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Speaker 1: Now it seems that we live in an age where

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Speaker 1: businesses and countries are winding back the climate commitments a

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Speaker 1: bit after years of going full throttle. You've got the

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Speaker 1: Net Zero Banking Alliance shutting down neslayers quit, the Dairy

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Speaker 1: Methane Action Alliance, and closer to home, the government yesterday

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Speaker 1: water down climate related reporting requirements for listed companies. And

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Speaker 1: yet there's someone who was adamant that being woke is

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Speaker 1: actually good for business. Michael Kobori was the sustainability boss

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Speaker 1: at Starbucks and also worked at Levi's. Hi Michael, Hi, Heather,

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Speaker 1: How is being woke for actually good for business in

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Speaker 1: the face of everything we're seeing at the moment, Well.

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Speaker 2: Heather, I would say that it isn't so much about

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Speaker 2: being woke, it is about doing what is good for

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Speaker 2: your business. And I have worked on sustainability for large

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Speaker 2: global companies like Starbucks and Levi, Strauss and Company for

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Speaker 2: nearly thirty years, and we've always focused on those sustainability

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Speaker 2: issues that are material in a financial sense to our companies.

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Speaker 2: And I'm very proud to say that through that work,

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Speaker 2: we've helped our companies become more financially successful.

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Speaker 1: Give me an example, Well.

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Speaker 2: I would say that, for example, coffee at Starbucks, coffee

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Speaker 2: is an existential issue. Now, many of your listeners this

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Speaker 2: morning may be enjoying their cup of coffee. I will

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Speaker 2: tell you that coffee only grows in the tropics above

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Speaker 2: one thousand meters in the mountains. Okay, Now, because the

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Speaker 2: climate is warming the planet, because we have extreme heat

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Speaker 2: and droughts and rain and floods, because pests and disease

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Speaker 2: like coffee leaf rust are on the increase, coffee is

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Speaker 2: under threat. By the year twenty fifty, the amount of

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Speaker 2: lefe that we can grow coffee on will be reduced

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Speaker 2: fifty percent. Get that again, By twenty fifty, the amount

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Speaker 2: of land that we can use for coffee will be

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Speaker 2: cut in half. And so the company has extensive programs

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Speaker 2: that are working on developing new varieties of coffee that

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Speaker 2: can withstand climate change. We're teaching farmers more sustainable agricultural techniques,

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Speaker 2: and we as a company, and we're encouraging other companies

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Speaker 2: to reduce their carbon emissions because guess what, if we

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Speaker 2: can reduce that, we can help keep the temperature jet

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Speaker 2: down and actually help make sure that we can all

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Speaker 2: enjoy that cup of coffee in the.

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Speaker 1: Morning, right, And yet I mean Starbucks famously got busted

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Speaker 1: I think it was last year, right for this wanting

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Speaker 1: wanting to do all the right things by the climate,

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Speaker 1: and yet the CEO gets permission and a private jet

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Speaker 1: to be able to fly from his home and I

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Speaker 1: think it was California to Washington or something, wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was part of his compensation package. And I

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Speaker 2: have to tell you that that was something that has

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Speaker 2: a nearly it's in the it's in the one one

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Speaker 2: millionth of an impact on the company's carbon emissions, and

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Speaker 2: we were able to engage in other programs that completely

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Speaker 2: offset that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but doesn't that doesn't that under school though, that

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Speaker 1: if you are going to say that this is what

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Speaker 1: your business is about, and you're going to make it

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Speaker 1: part of your business story, you cannot deviate from that.

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Speaker 1: Because that was that created some terrible backlash with Starbucks.

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Speaker 2: Look, it was probably not the greatest news out there,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't overshadow all of these substantive things that

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Speaker 2: the company has been doing and all introduced or carbon emissions.

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Speaker 2: We've literally invested millions of dollars in new renewable power

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Speaker 2: generation across the United States and in communities that sorely needed.

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Speaker 2: The last one was seventy three million dollars literally on

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Speaker 2: an Indigenous Indian reservation in near San Diego, California. So

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Speaker 2: the company's making significant investments for renewable power generations.

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Speaker 1: So, Michael, would you not would the company not be smarter?

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Speaker 1: Would the smart and rational thing not be actually, instead

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Speaker 1: of wasting my words, not yours, Instead of wasting money on,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to cut a missions, encouraging others to

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Speaker 1: cut a missions, climate reporting, all that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: would the company not be better off putting all of

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Speaker 1: that money into doing the thing that you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: which is trying to find coffee beans that will grow

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Speaker 1: in climate change, you know, in the new weather system.

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Speaker 2: Well, Heather, we're doing both right now. Of course, we're

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Speaker 2: trying to get coffee to the point where it can

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Speaker 2: survive climate change. But if we and others don't do

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Speaker 2: anything to re or carbon emissions, then we're not addressing

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Speaker 2: the source of the problem. Right The planet is heating up,

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Speaker 2: which is causing all of these problems for coffee and

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Speaker 2: reducing the emailal Land can put.

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Speaker 1: This and that's it's that's that is. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: a fair that's a fair argument. But if I was

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Speaker 1: a shareholder, I would say to you, listen, Starbucks is

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Speaker 1: going to have about no impact on climate change realistically,

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Speaker 1: stop wasting money on it. Put your money into adaptation.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't wouldn't that be the rational thing for a shareholder

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Speaker 1: to demand.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, our shareholders are demanding both, and so are

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Speaker 2: our customers, and so are the employees of Starbucks and

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Speaker 2: many other large companies. And so that is what the

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Speaker 2: company pays attention to. It's what any company is going

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Speaker 2: to pay attention to. What do your customers want, what

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Speaker 2: do your employees want, and what do your investors want?

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Speaker 2: And they want absolutely for us to address the issues

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Speaker 2: around the environment that are material to the company, and

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Speaker 2: for a company that is a food and average retailer

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Speaker 2: like Starbucks, it absolutely is carbon It's water because coffee

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Speaker 2: is ninety nine percent water, and it's waste. Every year

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Speaker 2: Starbucks has forty Starvicks has forty thousand stores around the world,

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Speaker 2: and every year it uses literally billions of single use cups,

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Speaker 2: and so addressing that waste is one of the big

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Speaker 2: issues that we were focused on at Starbucks, and certainly

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Speaker 2: the industry is focused on because there are customers and

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Speaker 2: our employees want to see us address issues like that.

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Speaker 1: All right, Michael, it is good to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your perspective. That's Michael Kobori, the former

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Speaker 1: Starbucks Chief Sustainability Officer, also at Levi's.

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