Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2: The Open Class. Why yeah, Baby, Oh sorry, yeah, welcome back.
Speaker 2: It's the Weekend Collective. Roman Travism for tempton Beverage. Man,
Speaker 2: that's a great song. Joining us at this hour is
Speaker 2: a wonderful Max Whitehead for smart Money.
Speaker 3: Get a there, Max, Jeez, I love that song. I'd
Speaker 3: make that my signature if I could really really love it,
Speaker 3: I'd probably play it on my phone for people to
Speaker 3: bring up and get some some advice.
Speaker 2: Why didn't realize you could dance? That was incredible while
Speaker 2: dancing on a cheer though, good movements there, Max. Look,
Speaker 2: it's good to see you. And with a fresh year
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, here we go at a wobbly economy,
Speaker 2: it's always good to get the dust off the old
Speaker 2: CV and make sure it's up to date. I'll tell
Speaker 2: you what I had to redo my CV a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago. Man, everything's changed, everything's changed. So where
Speaker 2: should you start and what should you include in your CV?
Speaker 2: And how can you make sure your application stands out
Speaker 2: from the rest of the pile.
Speaker 3: Well, good questions and look at it all depends on
Speaker 3: totally what the type of job you're after, but certainly
Speaker 3: what you've got to look at it from a perspective.
Speaker 3: Always think about it. What does the employer want rather
Speaker 3: than what you want? So turn it round and if
Speaker 3: they want somebody smart, they want somebody reliable, someone who's
Speaker 3: going to turn up on time. Those are the fundamentals
Speaker 3: that employers are looking for. So first off you need
Speaker 3: to tick off those boxes. But then you need to
Speaker 3: do some research on that company and you need to
Speaker 3: go right into it quite deeply, so you know, look
Speaker 3: at their supplies, those sort of people, talk to them
Speaker 3: if you can. If you know the business quite well,
Speaker 3: you know there's a lot of people that you can
Speaker 3: actually talk to in regards to their staff as well,
Speaker 3: and get a bit of a feel for what is
Speaker 3: it actually wanting, what the role will be acquiring before
Speaker 3: you even front up and even put that CV together.
Speaker 2: Great advice, and I reckon the best thing to do
Speaker 2: apart from all of that is to call Can you
Speaker 2: give a free chat with Max right now? Max Whitehead
Speaker 2: and Employment Relations Expert eight hundred eight ten eighty. You
Speaker 2: can text if you want to nine two nine to two.
Speaker 2: You are much better off calling the free phone number
Speaker 2: and having that chat. So CVS, when I was at
Speaker 2: school back and there were dinosaurs, it was it was
Speaker 2: a time you should have seen us.
Speaker 3: It was a long time ago, that was nineteen thirty four.
Speaker 2: Well it wasn't far off it, you asked David Seymore
Speaker 2: he thinks I'm a dinosaur.
Speaker 3: You're not a dinosaur.
Speaker 2: No, you should hear what he had to say. Anyway,
Speaker 2: So going back your full work history, that's what I
Speaker 2: was told to do. And then recently when I have
Speaker 2: my CV redone a couple of years ago.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, not, you only.
Speaker 2: Need the last three or four years or the last
Speaker 2: three or four significant roles. Is that true?
Speaker 3: Less is more? Yeah, it really is the new way
Speaker 3: about it. Because you imagine they're going to get a
Speaker 3: pile of CVS coming through. They're going to glance at
Speaker 3: it now. First off, they want to see and I
Speaker 3: tell the key to this is what you've achieved, not
Speaker 3: what you want to do, what you reckon you can do,
Speaker 3: it's what you've achieved. So that's factual information employers don't
Speaker 3: get normally, and if you've achieved something, they will really
Speaker 3: want to drill in on that and actually say, well,
Speaker 3: you know did you do that whole project yourself? Was it?
Speaker 3: Ba da da da da da? And that'll impress them immensely.
Speaker 3: So if anything they've got to walk away with is
Speaker 3: that you've been able to achieve some stuff in your career,
Speaker 3: you know, Max.
Speaker 2: I can guarantee you. I can almost I won't put
Speaker 2: a stat on it, but I can guarantee you A
Speaker 2: vast proportion of people listening will be thinking, I'd never
Speaker 2: hear back. I've sent off the most amazing application. I
Speaker 2: wrote this amazing cover letter. I would be surprised how
Speaker 2: many people actually go to the CV once they've read
Speaker 2: the cover letter, which isn't specific to the job they've
Speaker 2: applied for. By putting the time in to your point,
Speaker 2: doing some research on the business, that's key, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It is key, But you've got to spend some time
Speaker 3: for it. And it's nothing more disappointing when you get
Speaker 3: zero reply. You know, back in the good old days,
Speaker 3: I'm probably older than you. You and in those good
Speaker 3: old days, you always got to reply, even it was
Speaker 3: a bit just the same as everyone else got. But
Speaker 3: at least you've got the respect of somebody talking to it. Today,
Speaker 3: the silence is used as a weapon as well. Yes,
Speaker 3: and also people haven't got time to have talked to
Speaker 3: you that it's really disappointing of an organization.
Speaker 2: Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. You might have had
Speaker 2: like knock back after knock back, you may have had
Speaker 2: some success after making some changes, or you may just
Speaker 2: want some advice about your CV, your approach to the
Speaker 2: job applications. I do here quite frequently and talk about calls. Max.
Speaker 2: You know, I've applied for literally thirty or forty roles
Speaker 2: and not heard back on one of them. I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: what are you doing wrong? So, if you're an employer,
Speaker 2: are you generally looking at the cover letter before the
Speaker 2: CV or are you presuming the cover let will be
Speaker 2: you know, dear, so and so I'm amazing and these
Speaker 2: these are the key things I'm amazing at. Which is
Speaker 2: the most important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and exactly it's you telling people how incredible you
Speaker 3: are is not going to interest them at all. They
Speaker 3: get from everybody. What you really do need to do
Speaker 3: is what your achievements are. That's that you've really got
Speaker 3: to focus on that. So what I've done, I've worked
Speaker 3: in five years in this organization, three years on that
Speaker 3: that means something as well. And then I was able
Speaker 3: to achieve this status, or perhaps I managed these amount
Speaker 3: of people successfully, I got promoted in that way, even
Speaker 3: to a higher ranking, whatever it was after those things.
Speaker 3: If you've done those achievements, man, that's got something to
Speaker 3: be pleasant about. Look, the next question I think you're
Speaker 3: going to ask me later on is about pay rises,
Speaker 3: and it goes with the same. You really need to
Speaker 3: show your achievements. And because your boss people will be
Speaker 3: looking or she'll be looking at you know what is
Speaker 3: it that this person's achieved for me? What is it
Speaker 3: they need? And of course again it comes back to
Speaker 3: you know what you've been successful?
Speaker 2: Okay, I reckon. That's a good thing to go on
Speaker 2: with too. If you want to know about how to
Speaker 2: wordsmith that approach to your boss, oh, eight hundred eighty
Speaker 2: ten eighty, because I'll tell you what the easy answer.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what you tell me, Max. If you
Speaker 2: come to me and say you need a pay rise, Nope,
Speaker 2: I need no, but I'm actually I've got on mortgage.
Speaker 2: That's no. So Noah is an easy answer. But actually
Speaker 2: explaining to your employer the value that you're adding to
Speaker 2: a business. What you want to do in the future,
Speaker 2: asking them how to get to where you want to be.
Speaker 2: They might go, gee, that's a different approach. Yeah, pretty
Speaker 2: hard to say no to Roman. He's worth millions, And
Speaker 2: that's exactly a nice approach. And what can I do
Speaker 2: to get your satisfaction with me? I can actually get
Speaker 2: an increase. That is a really good approach. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: so let's just make Let's just presume that someone my
Speaker 2: age in their mid to late fifties and I haven't
Speaker 2: had to apply for a job for a very long time.
Speaker 2: I'll drag out my old CV. It looks pretty good.
Speaker 2: It's in a font that's unrecognizable, something that resembles something
Speaker 2: from the eighteen twenties. What do I need to do
Speaker 2: to that CV? Am I best to work on that
Speaker 2: myself or give it to someone like you and get
Speaker 2: that advice?
Speaker 3: Well, I can tell you now that AI is really
Speaker 3: fantastic with CBS, and what you do is summarize what
Speaker 3: you've been, what you've been successful at, what you've done,
Speaker 3: and give it to AI and it'll actually do something.
Speaker 3: But getting to your real question, not everyone's that got
Speaker 3: access to AI, So you really are better off with
Speaker 3: an expert to guide you a little bit, but again
Speaker 3: less is more so one page, the front page is
Speaker 3: really important. You know, your photograph will attract their attention,
Speaker 3: but also if what your achievements have been and how long,
Speaker 3: how experienced you are, those sort of factors. But look,
Speaker 3: when you read an advert or somebody who's looking for
Speaker 3: some staff, look for what they want and underline it.
Speaker 3: There's certain words that really are key for you. Underline
Speaker 3: that one and that word and then focus on those points.
Speaker 3: And that's what the employee is looking for, and that's
Speaker 3: what you should focus on, and that's where you should
Speaker 3: make them pleased.
Speaker 2: Can I just pull you up on the photo thing,
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of people my age and
Speaker 2: older they presume that if you put a photo or
Speaker 2: a date of birth, which apparently you don't put on
Speaker 2: cvs anymore. Do people generally work out how old you
Speaker 2: are based on your work history and when you got
Speaker 2: your degree or whatever. And how important is that photo
Speaker 2: if it shows that you like, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: benefits to being older, right, But for some people it's say,
Speaker 2: oh no, they'll be set in their ways. We don't
Speaker 2: want them.
Speaker 3: You got it, But I recall back in my time,
Speaker 3: when I was turning forty forty five, it was getting
Speaker 3: very very old, and you know, getting into my age
Speaker 3: now you're sort of unemployable. It's that trend is changing though, Romance.
Speaker 3: I believe that employers are now waking up to the
Speaker 3: fact that they want somebody were skilled and reliable. They
Speaker 3: can rely on older people, but you're quite right, the
Speaker 3: employer will be looking for age and experience, and if
Speaker 3: you're getting too old or you're too young, they might
Speaker 3: go off you. I mean, young people have got a
Speaker 3: bad reputation for not being reliable, and older people can
Speaker 3: be they get tired too quickly or want to do
Speaker 3: less hours. Those sort of things are really important, so
Speaker 3: are you. You know, if you can prove you're a
Speaker 3: really good attitude and your boss has liked you in
Speaker 3: your previous life, well that really can come through quite
Speaker 3: well too. But this is.
Speaker 2: Exactly this pros and cons. A twenty year old can
Speaker 2: be molded to what you want them to be. For example,
Speaker 2: I'm just choosing an extreme mate, and eighty five year
Speaker 2: old isn't going to be snorting twelve kilos of cocaine
Speaker 2: and drinking Jack Daniels till two am calling in sick?
Speaker 2: Are they so? Pros and cons?
Speaker 3: Pros and cons?
Speaker 2: Can you be too qualified?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Why do people say that, I'm sorry, John Lovely CV,
Speaker 2: but you're too qualified? What does that mean?
Speaker 3: Well, it means that you're going to be dissatisfied because
Speaker 3: you're not going to get paid as you should, as
Speaker 3: you have been paid in the past, and you're going
Speaker 3: to go to work thinking well, this is just too easy.
Speaker 3: Am I going to apply myself? Probably not, I'll just
Speaker 3: do what's necessary and go through the motions. But probably
Speaker 3: Am I inspiring to do more or get further in
Speaker 3: my life? Probably know I've already achieved that, so I'm
Speaker 3: not interested. Those sort of things are really important. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and yeah, you can be overqualified. A lot of people
Speaker 3: come at new immigrants come to this country with some
Speaker 3: amazing qualifications and it doesn't spin the wheels. Quite often,
Speaker 3: that's where they disappointed.
Speaker 2: Do you think I think this is I think the
Speaker 2: answer is yes. Do you think some employers are threatened
Speaker 2: by people who are very qualified? They don't want to
Speaker 2: be shown up where it should be like, oh my lord,
Speaker 2: look at that person, what they could add to my business?
Speaker 3: Roman These are excellent questions I do keep me on.
Speaker 3: You know, I think there is some truth in that
Speaker 3: they can be intimidated with them. People like to feel
Speaker 3: that they are in charge and going to be respected.
Speaker 3: But if somebody feels that they're more superior than them,
Speaker 3: it does sort of it's not as inviting as to
Speaker 3: somebody who's going to respect them and do as they told. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: it can be that factor. And the other factor is
Speaker 3: that that you're going to become less enthusiastic about your role.
Speaker 3: They want someone in there is going to be innovative,
Speaker 3: someone who can actually think for themselves, somebody who can
Speaker 3: actually get up and go and make the job happen
Speaker 3: and perhaps even consider, you know, things that will help
Speaker 3: the employer. That's what they want to see is someone
Speaker 3: who wants to grow my business for me. That would
Speaker 3: be ideal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes it makes a lot of sense. Everything
Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense. But I think we are
Speaker 2: all stuck in our ways and sometimes you need someone
Speaker 2: like Max. You need someone who's expert in human resources
Speaker 2: who see cvs all the time to actually tell you
Speaker 2: that look nice attempt, but you really need to tweak
Speaker 2: that CV. Get some advice by calling now on eight
Speaker 2: hundred eighty ten eighty nine two nine to two on
Speaker 2: the text. I was just thinking in a business where
Speaker 2: they're going to logically get hundreds of applications, pick your business,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. Let's say it's pack and Save in Johnsonville, Okay,
Speaker 2: So they're going to get four hundred applications if they
Speaker 2: all pretty much look the same, what will stand out?
Speaker 2: Would for example, me attaching a helium balloon to a
Speaker 2: CV having a stripper bouncing out of a cake. No,
Speaker 2: seriously does that kind of thing, that novelty stuff? Does
Speaker 2: it work?
Speaker 3: No? Oh well, I mean those two things wouldn't work
Speaker 3: for me. Came out like I say, this guy's a clown.
Speaker 3: I don't want him back in there. He's going to
Speaker 3: make fun. But certainly if you can, I mean, different
Speaker 3: size paper sometimes can do it. What happened years ago
Speaker 3: I was in a role which I had a PA
Speaker 3: and she put them all together because everything was a
Speaker 3: four in those days. So there was a huge pile
Speaker 3: on my desk and I just went I got to
Speaker 3: wait all the way through this. But she had gone
Speaker 3: through it and actually got five really good candidates and
Speaker 3: put him on the top. And she said I've just
Speaker 3: gone through those. Those are the attributes I can see,
Speaker 3: and she'd done a little brief. I was so impressed
Speaker 3: that she did that. But that's how they're going to
Speaker 3: have to go through them rather quickly and find out
Speaker 3: which individual really really suits their needs and that employer
Speaker 3: should have it in his ad. But he'll be saying,
Speaker 3: this is the criteria that I'm really searching for. I
Speaker 3: want that innovative, clear thinking person, somebody who's got a
Speaker 3: good attitude, who can do the work and even make
Speaker 3: be enthusiastic about my business as well. Even a bit
Speaker 3: of entrepreneurial trend is quite healthy in a business, particularly
Speaker 3: for an employer if they're looking for business opportunity of
Speaker 3: these themselves, that can be quite healthy.
Speaker 2: Good stuff. Max Whitehead here for Smart Money on eight
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty ten eighty. It's the weekend collective. I'm
Speaker 2: really keen to get some callers asking you some more
Speaker 2: questions because I'm thinking of all sorts of questions that
Speaker 2: I would benefit from. Oh now, so let's look at
Speaker 2: that the whole point that I never hear back and
Speaker 2: I literally get those calls. I've written thirty or forty
Speaker 2: different applications, I don't hear back from anyone at all.
Speaker 2: How are you supposed to know how to make the
Speaker 2: right changes if no one's telling you what's wrong with
Speaker 2: your CV and people just keep sending the same things.
Speaker 2: I know that employer probably doesn't care. But back in
Speaker 2: the day, we used to care. We used to be
Speaker 2: more courteous with job applications, didn't we.
Speaker 3: And that's that's where we talked about before you know
Speaker 3: who best you refer to, and you'd probably need an
Speaker 3: expert advice, or go and talk to colleagues, friends, people
Speaker 3: like this and say, can you have a look at
Speaker 3: my CV? What's your thoughts on this? Now you're going
Speaker 3: to get a variation of views and point of views,
Speaker 3: And of course generation makes a big difference as well.
Speaker 3: Sometimes the older people are going, oh, no, no, you
Speaker 3: need to fill it up with all your parson. No,
Speaker 3: don't do that. Keep it brief to the point and
Speaker 3: be succinct. But also you've got to design it particularly
Speaker 3: for the job. The CV shouldn't be generic for every
Speaker 3: job you apply for, just to do it for that
Speaker 3: one particular job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. If I was getting an application that
Speaker 2: looks very generic, Dear employer or to whom it concerns.
Speaker 2: I kind of like the business that you're If there's
Speaker 2: nothing in there that tells me they've done any research,
Speaker 2: that would be next? Please? What about references? Do I
Speaker 2: put them down for further information contact these people? Or
Speaker 2: do I actually put the good old letter written by
Speaker 2: the previous employer?
Speaker 3: Well, references, I would say, really of yesteryear. And they're
Speaker 3: not even important anymore because a lot of people will
Speaker 3: tell you what you want to hear rather than the
Speaker 3: reck real facts. But a phone number and a referral
Speaker 3: to can you ring Roman and ask him what Max
Speaker 3: is like? That can be it's big, big time. But
Speaker 3: also the individual who be assessing you will be saying,
Speaker 3: is there anyone else in the business I can talk to?
Speaker 3: He wants that individual, so maybe there's someone else in
Speaker 3: there because I need to get a really good, unbiased
Speaker 3: perspective of this guy. Yeah, people I know that employ people.
Speaker 2: One of the key questions they ask is is there
Speaker 2: any reason why you wouldn't employ this person again? And
Speaker 2: if the phone goes quiet, it's like next eight hundred
Speaker 2: eighty ten eighteen numbers I can tell and nine nine
Speaker 2: two on the text get a there, Grant, Hey, Grant, Yeah, Hey.
Speaker 4: Couple couple of things covering letter, little subtleties like including
Speaker 4: the logo of the company that you're applying for. Whether
Speaker 4: that's just a complete waste of time or that adds
Speaker 4: the point of difference the covering letter as well, I
Speaker 4: think you've hit them out on the head, whereas yeah,
Speaker 4: you're talking to you make a bit of effort to
Speaker 4: find out about the company, and you're researching the company
Speaker 4: saying what they actually want. Obviously you've got to include
Speaker 4: that as far as yours, what you've achieved, so that
Speaker 4: the covering letter, the way I see it is it's
Speaker 4: like your door. It's your doorway. It's like the you know,
Speaker 4: the bit that gets you interested or it gets the
Speaker 4: interest of that bothered and look at your cvs. So
Speaker 4: that was the first thing. That the second thing for
Speaker 4: the CV, I wanted to ask whether you think it's
Speaker 4: worth having hyperlinks in the CV. So you have, you know,
Speaker 4: one of your achievements and then you have a hyperlink
Speaker 4: through too, so they can actually click on that and see,
Speaker 4: oh okay, cool, that's a link to what so and
Speaker 4: so has said that they've achieved.
Speaker 3: Gone, gone, hyperse of the.
Speaker 4: Use of LinkedIn and importance of LinkedIn in today's world.
Speaker 4: So I think that if you're looking at particular industry,
Speaker 4: you're you're making an effort to follow all the right people,
Speaker 4: all the right companies, and then rather than asking, like
Speaker 4: it's like a blind date, so you're not actually asking
Speaker 4: to connect, but you actually start following them. And then
Speaker 4: you start following the company and their posts, and you're
Speaker 4: you're liking or potentially commenting on their content hopefully so
Speaker 4: that then when it all links up and you've applied
Speaker 4: for something, potentially they see that, oh there's a name
Speaker 4: that's familiar. Names familiarly because oh god, they've been following
Speaker 4: us on LinkedIn, and they're following the CEO and whoever
Speaker 4: else and the company and so those three things.
Speaker 3: So grant I would say, LinkedIn, let's start from the
Speaker 3: last one. First. LinkedIn is a really good idea and
Speaker 3: amazing employers look at that all the time, and because
Speaker 3: they get so much information off that, particularly in regards
Speaker 3: to your past and what you've achieved. So tidy that up. Also,
Speaker 3: tidy up your social media. Don't have any stupid stuff
Speaker 3: on that because it really is not going to go
Speaker 3: down well for you. Now, in terms of hyperlinks, I
Speaker 3: think that's a brilliant idea. I use them all the
Speaker 3: time when I give advice, I might refer to a
Speaker 3: piece of legislation. I'll put a hyperlink into that law
Speaker 3: and people can look for themselves. I think it just
Speaker 3: shows that you've innovated. You've also got ability, and you've
Speaker 3: done your research and you've got it right there. So
Speaker 3: I think a hyperlink is a great idea. Now, putting
Speaker 3: the company's logo on your letter, I'm not sure. It's
Speaker 3: a little bit creepy. It's a bit almost invasive. I
Speaker 3: think it's their intellectual property. I would leave it alone,
Speaker 3: I think, but you demonstrate and I think, Grant, you're
Speaker 3: making this point that you know something about their business
Speaker 3: and you've done your research. But do it subtly and
Speaker 3: do it just briefly, because the real thing about it
Speaker 3: is you've got to show that you've got something to offer.
Speaker 3: And if you can show innovation, I think that's one
Speaker 3: of the key words for actually employing people. They can
Speaker 3: take it a step further. They can see some opportunities
Speaker 3: when it comes about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good stuff, Grint, thank you. Look, I want to
Speaker 2: be a bit cynical about that. Look, how do you
Speaker 2: show innovation if you're going for a job and I
Speaker 2: don't want to pack a job because someone will say
Speaker 2: that it'd be right you're having a crack at me
Speaker 2: in my job. But I'm just going to pick a job.
Speaker 2: So I'm applying for a job as a courier driver.
Speaker 2: How do I show innovation? How do I show anything
Speaker 2: different other than I've got a clean license and I've
Speaker 2: got no road rage in my history.
Speaker 3: Well, obviously speed and time is a big one for
Speaker 3: those people. They really want to know you can get
Speaker 3: the work done and you're available, and you can go
Speaker 3: back to the depot and perhaps pick up someone else's
Speaker 3: run or the end of their run where there's some
Speaker 3: late documental parcels come in. So I think if you
Speaker 3: can say, look, I've got an achievement here. I know
Speaker 3: the shortcuts around around this town. I can actually get
Speaker 3: to locations a lot quicker than most people. I am
Speaker 3: also quite fit. I will probably run up the driveway
Speaker 3: if necessary, and delivered right to the front porch or
Speaker 3: whatever it might be, but also taking particular care that
Speaker 3: it's secure and where I leave the parcel or whatever
Speaker 3: it might be. Now, those sort of things will show
Speaker 3: a little bit of innovation, but the speed and that's
Speaker 3: speeds money to the employer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And just going back to LinkedIn when I
Speaker 2: was having my CV reworked a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: instead of just having dub dub dub LinkedIn and then
Speaker 2: a whole lot of numbers, you can change that to
Speaker 2: your name. So yeah, so that's quite important on your CV.
Speaker 2: So that LinkedIn profile is your name in the profile?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they can do a search on I've
Speaker 3: never done your name, but.
Speaker 2: It'll be this amazing. All sorts of things pop up.
Speaker 3: Max, You've got balloons, heavy and boom balloons and things.
Speaker 2: Strippers out of cakes. Oh, you've be intrigued for us,
Speaker 2: No good. This is a great place to get the
Speaker 2: advice that you need with Max Whitehead here on the
Speaker 2: Smart Money Show of the Weekend Collective Max Whitehead. He's
Speaker 2: an employment relations expert, a thoroughly lovely guy, and he's
Speaker 2: been involved with people and the work that they do
Speaker 2: for years and years and years on both sides of
Speaker 2: the fence. So get stuck in eight hundred eighty ten
Speaker 2: eighty and nine two nine to two to text twenty
Speaker 2: seven past five, half past five. Great to have your
Speaker 2: company here. On the Smart Money Out of the Weekend collective,
Speaker 2: Max Whitehead is in the studio with me. Join us
Speaker 2: eight hundred eighty ten eighty will connect you or z
Speaker 2: b ZB on the text let's talk about tenure in
Speaker 2: a job. You know, back in the day you left college,
Speaker 2: you went to the post office and you stay there
Speaker 2: till you were sixty sixty five. So how long is
Speaker 2: too long? If you're looking at a CV and someone
Speaker 2: has that kind of tenure, is that boring or is
Speaker 2: that like, oh, they're great because they're dependable.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, you're right about the old days. If
Speaker 3: you'd been there more than ten years, it's about normal,
Speaker 3: and then if you did fifteen, you'd get a probably overreward.
Speaker 3: But you'll notice all those things disappeared now. People are
Speaker 3: not interested now. If you're in a job more than
Speaker 3: three years, then you're probably overstaying. And also if you
Speaker 3: haven't had an increase in that period of time or
Speaker 3: very very few less than say the inflation rate, you
Speaker 3: really should have a review of where you're going. Now.
Speaker 3: Keep an eye on obviously, our look at our current marketplace,
Speaker 3: and inflation's big time everywhere. But you need to keep
Speaker 3: those factors into your consideration. But three years today, I
Speaker 3: think it's time to have a review and do you
Speaker 3: need to stay? Is there opportunities within this business? Or
Speaker 3: am I stayed? If you want to be stayed well
Speaker 3: and your and your boss is happy with you, well
Speaker 3: then stay there. I mean that's fine. But if you're
Speaker 3: ambitious and want to get ahead, move on. If nothing's
Speaker 3: happened in three years, go and find something else and
Speaker 3: try and pump yourself up another notch by going for
Speaker 3: that next job up.
Speaker 2: See, there's a couple of things there isn't there. If
Speaker 2: you're in an industry where you can't actually climb a ladder,
Speaker 2: you can't go any high. You come in at this
Speaker 2: level and that's where you stay. That's not necessarily boring,
Speaker 2: I guess. Or does it show that you're not driven
Speaker 2: enough to want to change, because I would look at
Speaker 2: a CV that shows constant change and I'd be going, blimey,
Speaker 2: what's this person up to? They count? Sit still?
Speaker 3: Well? New Zealand's a really unique place too. Ninety seven
Speaker 3: percent of all businesses here are small businesses, so that's
Speaker 3: less than twenty staff, and most businesses are even less
Speaker 3: than that. So if you're in a small business, you
Speaker 3: can't climb too far and the boss isn't going to
Speaker 3: go anywhere unless he's getting near retirement, and you're thinking
Speaker 3: about buying the business offer or proposing that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: Those are factors for consideration as well if you've got
Speaker 3: big ambitions. But a lot of people are looking for
Speaker 3: job security these days. It's more comfortable than being ambitious.
Speaker 3: And just the fact that I've got bread and butter
Speaker 3: coming on the table, can feed the family is enough
Speaker 3: for them. And look, they don't mind sitting in a
Speaker 3: job where they're not going to go up the tree anymore,
Speaker 3: belong and they can actually go to work, go home
Speaker 3: forget about work, and then enjoy the family. The people
Speaker 3: two different types of people in the world. And I
Speaker 3: suspect you Roman are ambitious and a bit like myself.
Speaker 3: I was all the way through. I'm in a hurry
Speaker 3: to get anywhere. Couldn't believe it. I've been there a
Speaker 3: month and I hadn't that promotion. Now that's the young
Speaker 3: people today. They actually think the same. But you've got
Speaker 3: to do You've got to do your apprenticeship. You really do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm probably quite annoying for people that know me
Speaker 2: quite well, because I do tend to if I look
Speaker 2: at something, how do I get to that point? What
Speaker 2: do I need to do to get there? And you've
Speaker 2: got to You've got to know how to work through
Speaker 2: a process in order to get better or to achieve promotion.
Speaker 2: So knowing that pathway.
Speaker 3: In zdmme is going to have a new CEO soon
Speaker 3: Roman Travers.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I've heard.
Speaker 3: Bed self promotion.
Speaker 2: So understanding that pathway that's quite important. So those people
Speaker 2: that are getting constant knockbacks, the people are saying I'm
Speaker 2: never getting a reply or I'm getting a reply and
Speaker 2: it's always no. But perhaps you haven't shown how driven
Speaker 2: what you've achieved in order to better yourself. Telling people
Speaker 2: that you're worth more and capable of a job that
Speaker 2: isn't indicated in your CV isn't great, is it?
Speaker 3: Well, again, you need to do the research. Is the
Speaker 3: company's looking for someone who is prepared to sit in
Speaker 3: a job for a long period of time and just
Speaker 3: sit there and do the job, or are they looking
Speaker 3: for someone that could gravitate to the top and someone
Speaker 3: who's really going to make their business hum. Those are
Speaker 3: two different lots of people, and equally attractive to employers.
Speaker 3: To have someone stable, secure, they're going to keep coming
Speaker 3: and they're going to be reliable, and someone that you
Speaker 3: can bank on to come to work every day is
Speaker 3: quite satisfying for many, many, particularly small employees.
Speaker 2: All Right, So, whether you're an employer or an employee
Speaker 2: and a potential employee, if you've got questions for Max Whitehead,
Speaker 2: our employment relations expert, this is the time to get
Speaker 2: at eight hundred and eighty ten and.
Speaker 3: Any other questions you've got about employment law. I'm more
Speaker 3: than happy to help you. We're on a public holiday,
Speaker 3: you know that's tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Some people have them, don't they match?
Speaker 3: Oh you're not, obviously, No, I'll be sleeping. I won't
Speaker 3: even think about your own man.
Speaker 2: See, how many people do you in your experience working
Speaker 2: with people in employment matters? How many people get really
Speaker 2: belligerent and a bit snotty about being overlooked. Oh I'm
Speaker 2: perfectly capable, but they're not prepared to understand what they
Speaker 2: need to do on that pathway to better themselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, particularly the new generation, because they see the
Speaker 3: world revolves around them, and they're really looking at They
Speaker 3: can't believe it. They can't believe it. This employer is
Speaker 3: not treating me right and promoting me, and that really
Speaker 3: employers are very much aware of this attitude as well.
Speaker 3: So keep yourself in check, folks. There's nothing wrong with
Speaker 3: being ambitious and being in a hurry, but keep yourself
Speaker 3: in check and be very conscious of the employer's perspective
Speaker 3: on things. If they haven't got the right perspective, maybe
Speaker 3: it's time to move on and you do it to
Speaker 3: your way and whatever. But I like what you said
Speaker 3: before roman approach them. What can I do to impress you?
Speaker 3: What can I do to get ahead in this business?
Speaker 3: And I think that's probably a good start. And if
Speaker 3: they say, we'll just do your job, I'm happy with
Speaker 3: you carry on as it is. Is there any chance
Speaker 3: of me becoming them over taking from you, taking over
Speaker 3: and managing the business for you and you can stay home. Yeah,
Speaker 3: those questions are quite reasonable. But I should tell you
Speaker 3: I like.
Speaker 2: That because there's two types of people in every single business.
Speaker 2: I don't care whether it's a courier company or whatever
Speaker 2: the business is. There's the people that want to help
Speaker 2: you up the ladder and the people that want to
Speaker 2: chop the ladder off to stop you getting up there.
Speaker 2: So there's anyway eight hundred eighty ten eighty the text
Speaker 2: nine two nine two you get a Reuben Hey, Ruben
Speaker 2: Max here.
Speaker 5: Oh, how's it going? I'm just ringing up. I'm just wondering,
Speaker 5: if you've got an employer, employees or other, and they
Speaker 5: haven't worked for longer than say a year, are they
Speaker 5: still entitled to and you'll leave.
Speaker 3: Yeah, only after they've done twelve months service that they're
Speaker 3: entitled to four weeks leave. So what happens is the
Speaker 3: day they start, they start to accumulate leave, and you
Speaker 3: can give it to them an advance if you want to.
Speaker 3: If not, they have to wait till the end of
Speaker 3: that twelve month period and then they're entitled to four weeks.
Speaker 5: Okay. So in mine situation, I've got I have given
Speaker 5: some an advance, but now the employee is resigning and
Speaker 5: they're just wondering if they're so eligible to get the
Speaker 5: rest of that money even though they've resigned before the
Speaker 5: twelve month period.
Speaker 3: It depends how much you've given them. I always, I
Speaker 3: always recommend to employers don't give them any more than
Speaker 3: they've actually accumulated. Did you give them extra or not?
Speaker 5: I've got them through two hours and goodwill, I think
Speaker 5: it's not. It's haven't gone over what they would get
Speaker 5: after a year.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but you might have given them more. Say
Speaker 3: they've only done two weeks work and you gave them
Speaker 3: thirty two hours paid leave for a holiday. You've been
Speaker 3: over generous. So I would actually ask them for that
Speaker 3: money back saying that. Yeah, I there's nothing wrong with
Speaker 3: asking them for it and saying that I've given this
Speaker 3: to you out of generosity and I've you know, the
Speaker 3: law didn't require me to do that, so I was
Speaker 3: trying to help you at the time. No, there's no
Speaker 3: problem to ask you.
Speaker 5: Okay, Oh that's great news.
Speaker 3: Thanks for that, all right, Reuben good thanks for the call.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Ruben. Yeah, I think this comes up a
Speaker 2: lot about what I am entitled to my contracts. Is
Speaker 2: one thing I'm hearing different things from an employer. Is
Speaker 2: that still something that people are grappling with. It's quite
Speaker 2: black and white in a contract, do, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Well? One of the worst things Roman is the Holidays Act.
Speaker 3: It really is a nightmare for people like me. I'm
Speaker 3: sitting here terrified. Now. I encourage people to call in
Speaker 3: about the Holidays Act, but it's just full of fish hooks,
Speaker 3: and also the judiciary reluctant to make a decision about
Speaker 3: lots of stuff of it. We're just waiting for the
Speaker 3: day that brook van Belden, the minister, is going to
Speaker 3: actually put a new one out because the past government
Speaker 3: they had six years they were going to put it out.
Speaker 3: They didn't. This government tried and they were going to
Speaker 3: get so far and they're going to spend another year
Speaker 3: doing it. So we're still and waiting.
Speaker 2: Of a mainland cheese policy. Good things take time, right.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's been a lot of years and
Speaker 3: I've been around a long time. So what I do
Speaker 3: recall is in the early days they said we're putting
Speaker 3: a new version out and it'll be much simpler. It
Speaker 3: wasn't and then it just comes on again and again.
Speaker 3: It really it's going to be very very difficult to
Speaker 3: I've tried to even think about what drafting and make
Speaker 3: it simple simple, and Brooks tried. You can remember that
Speaker 3: she was saying, oh, we'll put a proportion of people
Speaker 3: and you know of the time that they're entitled to.
Speaker 3: It isn't easy if you're going to give everyone their entitlements,
Speaker 3: if you're going to get harsh, well maybe it's time
Speaker 3: to happen. Yeah.
Speaker 2: David Seymour in a State of the Nation's speech, was
Speaker 2: praising Brook van Valden the work she's doing in this regard. So, look,
Speaker 2: how is that feeling for you as an employer? I
Speaker 2: think it must be terrifying trying to work out what
Speaker 2: people are into.
Speaker 3: Brooks made a lot of in my world and employment
Speaker 3: stuff and brook van Velden's the god of employment law.
Speaker 3: So she's made a lot of promises. So far nothing's happened.
Speaker 3: So she's saying twenty twenty five, it's all going to happen.
Speaker 3: It's all fall into place. She's promised anybody over one
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty thousand. She said, you won't get to
Speaker 3: be able to take a personal grievance. She said that
Speaker 3: there'll be changes to the law where people won't get
Speaker 3: the same rewards they used to for taking the personal grievance.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of stuff happening and yet we haven't
Speaker 3: seen it happen yet. So he's right about the innovation
Speaker 3: and good ideas. But well there's proof in the pudding,
Speaker 3: isn't it. Let's wait and see.
Speaker 2: Stand by, stand by, pick up the phone and call
Speaker 2: Max Whitehead, an employment relations expert. Here on the Smart
Speaker 2: Money Hour, it's the Weekend Collective News Talks there B
Speaker 2: twenty to six, seventeen to six Roman travers. Here on
Speaker 2: the Smart Money Hour, it's the Weekend Collector. Max Whitehead,
Speaker 2: you're a tremendously generous man. If people are listening and
Speaker 2: they're going, shit, I'm not calling I'm too scared. How
Speaker 2: do they find you?
Speaker 3: You can call me on two one twenty four to
Speaker 3: seven ninety three ninety three, or just look up the
Speaker 3: dub dub dub Whitehead Group. Dot co dot n said,
Speaker 3: oh the white Hair Group.
Speaker 2: Good stuff.
Speaker 3: Well, Max Whitehead will get you there as well.
Speaker 2: Well unfair gettable. Now we have talked about CVS, the
Speaker 2: importance of making sure it's up to date, and I'm
Speaker 2: not just talking about your latest job. Make sure it's
Speaker 2: actually going to be worth reading, not something that was
Speaker 2: produced out of wided up a.
Speaker 3: Columny to two pages maybe three, but you know, keep
Speaker 3: it less is more.
Speaker 2: Yes, and write a covering letter pertinent to the job
Speaker 2: you're applying for and don't use strippers and cakes.
Speaker 3: So I thought that was Helian Balloons was the other one.
Speaker 2: I like that. I like that there's something outstanding, right.
Speaker 2: So we're talking also about tenure in the job, and
Speaker 2: you're saying, at about three years, if you get him
Speaker 2: at stale, you haven't made any moves. It could look
Speaker 2: like you're stale.
Speaker 3: Yep, I think it's time to have a review. And
Speaker 3: that's the modern world. In the old world, it was
Speaker 3: like fifteen years and you were look, that's a good,
Speaker 3: good person, he's a good employee. Steady as get over that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd hate to watch you reading my CV. It's
Speaker 2: quite comedic. It goes everything from farming to the Department
Speaker 2: of Conservation, the Forest Service, to working in pubs in London,
Speaker 2: a waiter in Scotland, radio TV back to radio all
Speaker 2: over the show Roman.
Speaker 3: If you're to look at the role you're going to
Speaker 3: apply for and then apply it, you know if you're
Speaker 3: going for if you're going to go for a radio announcer,
Speaker 3: for example, the last thing they want to know it
Speaker 3: you worked on a farm or maybe they do. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I guess oh, you're well. They want to
Speaker 3: touch on a wide spectrum of knowledge, and you do
Speaker 3: do it? You have got it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could write my CV by the sounds. If
Speaker 2: you are in the process of writing a CV and
Speaker 2: you're just thinking, Look, I'm lost. I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do. Do I go forwards or backwards? Do I
Speaker 2: go from school or do I go from my current job.
Speaker 2: This is the time to make that phone call and
Speaker 2: catch Ma's whitehead. Here on the smart money eight hundred
Speaker 2: eighty ten eighty couple of text he max. Are you ready?
Speaker 3: Yep, I'm braced.
Speaker 2: Do employers read cover letters and CV letters these days
Speaker 2: or are they just put into an AI system for processing.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, the latter happens a lot these days. But
Speaker 3: certainly skim reading is what happens when employer's got to
Speaker 3: pile of them. They'll skim read it and pick out
Speaker 3: what's important. Remember that highlight whatever is important. Maybe it's
Speaker 3: a heading or whatever. There's some words in there that
Speaker 3: you think that they need to know. Put it in
Speaker 3: bold or whatever. You know, don't don't be. The other
Speaker 3: thing is Kiwis are reluctant to be They want to
Speaker 3: be modest and it's the Kiwi way, you know, the
Speaker 3: quiet achiever. No, don't. This is the time you need
Speaker 3: to get loud and bold and saying this is what
Speaker 3: I can do, and this is what I have done.
Speaker 3: I could do it for your business as well.
Speaker 2: It's a cliche, but cliches become cliches because they're generally true.
Speaker 2: You have one chance to make a first impression, don't
Speaker 2: you do?
Speaker 3: And it's a glance, and it's you're right. Say someone's
Speaker 3: got one hundred applications there, they're going to flash through
Speaker 3: them and it's skim reading it on the way. So
Speaker 3: the words are important and less is more.
Speaker 2: Yes. And I was also told, tell me what you
Speaker 2: think about this, and by the way, do call eight
Speaker 2: hundred eighty ten eighty while we're chatting away. Reflect the
Speaker 2: language that they use in the ad. So if they
Speaker 2: want things like we want someone who can collaborate, use
Speaker 2: that word talk about your collaboration. We want someone who
Speaker 2: whatever it might be, reflect the same language back because
Speaker 2: they'll connect with that.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, and that's what I was pointing out.
Speaker 3: I'm so pleased you've said that, because you know, collaborations
Speaker 3: are very very modern word and people use a lot,
Speaker 3: but that's you're dead right, And that's why I'm saying
Speaker 3: before underline some of the key words with in their
Speaker 3: advertisement or whatever they are to try and get your attention,
Speaker 3: and then put it back to them and say, well,
Speaker 3: I've collaborated with many of this is this associates from
Speaker 3: my business, et cetera, will vouch for me to do this, this, this, this, this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Curren says, there's absolutely no excuse for not
Speaker 2: acknowledging applications. They're all done electronically, just an auto reply
Speaker 2: such as thank you for your interests. The process from
Speaker 2: here is blah blah blah. We will assess the applications,
Speaker 2: be back with you in a couple.
Speaker 3: Of wads, and look, AI will do it for them
Speaker 3: in seconds. It's incredible what that will do. Just feed
Speaker 3: it in and then give them their addresses and then saying, okay,
Speaker 3: I like these three candidates, so you know we used
Speaker 3: to get them in the old days, are saying unfortunately,
Speaker 3: and we've got some very high caliber of candidates and
Speaker 3: unfortunately didn't quite make the grade this time. Well, so
Speaker 3: what use those words and put repeated if necessary, but
Speaker 3: at least get back to people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, because you know one thing that we
Speaker 2: all tell each other, abnores him. We tell each other
Speaker 2: that we're so busy, and then we'll tell each other
Speaker 2: about the fourteen hours of Netflix we watched, and we
Speaker 2: sat at the pub for fourteen hours watching cricket. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that's not everybody. But yeah, just being politial.
Speaker 3: Here's a grumble, And I hope you don't mind me saying,
Speaker 3: but I hate the cancel culture and the fact that
Speaker 3: you just don't get a response is the cancel culture,
Speaker 3: and I think it's rude. I actually think that is
Speaker 3: absolutely rude. You should acknowledge someone who's communicating with you,
Speaker 3: at least acknowledge them. If you disagree, say so and
Speaker 3: then move on.
Speaker 2: I completely agree. Ron says, goody, they're Raman and Max.
Speaker 2: I'm an owner operator working for a big corporate. Do
Speaker 2: I have to be on a roster and stipulated hours
Speaker 2: of work and when the work is slow you don't
Speaker 2: hear from them, But when you're on the roster and
Speaker 2: you have to be available, I'm not really sure.
Speaker 3: Well, I assume Ron is an employee and there is
Speaker 3: a requirement under the legislation that they've got to specify
Speaker 3: guaranteed hours of work. So I guess that's what Ron's
Speaker 3: on about that sound on a roster. Well then you know,
Speaker 3: so I'd say Ron has his own business, but he's
Speaker 3: actually an employee as well. I'd say that's probably what
Speaker 3: he's doing.
Speaker 2: Okay, good stuff. As an employer, Max, I look for
Speaker 2: straightforward cover letters and one or two pages for a
Speaker 2: CV only, and that reflects on the time, right. I
Speaker 2: don't have time to read about your love of butterflies,
Speaker 2: you know, And I went tramping once, like, just keep
Speaker 2: it simple, keep it succinct, reflect what they're asking for.
Speaker 3: Exactly what you said before. And that guy, that guy
Speaker 3: or girl who owns a business is really just saying, hey,
Speaker 3: it's the right advice. So listen, folks that really listen
Speaker 3: to this. Keep it simple and keep it short.
Speaker 2: Yes, I like what you were saying before about social media,
Speaker 2: and this text touches on that. Get a Roman and Max,
Speaker 2: don't put your photo on the CV, and also close
Speaker 2: out your Facebook page, as many employers look at your
Speaker 2: profile and pictures regard says John, Why would you unless
Speaker 2: you're an absolute notice or something, why would you close
Speaker 2: your Facebook page?
Speaker 3: Well? I could tell you now, if I get a
Speaker 3: new client, I mean, this is almost the other way around.
Speaker 3: I will then do research on social media and see
Speaker 3: where they sit and what sort of person they are.
Speaker 3: And the Facebook page really is a toweltal.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: They might enjoy parting and going out, well that's fine,
Speaker 3: that's normal. But if they over the top and drug
Speaker 3: it up or whatever it might be, I might not
Speaker 3: be happy of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess everything you put in the digital world
Speaker 2: is there forever, and just be that in mind. Right,
Speaker 2: So it's a good tip. Thanks, Let's get back into
Speaker 2: it with your phone calls. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 2: You've only got another ten minutes to catch Max Whitehead
Speaker 2: from the white Head Group and employment Relations the expert. Oh,
Speaker 2: eight hundred eighty ten eighty. It's a free phone call.
Speaker 2: The text nine two N two nine to six sex
Speaker 2: to sex Max Whitehead. If you're asking lots of text
Speaker 2: saying how do I get hold of Max Whitehead? He
Speaker 2: doesn't always sit in the studio, he does go home.
Speaker 2: You are part of the white Head.
Speaker 3: Group, I could stay here at night and day where.
Speaker 2: You could what's your website? Again?
Speaker 3: I was gonna say dub dubw you're not allowed us
Speaker 3: see anymore. Whitehead group dot co dot nz.
Speaker 2: Brilliant, good stuff, Giday, guys. My contract states two months
Speaker 2: notice to leave, but I'm paid fortnightly. Where do I
Speaker 2: stand to leave early? Is this negotiable?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question, and quite often, look quite
Speaker 3: often the employers actually put it like, if you're paid fortnightly,
Speaker 3: then it's a fortnight's notice. But a lot of employers
Speaker 3: are now using this long tenure for a notice period,
Speaker 3: which backbars on them sometimes as well. So I would
Speaker 3: suggest you ought to be trying to negotiate that. It's
Speaker 3: probably too late. You're probably locked in and you're signed
Speaker 3: off at it. So that tenure for a notice period
Speaker 3: is really negotiable, and you should exercise that at the
Speaker 3: beginning of your job.
Speaker 2: It always sounds better and nasty when people start arguing
Speaker 2: about can you leave early? Clearly you don't want to
Speaker 2: be there as an employer. Do you really want to
Speaker 2: keep someone there? It doesn't want to be.
Speaker 3: No, And that's what I say that to employers, and
Speaker 3: quite often employees that backed by someone in that regard. Oh,
Speaker 3: I've got somebody with a bad attitude. They are leaving,
Speaker 3: thank goodness. But now I've got them here for two months?
Speaker 3: What do I do?
Speaker 2: Sorry? Max Buzzwords says, the text of Buzzwords would be
Speaker 2: the first thing to make me turn the page. As
Speaker 2: an employer. If I saw the word collaborative, I'd move on.
Speaker 2: It's an empty word most times, you see, so that
Speaker 2: picked up on that word. My point was reflect the
Speaker 2: language that the person has written.
Speaker 3: And I would agree with you Roman, but I also
Speaker 3: agree with the buzzwords. I mean, I read a lot
Speaker 3: in my world of redundancy proposals that they've sent to employees,
Speaker 3: and some of these, some of the larger, well known
Speaker 3: organizations out there, have the most beautifully written stuff, but
Speaker 3: if you examine it closely, it's got no substance in
Speaker 3: it at all. Employees have to give you information. They
Speaker 3: don't give you anything at all. But it sounds so
Speaker 3: oh man, this is important. I really do have to
Speaker 3: just obey them what I have to do. Yeah, it
Speaker 3: works for them.
Speaker 2: It's amazing how much you can say without actually saying anything.
Speaker 2: Isn't it?
Speaker 3: Oh they have?
Speaker 2: And what the heck are they saying?
Speaker 5: What is it?
Speaker 2: You're trying to say? Just say it? But I do
Speaker 2: like the fact that, so I think we're going to
Speaker 2: clash on that. If someone's asking for someone who's collaborative,
Speaker 2: and you work that back into your application and reflect
Speaker 2: how you've been that person, you'll be top of the list.
Speaker 3: Max, Well, no collaborative. I agree with you because I
Speaker 3: think that means you can work with this team, you
Speaker 3: can work with others, you can work with idiots. Yeah, yes, everyone.
Speaker 2: Good on you, Max white Hair from the White Hair Group,
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 3: I love being here. Oh, good on you.
Speaker 2: Another great smart money out. I just remember you can
Speaker 2: catch all the action from Politics Central, the Health Hub,
Speaker 2: and smart Money on your favorite little device, you thing.
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio is the best place to go or go to
Speaker 2: news Talks thereb dot co dot Cheers, Max and thanks
Speaker 2: to tire of the produclar Yeah, thank you, Bye bye, Excus.
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