1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:23,973 Speaker 1: from News Talks at Budut. 3 00:00:34,093 --> 00:00:34,733 Speaker 2: Juicy. 4 00:00:42,333 --> 00:00:47,213 Speaker 3: Ah, that's an incredible song, isn't it. Stewart Copeland's drumming 5 00:00:47,373 --> 00:00:52,053 Speaker 3: helped define a generation. As the drummer for the Police, 6 00:00:52,333 --> 00:00:54,613 Speaker 3: he played at some of the worlds and New Zealand's 7 00:00:54,613 --> 00:00:59,213 Speaker 3: biggest venues, and Stuart is a muso's muso at heart. 8 00:00:59,453 --> 00:01:02,093 Speaker 3: As well as playing with the Police, he's worked extensively 9 00:01:02,133 --> 00:01:05,973 Speaker 3: and composing for film and TV. He's even written opera 10 00:01:06,573 --> 00:01:10,013 Speaker 3: and now eighteen years since he was last on Our Shores, 11 00:01:10,013 --> 00:01:13,613 Speaker 3: Stuart is returning for a very special spoken word tour. 12 00:01:14,133 --> 00:01:17,973 Speaker 3: Stuart is with us this morning, keld A, good morning, Well, thank. 13 00:01:17,813 --> 00:01:18,333 Speaker 2: You very much. 14 00:01:18,373 --> 00:01:20,933 Speaker 4: Good to be talking to New Zealand. It is cool 15 00:01:20,973 --> 00:01:22,133 Speaker 4: looking forward to getting down there. 16 00:01:22,333 --> 00:01:24,933 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're delighted you're coming down. Tell us about the 17 00:01:24,973 --> 00:01:30,013 Speaker 3: show because I spoken word to her. I suppose it's 18 00:01:30,173 --> 00:01:31,573 Speaker 3: a different kind of creative outlet. 19 00:01:32,573 --> 00:01:33,053 Speaker 2: Well it is. 20 00:01:33,093 --> 00:01:35,973 Speaker 4: It's talking instead of banging stuff, which requires a little 21 00:01:35,973 --> 00:01:36,933 Speaker 4: more brain power. 22 00:01:37,173 --> 00:01:37,373 Speaker 2: You know. 23 00:01:37,493 --> 00:01:41,213 Speaker 4: Usually when I'm behind the drums banging stuff, it doesn't 24 00:01:41,213 --> 00:01:46,733 Speaker 4: take a lot of intellectual exercise necessarily, But here actually 25 00:01:46,733 --> 00:01:49,853 Speaker 4: having to form sentences and so on. There's a little 26 00:01:49,853 --> 00:01:54,693 Speaker 4: more challenging. But fortunately in my seventy something years, I've 27 00:01:54,693 --> 00:01:57,773 Speaker 4: had a couple of adventures which are fun to talk about. 28 00:01:57,933 --> 00:02:00,613 Speaker 3: Yeah, it must be. It must be so nice to 29 00:02:00,613 --> 00:02:04,413 Speaker 3: be able to kind of purposefully sit down with an 30 00:02:04,453 --> 00:02:07,373 Speaker 3: audience who is so keen to hear those stories and 31 00:02:07,533 --> 00:02:09,653 Speaker 3: actually reflect on them in an active way. 32 00:02:10,733 --> 00:02:14,053 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you know, it's much better than chatting to 33 00:02:14,093 --> 00:02:18,453 Speaker 4: somebody at a cocktail party or any form of conversation. 34 00:02:19,893 --> 00:02:22,933 Speaker 4: You know, I've noticed that singers, front persons and bands 35 00:02:22,933 --> 00:02:26,093 Speaker 4: are often very shy, and the reason that they have 36 00:02:26,293 --> 00:02:29,733 Speaker 4: become front persons is because armed with a five jillion 37 00:02:29,813 --> 00:02:36,573 Speaker 4: watt PA, conversations are easier. People are forced to listen 38 00:02:36,653 --> 00:02:39,013 Speaker 4: to you exactly exactly. 39 00:02:39,333 --> 00:02:43,053 Speaker 3: So, So you, I mean, you've been taking the show 40 00:02:43,093 --> 00:02:44,973 Speaker 3: around the place a bit, touring it around a little bit, 41 00:02:45,013 --> 00:02:50,333 Speaker 3: and it's been incredibly well received. What has the experience 42 00:02:50,373 --> 00:02:53,173 Speaker 3: been like for you. Have you found that as the 43 00:02:53,213 --> 00:02:57,373 Speaker 3: shows have continued that you've been surprised about some of 44 00:02:57,373 --> 00:02:59,493 Speaker 3: the things that you found yourself coming back to or 45 00:02:59,493 --> 00:03:01,493 Speaker 3: reflecting on, or have you kind of gotten too a 46 00:03:01,573 --> 00:03:04,373 Speaker 3: rhythm with the same stories well. 47 00:03:04,693 --> 00:03:09,133 Speaker 4: Every audience amazingly laughs at different times and pauses at 48 00:03:09,133 --> 00:03:12,093 Speaker 4: different times, and cheers at different times, and that keeps 49 00:03:12,093 --> 00:03:15,933 Speaker 4: it interesting. Last night's gag that brought down the house 50 00:03:16,053 --> 00:03:19,573 Speaker 4: goes like a damp squib tonight and vice versa, you know, 51 00:03:19,653 --> 00:03:23,613 Speaker 4: just something throughout nothing tonight the place goes well, So 52 00:03:23,773 --> 00:03:24,613 Speaker 4: every audience is different. 53 00:03:24,653 --> 00:03:26,413 Speaker 2: That makes it much more inspiring for me. 54 00:03:26,813 --> 00:03:30,453 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it is actually a lot of fun to 55 00:03:30,493 --> 00:03:33,133 Speaker 4: carry the room with you on one of those adventures, 56 00:03:33,173 --> 00:03:37,933 Speaker 4: whether it's chasing giraffes across the Serengetti or chasing royalty 57 00:03:37,973 --> 00:03:42,573 Speaker 4: across the polo fields of Cirencester, you know, or for 58 00:03:42,653 --> 00:03:46,173 Speaker 4: that matter, chasing conductors across the stage in the opera house. 59 00:03:47,533 --> 00:03:50,253 Speaker 4: You know, when the audience is with you listening, it 60 00:03:50,333 --> 00:03:53,453 Speaker 4: is inspiring and it infuses your words with kind of 61 00:03:53,493 --> 00:03:54,373 Speaker 4: an extra mojo. 62 00:03:54,733 --> 00:03:57,653 Speaker 3: Yeah, So to give us a saint of the kinds 63 00:03:57,653 --> 00:03:59,733 Speaker 3: of stories you're telling without giving too much away, what 64 00:04:00,373 --> 00:04:02,173 Speaker 3: kinds of parts of your life and career are you 65 00:04:02,213 --> 00:04:03,413 Speaker 3: reflecting on the most. 66 00:04:04,453 --> 00:04:08,453 Speaker 4: Well, pretty much covering most of it pre police and 67 00:04:08,613 --> 00:04:11,813 Speaker 4: curved air, my prog rock days, a lot of noodling 68 00:04:12,533 --> 00:04:16,373 Speaker 4: and self promotion of course, there's my family background, which 69 00:04:16,413 --> 00:04:18,293 Speaker 4: is I didn't realize until I grew up that my 70 00:04:18,373 --> 00:04:21,693 Speaker 4: family was really strange. My daddy was a spy in 71 00:04:21,733 --> 00:04:27,813 Speaker 4: the Middle East, busy imposing and sustaining dictators, despots and assholes, 72 00:04:29,173 --> 00:04:32,293 Speaker 4: and I thought it was perfectly normal to grow up 73 00:04:32,293 --> 00:04:35,693 Speaker 4: in Bairut Lebanon. Didn't everyone else, But it was different. 74 00:04:36,333 --> 00:04:41,453 Speaker 4: And so I've had a checkered career, my adventures in 75 00:04:41,493 --> 00:04:47,573 Speaker 4: Hollywood with Francis Coppola, Oliver Stone at all, navigating all that. 76 00:04:47,613 --> 00:04:49,853 Speaker 4: But the cool thing about that I can share with 77 00:04:49,893 --> 00:04:53,373 Speaker 4: your listeners that is unexpected is that some of the 78 00:04:53,373 --> 00:04:57,093 Speaker 4: most valuable lessons I've learned about music were when I 79 00:04:57,173 --> 00:05:02,253 Speaker 4: was a stone cold employee, a composer for hire, a 80 00:05:02,373 --> 00:05:05,933 Speaker 4: hired gun flinty eyed film composer, and when the boss 81 00:05:05,973 --> 00:05:08,293 Speaker 4: man said I want this, I got to figure out 82 00:05:08,333 --> 00:05:11,653 Speaker 4: how to do this. Whereas an artist following their own 83 00:05:11,653 --> 00:05:14,413 Speaker 4: instincts doesn't have to do that, They don't have to 84 00:05:14,453 --> 00:05:18,253 Speaker 4: develop their skills beyond what their instincts are interested in. 85 00:05:18,613 --> 00:05:21,933 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean you you have just first of all, 86 00:05:22,013 --> 00:05:25,413 Speaker 3: had an incredibly varied and interesting life like this kind 87 00:05:25,413 --> 00:05:30,413 Speaker 3: of rich range of experiences. But then even within the 88 00:05:30,493 --> 00:05:34,293 Speaker 3: musical realm. I mean this incredible kind of richness with 89 00:05:34,413 --> 00:05:36,733 Speaker 3: your experiences. So when you say that, you feel like 90 00:05:36,813 --> 00:05:40,293 Speaker 3: you learn more as an employee, like when those constraints 91 00:05:40,333 --> 00:05:43,253 Speaker 3: were put on you, those creative constraints by having to. 92 00:05:43,333 --> 00:05:48,253 Speaker 4: Well, look these constraints, constraints as well as prads yeah 93 00:05:48,493 --> 00:05:51,893 Speaker 4: go there, Yeah, don't do this. It's also I need 94 00:05:51,933 --> 00:05:53,733 Speaker 4: that specifically, this emotion. 95 00:05:53,893 --> 00:05:56,653 Speaker 2: I need to. You know, the audience thinks this handsome. 96 00:05:56,453 --> 00:05:59,453 Speaker 4: Guy who says I love you to the beautiful woman 97 00:05:59,533 --> 00:06:02,093 Speaker 4: and the moon shining and everything. They're what they're seeing. 98 00:06:02,373 --> 00:06:05,173 Speaker 4: The information they're getting is he's handsome, she's pretty. It's 99 00:06:05,213 --> 00:06:05,853 Speaker 4: a beautiful thing. 100 00:06:05,973 --> 00:06:06,373 Speaker 2: Yeah. 101 00:06:06,373 --> 00:06:10,973 Speaker 4: However, the plot is that he's an asshole, and so 102 00:06:11,053 --> 00:06:14,173 Speaker 4: I put my shit cord on him. And so the 103 00:06:14,253 --> 00:06:17,853 Speaker 4: audience they don't believe they're lying eyes. They believe my chord, 104 00:06:17,973 --> 00:06:21,813 Speaker 4: which informs them emotionally, do not trust this guy. Yeah, 105 00:06:22,053 --> 00:06:25,613 Speaker 4: and so it's not what I'm constrained. The film comes 106 00:06:25,653 --> 00:06:28,053 Speaker 4: there is not so much constraint as he's pushed into 107 00:06:28,133 --> 00:06:33,333 Speaker 4: doing very specific using music to speak very specific emotional language. 108 00:06:33,413 --> 00:06:36,893 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's prompted, as you say, so is working on 109 00:06:36,933 --> 00:06:40,853 Speaker 3: a project like that. How do you compare the creative 110 00:06:40,893 --> 00:06:45,333 Speaker 3: satisfaction from a project like that with something wearby? You 111 00:06:45,413 --> 00:06:47,813 Speaker 3: are just out there making whatever music you want to make. 112 00:06:49,053 --> 00:06:50,933 Speaker 2: Well, for one thing, I don't do that anymore. 113 00:06:51,093 --> 00:06:53,853 Speaker 4: Yeah, I haven't scored a movie in twenty or thirty 114 00:06:53,933 --> 00:06:57,773 Speaker 4: years or something like that. But I do the same job, 115 00:06:58,893 --> 00:07:02,773 Speaker 4: but the pay is much worse. And it's called opera. 116 00:07:03,133 --> 00:07:05,053 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the same job. 117 00:07:05,093 --> 00:07:08,293 Speaker 4: It's telling a story and guiding the emotions with music 118 00:07:08,533 --> 00:07:11,253 Speaker 4: a lot more music, and an opera the composer gets 119 00:07:11,293 --> 00:07:13,493 Speaker 4: to be boss of everything, which is another cool thing 120 00:07:13,533 --> 00:07:18,893 Speaker 4: about it. Uh And but the pay sucks. But I 121 00:07:18,933 --> 00:07:21,293 Speaker 4: live a very simple life, so I can afford to 122 00:07:21,293 --> 00:07:22,253 Speaker 4: be an opera composer. 123 00:07:22,493 --> 00:07:26,533 Speaker 3: M How do you how do you reflect on the 124 00:07:26,613 --> 00:07:30,253 Speaker 3: kind of generational impact of your music, and specifically of 125 00:07:30,293 --> 00:07:32,293 Speaker 3: the Police. I mean, I'm not sure if you hear 126 00:07:32,333 --> 00:07:32,853 Speaker 3: this all the time. 127 00:07:32,893 --> 00:07:35,013 Speaker 4: At least is one generation, but I've got another whole 128 00:07:35,053 --> 00:07:41,213 Speaker 4: bandwidth yeah of Spiro fans, Yeah yeah, game and people 129 00:07:41,253 --> 00:07:44,253 Speaker 4: of a specific age group who grew up playing Spiro. 130 00:07:45,693 --> 00:07:47,813 Speaker 4: They find out, oh the music, Oh I love the music, 131 00:07:47,853 --> 00:07:50,693 Speaker 4: you know, and you know that the music guy, you know, 132 00:07:50,733 --> 00:07:51,773 Speaker 4: he used to play in a band. 133 00:07:52,013 --> 00:07:53,213 Speaker 2: No what band. 134 00:07:54,613 --> 00:07:58,253 Speaker 4: You Yeah, many people make that connection, but I'm very 135 00:07:58,253 --> 00:07:59,013 Speaker 4: proud of Spiro. 136 00:07:59,533 --> 00:08:02,373 Speaker 3: Well, I you know, I grew up in a household. 137 00:08:02,493 --> 00:08:04,973 Speaker 4: Actually it actually succeeded to the same extent that the 138 00:08:05,013 --> 00:08:08,893 Speaker 4: Police did in a way still going years later. 139 00:08:08,973 --> 00:08:13,613 Speaker 3: See that just must be so satisfying. Like I yea dragons. 140 00:08:13,733 --> 00:08:16,053 Speaker 4: You know, a pink dragon is much easier to get 141 00:08:16,093 --> 00:08:17,733 Speaker 4: along with than a certain bass player. 142 00:08:19,773 --> 00:08:24,013 Speaker 3: Just kidding, just kidding, Hey, you said it, not me, okay. 143 00:08:25,453 --> 00:08:29,613 Speaker 3: I So I grew up in a household where my 144 00:08:29,733 --> 00:08:32,613 Speaker 3: dad would just always play music. His music really really loud, right, 145 00:08:32,613 --> 00:08:37,173 Speaker 3: And so we grew up with with Hendrix, with Cream, 146 00:08:37,533 --> 00:08:40,933 Speaker 3: with the original Fleetwood Mac, and with the Police. And 147 00:08:40,973 --> 00:08:43,853 Speaker 3: it's interesting because when me and my siblings all moved 148 00:08:43,893 --> 00:08:46,933 Speaker 3: out of home, we all ended up, you know, the 149 00:08:47,013 --> 00:08:48,853 Speaker 3: music that we rolled our eyes at when we were 150 00:08:48,933 --> 00:08:51,413 Speaker 3: kids ended up being the music that we all bought 151 00:08:51,413 --> 00:08:54,453 Speaker 3: for ourselves. And so I think buying a couple of 152 00:08:54,893 --> 00:08:56,973 Speaker 3: Police albums was one of the first things I did 153 00:08:57,213 --> 00:09:00,013 Speaker 3: once I left home, which is which is a bizarre thing. 154 00:09:00,013 --> 00:09:01,853 Speaker 3: So I just wonder how you kind of reflect on 155 00:09:02,253 --> 00:09:06,053 Speaker 3: having that kind of impact across generations in the same 156 00:09:06,093 --> 00:09:07,973 Speaker 3: way you you mentioned with Spiro. 157 00:09:08,973 --> 00:09:12,053 Speaker 4: Well, I'm actually still just digesting what you said about 158 00:09:12,333 --> 00:09:14,973 Speaker 4: that your dad turned you on to Jimmy Hendrix. 159 00:09:15,293 --> 00:09:17,213 Speaker 2: Yeah. 160 00:09:17,653 --> 00:09:19,853 Speaker 4: I was once driving my kids to school. You know, 161 00:09:19,893 --> 00:09:21,653 Speaker 4: the only way I could stay hip was driving my 162 00:09:21,733 --> 00:09:24,493 Speaker 4: kids to school and they would play with me what's 163 00:09:24,533 --> 00:09:27,613 Speaker 4: going on? And one day my daughter, aged twelve, was 164 00:09:27,653 --> 00:09:29,973 Speaker 4: a check this out and it was Jimmy Hendrix. 165 00:09:30,613 --> 00:09:36,133 Speaker 3: Ah, she said, you probably haven't heard of this guy. 166 00:09:37,093 --> 00:09:40,813 Speaker 4: My goodness. But the idea that your dad I mean 167 00:09:40,853 --> 00:09:42,053 Speaker 4: for me, my dad. 168 00:09:42,013 --> 00:09:43,293 Speaker 2: Raised me to be a jazz musician. 169 00:09:43,573 --> 00:09:46,773 Speaker 4: He raised me on on what is known as wrong jazz, 170 00:09:46,813 --> 00:09:49,893 Speaker 4: which is to say, white big band jazz, Stan Kenton, 171 00:09:50,013 --> 00:09:52,573 Speaker 4: Louis Belson, and well, of course Buddy Rich, which is cool. 172 00:09:53,333 --> 00:09:55,253 Speaker 4: But he raised me to be a jazz musician. But 173 00:09:55,293 --> 00:09:58,373 Speaker 4: when I heard Jimmy Hendrix, it was all about rebellion. 174 00:09:59,213 --> 00:10:02,093 Speaker 4: You know that For me, Jimmy Hendrix was a rebellion 175 00:10:02,213 --> 00:10:04,773 Speaker 4: against my dad. And there you are, growing up with 176 00:10:04,853 --> 00:10:07,053 Speaker 4: your dad turning you onto Jimmy Hendrick. 177 00:10:07,333 --> 00:10:07,773 Speaker 2: Yeah. 178 00:10:07,853 --> 00:10:09,813 Speaker 3: Yeah, It's amazing how these things happen, right, This is 179 00:10:09,813 --> 00:10:13,653 Speaker 3: what I mean it I feel like good music ultimately 180 00:10:13,653 --> 00:10:16,333 Speaker 3: bleeds into the next generation and it's passed on, and 181 00:10:16,413 --> 00:10:19,133 Speaker 3: yet it's a kind of there's a beautiful cycle to it. 182 00:10:19,853 --> 00:10:22,373 Speaker 4: Well, I'll share something else, and I've talked to this 183 00:10:22,493 --> 00:10:27,373 Speaker 4: with you know, McCartney and Ringo Mick, you know, the 184 00:10:27,413 --> 00:10:31,373 Speaker 4: Beatles and Stones, the people who came before me. None 185 00:10:31,413 --> 00:10:34,533 Speaker 4: of them, nor us in the Police, none of us 186 00:10:34,613 --> 00:10:37,413 Speaker 4: ever expected our music to last longer than ten minutes. 187 00:10:37,773 --> 00:10:40,293 Speaker 4: We play pop music. The music is to hit the 188 00:10:40,373 --> 00:10:42,893 Speaker 4: charts and be gone within a couple of weeks. Eat 189 00:10:42,933 --> 00:10:46,253 Speaker 4: it like a sandwich, you know, fast food. That's what 190 00:10:46,253 --> 00:10:49,173 Speaker 4: pop music is supposed to be. And so none of 191 00:10:49,253 --> 00:10:52,813 Speaker 4: us ever would have dreamed that, you know, whether the 192 00:10:53,293 --> 00:10:57,373 Speaker 4: Beatles or the Police would dream that the music would 193 00:10:57,453 --> 00:11:00,733 Speaker 4: live on. And I think something happened around the year 194 00:11:00,773 --> 00:11:05,053 Speaker 4: two thousand, around that time when suddenly retro became a 195 00:11:05,053 --> 00:11:10,573 Speaker 4: good thing, school became a compliment, and kids, I guess, 196 00:11:10,653 --> 00:11:14,893 Speaker 4: realized that the originals are somehow have more X factor 197 00:11:14,973 --> 00:11:18,973 Speaker 4: than the derivatives. And so around two thousand, kids are 198 00:11:18,973 --> 00:11:21,973 Speaker 4: you know, on the radio. They're getting the derivatives until 199 00:11:21,973 --> 00:11:24,933 Speaker 4: somebody discovers the original. Jimmy Hendry, go, wait a minute, 200 00:11:25,133 --> 00:11:29,693 Speaker 4: that's way better, and so God blessed the children of 201 00:11:29,733 --> 00:11:33,093 Speaker 4: the world that around that time they started to rediscover 202 00:11:33,853 --> 00:11:39,853 Speaker 4: well the dinosaurs, which the police just scrapes into that category. 203 00:11:40,773 --> 00:11:45,333 Speaker 3: No, I think it's just a quality supersedes everything else. 204 00:11:45,413 --> 00:11:47,333 Speaker 3: I think there has nothing to do with big dinosaurs 205 00:11:47,413 --> 00:11:49,653 Speaker 3: or anything else. It's the same reason we listened to. 206 00:11:50,853 --> 00:11:55,253 Speaker 4: For me, it was about rebellion because the cultural divide 207 00:11:55,293 --> 00:11:59,693 Speaker 4: between my generation and my parents was much wider than 208 00:11:59,693 --> 00:12:03,533 Speaker 4: the divide between you and your parents. 209 00:12:03,973 --> 00:12:06,253 Speaker 3: Hey, look, we're so delighted you're coming to New Zealand. 210 00:12:06,653 --> 00:12:09,093 Speaker 3: It is fantastic news, all the very best with have 211 00:12:09,173 --> 00:12:10,653 Speaker 3: I said too much and we can't wait to see 212 00:12:10,653 --> 00:12:10,893 Speaker 3: you soon. 213 00:12:10,973 --> 00:12:14,533 Speaker 4: Stuart looking forward to getting down there for more from 214 00:12:14,613 --> 00:12:16,173 Speaker 4: Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. 215 00:12:16,373 --> 00:12:19,573 Speaker 1: Listen live to News Talks d B from nine am Saturday, 216 00:12:19,813 --> 00:12:21,853 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.