1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Back to the medical school. There are a few questions 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: yesterday about the movement of funding figures. We as in 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: the taxpayer on the hook for eighty two million dollars. 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: Originally the government initially pledged two hundred and eighty million dollars. 5 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Simming and Browns, the Health Ministrani is with us on 6 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: this morning to you morning, Mike. Were you surprised yesterday 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: as you stood there next to mister Luxon and the 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: theatretha of the sort of the question line and the 9 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: intensity of the question line and the sort of the 10 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: myopic nature of the question line you were getting or is. 11 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: That just me Well, from my perspective, I think a 12 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: number of the questions missed the fact that this is 13 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: quite a historic decision for New Zealand. Having a third 14 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 2: medical school, breaking up a dyopoly and being able to 15 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: increase the number of doctors going into rural medicine and 16 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: GP training is really important. So this is a huge decision. 17 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: We're very proud of it. We campaign in it, and 18 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: we're delivering it, and we're very focused now of working 19 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: alongside all of our medical schools to make sure that 20 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: they're providing that future doctor pathways that New Zealand needs 21 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: for our healthcare system. 22 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: Part of the weirdness was the fact I'm in with 23 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: eighty two and they come up with one p fifty 24 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: and that's less than the two to eighty and so 25 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: what you've done is look at something and done at 26 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: more cost effectively. And that seemed to be a problem 27 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: as well, which surprised me. Do we not like that? 28 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 2: I mean, well, we're reducing there's less money being spent 29 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 2: by taxpayers, there's more being contributed by the university and 30 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: also by the philanthropic supporters of that university. Our focus 31 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: now is on delivering this institution. But look, but some 32 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: of those people you know who are looking at the 33 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 2: cost quite intently forgetting You know, this is a significant 34 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 2: increase in doctor training place over a long period of time. 35 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: This is a small amount of capital going into making 36 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: sure we can train one hundred and twenty doctors per 37 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: year over the long term. It's a long term decision 38 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: that we've made about securing the future of medical training 39 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: in New Zealand. And this is a small contribution of 40 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: capital money, and yes it's tax payers money, we respect that, 41 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: but we've gone through a rigorous process to make sure 42 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: that's as efficient and cost effective as possible that we 43 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: can get that long term pipeline that New Zealanders need. 44 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: The post grad thing, you know, the four year course. 45 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: Is it going to be a problem in terms of 46 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: having people line up in that way as opposed to 47 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: what Auckland and the Targo did well. 48 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: I think this is the exciting part of this new 49 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: school is it's a different model for training doctors. So 50 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: instead of people starting and doing the first year health 51 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: sciences and then going through another five years at medical school, 52 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: these people will have already graduated in another area. They 53 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 2: may well have experience they are in terms of being 54 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: a nurse, or being or a paramedic. They may well 55 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: have a range of experiences and they'll be bringing that 56 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 2: to this degree and then going back into their community 57 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 2: and being a doctor. And so it's about actually, how 58 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: do we attract people who are already living in rural communities, 59 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: living in regional New Zealanders New Zealand giving them opportunities 60 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 2: to then train in place and stay in place so 61 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 2: we can attract and retain those graduates. And that's what 62 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 2: they do in Australia. It's a successful model. We're bringing 63 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: that model to New Zealand. We're doing things differently because 64 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: we need to. We need to make sure we're attracting 65 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: and retaining our medical staff over a long period of time. 66 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: We had quickly on earlier on and he used the 67 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: same line you're using. I'm not convinced. I want you 68 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: to be right, but I'm not convinced a graduate will 69 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: go where a graduate will go. They might tell you 70 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: they want to go back home to the farm, or 71 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: they might tell you they want to stay in New Zealand, 72 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: but they'll do what they want to do. Well. 73 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: The research out out of Queensland indicates a much higher 74 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: number of graduates will stay back where they're from, So 75 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: you get a lot higher numbers staying in there's more 76 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: regional communities if that's the model that you're using. And 77 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: also it's about the candidates selection as well, so the 78 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: candidate selection becomes really important. Make sure you're attracting people 79 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: who are already demonstrating a commitment to those communities, providing 80 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 2: them there and I train in those communities much more, 81 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: much higher chance than then staying there. That's we have 82 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: to do things differently on this MIC, and that's why 83 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: this model is being supported by this government because we 84 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: have to do things differently to attract and retain medical 85 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:07,839 Speaker 2: staff over a long period of time. 86 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: Are they going to run a model where if you're 87 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: of a certain race you get in more easily, like 88 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: a tigo in Auckland. 89 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 2: Look, the focus here is on attracting and retaining people 90 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 2: from those more rural communities regional New Zealand. They will 91 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: go through a process where they develop the admission criteria. 92 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: But we've been very clear at the same time, this 93 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: government is going to be progressing under the Coalition agreement 94 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: a review of that MAPS criteria, which is a commitment 95 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: in the coalition agreement. 96 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, but the review is not doing anything, it's just 97 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: a review. So will they or won't they? 98 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: Well, their admission criteria will be developed. 99 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, but if it's developed with a Maori person gets 100 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: in on seventy nine percent and everyone else's ninety eight percent, 101 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: are you going to do about that or not? 102 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: Well? Will We're working obviously with the university. The priority 103 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: here is to make sure we're getting people from regional 104 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: New Zealand. Now going through. 105 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: This bus, a simple question to men, if the regional 106 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: person happens to be Murray, will get in with a 107 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: lower score than a non Murray. 108 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: We want we want people who have We want to 109 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: make sure it's a fear system. 110 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: Is the current system it is, Well, that's. 111 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 2: Why we're doing a review of it. 112 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: With a view to what fixing it. 113 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: Or just look they need to make We need to 114 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: part of the coalition agreement is to review whether or 115 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 2: not it is supporting people from Mali and Pacific communities 116 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 2: and actually those people are then working in those communities 117 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: to improve health outcomes. That's something which we need to 118 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: make sure is that actually working is it not? And 119 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 2: then we'll make decisions following that. 120 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: What's your view as you sit here talking to me 121 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: this morning, Well. 122 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: I want to make sure that we're giving more New 123 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: Zealanders opportunities to train to become doctors in New Zealand. 124 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: And that's what today's announcement's all about. 125 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: See I'm left with the text now, Simming, and you 126 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: haven't helped me out here. All you're doing is obfuscating 127 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: and you have not clearly answered a fairly simple question. 128 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: As I said, today's about making sure that we are 129 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: committing to the long term pipeline doctors. There is a 130 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: separate review underway into that, into the MARI and pacifica 131 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: admission scheme. We're progressing that as a government. Ultimately that 132 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: will then determine the next steps in regards to those policies. 133 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: I appreciate your time as always, assuming you can Brown 134 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: the Health Minister with us this morning. 135 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: Thank you. 136 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: Don't have to think thank you. I just like this Jesus. 137 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 138 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 139 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.