1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,600
Speaker 1: Now media company ends at Me, which owns News Talk

2
00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,960
Speaker 1: ZB and The Herald, has reported today it's posted a

3
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,720
Speaker 1: small profit of one point nine million dollars for the

4
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,920
Speaker 1: first half of the year. That's down four point three

5
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,720
Speaker 1: on last year. Revenue is up. Advertising as holding steady,

6
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,440
Speaker 1: and that is despite the fact that the media sector

7
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 1: has had a pretty tough year so far. We've had

8
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: the shutting down of Newshub and TVNZ, cutting a whole

9
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: bunch of programs. Michael Boggs is the chief executive High Bogszen.

10
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 2: Good afternoon.

11
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 1: You must be pretty pleased with this result given what's

12
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,680
Speaker 1: going on in the media sector.

13
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,479
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. It is a very tough environment, I

14
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 2: think in every sector in New Zealand at the moment,

15
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,279
Speaker 2: but certainly as in media, and we're seeing that right

16
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:34,920
Speaker 2: around the market.

17
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 1: How did you manage to hold onto the advertising dollar?

18
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 1: I mean you've seen it completely evaporate from TV So

19
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 1: how did you guys keep it?

20
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 2: I think the key thing is, and I'll take a

21
00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 2: station like this, you know, we just don't go to

22
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,280
Speaker 2: the market and talk about selling News Talks ZB. We

23
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,479
Speaker 2: sell the rest of the radio stations we have. We

24
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 2: bundled out obviously with the New Zealand Herald, and we're

25
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 2: seeing fantastic growth with one Roof, which is a real

26
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 2: key product for us for the future.

27
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,000
Speaker 1: But so why are they putting their money into print

28
00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 1: and radio if they're not putting it into TV.

29
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 2: When we go and talk to a customer, we talk

30
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 2: about what's the solution they're looking for? What are you

31
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,760
Speaker 2: trying to achieve. We don't just come and try and

32
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,039
Speaker 2: sell you a TV ad, And so when a customer

33
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 2: wants to get to a particular audience set, we actually

34
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,640
Speaker 2: sell all of those platforms, which just gives them a

35
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,360
Speaker 2: much better reach and a much better outcome.

36
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 1: And getting a bit of product.

37
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

38
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, what do you think is going to happen

39
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 1: in the second half though, because it sounds like it

40
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:21,640
Speaker 1: might get harder.

41
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,680
Speaker 2: Certainly is and we're seeing that already. So in the

42
00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 2: quarter one of this year, so that's January March or

43
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 2: on a calendar year, we saw four percent growth year

44
00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,280
Speaker 2: on year, two percent in quarter two, and what we're

45
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,160
Speaker 2: seeing in quarter three at the moment is about one

46
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 2: percent growth. Now, we are seeing some signs of improvement,

47
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,839
Speaker 2: though we're obviously seeing the ocr coming down we're seeing

48
00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 2: business and consumer confidence start lifts, so you know, we'd

49
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 2: love to see that actually flow through to people spending.

50
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 1: One percent growth and what we're going through, which I

51
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: mean some people in some parts the economy is saying

52
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 1: this is the hardest thing they've ever been through. One

53
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,040
Speaker 1: percent growth is not bad.

54
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 2: Well, the great news is one percent growth is against

55
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,360
Speaker 2: the market because the market is actually going backwards from

56
00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,520
Speaker 2: an advertising perspective. So we're delighted to be taking, of course,

57
00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 2: each of our platforms and we want to continue doing that.

58
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 1: Hey, but so you'll rise right, we've seen the turning

59
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,840
Speaker 1: point where the ocr has now come down and a

60
00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 1: whole bunch of bank rates are coming down. Do you

61
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 1: think it still gets hard as thoh? Or does it

62
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 1: get easier?

63
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,640
Speaker 2: I think people's heads are starting to lift now. It's

64
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,600
Speaker 2: certainly tough, and you know, your listeners are no way

65
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,880
Speaker 2: better than I as they run their businesses, for example.

66
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:22,839
Speaker 2: But I think you know, I had an old boss

67
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,639
Speaker 2: that said hope isn't a strategy. But I think we're

68
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,600
Speaker 2: all hoping for better. We're actually talking about it getting better.

69
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 2: We're saying business confidence is feeling better, and that's all

70
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 2: we need. To get the country going again.

71
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,280
Speaker 1: Okay, I've hope it's not a strategy. Then you're going

72
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 1: to have to still make plans for it potentially to

73
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,200
Speaker 1: be worse. So you're going to cut six million out

74
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:39,160
Speaker 1: yet in expenditure.

75
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,480
Speaker 2: We've already done that, so it's not something we're announcing

76
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 2: today that hey we've got a whole lot of new

77
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 2: cost cutting to do. That's happened. It's done through efficiencies

78
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,079
Speaker 2: across the business, and so we're pleased we've actually done

79
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,080
Speaker 2: that at the beginning of this half already and so

80
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,680
Speaker 2: that'll flow into the second half of this year.

81
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,959
Speaker 1: How on earth am I right in thinking One Roof

82
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,119
Speaker 1: turned to profit for the first time?

83
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:56,919
Speaker 2: It absolutely did.

84
00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 1: How did it do that given what's going on in

85
00:02:58,720 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 1: the housing market.

86
00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,519
Speaker 2: Well, we're doing a great job. Firstly, we're growing the

87
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,360
Speaker 2: number of people that come to the site. We've closed

88
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 2: the gap to the number one player to be just

89
00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 2: ten percent difference. Now we've got more and more. We've

90
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 2: got more and more people upgrading their houses on the

91
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,560
Speaker 2: platform and it's a great product. So people are using

92
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 2: it to inquire about houses and people are using it

93
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 2: to sell the houses.

94
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,480
Speaker 1: So is it kind of counterintuity. When the market is

95
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,480
Speaker 1: actually doing really really badly, people are pumping a lot

96
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,520
Speaker 1: of money into the advertising for their houses.

97
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 2: Funny enough, it's actually the opposite. So we're really pleased

98
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 2: to have done well in a tough environment. Because if

99
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 2: you don't think you're going to sell the hell your house,

100
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,320
Speaker 2: you're probably not going to advertise, even though you probably should.

101
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,839
Speaker 2: Like where if you think you are going to sell

102
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,000
Speaker 2: your house, you will spend some more on advertising because

103
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,800
Speaker 2: you want to get the best price. So that's what

104
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,480
Speaker 2: we're looking for in the second half of this year

105
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 2: and into next year.

106
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so on what's going on with the media. Are

107
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,040
Speaker 1: you happy with what you've got from the government in

108
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,640
Speaker 1: terms of the Digital Marketing Bill and or Digital Bargain

109
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:49,680
Speaker 1: and Bill and all that stuff.

110
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,000
Speaker 2: Well, they're certainly making progress and we expect to see

111
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,120
Speaker 2: more of that in the coming weeks. All the noises

112
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 2: and signals are appropriate and I look forward to seeing

113
00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 2: it will come.

114
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 1: Tru are boggsy that it's the answer because it hasn't

115
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 1: worked in Canada.

116
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 2: Well, it's not going to be the panacea, but we

117
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 2: do know that all of the platforms, whether it be Google, Facebook,

118
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,400
Speaker 2: or whether it be all the new AAI organizations are

119
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,440
Speaker 2: taking a content and not paying it for us.

120
00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 1: This doesn't cover AI, does.

121
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 2: It may do?

122
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,680
Speaker 1: What? What do you know that I don't know.

123
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,480
Speaker 2: Well, we'll see what the legislation says. We'll see.

124
00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,840
Speaker 1: How are you guys still lobbying for the old AI

125
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 1: to be covered?

126
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 2: Well, why shouldn't it be? Does check GPT take all

127
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 2: of our data? Well?

128
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 1: I would argue with you that the AI should be covered,

129
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 1: actually more so than anything else. Yeah, so it feels

130
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 1: like it should be, but that doesn't mean that that

131
00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,920
Speaker 1: the guys in the beehive necessarily see it that way.

132
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 2: Well, if I ask chet GPT where it gets its

133
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 2: content from. Last time I did it, it said between ten

134
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 2: and fourteen percent of it came from the New Zealand Herald.

135
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,599
Speaker 1: Was it honest about it? Was it?

136
00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:44,719
Speaker 2: That's what I said? Yeah?

137
00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 1: Okay, Well that's that's a slam dunk, isn't it?

138
00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,160
Speaker 2: I think it is. And so that's where are we're

139
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 2: continuing to focus on. It should be included and we

140
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 2: should be paid for that content being used for these

141
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,080
Speaker 2: companies to earn income.

142
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,960
Speaker 1: Right, Boxy, what happened with the ad the Hobson's pledge ad.

143
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,960
Speaker 2: Hey, as you know, it was an a it's not

144
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 2: something that the company stands up and takes a position on.

145
00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,960
Speaker 2: We're absolutely reviewing guidelines. We're looking at what other companies

146
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 2: around the world do, and so you know, and they're

147
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,080
Speaker 2: not too distant future, you'll see us come out and

148
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 2: talk about whatever.

149
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,560
Speaker 1: Are you guys going to front foot and tell us

150
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,160
Speaker 1: if there's a change of position on this one.

151
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we're very clear on what we will do in

152
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 2: the future and be clear on it.

153
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: So what I didn't understand was it was kind of

154
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 1: obvious that a position needed to be taken on it

155
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,840
Speaker 1: during the election campaign because you remember, you will remember

156
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 1: the c to you the Union took out a personal

157
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 1: attack on Chris Luxon, who's now obviously the Prime minister,

158
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,320
Speaker 1: and that made a lot of people really angry. So

159
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,480
Speaker 1: why at that point didn't you guys make a decision

160
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 1: and say this kind of add becacy doesn't happen on

161
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:42,200
Speaker 1: the front page.

162
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,800
Speaker 2: And so I think that's a really good point and

163
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 2: something again that will review as part of these guidelines. Again, clearly,

164
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,720
Speaker 2: they're not ads that we're saying, this is a position

165
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,119
Speaker 2: we take as an organization. There's lots of arguments around

166
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 2: freedom of speech, but there's also and a lot of

167
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,200
Speaker 2: other arguments around making sure that you know we're not

168
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,080
Speaker 2: offending people. I've had plenty of subscriber feedback. I've had

169
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,080
Speaker 2: plenty of advertiser feedback in both directions. Oh really absolutely?

170
00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,320
Speaker 1: Okay? Have you lost any subscribers over it? We absolutely

171
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 1: have both both accounts. Yep. And have you lost any

172
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,160
Speaker 1: advertisers over absolutely? Really?

173
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 2: Quite a lot, not significant, but people have sent us

174
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 2: messages to let us know that they've got an.

175
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 1: Opinion and they're not happy, and so they've pulled out.

176
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:20,159
Speaker 2: That's right.

177
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:21,680
Speaker 1: How much damage does it cost you?

178
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 2: It's not significant, but it's certainly something worth taking into account.

179
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,720
Speaker 2: We're a corporate organization. We've got to do what's right

180
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:28,239
Speaker 2: for this business.

181
00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So when do you make a call, it won't

182
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 1: be far away, all right? Listen, Boggsy, thank you very

183
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,280
Speaker 1: much for being so frank with us. I really appreciates.

184
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,040
Speaker 1: Michael Bogg's the chief executive of enzed.

185
00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,120
Speaker 2: Me for more from Hither duplessy Alan Drive listen live

186
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:40,919
Speaker 2: to news talks.

187
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,120
Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

188
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio,