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Speaker 1: The investigation into the moldy school lunch drama in christ

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Speaker 1: you just completed and really it's not actually clear what

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Speaker 1: happened here, but the food safety guys still think the

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Speaker 1: most likely problem was food left over at the school

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Speaker 1: rather out of the fridge for the weekend. David Seymour

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Speaker 1: is the Associate Ministry of Education Morning.

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Speaker 2: David Hey heither, so, what is the most.

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Speaker 1: Likely thing that they think here has happened.

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Speaker 2: They think that at the school there were some meals

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Speaker 2: that had been delivered the previous week. They were stored

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Speaker 2: somewhere in the school, probably in the cafeteria, and some

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Speaker 2: of those old meals got handed out with the new

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Speaker 2: ones that had been delivered that day. This is after

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Speaker 2: Food Safety in New Zealand have been to the school

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Speaker 2: that have been all over Compass like Krash, and the

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Speaker 2: main thing they notice is that on the day that

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Speaker 2: the moldy lunches were handed out, there were fifteen other

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Speaker 2: schools that got them, but also that there were many

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Speaker 2: other parts of the Heartier Community campus where the lunches

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Speaker 2: were handed out Those ones were fine. So it seems

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Speaker 2: that it wasn't just one school that was one part

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Speaker 2: of one school where there seemed to be some lunches

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Speaker 2: that were different from all the other ones that day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how is it though, that we can't prove this

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Speaker 1: is just a guess, right, We can't prove it totally.

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Speaker 1: Is there no paperwork? Is there nothing like this that

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Speaker 1: actually formally records what is going on?

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess to really ever be absolutely certain about

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Speaker 2: what happened, you'd have to basically have a tracking device

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Speaker 2: on every single lunch. Now that's not viable, but we

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Speaker 2: do have a scenario where in order to believe that

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Speaker 2: it was anything else, there have to be something extraordinary

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Speaker 2: that no one else can figure out. Whereas there's a

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Speaker 2: completely thaucible explanation that the same lunch was served four

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Speaker 2: days earlier. This school had had a teacher only day,

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Speaker 2: so hadn't had any other lunches delivered, and it had

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Speaker 2: a long term practice of having several boxs that were

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Speaker 2: kind of kept. Some lunches were put aside in this

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Speaker 2: cafeteria area where students were able to come and get

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Speaker 2: extras if they wanted to. Well, the few of those

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Speaker 2: turned out to have been there a bit longer than

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Speaker 2: they should have been.

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Speaker 1: Now, listen on the subject of this exact school. I

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Speaker 1: see the school's got a bit of rap of a

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Speaker 1: bit of a rap over the knuckles for spending about

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Speaker 1: close to nineteen thousand dollars for the principle and the

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Speaker 1: senior leadership team to go to Queenstown and there was

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Speaker 1: no clear business purpose. Now what happens here? Are there

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Speaker 1: consequences for this kind of spending?

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Speaker 2: Well, the government had a policy several years back before

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Speaker 2: the election of giving out these funds to select schools.

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Speaker 2: Whether that program continues and how it's managed, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: will be up to Erica Stanford. But I think the

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Speaker 2: point of this audit is that school communities can decide

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Speaker 2: what to make of their processes and management. Remember, we

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Speaker 2: have self governing schools through boards of trustees in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: I guess people might start to ask themselves, look this

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Speaker 2: whole saga, it was unreasonable to have a principal who

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Speaker 2: was out in the media for a week when in reality,

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Speaker 2: Food Safety New Zealand completed their assessment within ten days,

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Speaker 2: which is lightning speed for most things that happen in government.

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Speaker 2: And if they were just open about what might have

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Speaker 2: been the possibility we could have waited till now we

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Speaker 2: could have saved a week of dramas.

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Speaker 1: This whole spending thing has come out because the Order

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Speaker 1: to General has had a look at all this like

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of schools. Really, it's not just this school.

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Speaker 1: The thing that occurred to me when I was reading

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Speaker 1: about it and listening to it was that I wonder

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Speaker 1: if the days of boards of trustees running schools actually

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Speaker 1: should be numbered, because we're just asking very ordinary people

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Speaker 1: to approve some reasonable spending. Do you think that it's

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Speaker 1: maybe an outdated idea.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's long been an argument. That's what the Tomorrow's

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Speaker 2: Schools model. It started in nineteen eighty nine. It's got

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Speaker 2: school boards elected from the community running schools, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of communities it actually works fantastically well. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: seem to work so well in some communities where they

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Speaker 2: just don't have the people to elect in it. So

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Speaker 2: you know, in a very I guess a high decile

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Speaker 2: area it seems to work quite well, and others it

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Speaker 2: sometimes doesn't. I mean, one reason I push charter schools

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Speaker 2: is it gives you a different model of governance, so

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Speaker 2: you can draw on different people, and that seems to

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Speaker 2: work quite well in a lot of places already, So look,

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Speaker 2: you can have that debate, but all I would say

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Speaker 2: in this particular instance, as I feel for the school community,

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Speaker 2: I feel for the students because frankly, you know, this

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Speaker 2: is an example where it would have been easier if

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Speaker 2: everyone just took a breath, said Okay, where did these

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Speaker 2: lunches come from? Keep an open mind, whereas I've had

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Speaker 2: to spend a week responding in the media to what

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Speaker 2: happened to twenty lunches.

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Speaker 1: Would you consider supporting any kind of social media ban

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Speaker 1: or restriction for under sixteens if it works an Aussie?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the right thing to do is

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Speaker 2: to watch what happens in Australia. There are really good

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Speaker 2: reasons to think that it may not work. Maybe one

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Speaker 2: obvious one is what if kids end up doing other

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Speaker 2: stuff on the Internet that could be worse than these

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Speaker 2: platforms that are being banned, Or they sneak on with

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Speaker 2: VPNs and suddenly they're unwilling to talk to adults about

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Speaker 2: what they're experiencing because they think they're doing something naughty.

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Speaker 2: That's something that you should keep in mind. I think

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Speaker 2: that parents overwhelmingly are distressed and want someone to be

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Speaker 2: on their side in this battle to be safe online,

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Speaker 2: but a blunt tool that could make it worse is

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Speaker 2: not doing them a service. It's doing them and especially

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Speaker 2: the children, are disserviced.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff. Listen, David, thanks very much for your time.

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Speaker 1: That's David Seymour, Associate Minister of Education. For more from

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Speaker 1: the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks that'd

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