1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: Digging through the spinth to find the real story story.

2
00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,640
Speaker 1: It's hither, duplessy on drive with one New Zealand let's

3
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: get connected news talks.

4
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,040
Speaker 2: That'd be We've just said the fourth law and order

5
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,760
Speaker 2: announcement from the government in five days. This time it's

6
00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,279
Speaker 2: changes to trespass laws which will increase penalties and also

7
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 2: how long people can be trespassed. John Munroe, criminal defense lawyer,

8
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:27,520
Speaker 2: is with us now.

9
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 3: Hello, John, good evening.

10
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:30,000
Speaker 1: Now.

11
00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,320
Speaker 2: I imagine the most helpful part of this is actually

12
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,519
Speaker 2: going to be the ability to trespass somebody from not

13
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 2: just one location, but multiple locations.

14
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,240
Speaker 3: What do you think that sounds like it? Yes, that

15
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,320
Speaker 3: they can do it across a lot of their stores.

16
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,239
Speaker 3: I suppose like the Warehouse or New World can do

17
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,040
Speaker 3: it across all of their shops. That's one of the

18
00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:49,920
Speaker 3: one of the big changes in in that law.

19
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

20
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 2: Having a look at what's been announced across the four announcements,

21
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 2: much of which is dealing with retail crime, is this

22
00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 2: going to make a difference to retail crime? Do you think?

23
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 3: It's very difficult to say. The changes that's one major

24
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 3: change that we just mentioned. The other changes are increasing

25
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,920
Speaker 3: the penalties from two years that you can't come back

26
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 3: to the premises to three years, I think is the

27
00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 3: first one. And then another one where if you refuse

28
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,160
Speaker 3: to give your name and address when trespassed, that's going

29
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 3: from five hundred dollars to a thousand, and if you

30
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 3: refuse to leave or come back at the time, that's

31
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 3: going from one thousand to two thousand dollars. I mean,

32
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,080
Speaker 3: I don't really I don't really think those increases are

33
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 3: going to make a significant difference to people who are

34
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,080
Speaker 3: perhaps shoplifting or doing that sort of crime. In any event,

35
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,800
Speaker 3: most of those sorts of people I would think don't

36
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 3: have much money in the first place to end up

37
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,560
Speaker 3: paying a fine. Does it really deter them? I wouldn't

38
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 3: have thought so. I would have thought that having police

39
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,480
Speaker 3: there and arresting them for a crime really deters people.

40
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,080
Speaker 3: But I don't know about just increases in fines.

41
00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 2: Right, So do you think much more energy should be

42
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,080
Speaker 2: put into something like police presence? Police will the beat

43
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:02,720
Speaker 2: that kind of thing.

44
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,960
Speaker 3: Well, when you look at all that all the changes

45
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 3: that have been have been fast and furious in the

46
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,839
Speaker 3: last sort of month or months, A lot of them.

47
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,320
Speaker 3: For example, the last one about having a special offense,

48
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,119
Speaker 3: a specific offense for assaulting a police officer or assaulting

49
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,919
Speaker 3: a person in the line of duty. That those things,

50
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 3: those sorts of aggravating factors are in the Sentencing Act already.

51
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,560
Speaker 3: So if you assault a police officer in their line

52
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 3: of in their duty, then your sentence will get aggravated

53
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 3: and increased because of it. So I don't I don't

54
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,679
Speaker 3: really see what the teeth.

55
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 2: But I mean this expands it to also include amos

56
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 2: and fine.

57
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 3: No, no, it's it's it's it's it's in the Senensing Act.

58
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,320
Speaker 3: I think it's nine F around that region. There's I

59
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,079
Speaker 3: think it's health workers as well, in any any of

60
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 3: those sorts of.

61
00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,519
Speaker 2: Can I think you take on something because I'm a

62
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 2: little bit con used by it right this read the

63
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,400
Speaker 2: shoplifting fine. Is it possible for the police to issue

64
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,919
Speaker 2: a fine to a shoplifter on the spot without determining

65
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 2: guilt through the courts?

66
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,400
Speaker 3: That that's is that a new proposed law. I didn't

67
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 3: know that law yet. I don't think they can do

68
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,320
Speaker 3: that at the moment, would be proposed? Sorry, would we

69
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 3: be okay with that? Well? I don't think so. I

70
00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 3: think due of course, I think justice needs to take

71
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,800
Speaker 3: place when an allegation such as that.

72
00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, John Justice, Yeah, I really appreciate your time.

73
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,400
Speaker 2: This John Unroe, criminal defense lawyer.

74
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

75
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,480
Speaker 1: news talks they'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

76
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,280
Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio