1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,840
Speaker 1: Barry Soper, Senior Political Correspondence with US. Hey Barry, Good afternoon, Heathery.

2
00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:05,640
Speaker 1: So what does Luxon sound like? Does he sound like

3
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: he's keen on following the example of the Aussies with

4
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:08,160
Speaker 1: the social media.

5
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 2: Yes, well I will. I'll play him in a sect,

6
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:16,160
Speaker 2: but yes he does. And like you said in your introduction, Heather,

7
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 2: that the tech giants would be responsible for banning kids

8
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,600
Speaker 2: under sixteen, it'd be a revolutionary task to take on

9
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,000
Speaker 2: because no one else in the world does it at

10
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 2: that age. Anyway, the new laws were presented to the

11
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,800
Speaker 2: state and territory leaders in Australia this week and they'll

12
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 2: be introduced to Parliament in late November, so they're going

13
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,840
Speaker 2: ahead with it. It'll be interesting to see how it works. Meta,

14
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,959
Speaker 2: the parent company of Facebook and Instagram, they say that

15
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 2: they'll respect any age limitation the government wants to introduce.

16
00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,720
Speaker 2: Now they're being very cooperative here, and if they are,

17
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 2: you'd think that would be the battle one. But I

18
00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,120
Speaker 2: think it'll be a pretty hard one to implement. Neverth

19
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 2: you were going to say it's something, but.

20
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,639
Speaker 1: Nevertheless you think it will be hard to imply, well.

21
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,480
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, how a kid can hit a

22
00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,760
Speaker 2: button saying yes, I am sixteen years old, and.

23
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,600
Speaker 1: That's not how you do it. So how you do it?

24
00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,280
Speaker 1: There are a bunch of ways that you can do

25
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,399
Speaker 1: it right. But what you essentially want to do is

26
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: you want to have a third party, like let's say

27
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,959
Speaker 1: the government that verifies your age. So I'm going to

28
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 1: use you as an example. So you Barry Sober, you

29
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,319
Speaker 1: send in. The government knows how old you are, right,

30
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: you're above the age of eighteen. It's you have a

31
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,120
Speaker 1: verified token or something like that online that says this

32
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,560
Speaker 1: account user is over the age of eighteen, which allows

33
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 1: you then to have a social media account do all

34
00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 1: these things right, So that's what you do for the kids.

35
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,039
Speaker 1: And if they're not over the age of eighteen, then

36
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 1: they're not age verified. They don't get to have it. Now.

37
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,279
Speaker 1: This also will solve a whole bunch of other problems

38
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: for us potentially, where we have thirteen year old kids

39
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 1: and younger eight year old kids going on porn websites.

40
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 1: Now you can start to prohibit that as well. We've

41
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 1: we've got to get on top of the totally freedom

42
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,000
Speaker 1: and look, the tech solution is out there. They just

43
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,080
Speaker 1: don't want to find it because these guys.

44
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:09,960
Speaker 2: Don't get wound up here.

45
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,799
Speaker 1: Social media companies want the kids hooked on their product, don't.

46
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I to only agree. Well, the idea was

47
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 2: put to Chris Luckson today and I've got to say

48
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 2: he seems quite keen on it, listened to it.

49
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 3: But I've got some interest in that idea actually, you know,

50
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,079
Speaker 3: just with respect to what we've seen with respect to

51
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 3: cyber bullying in particular in New Zealand, and we've seen

52
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,800
Speaker 3: some real advantage of the cell phone band across the schools.

53
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 3: But that's something that frankly Cabinet hasn't discussed in detail.

54
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 3: But that's something that I'd be open to discussing in

55
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 3: the future.

56
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 2: So certainly there are other issues that are probably more

57
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:43,800
Speaker 2: pressing for the government at.

58
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 1: The moment, but cyber bullying is the least emergent.

59
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,400
Speaker 2: I would imagine that it will be before Cabinet before too.

60
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,680
Speaker 1: I would love to and you know what, kudos to

61
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,760
Speaker 1: the Aussies for having the bulls to Actually, now I'm

62
00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,639
Speaker 1: a little bit disappointed to see the Order to General

63
00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,799
Speaker 1: doesn't want to get involved in the Casey Costello stuff.

64
00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,680
Speaker 2: Well, look, technically it's not the Order to General's job. Now,

65
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 2: Aischeverel made a big deal about calling the Order to

66
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,560
Speaker 2: General in Well, I think the letter that she got

67
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 2: back is pretty self explanatory. Actually, it came from the

68
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,520
Speaker 2: Deputy Order to General Andrew McConnell. He said that the

69
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 2: office can hold public organizations to account for their performance

70
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,240
Speaker 2: and use of public money, but was unable to express

71
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 2: views on the merits of government policy decisions. I mean,

72
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,560
Speaker 2: if you want to really take it further, you go

73
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,120
Speaker 2: to the Ombudsman and talk about, you know, whether something

74
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 2: is okay or not. They can include examining a decision

75
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:51,600
Speaker 2: maker basically whether it's appropriate on an agreed process that

76
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,520
Speaker 2: has taken place, but they can't when a government makes

77
00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,119
Speaker 2: a decision on policy. It's not the Order to General's job.

78
00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,000
Speaker 2: And to me it just shows the Aischa Viral, being

79
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,520
Speaker 2: a relatively new MP, should really understand what the role

80
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 2: of the Order to generally.

81
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,600
Speaker 1: I'm only disappointed because I thought that if the AG

82
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 1: got involved, at least we could put one of the

83
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 1: world's most boring stories to bed.

84
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 3: Well.

85
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 2: I could more with that, and you know, and not

86
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 2: a great deal has been made by the media. I

87
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:27,040
Speaker 2: think that Aischa Viral's sister in law was unbeknown what

88
00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:33,000
Speaker 2: she was un costello in her Now you know, honestly,

89
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,279
Speaker 2: this has been a mess from start to finish.

90
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,600
Speaker 1: Hey what about Seymour having a crack at the nets.

91
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it. I mean, look, they

92
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 2: can beg to differ and that's part of their coalition

93
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,839
Speaker 2: agreement with varying parties. But I think you know, what

94
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,320
Speaker 2: David Seymour doing is showing that we can make the

95
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,000
Speaker 2: hard decisions. We've bought the Treaty Principal's Bill into parliament. Well,

96
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 2: you know, you go. And he says that the government

97
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,360
Speaker 2: is essentially averse to taking on hard issues. Well he

98
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,080
Speaker 2: said it on Hosking this morning. When you look at

99
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,839
Speaker 2: outlawing gang patches, it's not a hard issue. Well it's

100
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 2: pretty hard. That's good, you're really Well, it's popular. Are

101
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 2: scrapping the Moley Health Authority, that's.

102
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,320
Speaker 1: A hard that's a hard decision.

103
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,920
Speaker 2: The tunnel decision in Wellington.

104
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 1: That's a hard decision.

105
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,600
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a pretty hard decision. Really. Well

106
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 2: he's got a point.

107
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 1: He's got a point. But Luxon and the people who

108
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,480
Speaker 1: are advising him are terrified of dealing with the treaty

109
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,719
Speaker 1: issue right, either either they don't understand it, or that terrified.

110
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 2: Of being because I think we should be having the debate.

111
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,599
Speaker 1: Or that terrified of being labeled racists or whatever. But

112
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 1: Chris Luckson has not mounted a coherent and convincing argument

113
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:45,919
Speaker 1: as to why he doesn't want to go here, because

114
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,120
Speaker 1: actually there is a there is a convincing argument as

115
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:48,839
Speaker 1: to the way we should.

116
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,040
Speaker 2: David Seeman would think that Hope is still alive because

117
00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,840
Speaker 2: you know he's going on social media. Dear I say it,

118
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 2: and really appealing to the public over and above the

119
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 2: politicians at this overwhelming support on this and submissions to

120
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,240
Speaker 2: the Select Committee. Who knows what the government might do.

121
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,000
Speaker 2: Although I'd say that it's too late for the National

122
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 2: Party to back down.

123
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,000
Speaker 1: Now Lackson's painted himself and bloody awkward call it on

124
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,920
Speaker 1: this one. I think. Okay, Barry, thanks, I really appreciate it.

125
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,479
Speaker 1: We'll wrap the political week that was with you later

126
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,760
Speaker 1: on quarter past six. It's Barry Sober, Senior Political correspondent.

127
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,520
Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

128
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,679
Speaker 1: news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

129
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,480
Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio