1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Pully away from six the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: International Realty find You're one of a kind huddle. We've 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: got Stuart Ash, former Labor Party minister, and Thomas Scrimger 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: of the Maxim Institute. Highlights here about now, Stu, you 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: being a former police minister, can answer this for me. 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: This is read the shoplifting on the spot finds. Can 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: police actually hand them out before determining guilt through a court? 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure they can. Yeah, I mean this is a 9 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: major problem. When I was Minister of Police but also 10 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: Minister of Small Business. This is a this is a 11 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: real problem. Coss retailers literally hundreds of millions of dollars 12 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: a year in this and they can get away with 13 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: scott free because there was no fines. Cops realize that 14 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: there's no pointing horn in front of the courts because 15 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: the cost of doing that was massively disproportionate to the 16 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: amount that they'd stolen. So really there was no there 17 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: was no solution. So I'm a big fan of I 18 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: do see the downside. The downside is that these people 19 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: who really won't be able to afford the fifty bucks 20 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: or whatever or five hundred dollars. Well, then just just 21 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: owing a whole lot of money to the point where 22 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: they probably will some of them. 23 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: Some of them have got lots of money and still 24 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: shoplift a lah gol garment, but so they can afford it. 25 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: But I still am not sure because surely if you're 26 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: standing there, the cops says to you, can you shoplifted, 27 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: here's a five hundred dollar fine, you could go No, 28 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: I didn't, and then they can't give it to you 29 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: because you are denying guilt. 30 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: Most most of the time, it's reasonably obvious if you 31 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: do so, you know, still. 32 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: Deny it unless you accept you can't be fined, right, Yeah, well, look, 33 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: very obvious workaround. 34 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, the cops will sort this out, there's no doubt 35 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: about this. But what it does do is it seems 36 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: a very clear signal and a really important signal that 37 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: there's a society in our communities. We will not tolerate 38 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: people who go and signal. 39 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: But I need it to work as well, Thomas, can 40 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: you tell me what you think? I'm not convinced, Heather. 41 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 3: I think you're onto something with enforceability questions. I mean, 42 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: I like the idea that finds a process quicker as 43 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 3: opposed to dragging people through the courts for shoplifting, which 44 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: just takes too long to be a proper deterrent. But 45 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: we know already the cops are struggling to enforce a 46 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: bunch of things. Just last week we were reading in 47 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 3: the news about trespass notices for women who've been victims 48 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: of domestic violence, and I think the phrase was not 49 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 3: worth the paper they're written on. And if cops can't 50 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 3: enforce tresspass notices against specific individuals who are already being identified, 51 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 3: I'm not sure how much this will actually be able 52 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 3: to be imposed upon people. Even though it's a nice idea, 53 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 3: it has this kind of proportionality. A fine of five 54 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 3: hundred bucks for you know, shoplifting up to five hundred bucks, 55 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: that's neat, But I'm a bit of a skeptic about 56 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 3: how much of a difference it will make. 57 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, ste somebody's texted and said, it's like a 58 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: speeding ticket, right, you get the speeding ticket, and then 59 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: it's presume the onus is on you to disprove that 60 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: you should pay the speeding ticket. Would work like that 61 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: or would it be the other way around, where the 62 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: owners is on the cop to prove to get you 63 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: to accept guilt. 64 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: Look, the bottom line, Heather is cops prioritize jobs as 65 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: they come through, and shoplifting will be the least you 66 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: can imagine. But what we are seeing, and certainly in Napier, 67 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: we've sing a lot more men and women in blue 68 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: sort of wandering the streets, keeping people safe in being seen. 69 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 2: I hope it does work. I don't know if it'll 70 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: be a deterrent, but I hope it does work. But 71 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: you know, you may call it virtue signaling, or some 72 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 2: people may call it virtual virtue signaling. I don't have 73 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 2: a problem with that, because you know, the problem is 74 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: shoplifting is costing US hundreds of millions of dollars. At 75 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: least someone is looking to do something about it. The 76 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: cops will determine the best way to enforce it, so 77 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 2: let's leave it up to them. 78 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: Now, what do you think, Thomas about funding wegovy should 79 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: we do it publicly? 80 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 3: Well, I'm not really convinced we should be doing it publicly. 81 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 3: I mean, it's a bit of a shortcut drug, but 82 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: I'm sure it helps some people. But the bigger question 83 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: is why is this trial by media the National Party 84 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: in the last election campaign, we're talking about we are 85 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: going to fund thirteen cancer drugs and just overriding Farmac's processes. 86 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 3: And if you're a WGOV kind of shadowy lobbyist, if 87 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: you want a trial by media to pressure a government 88 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: or a government agency to funder thing, my thinking is, 89 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: why are we even talking about it? Let the analysts. 90 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: Figure it out. 91 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you reckonsume? 92 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: Well, here the you know, you and I are the 93 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: wrong people to talk about it, right because we spend 94 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: hours in the gym most days and we eat healthily, 95 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: and don't you still of course, well, you know you 96 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: got to keep fitting healthy at our age, at my age. 97 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: The bottom line is is I think if you've got 98 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: a medical problem that means that obesity into an outcome, 99 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 2: then it probably should be a prescription and it probably 100 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: should be funded. If you're just a fat bastard has 101 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: eaten too many pies and a lot of chips and 102 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: drunk too much coke, then the evidence shows if you're 103 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: on this drug, it's supressus hunger. Once you get off it, 104 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: then you're back to your your core weight, which is 105 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: your heaviest weight. So you've got to be on the 106 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: droke for life. You know, I am a little bit 107 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: you know, I'm probably not in the majority here, but 108 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 2: I'm a little bit about personal responsibility. Having said that, 109 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: it's a tricky one because you know, one in three 110 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: adults in New Zealand a class is obese. The cost 111 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 2: of the health system of treating diabetes and other health 112 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: related diseases is massive, it really is. 113 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, Stu, do you reckon because you know, if 114 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 1: you're doing the weights, you really need those muscles to 115 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: pop right, You need to shread for it. Would you 116 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: give yourself a little with goovi just just to get 117 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: that looking rule tight? 118 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: No way. I would just eat less, calves more protein 119 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: and work a little bit harder. 120 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: I love it. Personal responsibility or take a break the 121 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary results 122 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: with unparallel reach. Check with the huddle. We've got Thomas 123 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: Skrimja and Stewart Nash. Thomas, what do you make of 124 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: act publicly confirming that that had this fighting cabinet with 125 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: national about removing that treaty principles from the legislation. 126 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 3: Well, obviously it's a bit of a bit of trouble 127 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 3: for National because the coalition partners on a range of issues. 128 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 3: They're getting to, I guess, determine what the storyline is 129 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: to make a bit of noise Act to vocal about this. 130 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: The National really just don't want to talk. But I think, 131 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: you know, we don't want to let Act be the 132 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 3: ones who just say on education is just about academic excellence. 133 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 3: You know, there are other things that matter. We have 134 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: an education system that is about creating citizens and so 135 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: you know the Treaty of White tonguey. Stories of nationhood 136 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: and citizenship matter as well. So National needs to be 137 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,559 Speaker 3: confident to tell a different story that isn't the old 138 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 3: system that Labor had in place and that Stuart was 139 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 3: in government for. Or Act noise making as well. So 140 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 3: the National need to be bolder about it. 141 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: I whan the trouble that National has got there is 142 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: that every time they do something where they where they 143 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: try to kind of you know, pull a quick one 144 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: on us. Do you they just get busted by Act, 145 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: don't they you? 146 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 2: No? No, I agree, I have a real problem with us. 147 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: First and foremost. If this was so important to David Seymour, 148 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: it should have been the coalition agreement and it wasn't. Secondly, 149 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 2: he is bound by cabinet responsibility. He has agreed to 150 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: disagree clause, so he can come out and say I 151 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: don't agree with the cabinet decision, which is a big 152 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 2: call to make. But he has that card up asleep, 153 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: which he didn't use. And I heard the Ministry of 154 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: Education in view to Mike Hoskin about this, and I 155 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: completely agree with her. There is a wider review at 156 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: the moment of treaty clauses in all legislation. The Treaty 157 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: of White Tangi clause is throughout the Education Act. If 158 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: you just take it out in one section, then then 159 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: that leads to a whole lot more trouble than just 160 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: leaving it and then waiting for the wider review. I 161 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: think David is being very well, well, if you're going 162 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: to take it out of the Education Act at a 163 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: one clause, you take it out of the whole Act. 164 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: But as the as Eric Stanford said, there is a 165 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: wider review going on by. 166 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: You know, give it this though, stud because you're going 167 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: to I mean, if you're going to take it out 168 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: of it, just take it out of the bit that 169 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: you're working on at the moment, you don't need it. 170 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: Take it out right, and then then when Goldie goes 171 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: through and reviews everything, he can take all the bits out. 172 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: There's no point, though, leaving it there for him to 173 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: find if you're going to take it out anyway. No, 174 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: the reason that you leave it there is because you're 175 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: not planning to take it out. You're planning to rewrite it. 176 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: No, No, that's not true. So my understanding is Erica 177 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 2: has actually taken it out of a primary objective and 178 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: put it into the second objective. What she has said 179 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: is the primary objective his educational attainment. And we all 180 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: agree on that. But as mentioned, David is breaking cabinet 181 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: confidence and if it was so important to him, why 182 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: didn't he put this in the coalition agreement? This is 183 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: David playing politics and I think it's I think it's 184 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: a little bit mediocre. 185 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: Okay, are you going to miss Thomas the Jaffers? 186 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: Well, I wanted to say that I am going to 187 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 3: miss the Jaffers, that I'm missing this treasured treat, but 188 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 3: I can't remember the last time I actually bought one, 189 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 3: so probably a bit of a hypocritical thing to say. 190 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: I mean, I think if they come back with a 191 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 3: splash in the near future, you know, I might then 192 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 3: be sucked into buying one when they come back from 193 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 3: the dead. But honestly, they're not a regular habit for me. 194 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: Fly by night such an admission of exactly how we 195 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: behave there, Thomas stew of course you would never let 196 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: a thing like this cross your lips. 197 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: Well, that's why you that's why you go to the 198 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: Jim here to say you can have the odd treat. 199 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: But I'm a hard Jubes man, truth be not. Remember 200 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: the last time I had a Jeffer Jefferson's. On the 201 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: other hand, now that is the top biscuit out there. 202 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 2: But Jeffers not sut of my scene. I'm afraid. Really yeah, 203 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: I love them over any day every day. 204 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: Oh that's bold. Okay, guys, thank you very much. Appreciate that. 205 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: Stuart Nash and Thomas Scrimscher a huddle this evening. For 206 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news Talks. 207 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 208 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.