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Speaker 1: So the US Supreme Court overnight decided that Trump or

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Speaker 1: the president really does have some level of immunity, but

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Speaker 1: not complete immunity when it comes to his action six '

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Speaker 1: to three decision, Sotamoyo went off. It means the case

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Speaker 1: goes back to a lower court will not be heard

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Speaker 1: before the election, which is part of this equation, of course.

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Speaker 1: So where are we at, Philip Bumpers with the Washington

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Speaker 1: Post of course, and is back. Well that's Pilip, very

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Speaker 1: good morning to you, you too. How political is this

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Speaker 1: versus how legal?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to say. I mean, there's obviously it's

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Speaker 2: deeply intertwined with politics, almost inescapably. So you know, the

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Speaker 2: majority on the court would certainly argue that it is

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Speaker 2: solely an assessment of the legal issues at hand. I

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Speaker 2: think that it is hard to defend. They sort of

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Speaker 2: used the issue of Donald Trum having been indicted on

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Speaker 2: these ceteral charges as a rationale to create this sense

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Speaker 2: of immunity, which they pointed out had never been needed before,

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Speaker 2: but of courses because there had never been before been

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Speaker 2: an attempt to overturn the results of election. So you know,

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Speaker 2: it is it is inescapably political. But they would argue

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Speaker 2: that it is a legalistic assessment.

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Speaker 1: Is the crux of it who decides when he's president

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Speaker 1: and when he wasn't.

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Speaker 2: No, the crux of it is to what extent can

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Speaker 2: the decisions that Donald Trump made in his effort to

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Speaker 2: try and retain power be excused as these sorts of

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Speaker 2: things that he was doing as president? Right? So, you know,

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Speaker 2: for example, if he went to the attorney general and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: you should investigate these people because there was voter fraud,

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Speaker 2: the repoard says that counts as presidential action and therefore

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Speaker 2: immune because that's something a president does stocks the attorney general.

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Speaker 2: If he went to the state of Arizona and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: State of Arizona, you need to overturn your election results,

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Speaker 2: that's something he was doing as a candidate and not

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Speaker 2: as a president, you know, not as part of his

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Speaker 2: presidential duties. Therefore he's not immune prosecution on that. But

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Speaker 2: the return to the Lower Court was on the question

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Speaker 2: of his pressuring Vice President Penpce to reject electors certain states.

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Speaker 2: They are saying that the lower court needs to decide

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Speaker 2: was that something that was part of his president's duties

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Speaker 2: or not?

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Speaker 1: Okay, when Stamil says, orders the Navy Sealed Team six

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Speaker 1: to assassinate a political rival immune. Is she right?

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Speaker 2: Yes, she's right that if he says, as the commander

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Speaker 2: in chief of the US military that the Sealed Team

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Speaker 2: six should go and murder Joe Biden, you know, assuming

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Speaker 2: that he's president, assuming that Trump is president, that he

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Speaker 2: has right to do so, that Biden could do solicer's

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Speaker 2: it right. So there are of course other remedies that

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Speaker 2: could play here. For example, that he could be impeached

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Speaker 2: by the House and then remove from office by the Senate.

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Speaker 2: We obviously saw that didn't work very well in terms

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Speaker 2: of holding Trump to account when he was actually president,

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Speaker 2: but he could not be prosecuted for that under this

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Speaker 2: interpretation of the Supreme courts.

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Speaker 1: It goes back to court, of course, not until after

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Speaker 1: the election. Can we call this then for him for now?

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Speaker 2: When? Oh yeah, unquestionably, I mean this is this is

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Speaker 2: a non application of how presidential power is understood that

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump asked for explicitly, and that the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 2: you know, the distinction between presidential immune for things he

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Speaker 2: did as a presidential action and not it's a very

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Speaker 2: very subtle distinction. Essentially, this gives him everything that he

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Speaker 2: wanted to mention.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. Nice to catch up with you appreciate it very much.

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Speaker 1: Phlip Bump out of the Washington Post this morning. The

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Speaker 1: side of my old stuff is fascinating. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: not just the maybe to organized as a military coup

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Speaker 1: to hold on to power. Immune takes a bribe in

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Speaker 1: exchange for a pardon. Immune. In fact, she finishes Immune

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Speaker 1: Immune Immune with fear for our democracy. I dissent. So

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Speaker 1: these are strange and weird times, aren't they. For more

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Speaker 1: from the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks.

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