24,653
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what was gonna say.

1265
01:13:24,693 --> 01:13:28,773
Speaker 2: But they wouldn't. They wouldn't.

1266
01:13:28,933 --> 01:13:30,653
Speaker 3: You wouldn't have me on if that was the case.

1267
01:13:30,733 --> 01:13:36,533
Speaker 2: They wouldn't. They wouldn't get it. So Professor Mark Crispin Miller,

1268
01:13:36,853 --> 01:13:38,893
Speaker 2: and what's his what's his specialty?

1269
01:13:40,053 --> 01:13:43,613
Speaker 4: So he was a professor of propaganda at New York

1270
01:13:43,693 --> 01:13:45,213
Speaker 4: University and he.

1271
01:13:45,413 --> 01:13:48,773
Speaker 2: Saw all of this, so hang on. So he's a

1272
01:13:48,773 --> 01:13:54,493
Speaker 2: professor of propaganda, not to propagate propaganda, but to to educate.

1273
01:13:54,933 --> 01:14:01,333
Speaker 4: The history, ramifications, consequences, presence of propaganda in society. I mean,

1274
01:14:01,373 --> 01:14:04,453
Speaker 4: he's that that's been his life's work because and I

1275
01:14:04,493 --> 01:14:07,653
Speaker 4: think it's as probably one of the most important topics

1276
01:14:07,653 --> 01:14:08,333
Speaker 4: in the world today.

1277
01:14:08,413 --> 01:14:09,493
Speaker 3: It doesn't get discussed.

1278
01:14:10,333 --> 01:14:13,293
Speaker 4: But remember propaganda has started back in the nineteen twenties

1279
01:14:13,333 --> 01:14:16,893
Speaker 4: with Barnet's and the Germans used it, and everyone seems

1280
01:14:16,893 --> 01:14:20,453
Speaker 4: to identify propaganda with like the Soviet Union.

1281
01:14:20,253 --> 01:14:24,053
Speaker 3: North Korea, Germany. And you know, one of the.

1282
01:14:24,053 --> 01:14:26,933
Speaker 4: Really funny anecdotes that really has stayed with me today

1283
01:14:26,973 --> 01:14:30,253
Speaker 4: is that I was talking to a friend of mine

1284
01:14:30,293 --> 01:14:33,933
Speaker 4: who is German, and he said, you know, back, you know,

1285
01:14:33,973 --> 01:14:35,453
Speaker 4: before the Berlin Wall fell.

1286
01:14:35,693 --> 01:14:37,893
Speaker 3: He said, the East.

1287
01:14:37,653 --> 01:14:42,773
Speaker 4: Germans, they didn't listen to the television. They knew that

1288
01:14:42,813 --> 01:14:45,533
Speaker 4: it was the state line to them. They were well

1289
01:14:45,573 --> 01:14:48,533
Speaker 4: aware that you don't trust the television, you don't trust

1290
01:14:48,573 --> 01:14:49,173
Speaker 4: the media.

1291
01:14:49,733 --> 01:14:51,333
Speaker 3: They laughed at that stuff.

1292
01:14:51,773 --> 01:14:54,733
Speaker 4: Whereas I live in a country in the United States

1293
01:14:55,293 --> 01:14:58,413
Speaker 4: where people turn on their televisions and radio stations and

1294
01:14:58,453 --> 01:14:59,613
Speaker 4: read their newspapers.

1295
01:15:00,093 --> 01:15:03,133
Speaker 3: They have no idea what's behind them.

1296
01:15:03,613 --> 01:15:07,413
Speaker 4: They think that these are well meaning journalists with integrity,

1297
01:15:07,493 --> 01:15:11,693
Speaker 4: who've done investment negations and have determined accuracy using facts

1298
01:15:11,773 --> 01:15:13,133
Speaker 4: and conclusions.

1299
01:15:13,493 --> 01:15:15,573
Speaker 3: That is not true.

1300
01:15:15,773 --> 01:15:18,773
Speaker 4: If it's printed in the papers, it's because someone allowed

1301
01:15:18,813 --> 01:15:19,693
Speaker 4: it to be printed.

1302
01:15:20,653 --> 01:15:21,933
Speaker 3: You know, you can't.

1303
01:15:21,813 --> 01:15:24,653
Speaker 4: Print anything that's inconvenient to the powers that be.

1304
01:15:26,453 --> 01:15:30,173
Speaker 2: Something you just said was a trigger, and I was

1305
01:15:30,533 --> 01:15:34,253
Speaker 2: about to launch into the fact that education is a

1306
01:15:34,293 --> 01:15:39,453
Speaker 2: failure on a number of fronts. It's a failure here,

1307
01:15:39,453 --> 01:15:43,533
Speaker 2: it's a failure practically everywhere. But my mind was cast

1308
01:15:43,573 --> 01:15:47,013
Speaker 2: back to when I was still in still in school,

1309
01:15:47,493 --> 01:15:51,973
Speaker 2: young young, I suggest even sort of the end of

1310
01:15:52,013 --> 01:15:56,253
Speaker 2: primary school and certainly early high school. And this was

1311
01:15:56,773 --> 01:16:05,573
Speaker 2: analyzing stories from the paper in class and deconstructing them

1312
01:16:05,693 --> 01:16:09,893
Speaker 2: and working out you know what, It wasn't propaganda. It

1313
01:16:10,053 --> 01:16:13,533
Speaker 2: was how to find propaganda, if you like. I don't

1314
01:16:13,533 --> 01:16:15,893
Speaker 2: know that I ever realized that, but it was to

1315
01:16:17,053 --> 01:16:22,013
Speaker 2: basically find the true path about about all sorts of things.

1316
01:16:22,453 --> 01:16:24,573
Speaker 2: I don't I don't think it lasted that long as

1317
01:16:24,773 --> 01:16:28,573
Speaker 2: a subject, but I don't believe it happens.

1318
01:16:28,253 --> 01:16:28,773
Speaker 3: At all now.

1319
01:16:30,093 --> 01:16:35,413
Speaker 2: No, No, you don't learn to think, certainly don't learn

1320
01:16:35,493 --> 01:16:38,773
Speaker 2: to think critically as a kid, and it's easy to

1321
01:16:38,773 --> 01:16:40,453
Speaker 2: brainwash you under those circumstances.

1322
01:16:41,293 --> 01:16:45,453
Speaker 4: I totally agree. You know, I want to inject something positive.

1323
01:16:46,893 --> 01:16:53,213
Speaker 4: Why Why because because let's go back to how we

1324
01:16:53,293 --> 01:16:56,093
Speaker 4: started leading. You asked me about old Pierre and new Pierre.

1325
01:16:56,693 --> 01:16:59,813
Speaker 4: You know what happened to me is literally my perception,

1326
01:17:00,173 --> 01:17:03,653
Speaker 4: my awareness of reality and society and what's really going

1327
01:17:03,693 --> 01:17:08,013
Speaker 4: on truly expanded. I'm not going to claim I know everything.

1328
01:17:08,653 --> 01:17:10,773
Speaker 4: I do know I know a lot more of the

1329
01:17:10,813 --> 01:17:15,333
Speaker 4: world than I did. But the positive point is and

1330
01:17:15,373 --> 01:17:18,533
Speaker 4: that's been positive for me. I really think the only

1331
01:17:18,573 --> 01:17:20,693
Speaker 4: way you can live is being as well informed as

1332
01:17:20,733 --> 01:17:23,133
Speaker 4: you can, and I think I was very poorly informed

1333
01:17:23,133 --> 01:17:25,133
Speaker 4: in my prior existence.

1334
01:17:25,893 --> 01:17:28,653
Speaker 3: But I'm not the only one. This has happened to

1335
01:17:28,733 --> 01:17:29,733
Speaker 3: a lot of people.

1336
01:17:29,773 --> 01:17:32,453
Speaker 4: You know. We use that phrase that they were woken

1337
01:17:32,613 --> 01:17:35,373
Speaker 4: up in COVID And I recently wrote a post. I

1338
01:17:35,373 --> 01:17:37,453
Speaker 4: have a substack that's pretty popular. I do a lot

1339
01:17:37,453 --> 01:17:43,013
Speaker 4: of writings on medical and medical adjacent topics, and I

1340
01:17:43,053 --> 01:17:45,693
Speaker 4: was doing a post on the trust in hospitals and

1341
01:17:45,733 --> 01:17:49,253
Speaker 4: physicians because there was a paper that got a lot

1342
01:17:49,253 --> 01:17:55,853
Speaker 4: of attention last July where Americans trust in hospitals and

1343
01:17:55,853 --> 01:17:59,893
Speaker 4: physicians from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty three or four

1344
01:18:00,453 --> 01:18:04,853
Speaker 4: plummeted from seventy one percent to forty percent. Americas are

1345
01:18:04,893 --> 01:18:08,013
Speaker 4: disgusted with the medical system and how they responded in

1346
01:18:08,053 --> 01:18:12,733
Speaker 4: all actions they took. And I also found data in

1347
01:18:12,773 --> 01:18:16,493
Speaker 4: the media. So there's this survey they've done about media

1348
01:18:16,613 --> 01:18:19,133
Speaker 4: for like, I think they had data going back twenty

1349
01:18:19,173 --> 01:18:23,653
Speaker 4: five years and they asked respondents to ask about their

1350
01:18:23,653 --> 01:18:27,133
Speaker 4: trust to media and there's three choices. It was lots

1351
01:18:27,213 --> 01:18:32,813
Speaker 4: of trust, some trust, and no trust at all.

1352
01:18:32,893 --> 01:18:34,293
Speaker 3: And for the first time.

1353
01:18:34,093 --> 01:18:39,893
Speaker 4: In history, last year the highest proportion were those that

1354
01:18:40,013 --> 01:18:42,533
Speaker 4: had no trust in all in media. I think it

1355
01:18:42,613 --> 01:18:45,693
Speaker 4: was like forty one percent, and then the other choices

1356
01:18:45,733 --> 01:18:49,693
Speaker 4: were something less. And so I think people are waking

1357
01:18:49,813 --> 01:18:52,253
Speaker 4: up to the fact that we live in a world

1358
01:18:52,253 --> 01:18:55,573
Speaker 4: of propaganda, and I think that's only good for the

1359
01:18:55,573 --> 01:18:58,853
Speaker 4: health of the world, for our sanity, for our actions,

1360
01:18:59,413 --> 01:19:01,613
Speaker 4: because if you don't trust and people who are lying

1361
01:19:01,653 --> 01:19:05,333
Speaker 4: to you, hopefully you can make decisions that are better

1362
01:19:05,373 --> 01:19:05,853
Speaker 4: for your.

1363
01:19:05,693 --> 01:19:07,173
Speaker 3: Welfare and your family's welfare.

1364
01:19:08,453 --> 01:19:13,453
Speaker 2: You know, you've distracted me from some of the directions

1365
01:19:13,453 --> 01:19:16,893
Speaker 2: I would have liked to have gone in, and we're

1366
01:19:16,893 --> 01:19:19,453
Speaker 2: going to conclude in a minute with one of those.

1367
01:19:20,173 --> 01:19:24,013
Speaker 2: But it's occurred to me that, let me put it

1368
01:19:24,013 --> 01:19:27,013
Speaker 2: this way, the book and I have a lot of books,

1369
01:19:28,053 --> 01:19:33,053
Speaker 2: the book is fascinating. It's fascinating for a multitude of reasons.

1370
01:19:33,253 --> 01:19:37,453
Speaker 2: First of all for its information and education. Secondly, because

1371
01:19:37,453 --> 01:19:41,173
Speaker 2: of the way it's written. And I found myself thinking,

1372
01:19:41,413 --> 01:19:46,373
Speaker 2: this is a scene out of a crime novel or

1373
01:19:46,413 --> 01:19:49,533
Speaker 2: some equivalent to that. It was like it was like

1374
01:19:49,653 --> 01:19:55,733
Speaker 2: you weren't really writing about yourself and the circumstances that

1375
01:19:55,813 --> 01:20:02,213
Speaker 2: you found yourself in. You were almost almost being fictitious

1376
01:20:02,213 --> 01:20:07,093
Speaker 2: about it and writing about somebody else. But it was

1377
01:20:07,133 --> 01:20:11,133
Speaker 2: that it's the book has written, your co author or

1378
01:20:11,213 --> 01:20:14,253
Speaker 2: whatever you call her, and you have done a superb job.

1379
01:20:15,173 --> 01:20:16,933
Speaker 3: I appreciate that.

1380
01:20:16,933 --> 01:20:20,573
Speaker 2: There are two things I really want to touch on.

1381
01:20:20,053 --> 01:20:24,573
Speaker 2: One is you made reference toward the end of the book.

1382
01:20:25,013 --> 01:20:29,253
Speaker 2: Here we are in the last two paragraphs of the

1383
01:20:29,373 --> 01:20:35,013
Speaker 2: vaccine Disinformation Campaign, Chapter forty. I am now estranged from

1384
01:20:35,093 --> 01:20:38,053
Speaker 2: not only those who practice medicine inside that system, but

1385
01:20:38,133 --> 01:20:42,253
Speaker 2: from science in general, at least as it's come to

1386
01:20:42,293 --> 01:20:45,013
Speaker 2: be known. I no longer know who and what to

1387
01:20:45,053 --> 01:20:48,413
Speaker 2: trust within the system, and have now chosen to believe

1388
01:20:48,533 --> 01:20:53,493
Speaker 2: nothing that cannot be confirmed by numerous objective data sources

1389
01:20:54,013 --> 01:20:57,893
Speaker 2: using an assessment of the totality of evidence, and not

1390
01:20:58,013 --> 01:21:03,573
Speaker 2: the curated, premeditated conclusions found in high impact medical journal studies.

1391
01:21:04,373 --> 01:21:06,453
Speaker 2: To say it is a sad state of affairs is

1392
01:21:06,493 --> 01:21:09,653
Speaker 2: the understatement of my life. To realize that this state

1393
01:21:09,693 --> 01:21:13,853
Speaker 2: of medical science has existed for decades is both humbling

1394
01:21:14,333 --> 01:21:18,493
Speaker 2: and terrifying. How many people have I hurt using medicines

1395
01:21:18,573 --> 01:21:23,413
Speaker 2: built on lies. In my career, my consolation is that

1396
01:21:23,773 --> 01:21:28,013
Speaker 2: oftentimes it takes great destruction to realize where weakness lies.

1397
01:21:28,773 --> 01:21:31,733
Speaker 2: After a natural disaster leaves a community in ruins, you

1398
01:21:31,773 --> 01:21:35,373
Speaker 2: can bet the rebuilt structures will be engineered to withstand

1399
01:21:35,373 --> 01:21:38,013
Speaker 2: the next one. At least I know what I'm dealing

1400
01:21:38,053 --> 01:21:42,133
Speaker 2: with now, because only good things can come from that knowledge.

1401
01:21:42,733 --> 01:21:46,613
Speaker 2: In one film depiction of Pearl Harbor, the attacks planner,

1402
01:21:46,813 --> 01:21:51,773
Speaker 2: Japanese Admiral Yavamoto declares, I fear all we have done

1403
01:21:52,253 --> 01:21:55,133
Speaker 2: is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with

1404
01:21:55,173 --> 01:22:00,013
Speaker 2: a terrible resolve. Yes, I am awake, and I am

1405
01:22:00,053 --> 01:22:05,533
Speaker 2: filled with a terrible, immense, galvanizing resolve. And I thought

1406
01:22:05,573 --> 01:22:07,573
Speaker 2: that there was a brilliant commentary.

1407
01:22:09,653 --> 01:22:10,013
Speaker 3: It is.

1408
01:22:10,093 --> 01:22:13,933
Speaker 2: It is, unfortunately not what contained what I was, what

1409
01:22:13,973 --> 01:22:17,013
Speaker 2: I was heading for, but it was worth it was

1410
01:22:17,053 --> 01:22:22,213
Speaker 2: worth inserting. You mentioned you mentioned climate Somewhere in that

1411
01:22:22,333 --> 01:22:25,253
Speaker 2: vicinity of what I read. You wrote that you don't

1412
01:22:25,253 --> 01:22:29,573
Speaker 2: believe things, et cetera. And you now don't know that

1413
01:22:29,613 --> 01:22:33,573
Speaker 2: you believe what they're saying about climate change. Basically, that's

1414
01:22:33,573 --> 01:22:36,293
Speaker 2: what you said. You haven't had time to study it,

1415
01:22:37,413 --> 01:22:39,853
Speaker 2: but you hope you will. Climate change was where I

1416
01:22:39,893 --> 01:22:43,573
Speaker 2: started at least twenty five years ago, and I've been

1417
01:22:43,933 --> 01:22:48,373
Speaker 2: I've been warring with the powers that ever since because

1418
01:22:48,373 --> 01:22:51,853
Speaker 2: it's a scam, just like just like so many other things.

1419
01:22:52,253 --> 01:22:56,173
Speaker 2: It's a real scam. And I've done multiple multiple interviews

1420
01:22:56,213 --> 01:23:00,613
Speaker 2: with people over the years on it. But climate is

1421
01:23:01,813 --> 01:23:05,213
Speaker 2: is not controlled by two?

1422
01:23:06,013 --> 01:23:07,093
Speaker 3: Can I say that?

1423
01:23:07,213 --> 01:23:09,773
Speaker 4: Since I wrote that book, which is already I don't know,

1424
01:23:09,813 --> 01:23:13,613
Speaker 4: maybe two three years ago, I haven't spent a lot

1425
01:23:13,653 --> 01:23:17,653
Speaker 4: of time in climate And I'll tell you why, because

1426
01:23:17,733 --> 01:23:21,973
Speaker 4: what makes an expert is pattern recognition. And all the

1427
01:23:22,053 --> 01:23:27,813
Speaker 4: hallmarks of the disinformation campaign around ivermectin are present with

1428
01:23:28,293 --> 01:23:34,173
Speaker 4: man made CO two causing global warming. Now, every single thumbprint,

1429
01:23:34,853 --> 01:23:39,213
Speaker 4: fingerprint of the disinformation against avernmactin is there with global

1430
01:23:39,253 --> 01:23:41,413
Speaker 4: warmer So I don't care. And I also saw a

1431
01:23:42,013 --> 01:23:44,813
Speaker 4: documentary which really kind of stirred me to my soul

1432
01:23:45,653 --> 01:23:48,453
Speaker 4: where and I can't remember what the documentary was called,

1433
01:23:48,493 --> 01:23:54,053
Speaker 4: but they interviewed lots of prominent climate scientists who described

1434
01:23:54,733 --> 01:23:58,053
Speaker 4: what happens to them when they try to present or

1435
01:23:58,093 --> 01:24:02,813
Speaker 4: write papers about their data showing that it's not about

1436
01:24:04,013 --> 01:24:05,253
Speaker 4: man made CO two.

1437
01:24:05,213 --> 01:24:08,973
Speaker 2: Well that was a British That was a British documentary. Eh.

1438
01:24:09,013 --> 01:24:11,213
Speaker 2: And there were two of them, and I don't know

1439
01:24:11,253 --> 01:24:12,933
Speaker 2: whether it was the first one or the second, because

1440
01:24:12,933 --> 01:24:17,253
Speaker 2: I think they felt it a similar similar pattern in BOS.

1441
01:24:17,333 --> 01:24:22,573
Speaker 2: But I more recently interviewed the director of that, the

1442
01:24:22,613 --> 01:24:25,533
Speaker 2: man who put it together. Yeah, and.

1443
01:24:27,413 --> 01:24:30,773
Speaker 4: No hearing them, they were they were basically describing what

1444
01:24:30,893 --> 01:24:35,053
Speaker 4: happened to my career. So like I identified their message

1445
01:24:35,093 --> 01:24:38,413
Speaker 4: resonated and I was like, you go fight that war.

1446
01:24:38,573 --> 01:24:41,213
Speaker 4: I'm fighting this war. But I realized that's a war

1447
01:24:41,573 --> 01:24:44,773
Speaker 4: of disinformation. This whole CO two thing is that, like

1448
01:24:44,813 --> 01:24:47,453
Speaker 4: you said, it's a scam, just like ivermectin is a

1449
01:24:47,453 --> 01:24:48,253
Speaker 4: horsety wormer.

1450
01:24:48,333 --> 01:24:49,213
Speaker 3: It's a scam.

1451
01:24:49,813 --> 01:24:53,333
Speaker 4: And and you know they lose grant funding, they can't

1452
01:24:53,373 --> 01:24:56,733
Speaker 4: do research. I mean, if you're doing inconvenient science to

1453
01:24:56,773 --> 01:25:00,893
Speaker 4: the narrative or to the consensus, your career drives up.

1454
01:25:01,013 --> 01:25:05,373
Speaker 4: So what you're left with are these fields of science

1455
01:25:06,013 --> 01:25:09,973
Speaker 4: which are Yeah, there's consens because they get rid of

1456
01:25:10,053 --> 01:25:13,253
Speaker 4: all the dissidents, they star of the dissonance to death

1457
01:25:14,053 --> 01:25:18,053
Speaker 4: or the excommunicate them, so all you get is parrot heads.

1458
01:25:18,413 --> 01:25:22,453
Speaker 2: Correct. Yes, And I was going to say that I

1459
01:25:22,533 --> 01:25:27,333
Speaker 2: recognize what you said about about the link between the two.

1460
01:25:28,173 --> 01:25:32,213
Speaker 2: The thing that intrigued me was I worked in reverse

1461
01:25:33,333 --> 01:25:38,813
Speaker 2: and climate change scamming trained me up for being very

1462
01:25:38,813 --> 01:25:44,293
Speaker 2: suspicious at the beginning and then developing it on everything

1463
01:25:44,333 --> 01:25:48,613
Speaker 2: to do with COVID nineteen yep. So on that note,

1464
01:25:49,213 --> 01:25:53,173
Speaker 2: I'm going to say that it's been one of the

1465
01:25:53,813 --> 01:25:57,533
Speaker 2: It's been an amazing how long hour and twenty minutes

1466
01:25:59,213 --> 01:26:01,933
Speaker 2: amazing And you're on holiday in Hawaii. You're going to

1467
01:26:01,933 --> 01:26:05,893
Speaker 2: play golf this afternoon. I know that, and I am

1468
01:26:05,973 --> 01:26:08,293
Speaker 2: so grateful for the time that you've and the energy

1469
01:26:08,453 --> 01:26:10,133
Speaker 2: that you were put into the time that we have

1470
01:26:10,253 --> 01:26:14,493
Speaker 2: been talking so much so that I'm going to put

1471
01:26:14,573 --> 01:26:17,293
Speaker 2: you on the spot and say, would you rejoin us

1472
01:26:17,293 --> 01:26:20,053
Speaker 2: because there are other things, you know, a few months

1473
01:26:20,093 --> 01:26:20,613
Speaker 2: down the track.

1474
01:26:21,653 --> 01:26:24,453
Speaker 3: Absolutely no, it's a pleasure. I'm happy to have joined

1475
01:26:24,493 --> 01:26:25,253
Speaker 3: you for sure.

1476
01:26:25,893 --> 01:26:30,293
Speaker 2: Anyway, listen, my thanks to your very patient wife. I

1477
01:26:30,333 --> 01:26:31,573
Speaker 2: hope that the golf goes well.

1478
01:26:32,293 --> 01:26:35,773
Speaker 3: It'll be good. It's beautiful weather here. Well, nice talking

1479
01:26:35,773 --> 01:26:37,213
Speaker 3: to man. Yeah, anytime reach out.

1480
01:26:37,773 --> 01:26:41,253
Speaker 2: Likewise, if you feel this value in it, absolutely thank you, Pierre.

1481
01:26:41,733 --> 01:26:42,973
Speaker 3: All right, lady, take care By.

1482
01:27:01,133 --> 01:27:04,093
Speaker 2: Missus producer the mail room for a podcast two hundred

1483
01:27:04,173 --> 01:27:07,533
Speaker 2: lady four, Hi Layson, did you hear me two eight four?

1484
01:27:07,693 --> 01:27:09,453
Speaker 3: I know, yeah, I heard.

1485
01:27:09,653 --> 01:27:14,893
Speaker 2: I thought perfect, okay, good? Was that good? In anticipation

1486
01:27:14,973 --> 01:27:17,093
Speaker 2: of my next question, how are you good?

1487
01:27:17,533 --> 01:27:19,613
Speaker 6: You've done two eight before? I can't believe it? And

1488
01:27:19,733 --> 01:27:20,693
Speaker 6: I am good? Thank you?

1489
01:27:20,973 --> 01:27:21,493
Speaker 2: Excellent?

1490
01:27:21,813 --> 01:27:23,813
Speaker 6: What a convoluted experience that was.

1491
01:27:23,853 --> 01:27:24,693
Speaker 2: Why don't you prove it?

1492
01:27:24,693 --> 01:27:28,933
Speaker 6: By Sir I Shall Allison says the recent podcast featuring

1493
01:27:28,973 --> 01:27:32,693
Speaker 6: Remish the Kur again is excellent. Wish we could hear

1494
01:27:32,773 --> 01:27:37,773
Speaker 6: him more often. His consistent wisdom, helpful worldview, and wide

1495
01:27:37,813 --> 01:27:40,853
Speaker 6: knowledge is needed to be heard by everyone. I wonder

1496
01:27:40,853 --> 01:27:43,853
Speaker 6: if the long march through the institutions and the ensuing

1497
01:27:43,933 --> 01:27:47,373
Speaker 6: success of that Marxist strategy would have turned out the

1498
01:27:47,373 --> 01:27:50,973
Speaker 6: same if such professors and lecturers as Ramesh had been

1499
01:27:51,013 --> 01:27:54,413
Speaker 6: appointed in most of the universities of the West. Could

1500
01:27:54,493 --> 01:27:57,093
Speaker 6: we have had a class of young with similar wisdom

1501
01:27:57,133 --> 01:28:00,493
Speaker 6: and common sense. At the end, you introduce us to

1502
01:28:00,533 --> 01:28:04,373
Speaker 6: Stephen the medical doctor and read us a tantalizing fragment

1503
01:28:04,413 --> 01:28:10,333
Speaker 6: of his letter necessary information not commonly known, superb. I

1504
01:28:10,413 --> 01:28:12,933
Speaker 6: wonder if he would not be open to being interviewed

1505
01:28:12,933 --> 01:28:17,453
Speaker 6: by you, protecting anonymity in the process latent, and she

1506
01:28:17,733 --> 01:28:20,333
Speaker 6: asks where is one able to read the full submission

1507
01:28:20,373 --> 01:28:22,013
Speaker 6: which he wrote.

1508
01:28:23,253 --> 01:28:27,333
Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that. I will chase it up.

1509
01:28:27,613 --> 01:28:31,973
Speaker 2: How's that I had to yesterday evening I had to

1510
01:28:32,013 --> 01:28:35,573
Speaker 2: explain to somebody who was roughly my age about the

1511
01:28:35,613 --> 01:28:38,653
Speaker 2: long march through the institutions. Never heard of it. I

1512
01:28:38,693 --> 01:28:44,413
Speaker 2: reckon that good eighty percent of the population hasn't interesting. Now,

1513
01:28:44,453 --> 01:28:47,533
Speaker 2: this is from a lawyer hoping you might care to

1514
01:28:47,813 --> 01:28:52,613
Speaker 2: analyze and dismember Simon Wilson's piece in this week's Herald

1515
01:28:53,173 --> 01:28:56,573
Speaker 2: on Trump's first one hundred I don't need to point

1516
01:28:56,573 --> 01:29:00,413
Speaker 2: out the inaccuracies and distortions to you, but were you

1517
01:29:00,493 --> 01:29:03,493
Speaker 2: to do so publicly, would be doing us all a

1518
01:29:03,533 --> 01:29:08,173
Speaker 2: great service. Secondly, just mentioning that's all that I have,

1519
01:29:08,333 --> 01:29:12,053
Speaker 2: I've had to make a firm decision not to listen

1520
01:29:12,093 --> 01:29:15,813
Speaker 2: any longer to Hoskin's American correspondent Richard Arnold's three days

1521
01:29:15,813 --> 01:29:19,973
Speaker 2: a week. Heaven help us. He's Australian, not American, and

1522
01:29:20,133 --> 01:29:23,293
Speaker 2: not sure who employs him. He's freelanced, by the way.

1523
01:29:23,613 --> 01:29:28,573
Speaker 2: Any reference to Trump, any references to Trump are slighting,

1524
01:29:28,813 --> 01:29:34,893
Speaker 2: snide and sneering. The illiteration is excusable. In describing this

1525
01:29:35,013 --> 01:29:39,213
Speaker 2: bigot bluntly, he's full of bs. Never credit for the

1526
01:29:39,253 --> 01:29:44,733
Speaker 2: border or attempts to end the Ukrainian disaster. Hosking seems

1527
01:29:44,773 --> 01:29:48,253
Speaker 2: to defer to him the latter's grasp of political realities.

1528
01:29:48,293 --> 01:29:52,133
Speaker 2: Also suspect. This morning, he predicted that Dutton is going

1529
01:29:52,173 --> 01:29:56,253
Speaker 2: to get thrashed because the polls indicate that he probably

1530
01:29:56,293 --> 01:30:00,453
Speaker 2: will lose. But not to the extent Hoskin should Hosking

1531
01:30:00,533 --> 01:30:03,173
Speaker 2: not to that extent. Hoskin should realize by now that

1532
01:30:03,173 --> 01:30:06,893
Speaker 2: the Aussie Poles are very slewed or should they be skewed?

1533
01:30:07,573 --> 01:30:13,613
Speaker 2: As of course, is their media just like ours? Sincerely,

1534
01:30:15,133 --> 01:30:16,973
Speaker 2: So I've got legal banking for that.

1535
01:30:18,533 --> 01:30:19,173
Speaker 3: He's a lawyer.

1536
01:30:19,813 --> 01:30:24,053
Speaker 2: Oh good, Yeah. Now the answer to your question, what

1537
01:30:24,173 --> 01:30:28,013
Speaker 2: I care to analyze and dismember Simon Wilson's piece? What

1538
01:30:28,213 --> 01:30:31,613
Speaker 2: Simon Wilson, hush.

1539
01:30:31,253 --> 01:30:36,173
Speaker 6: Layton leyden Jin says So far this year, two first

1540
01:30:36,253 --> 01:30:41,293
Speaker 6: world Western countries, Canada and Australia, have submitted themselves to

1541
01:30:41,333 --> 01:30:45,973
Speaker 6: the same leftist government administrations which nearly destroyed them. When

1542
01:30:46,053 --> 01:30:49,853
Speaker 6: Joe Rogan asked Jordan Peterson, who of course is a Canadian,

1543
01:30:50,293 --> 01:30:53,973
Speaker 6: on how Canada might correct her course given the reelection

1544
01:30:54,133 --> 01:30:59,413
Speaker 6: of the Trudeau two point zero government under Carney. Jordan responded, well,

1545
01:30:59,493 --> 01:31:03,213
Speaker 6: people either correct course by waking up or by experiencing

1546
01:31:03,333 --> 01:31:06,453
Speaker 6: severe pain. And it looks to me we've chosen the

1547
01:31:06,493 --> 01:31:11,013
Speaker 6: severe pain route, I guess, says Jen. Australians have also

1548
01:31:11,093 --> 01:31:13,933
Speaker 6: chosen the root of severe pain with the reelection of

1549
01:31:13,973 --> 01:31:20,253
Speaker 6: Albanesi's divisive and leftist Labor government. Australians will realize soon

1550
01:31:20,413 --> 01:31:22,493
Speaker 6: enough that they have just elected a government that will

1551
01:31:22,493 --> 01:31:25,893
Speaker 6: bring the full weight of the Progressive's war against themselves.

1552
01:31:26,493 --> 01:31:29,053
Speaker 6: So I just want to leave Australians with a powerful

1553
01:31:29,173 --> 01:31:35,613
Speaker 6: exhortation from Robert Menzi's Australia's twelfth Prime Minister, and in quotes,

1554
01:31:35,733 --> 01:31:38,533
Speaker 6: Robert Menzie says, what may be before us, we do

1555
01:31:38,613 --> 01:31:41,453
Speaker 6: not know nor how long the journey, but this we

1556
01:31:41,613 --> 01:31:44,693
Speaker 6: do know that truth is our companion on that journey,

1557
01:31:45,013 --> 01:31:47,453
Speaker 6: that truth is with us in the battle, and that

1558
01:31:47,573 --> 01:31:50,373
Speaker 6: truth must win. I know that in spite of the

1559
01:31:50,413 --> 01:31:53,773
Speaker 6: emotions we are all feeling, you will show that Australia

1560
01:31:53,853 --> 01:31:56,613
Speaker 6: is ready to see it through. May God, in his

1561
01:31:56,773 --> 01:31:59,813
Speaker 6: mercy and compassion, grant that the world may soon be

1562
01:31:59,973 --> 01:32:03,173
Speaker 6: delivered from this agony. And then Jin says, what is

1563
01:32:03,173 --> 01:32:06,533
Speaker 6: a speech that declared war against Nazi Germany in nineteen

1564
01:32:06,613 --> 01:32:10,133
Speaker 6: thirty nine got to do with the recent Australian election everything?

1565
01:32:10,733 --> 01:32:13,533
Speaker 6: As Nick Kata said, the Liberals have forgotten how to

1566
01:32:13,533 --> 01:32:18,093
Speaker 6: play politics. Dutton has lost as courage and Australia's freedom

1567
01:32:18,213 --> 01:32:21,213
Speaker 6: is at stake. The Liberal Party needs to gear up

1568
01:32:21,253 --> 01:32:26,413
Speaker 6: for war. Dutton or whoever replaces him, needs to rediscover

1569
01:32:26,533 --> 01:32:30,213
Speaker 6: their courage and battle with truth by their side. Perhaps

1570
01:32:30,293 --> 01:32:32,533
Speaker 6: Mensi's rousing words might help.

1571
01:32:33,293 --> 01:32:35,053
Speaker 2: I might cut that out and stick it on a

1572
01:32:35,093 --> 01:32:40,613
Speaker 2: war truth very good anyway, David, And this is the

1573
01:32:40,653 --> 01:32:42,413
Speaker 2: subject line I'm going to read the subject I never

1574
01:32:42,493 --> 01:32:46,173
Speaker 2: do that. Adirn rubbish the Bill of Rights in Act.

1575
01:32:46,413 --> 01:32:50,853
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, Luxon wants to double down. Christopher Luckxlon

1576
01:32:50,933 --> 01:32:55,893
Speaker 2: now wants to promote MP Katherine Wedd's members bill seeking

1577
01:32:55,893 --> 01:32:59,253
Speaker 2: to ban social media access to children under sixteen years

1578
01:32:59,293 --> 01:33:02,813
Speaker 2: of age. I wrote to Katherine Wedd pointing out that

1579
01:33:02,893 --> 01:33:06,573
Speaker 2: such legislation would be in clear breach of Section fourteen

1580
01:33:06,653 --> 01:33:09,133
Speaker 2: of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which states

1581
01:33:09,613 --> 01:33:14,013
Speaker 2: everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the

1582
01:33:14,053 --> 01:33:18,853
Speaker 2: freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of

1583
01:33:18,893 --> 01:33:22,133
Speaker 2: any kind in any form. I have yet to receive

1584
01:33:22,373 --> 01:33:25,973
Speaker 2: a reply from Catherine wed but according to media reports,

1585
01:33:25,973 --> 01:33:29,253
Speaker 2: she denied her proposed legislation would breach the Bill of

1586
01:33:29,333 --> 01:33:32,773
Speaker 2: Rights Act. I guess since Adirn and her government got

1587
01:33:32,773 --> 01:33:35,493
Speaker 2: away with the totally ignoring the Bill of Rights Act

1588
01:33:35,573 --> 01:33:40,253
Speaker 2: during COVID, Luxen and his National Party in Peace believe

1589
01:33:40,293 --> 01:33:43,813
Speaker 2: they can do the same. Luxeon is attempting to validate

1590
01:33:43,933 --> 01:33:48,333
Speaker 2: this proposed legislation on the premise that it mimics the

1591
01:33:48,613 --> 01:33:53,653
Speaker 2: Australian Online Safety Act. I'm surprised that Australians didn't push

1592
01:33:53,693 --> 01:33:57,453
Speaker 2: back against such draconian legislation, given that it does not

1593
01:33:57,653 --> 01:34:03,173
Speaker 2: conform to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

1594
01:34:04,013 --> 01:34:06,813
Speaker 2: Both Australia and New Zealand are signatories to this Convention,

1595
01:34:07,413 --> 01:34:11,053
Speaker 2: in which Article nineteen states everyone shall have the right

1596
01:34:11,133 --> 01:34:15,813
Speaker 2: to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to seek, receive,

1597
01:34:16,053 --> 01:34:21,373
Speaker 2: and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers,

1598
01:34:21,533 --> 01:34:25,053
Speaker 2: either orally, in writing or in print, or in the

1599
01:34:25,093 --> 01:34:28,973
Speaker 2: form of art, or through any other means of his

1600
01:34:29,173 --> 01:34:35,493
Speaker 2: choice close quote. Clearly Australian politicians have chosen to ignore

1601
01:34:35,533 --> 01:34:40,653
Speaker 2: an international convention which protected their citizens' civil rights, and

1602
01:34:40,653 --> 01:34:43,693
Speaker 2: that is no reason for MP Katherine wedd and Prime

1603
01:34:43,693 --> 01:34:46,933
Speaker 2: Minister Christopher Luxen to ignore the basic rights of New

1604
01:34:47,013 --> 01:34:50,853
Speaker 2: Zealanders as laid out but laid out in both the

1605
01:34:50,933 --> 01:34:54,453
Speaker 2: Convention and the Bill of Rights Act. No government should

1606
01:34:54,493 --> 01:34:58,093
Speaker 2: be mandating social media restrictions to children under sixteen. That

1607
01:34:58,253 --> 01:35:04,493
Speaker 2: responsibility surely rests solely with parents. David, I could discuss

1608
01:35:04,533 --> 01:35:07,733
Speaker 2: this for the next thirty minutes. I reckon because there

1609
01:35:07,773 --> 01:35:11,653
Speaker 2: are arguments on both sides. I mean, kids aren't allowed

1610
01:35:11,693 --> 01:35:13,773
Speaker 2: to do this, that and the other, you know, like

1611
01:35:13,893 --> 01:35:17,853
Speaker 2: drive underage and drink underage and all of those things.

1612
01:35:18,253 --> 01:35:21,813
Speaker 2: So I guess that's there for their own protection, and

1613
01:35:21,893 --> 01:35:26,933
Speaker 2: it is drinking underage and driving underage, then so might

1614
01:35:27,013 --> 01:35:30,853
Speaker 2: be what they're looking at online. That's that's my best

1615
01:35:30,893 --> 01:35:31,413
Speaker 2: shot at it.

1616
01:35:31,533 --> 01:35:34,653
Speaker 6: I think the big thing is, isn't it that despite

1617
01:35:34,773 --> 01:35:38,773
Speaker 6: your thoughts, one's thoughts about how it's a fantastic idea,

1618
01:35:39,173 --> 01:35:42,133
Speaker 6: how is it going to be managed and policed?

1619
01:35:43,413 --> 01:35:48,973
Speaker 2: Answer on the aforementioned breakfast Hosts program, I might add

1620
01:35:49,013 --> 01:35:50,813
Speaker 2: by the way that there's no question in my mind

1621
01:35:50,853 --> 01:35:54,653
Speaker 2: the best broadcaster in the country, but nobody's without their faults.

1622
01:35:55,053 --> 01:35:59,533
Speaker 2: That you don't know until you try something, And there

1623
01:35:59,573 --> 01:36:01,613
Speaker 2: was reference by to the Australian situation too.

1624
01:36:01,653 --> 01:36:05,053
Speaker 6: You know one hundred percent otherwise, and you know otherwise

1625
01:36:05,093 --> 01:36:07,453
Speaker 6: you'd have a very good reason to not try anything

1626
01:36:07,533 --> 01:36:10,013
Speaker 6: because it might fail. So what's the.

1627
01:36:10,013 --> 01:36:12,413
Speaker 2: Point on that, Well, I've been there once or twice.

1628
01:36:12,893 --> 01:36:14,653
Speaker 6: Well, the other thing is you and I have said before,

1629
01:36:14,693 --> 01:36:18,853
Speaker 6: Thank goodness, we have never brought children up, young children

1630
01:36:18,933 --> 01:36:23,213
Speaker 6: up in this environment because they would far rather sit

1631
01:36:23,253 --> 01:36:25,933
Speaker 6: on a phone than go outside and play with a ball.

1632
01:36:26,413 --> 01:36:28,973
Speaker 2: Helllujah that we didn't.

1633
01:36:29,573 --> 01:36:32,173
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to say, what do you mean, right,

1634
01:36:32,293 --> 01:36:33,413
Speaker 3: you're done? Yes?

1635
01:36:33,613 --> 01:36:38,053
Speaker 2: Oh, now I've got two more and I'm going to

1636
01:36:38,293 --> 01:36:40,773
Speaker 2: I'm going to hold them over till next week because

1637
01:36:41,653 --> 01:36:46,533
Speaker 2: they both deserve a bit of time. So we'll put

1638
01:36:46,533 --> 01:36:49,253
Speaker 2: them on the side. Come back next week. So you've

1639
01:36:49,293 --> 01:36:54,893
Speaker 2: got a date, right, you're weird, See you next weekness,

1640
01:36:54,893 --> 01:37:08,773
Speaker 2: as producer, see you laden Now, I presume if you're

1641
01:37:08,813 --> 01:37:12,293
Speaker 2: still listening that it's because you're interested in this area,

1642
01:37:12,493 --> 01:37:13,413
Speaker 2: in this topic.

1643
01:37:14,253 --> 01:37:14,773
Speaker 3: So too.

1644
01:37:15,253 --> 01:37:19,933
Speaker 2: The commentary on the who's Draft Pandemic Agreement, co authored

1645
01:37:19,933 --> 01:37:24,533
Speaker 2: by David Bell, and it begins the first section background.

1646
01:37:24,573 --> 01:37:26,013
Speaker 2: I'm not going to read it all because it runs.

1647
01:37:26,053 --> 01:37:29,093
Speaker 2: I think it's some thirteen pages or not. Hang on

1648
01:37:29,493 --> 01:37:33,733
Speaker 2: seventeen pages. Will have the first page pretty much and

1649
01:37:33,773 --> 01:37:38,133
Speaker 2: that will do. And it begins with background. The Draft

1650
01:37:38,173 --> 01:37:41,493
Speaker 2: Pandemic Agreement the PA has been under development for three

1651
01:37:41,573 --> 01:37:44,453
Speaker 2: years by delegates of one hundred and ninety four member

1652
01:37:44,493 --> 01:37:49,533
Speaker 2: states of the World Health Organization, the Health Agency of

1653
01:37:49,573 --> 01:37:54,013
Speaker 2: the United Nations instituted after the Second World War. The

1654
01:37:54,093 --> 01:37:57,373
Speaker 2: WHO has been pushing to negotiate a Pandemic Treaty or

1655
01:37:57,413 --> 01:38:02,213
Speaker 2: accord to better prepare the world for pandemic preparedness, prevention,

1656
01:38:02,653 --> 01:38:06,333
Speaker 2: and response, in parallel with a new set of amendments

1657
01:38:06,573 --> 01:38:11,013
Speaker 2: to the two thousand and five National Health Regulations the IHR.

1658
01:38:12,053 --> 01:38:14,653
Speaker 2: The IHR amendments were pushed to a vote at the

1659
01:38:14,733 --> 01:38:19,893
Speaker 2: seventy seventh World Health Assembly the WHA in twenty twenty four,

1660
01:38:20,013 --> 01:38:23,373
Speaker 2: less than forty eight hours after negotiations on them finished.

1661
01:38:23,853 --> 01:38:28,533
Speaker 2: This haste was in blatant violation of the who's own

1662
01:38:28,613 --> 01:38:34,373
Speaker 2: procedural requirements. In December of twenty one, the WHA instituted

1663
01:38:34,413 --> 01:38:40,893
Speaker 2: the Intergovernmental Negotiating Body the I INB to negotiate the PA,

1664
01:38:41,373 --> 01:38:45,333
Speaker 2: but this body failed to reach agreements for the twenty

1665
01:38:45,413 --> 01:38:50,693
Speaker 2: twenty four WHA. It was then mandated to finish its

1666
01:38:50,733 --> 01:38:53,413
Speaker 2: work as soon as possible and no later than a year.

1667
01:38:53,933 --> 01:38:58,453
Speaker 2: The WHO has tried to add to the sense of haste,

1668
01:38:58,813 --> 01:39:03,533
Speaker 2: with its Director General DG recently claiming that the next

1669
01:39:03,573 --> 01:39:08,093
Speaker 2: pandemic could occur tomorrow. Drafts of the PA, along with

1670
01:39:08,133 --> 01:39:12,293
Speaker 2: the IHR amendments, seek to centralize management of pandemics and

1671
01:39:12,373 --> 01:39:18,293
Speaker 2: pandemic preparedness in the WHO, considerably expanding its role in

1672
01:39:18,333 --> 01:39:20,973
Speaker 2: public health. Now I realized that as I'm reading this,

1673
01:39:21,933 --> 01:39:23,893
Speaker 2: the PA and the IHR and the DG in the

1674
01:39:23,973 --> 01:39:27,453
Speaker 2: whhow and it will get confusing. But this is how

1675
01:39:27,533 --> 01:39:31,733
Speaker 2: it's written for contexts. The PA and the IHR amendments

1676
01:39:32,133 --> 01:39:37,293
Speaker 2: are squarely aimed at naturally occurring outbreaks, being heavily oriented

1677
01:39:37,773 --> 01:39:42,613
Speaker 2: to surveillance for pathogens arising in particular from animal reservoirs

1678
01:39:43,253 --> 01:39:48,453
Speaker 2: in Braggett's spillovers. The recent COVID nineteen pandemic being almost

1679
01:39:48,493 --> 01:39:52,813
Speaker 2: certainly the result of a laboratory escape, therefore has little

1680
01:39:52,853 --> 01:39:56,653
Speaker 2: relevance to much of the proposed changes. The last time

1681
01:39:56,733 --> 01:40:01,533
Speaker 2: mortality acute outbreak was the Spanish flu over a century

1682
01:40:01,573 --> 01:40:06,893
Speaker 2: ago in the pre antibiotic era. Now equally important is

1683
01:40:06,973 --> 01:40:12,733
Speaker 2: the competence of the wahow in potentially having an expanded role.

1684
01:40:13,493 --> 01:40:17,053
Speaker 2: The WAHO maintained for years that a lab leak was

1685
01:40:17,213 --> 01:40:21,293
Speaker 2: highly unlikely as a cause for COVID, including on its

1686
01:40:21,333 --> 01:40:26,893
Speaker 2: investigative panel people suspected of sharing responsibility for work leading

1687
01:40:26,933 --> 01:40:30,533
Speaker 2: to the probable leak. It then publicly insisted that there

1688
01:40:30,613 --> 01:40:33,693
Speaker 2: was no human to human transmission of the virus, as

1689
01:40:33,813 --> 01:40:37,573
Speaker 2: reports increased of spread in the population of Wuhan and

1690
01:40:37,733 --> 01:40:43,533
Speaker 2: subsequently provided highly flawed and exaggerated case fatality rates. Despite

1691
01:40:43,573 --> 01:40:47,373
Speaker 2: extensive and early evidence of low harm from COVID nineteen

1692
01:40:47,413 --> 01:40:53,213
Speaker 2: to children, the WAHO was essentially silent as schools were

1693
01:40:53,213 --> 01:40:56,133
Speaker 2: closed for hundreds of millions of children, setting the scene

1694
01:40:56,133 --> 01:41:01,773
Speaker 2: for raised child marriage, child labour, and future intergenerational poverty.

1695
01:41:02,533 --> 01:41:08,333
Speaker 2: The who's Kovacs mass vaccination campaign then spent nearly ten

1696
01:41:08,333 --> 01:41:12,533
Speaker 2: ten billion dollars vaccinating people it knew were mostly already

1697
01:41:12,573 --> 01:41:17,053
Speaker 2: immune and never at high risk. Fifty percent of sub

1698
01:41:17,093 --> 01:41:21,813
Speaker 2: Saharan populations were less than twenty years of age now

1699
01:41:21,853 --> 01:41:28,013
Speaker 2: to promote its Pandemic Preparedness Prevention Response PPPR agenda and

1700
01:41:28,093 --> 01:41:32,493
Speaker 2: the increased funding it is requesting to support this, The

1701
01:41:32,573 --> 01:41:36,493
Speaker 2: WHO and the wider global health industry looking to benefit

1702
01:41:37,213 --> 01:41:42,213
Speaker 2: have embarked on an unusual campaign to demonstrate of demonstrable

1703
01:41:42,213 --> 01:41:47,053
Speaker 2: misrepresentation and confusion. Countries in the media have been provided

1704
01:41:47,053 --> 01:41:50,973
Speaker 2: with a series of reports shown to greatly exaggerate the

1705
01:41:51,053 --> 01:41:55,213
Speaker 2: available evidence and citations on the risk of pandemics occurring,

1706
01:41:55,573 --> 01:42:02,333
Speaker 2: exaggerate expected mortality, mostly based on medieval data, and exaggerate

1707
01:42:02,413 --> 01:42:07,093
Speaker 2: the expected return on investment. This has been frustrating, and

1708
01:42:07,133 --> 01:42:11,333
Speaker 2: while the PA calls for better adherence to honesty and evidence,

1709
01:42:12,053 --> 01:42:17,853
Speaker 2: it directs these recommendations to countries rather than the WHO itself.

1710
01:42:18,293 --> 01:42:22,013
Speaker 2: Now to the last paragraph of the sixteen page epic,

1711
01:42:22,853 --> 01:42:27,773
Speaker 2: the PA the Pandemic Agreements requires sixty ratifications by member

1712
01:42:27,813 --> 01:42:32,133
Speaker 2: states and then in bracketts it says plus thirty days

1713
01:42:32,493 --> 01:42:38,213
Speaker 2: to enter into force. The PA Pandemic Agreement requires sixty

1714
01:42:38,333 --> 01:42:43,293
Speaker 2: ratifications by member states plus thirty days to enter into force,

1715
01:42:44,173 --> 01:42:46,693
Speaker 2: which is almost a third of the who's one hundred

1716
01:42:46,693 --> 01:42:50,453
Speaker 2: and ninety four members. This number is higher than the

1717
01:42:50,533 --> 01:42:56,133
Speaker 2: ratifications commonly required for international treaties. It may reflect a

1718
01:42:56,253 --> 01:43:01,133
Speaker 2: disquiet among member states about the usefulness of the PA overall.

1719
01:43:02,053 --> 01:43:06,453
Speaker 2: There may therefore be a considerable period between the WHA

1720
01:43:06,653 --> 01:43:09,493
Speaker 2: vote where a two thirds its majority is likely to

1721
01:43:09,493 --> 01:43:13,453
Speaker 2: be found for an essentially motherhood and meaningless set of statements,

1722
01:43:14,493 --> 01:43:18,973
Speaker 2: and finding sufficient countries to confirm willingness to contribute to

1723
01:43:19,133 --> 01:43:25,853
Speaker 2: further expanding this draining international commercial and bureaucratic agenda. Summarizes

1724
01:43:25,893 --> 01:43:29,093
Speaker 2: it well. It would be refreshing, though, if this could

1725
01:43:29,133 --> 01:43:33,453
Speaker 2: be recognized as the rather pointless and in the long

1726
01:43:33,573 --> 01:43:38,813
Speaker 2: term harmful exercise and removed from the agenda by a

1727
01:43:38,973 --> 01:43:44,653
Speaker 2: may WHA vote against it. So at this point of time,

1728
01:43:44,773 --> 01:43:46,973
Speaker 2: I believe the New Zealand is going to sign up

1729
01:43:47,013 --> 01:43:50,413
Speaker 2: with it, go for the row, which I think is

1730
01:43:50,453 --> 01:43:53,493
Speaker 2: a dumb thing to do. But don't take my word

1731
01:43:53,533 --> 01:43:56,773
Speaker 2: for it. You listen to Pierre Corey, You've heard Ramish

1732
01:43:56,773 --> 01:44:00,893
Speaker 2: the Kur, David Bell on a number of occasions, people

1733
01:44:01,333 --> 01:44:05,933
Speaker 2: who may I suggest, maybe have a better grip on

1734
01:44:06,013 --> 01:44:10,533
Speaker 2: things than the elected some of those, some of those

1735
01:44:10,853 --> 01:44:14,293
Speaker 2: elected to office. Anyway, that takes us out for podcasts

1736
01:44:14,293 --> 01:44:17,933
Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty four. It has been very enjoyable.

1737
01:44:17,973 --> 01:44:20,173
Speaker 2: By the way, if you would like to write to

1738
01:44:20,253 --> 01:44:23,093
Speaker 2: us Laton at Newstalks AB dot co dot nz and

1739
01:44:23,173 --> 01:44:28,293
Speaker 2: Carolyn at NEWSTALKSB dot co dot nz. We shall return

1740
01:44:28,613 --> 01:44:33,453
Speaker 2: for podcasts two hundred and eighty five very shortly. Until then,

1741
01:44:33,493 --> 01:44:36,773
Speaker 2: as always, thank you for listening and we'll talk soon.

1742
01:44:44,653 --> 01:44:47,693
Speaker 3: Thank you for more from News Talks B.

1743
01:44:47,973 --> 01:44:51,213
Speaker 1: Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows

1744
01:44:51,253 --> 01:44:54,573
Speaker 1: with you wherever you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio