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Speaker 1: Two former members of a committee that is tasked with

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Speaker 1: checking over assisted deaths to ensure that the law has

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Speaker 1: worked as it should say the system is broken and

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't have known if someone had wrongly died. Doctors

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Speaker 1: Jane Greville and Una Wensley repeated repeatedly raised concerns about

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Speaker 1: complete information regarding a patient's health and the risk of coercion.

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Speaker 1: In one case, a patient with suspected dementia who couldn't

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Speaker 1: speak English was apparently approved for assisted dying without a

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Speaker 1: translator in the room. Act leader David Seymour was, of

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Speaker 1: course a major proponent for the End of Life Choice

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Speaker 1: Act and is with us now, God, A good.

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Speaker 2: Afternoon, Good afternoon.

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Speaker 1: What do you think of these concerns?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, these are two people that sound

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Speaker 2: somewhat aggrieved, and I'd want to know the full story.

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Speaker 2: But on the face of it, the law that I

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Speaker 2: helped make five years ago said that a physician must

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Speaker 2: communicate with the person who's seeking a sisted dying at

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Speaker 2: regular intervals suitable to the progression of their illness. Now

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Speaker 2: it is, I guess possible that in some cases you

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Speaker 2: might not communicate verbally, such as if that person was

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Speaker 2: unable to talk. However, you'd certainly want to inquire and

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Speaker 2: investigate how somebody could do that if they didn't have

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Speaker 2: the same language or a translator. But I think it's

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Speaker 2: a little unfair to say that there's no way to

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Speaker 2: investigate that. I just checked the annual report for the

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Speaker 2: year two during this year and it says that there

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Speaker 2: are twenty two complaints. There are three that remain ongoing

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Speaker 2: at the time of the twenty twenty four report, and

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Speaker 2: of those, by far, the most common complaint was people

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Speaker 2: being obstructed from trying to get access to his sister dying.

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Speaker 2: When they say, oh, there's not enough information and there's

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Speaker 2: no way that people and find out what's going on

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Speaker 2: through this process. Well, you know, people frequently make complaints

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Speaker 2: overwhelmingly that are closed in a short period of time,

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Speaker 2: and mostly actually people are not being able to get

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Speaker 2: access to assisted dying when they want.

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Speaker 1: It to be clear, though, physicians don't have to be

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Speaker 1: involved in end of life choice if they choose not

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Speaker 1: to and an assisted dying if they choose not to

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Speaker 1: to be on this panel operating in the roles that

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Speaker 1: these two doctors were operating in. Do they have to

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Speaker 1: be supporters of the Act in the first place.

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Speaker 2: No, it would be improper to ask about someone's political

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Speaker 2: position before appointing them to any government entity. But you

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Speaker 2: would hope that if they stepped up, then they would

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Speaker 2: at least be an agreement that it's a legitimate choice

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Speaker 2: for people to make, and prepared to administer the law

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Speaker 2: to the best of their abilities.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's my point is it's not necessarily a political perspective,

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Speaker 1: but rather a q of conscience, right, And it's not

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Speaker 1: your understanding that in order to be on this oversight

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Speaker 1: committee that they actually had to necessarily support end of

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Speaker 1: life choice and principle.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, Look, I've actually been involved in appointing new

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Speaker 2: people to the committee. I've had people put forward by

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Speaker 2: the Ministry of Health and recommended to me, and I've

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Speaker 2: certainly had a look at their credentials and what sort

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Speaker 2: of qualifications they have, whether they've made any public statements

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Speaker 2: for or against it, Because you certainly wouldn't want to

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Speaker 2: appoint someone who was one of these died and the

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Speaker 2: Wall opponents who sought to be appointed in order to

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Speaker 2: obstruct people from accessing what they have a right to

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Speaker 2: access under the law. But I certainly would have thought

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Speaker 2: that the key thing is are they capable of doing

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Speaker 2: the job and are they doing it in good faith?

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Speaker 1: Doctor Greville says that the committee was quote restrained to

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Speaker 1: the point of irrelevance. I know you said that the

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Speaker 1: Act was imperfect when it was introduced. Are these changes

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Speaker 1: you would make to the committee's overside?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it's important to acknowledge that one of

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Speaker 2: the things I put in the Act is the need

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Speaker 2: to have a review after the first three years and

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Speaker 2: then every five years after that. So the first review

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Speaker 2: is happening now because the Act came into force in

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Speaker 2: November twenty twenty one, So the report will come out

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Speaker 2: next month on the first three years. And I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm not responsible for the bill anymore. It's been passed

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Speaker 2: its own by everybody. But I certainly personally would be

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Speaker 2: be open to listening to what people say and making changes.

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Speaker 2: I just if you don't mind me just challenging one

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Speaker 2: thing I've said there when I said it was imperfect,

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Speaker 2: I actually think that we made it overly restrictive, in

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Speaker 2: particular for political reasons to get the numbers to pass it.

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Speaker 2: I actually put a six month requirement, so you have

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Speaker 2: to have two doctors say you're likely to die within

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Speaker 2: six months. There's some people with conditions such as Huntington's

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Speaker 2: mode neuron disease long term degenerative diseases who won't die

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Speaker 2: within six months, but that just means that they're suffering

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Speaker 2: even more. I think they should have a choice. And

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Speaker 2: Todd Stevenson, whom you interviewed on your TV show a

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Speaker 2: few weeks ago, has actually brought a bill to Parliament

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Speaker 2: which I hope will be debated soon to actually widen

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Speaker 2: access in that regard. So when you say, I say

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Speaker 2: it's imperfect, that's the that's the criticism I have my own.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, sorry, I didn't mean. I wasn't trying to

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Speaker 1: resume you misrep visin you. I mean, yeah, you were

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Speaker 1: pretty clear about that at the time and felt that

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Speaker 1: that was a compromise that allowed the allowed the builder

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Speaker 1: pass into law. Hey, just before we let you go,

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Speaker 1: O CR thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Well, New Zealanders have finally got off the nauseating rollercoaster

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Speaker 2: of fiscal and monetary policy. I thought your intro was

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Speaker 2: very good. It's the start of relief, but it is

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Speaker 2: still going to take a while to kick in, and

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Speaker 2: people are making choices about when to refix their mortgage

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Speaker 2: rates and so on. For my money, I'd go with

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Speaker 2: a six month fix and just hedge and see where

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Speaker 2: they go for the next six months. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't think people should take that sort of financial

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Speaker 2: advice from politicians, just as a disclaimer. I think what's

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Speaker 2: most important now is that we do our job and

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Speaker 2: continue to tighten our belt and find efficiencies as a government.

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Speaker 2: Because every time the government overspends or waste money that

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Speaker 2: is competing with the private sector with households and businesses,

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Speaker 2: and they're really hurting. So we still have our job

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Speaker 2: to do containing our spending. I think you'll see ongoing

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Speaker 2: what's trained in the next budget that allows the Reserve

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Speaker 2: Bank to stop this roller coaster where I think they

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Speaker 2: pushed us too high for too long, but they had

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Speaker 2: to because they'd gone too low during COVID, And now

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Speaker 2: we're getting off that roller coaster at the other end,

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Speaker 2: marcious and poor for the experience.

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Speaker 1: For more from here, they allen Drive listen live to

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Speaker 1: news talks.

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Speaker 2: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio.