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Speaker 1: Public servants have been given the hard word from the

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Speaker 1: government to stop working from home. Cabinets told them that

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Speaker 1: working from home is not an entitlement and must be

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Speaker 1: agreed to if it doesn't compromise and only if it

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Speaker 1: doesn't compromise work output. Public Service Association National secretary Dwayne

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Speaker 1: Leo is with me.

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Speaker 2: Now, Hey, Dwayne, Ah, good afternoon, Heather.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to forgive you that one day. Why are

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Speaker 1: you guys opposed to this?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think what we've got here is a massive distraction.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is a desperate reaction blaming public servants

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Speaker 2: for a problem that the government's created. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: the government really cared about the Wellington economy, then why

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Speaker 2: do they sex five thousand public servants this year. That's

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Speaker 2: the effect, that's the reason why one of the issues

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Speaker 2: that the Wellington economy is struggling at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but what's wrong with public servants getting back into

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Speaker 1: the office.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean what we've got is we've got public

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Speaker 2: servants and I just want to predate here that public

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Speaker 2: servants have been have flexible working for a number of

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Speaker 2: years now. It predates COVID, and that's something that really

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Speaker 2: came about terms of modern workplaces that private and public

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Speaker 2: sector companies around the world have embraced in terms of

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Speaker 2: flexible working. So it's not a matter of simply saying

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Speaker 2: you've all got to go back into the office. A

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Speaker 2: lot of members would have employment agreements and arrangements whereby

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Speaker 2: that's part of their contract as such, to work from

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Speaker 2: time to time from home.

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Speaker 1: How would it be in the like would it be

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Speaker 1: prescriptive in the contract it would say you get to

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Speaker 1: work from home one day a week or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Well, you would have to have some kind of understanding.

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Speaker 2: It's not just a blanket you can work whenever you

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Speaker 2: want from home. There would be either through an employment agreement,

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Speaker 2: a collective agreement, or possibly workplaces also have policies that

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Speaker 2: run around these things, so there are structures in place

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Speaker 2: for this to occur.

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Speaker 1: And from our duane, what proportion of workers in the

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Speaker 1: public sector would have that in their contract?

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, that's something we wouldn't miss because it might

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Speaker 2: not necessarily just be a contract either, it could be

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Speaker 2: a policy, so it could be a policy wide arrangement

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Speaker 2: that the policies, cogency, policy conchange is for the ones

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Speaker 2: who have.

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Speaker 1: It in their contract fair game. It's in their contracts.

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Speaker 1: But for the rest of them, what's wrong with them

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Speaker 1: going into the office.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're not saying necessarily that they don't go into

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Speaker 2: the office, but what we're saying is where there are

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Speaker 2: arrangements that are working, Where there are arrangements that they

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Speaker 2: are actually getting more efficient work done. Where there are arrangements,

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Speaker 2: that's because of those situations that helps them to retain

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Speaker 2: experienced staff with institutional knowledge. Those things need to be

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Speaker 2: taken into account. Simply saying that the Wellington economy has

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Speaker 2: been hammered by working from home is just not factual.

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Speaker 2: The fact is, as I said before, we've had thousands

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Speaker 2: of public service workers made redundant. And when I say

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Speaker 2: that that's not the end of it, we understand we've

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Speaker 2: got another two budget rounds that could potentially impact on this.

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Speaker 2: That's where the issue is. It's not simply a public

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Speaker 2: service worker coming in and buying a cup of coffee.

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Speaker 1: Can I give you an insight into something outside of Wellington.

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Speaker 1: If they don't go into the office, you're going to

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Speaker 1: find very little sympathy outside of Wellington for the public

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Speaker 1: service cuts.

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Speaker 2: Well in terms of that, hither saying necessarily that they

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Speaker 2: don't go into the office because these arrangements very dramatically.

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Speaker 2: You can have someone that works from home one day

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Speaker 2: a week, you can have someone that has flexible time.

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Speaker 2: These arrangements, there's a broad spectrum.

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Speaker 1: And just what I'm saying is they might want to

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Speaker 1: haul button to the office that I want to get fired.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, you know, I don't think that's fair,

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Speaker 2: and I actually think that's disrespectful for public service workers

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Speaker 2: who do a hard job, and a lot of them.

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Speaker 2: We're not talking about workers that actually get paid large

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Speaker 2: amounts on your program. I think last week we had

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Speaker 2: feedback in relation to our civilian workers in the Ministry

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Speaker 2: of Defense. They have been offered a zero percent pay

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Speaker 2: rise this year. So there's no money at all for

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Speaker 2: anyone on any form. And you say you've got them

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Speaker 2: bringing them back in.

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Speaker 1: From home made are they sorry? I'm bestiding I don't

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Speaker 1: think people in uniform are w s H working from home.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm talking about civilian staff, Heather. So we've got

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Speaker 2: civilian side varies. You can have administration workers, you can

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Speaker 2: have logistics support, payroll it varies. No, there is yeah

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Speaker 2: distinct difference between Civilion which are all members and uniformed.

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Speaker 1: All right, Duane, listen, thank you. We'll leave it there,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure we'll talk about it again at some stage.

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Speaker 1: Duane Leo, National Secretary of the Public Service Association Success.

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Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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