1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,972 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed be 2 00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:17,012 --> 00:00:19,092 Speaker 2: The biggest story in New Zealand at the moment. New 4 00:00:19,173 --> 00:00:23,172 Speaker 2: Zealand isn't being exempted from Donald trump sweeping tariff planned. 5 00:00:23,173 --> 00:00:25,933 Speaker 2: The US President has announced ten percent tariff's on almost 6 00:00:25,973 --> 00:00:30,333 Speaker 2: all imports to the United States. To discuss this further, 7 00:00:30,533 --> 00:00:33,412 Speaker 2: we're joined by Stephen Jacobe. He's a former diplomat, policy 8 00:00:33,453 --> 00:00:37,573 Speaker 2: advisor and Industry Associate Association CEO. He is well known 9 00:00:37,613 --> 00:00:39,893 Speaker 2: as an expert on trade and economic issues in New 10 00:00:39,973 --> 00:00:41,213 Speaker 2: Zealand and joins us now. 11 00:00:41,492 --> 00:00:45,853 Speaker 3: Very good afternoon, Stephen, Yes, hello to you. 12 00:00:46,573 --> 00:00:49,532 Speaker 4: Now, Stephen, very basically because a lot of people, I 13 00:00:49,732 --> 00:00:52,812 Speaker 4: don't think understand tariff's at all. For people who might 14 00:00:52,853 --> 00:00:55,133 Speaker 4: be an idiot and don't get it, how do tariff's work, 15 00:00:55,453 --> 00:00:57,653 Speaker 4: Where are they applied, who pays for them? And where 16 00:00:57,653 --> 00:00:58,813 Speaker 4: does the money collected go. 17 00:01:00,093 --> 00:01:04,333 Speaker 3: So, when New Zealand exports are product to the United States, 18 00:01:04,373 --> 00:01:09,293 Speaker 3: for instance, the United States government may or may not 19 00:01:09,933 --> 00:01:13,973 Speaker 3: charge a tariff a duty a percentage of the goods 20 00:01:14,053 --> 00:01:17,813 Speaker 3: value as it enters the country, and that is paid 21 00:01:17,853 --> 00:01:21,932 Speaker 3: for by the importer. Of the products not paid by 22 00:01:21,932 --> 00:01:25,813 Speaker 3: the exporter. It's paid by the importer, and the importer 23 00:01:25,973 --> 00:01:29,613 Speaker 3: generally passes that cost on to the purchaser of that 24 00:01:29,652 --> 00:01:34,053 Speaker 3: good and on to the final consumer. So in this example, 25 00:01:35,493 --> 00:01:39,093 Speaker 3: the tariff is attack that's paid for by consumers in 26 00:01:39,093 --> 00:01:39,973 Speaker 3: the United States. 27 00:01:41,013 --> 00:01:43,253 Speaker 4: Now, we hear a lot about the negative parts of 28 00:01:43,292 --> 00:01:46,693 Speaker 4: tariffs from our perspective, but it's not random. Can you 29 00:01:46,733 --> 00:01:50,133 Speaker 4: steal man the Trump administration's reasons for putting these tariffs 30 00:01:50,173 --> 00:01:51,013 Speaker 4: in place. 31 00:01:52,533 --> 00:01:56,293 Speaker 3: Well, if you read through the nine pages or so 32 00:01:56,453 --> 00:01:59,892 Speaker 3: of the executive order released by the President, you'll see 33 00:01:59,973 --> 00:02:04,333 Speaker 3: quite a lot of justification for this, primarily because he 34 00:02:04,453 --> 00:02:09,173 Speaker 3: considers that imbalances an international trade of heated a national 35 00:02:09,213 --> 00:02:14,293 Speaker 3: security problem for the United States. So this is, you know, 36 00:02:14,373 --> 00:02:20,573 Speaker 3: our exports of beef for McDonald's is causing a massive 37 00:02:21,133 --> 00:02:25,373 Speaker 3: national security problem for the United States, and therefore he 38 00:02:25,532 --> 00:02:29,093 Speaker 3: is being led to put in place actions to correct this, 39 00:02:29,653 --> 00:02:35,093 Speaker 3: which will in the process bring more business and manufacturing 40 00:02:35,213 --> 00:02:41,252 Speaker 3: to establish itself in the United States and boost the economy. 41 00:02:41,573 --> 00:02:44,373 Speaker 3: You know, there are lots of aspects to this argument, 42 00:02:44,413 --> 00:02:46,133 Speaker 3: but that's the central one. 43 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:49,532 Speaker 4: Because you can see it if you had a company 44 00:02:49,532 --> 00:02:53,933 Speaker 4: that was manufacturing cars in the United States, and then 45 00:02:53,972 --> 00:02:58,333 Speaker 4: they moved their factory to Mexico for the cheaper labor, 46 00:02:59,133 --> 00:03:01,893 Speaker 4: and then just selling the cars back to America. You 47 00:03:01,933 --> 00:03:04,653 Speaker 4: can see how that would be gutting for you know, 48 00:03:04,813 --> 00:03:06,933 Speaker 4: the car manufacturing industry in America. 49 00:03:08,373 --> 00:03:10,493 Speaker 3: Well, of course that's not quite the way it works, 50 00:03:10,532 --> 00:03:13,973 Speaker 3: because what happens in that particular example is that, yes, 51 00:03:14,373 --> 00:03:19,053 Speaker 3: some things are outsourced for production in Mexico, but in 52 00:03:19,093 --> 00:03:22,893 Speaker 3: fact what Mexico is doing is they are making parts 53 00:03:23,493 --> 00:03:27,132 Speaker 3: for the final car that is constructed in the United States. 54 00:03:27,213 --> 00:03:30,613 Speaker 3: In fact, parts flow back and forth across the border 55 00:03:31,413 --> 00:03:34,173 Speaker 3: for a variety of reasons. You know, I guess lower 56 00:03:34,213 --> 00:03:38,452 Speaker 3: cost production, sure, but also the ability to have very 57 00:03:38,493 --> 00:03:42,093 Speaker 3: long runs to reduce the unit cost of things produced. 58 00:03:42,493 --> 00:03:45,093 Speaker 3: So you know, to say that you can make everything 59 00:03:45,133 --> 00:03:48,853 Speaker 3: in one country today is actually a pretty tall order. 60 00:03:49,053 --> 00:03:53,013 Speaker 3: And then the motor vehicle example is pretty much the case. 61 00:03:53,053 --> 00:03:53,173 Speaker 2: Here. 62 00:03:53,253 --> 00:03:56,253 Speaker 3: You've got products moving all over North America to make 63 00:03:56,293 --> 00:03:59,853 Speaker 3: these cars. If you actually restrict that, you raise the 64 00:03:59,893 --> 00:04:02,253 Speaker 3: cost of manufacturing in the United States, you make them 65 00:04:02,493 --> 00:04:07,213 Speaker 3: unappealing an attractive, unaffordable to ess consumers, and they either 66 00:04:07,253 --> 00:04:09,172 Speaker 3: don't buy a car or buy from somewhere else. 67 00:04:09,933 --> 00:04:13,213 Speaker 4: But some car manufacturers have moved their plants out of 68 00:04:13,253 --> 00:04:15,333 Speaker 4: the United States because it's cheaper to make the cars 69 00:04:15,333 --> 00:04:17,573 Speaker 4: outside the United States. That's true, though, wasn't it. 70 00:04:18,733 --> 00:04:21,173 Speaker 3: They have moved part of the manufacturing process out of 71 00:04:21,173 --> 00:04:24,813 Speaker 3: the United States, that's right. But they have retained a 72 00:04:24,813 --> 00:04:27,453 Speaker 3: lot of manufacturing in the United States so they can 73 00:04:27,493 --> 00:04:31,093 Speaker 3: have an integrated manufacturing across North America. 74 00:04:31,893 --> 00:04:36,013 Speaker 4: So that hasn't been responsible for the losses and jobs 75 00:04:36,173 --> 00:04:37,653 Speaker 4: in manufacturing in America. 76 00:04:39,053 --> 00:04:41,733 Speaker 3: Well, I guess President Trump would argue that it has, 77 00:04:41,853 --> 00:04:44,813 Speaker 3: but of course also be argued that has actually preserved 78 00:04:44,893 --> 00:04:48,013 Speaker 3: jobs and created new ones by making cars that overall 79 00:04:48,013 --> 00:04:48,493 Speaker 3: are cheaper. 80 00:04:49,293 --> 00:04:52,733 Speaker 2: Stephen, there's a question that's come via our text machine here, 81 00:04:52,973 --> 00:04:57,293 Speaker 2: and I understand some countries have had this applied to 82 00:04:57,333 --> 00:04:59,493 Speaker 2: them with these new terriffs. But the question is will 83 00:04:59,533 --> 00:05:02,933 Speaker 2: new towers apply to small individual purchases from we retail 84 00:05:02,973 --> 00:05:06,413 Speaker 2: websites to a private individual. Currently they can import US 85 00:05:06,413 --> 00:05:08,653 Speaker 2: eight hundred dollars. Do we know that level of detail? 86 00:05:08,733 --> 00:05:14,693 Speaker 3: Yen. Yeah, that's called a dem minimus transaction. And this 87 00:05:14,773 --> 00:05:17,133 Speaker 3: is in the United States, right, So consumers in those 88 00:05:17,133 --> 00:05:19,533 Speaker 3: states can buy these and import them. You know, it's 89 00:05:19,533 --> 00:05:22,493 Speaker 3: the sort of thing you might buy from an international 90 00:05:23,293 --> 00:05:29,053 Speaker 3: you know, you know, website or something. Previously they were exempt, 91 00:05:29,733 --> 00:05:32,813 Speaker 3: but now they are going to be charged to full duty. 92 00:05:33,573 --> 00:05:37,333 Speaker 4: We're talking to Steven Jacobe, former diplomat and trade experts 93 00:05:37,853 --> 00:05:40,173 Speaker 4: from a New Zealand perspective. How much does our low 94 00:05:40,253 --> 00:05:44,333 Speaker 4: dollar offset the impact of these ten percent tariffs. 95 00:05:45,333 --> 00:05:47,413 Speaker 3: You know, to a certain extent, that's right, you know, 96 00:05:47,533 --> 00:05:51,733 Speaker 3: appreciation depreciation and the dollar which moves around can offset 97 00:05:51,813 --> 00:05:53,973 Speaker 3: some of this. And this tariff has been put on 98 00:05:54,333 --> 00:05:56,973 Speaker 3: at ten percent right for New Zealand, which is at 99 00:05:56,973 --> 00:05:59,893 Speaker 3: the low lowest end of the scale that they've adopted. 100 00:06:00,973 --> 00:06:03,653 Speaker 3: And you might have, you know, even up to a 101 00:06:03,733 --> 00:06:06,013 Speaker 3: five percent swing in the exchange rate that would have 102 00:06:06,053 --> 00:06:08,293 Speaker 3: an effect here. But bear in mind, by the way, 103 00:06:08,693 --> 00:06:13,253 Speaker 3: it's an additional ten percent tariff, it's not just ten percent. 104 00:06:13,813 --> 00:06:16,293 Speaker 3: So and of course a lot of our exports have 105 00:06:16,373 --> 00:06:19,813 Speaker 3: been going to the United States duty free, but in 106 00:06:19,853 --> 00:06:23,173 Speaker 3: some cases we do pay a tariff, generally not a 107 00:06:23,253 --> 00:06:28,133 Speaker 3: high tariff, except on some agricultural items. So some aspects 108 00:06:28,173 --> 00:06:31,333 Speaker 3: of dairy trade, for example s l Asbury high tariffs 109 00:06:31,653 --> 00:06:34,213 Speaker 3: and sometimes we trade over those twerts. We're going to 110 00:06:34,253 --> 00:06:38,533 Speaker 3: phase ten percent on top now, so the level of 111 00:06:38,613 --> 00:06:43,253 Speaker 3: pain will be felt differently across different sectors. And the 112 00:06:43,293 --> 00:06:45,213 Speaker 3: other aspect to bear in mind is that some of 113 00:06:45,253 --> 00:06:48,453 Speaker 3: our competitors in the US market are being taxed more 114 00:06:48,493 --> 00:06:51,093 Speaker 3: than US. So, for example, the European Union is being 115 00:06:51,133 --> 00:06:54,573 Speaker 3: taxed an additional tariff of twenty percent. That's going to 116 00:06:54,653 --> 00:06:56,973 Speaker 3: be significant for our wine exports, for. 117 00:06:56,933 --> 00:07:00,693 Speaker 2: Example, as it's the importer that pays the tariff. Steve 118 00:07:00,693 --> 00:07:02,773 Speaker 2: the no New Zealand export is likely to drop the 119 00:07:02,853 --> 00:07:06,693 Speaker 2: export prices to compensate the importer or is it a 120 00:07:06,733 --> 00:07:08,973 Speaker 2: case of living with a possible reduction that demand? 121 00:07:09,973 --> 00:07:12,853 Speaker 3: Yeah, well this is this is I mean, both is 122 00:07:12,933 --> 00:07:19,013 Speaker 3: probably correct. Some exporters will want to help their you know, 123 00:07:19,093 --> 00:07:21,933 Speaker 3: their distributors in the United States to keep you know, 124 00:07:22,413 --> 00:07:25,133 Speaker 3: price increases to a reasonable level. They may want to 125 00:07:25,173 --> 00:07:28,013 Speaker 3: share the pain, for example, or they might want to 126 00:07:29,333 --> 00:07:32,133 Speaker 3: they might want to seek to divert their you know, 127 00:07:32,333 --> 00:07:35,013 Speaker 3: exports off to other markets, or they might just suck 128 00:07:35,053 --> 00:07:38,133 Speaker 3: it up. So you know, it's going to vary across 129 00:07:38,173 --> 00:07:42,253 Speaker 3: different sectors according to different relationships and how the market reacts. 130 00:07:42,493 --> 00:07:45,773 Speaker 3: I mean, because of course you know, one big factor 131 00:07:45,813 --> 00:07:49,213 Speaker 3: here is is you know, how our competitors are being 132 00:07:49,253 --> 00:07:52,533 Speaker 3: treated our foreign competitors. But the other factor is can 133 00:07:52,613 --> 00:07:56,333 Speaker 3: the US you know, industry step up and supply the 134 00:07:56,413 --> 00:07:59,253 Speaker 3: products that we all have been supplying in all cases 135 00:07:59,293 --> 00:08:02,773 Speaker 3: is most unlikely to be the case. You take our 136 00:08:02,893 --> 00:08:06,493 Speaker 3: largest export beef into McDonald's, that's one point eight billion 137 00:08:06,533 --> 00:08:09,813 Speaker 3: dollars worth of exports, plays of very small tariff at 138 00:08:09,853 --> 00:08:12,453 Speaker 3: the moment. It might be subject to a plus ten percent, 139 00:08:12,813 --> 00:08:16,133 Speaker 3: but it's being part of a manifact of a food 140 00:08:16,213 --> 00:08:20,013 Speaker 3: processing chain in the United States. So how that exactly 141 00:08:20,053 --> 00:08:22,653 Speaker 3: works out will be very interesting to see. 142 00:08:23,573 --> 00:08:25,453 Speaker 4: Now, tariff's on a new thing. We're talking about the 143 00:08:25,493 --> 00:08:28,173 Speaker 4: lot because the US is the biggest economy in the world. 144 00:08:28,693 --> 00:08:31,373 Speaker 4: But Canada has had some big tariffs on New Zealand 145 00:08:31,493 --> 00:08:34,613 Speaker 4: and the EU has. Are we still taking Canada to 146 00:08:34,653 --> 00:08:36,973 Speaker 4: court with the when we take in Canada to the 147 00:08:37,213 --> 00:08:40,453 Speaker 4: wto the World Trade Organization over their tariffs on us. 148 00:08:40,573 --> 00:08:44,613 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. They haven't implemented their undertakings to 149 00:08:44,693 --> 00:08:48,132 Speaker 3: US in the context of the TPP Trade Agreement, and 150 00:08:48,213 --> 00:08:52,293 Speaker 3: so we're taking them to dispute settlement process. But you know, 151 00:08:54,612 --> 00:08:56,852 Speaker 3: that's kind of. It's an important thing and a big thing, 152 00:08:56,852 --> 00:08:58,612 Speaker 3: and we should be doing it, but it's a small 153 00:08:58,612 --> 00:09:00,213 Speaker 3: thing compared to what we're seeing in the United States 154 00:09:00,252 --> 00:09:02,852 Speaker 3: at the moment. You know, Canada is not putting tariffs 155 00:09:02,892 --> 00:09:06,613 Speaker 3: on us on all products. They should be meeting their 156 00:09:06,653 --> 00:09:10,013 Speaker 3: international obligations. What the United States is doing is quite 157 00:09:10,012 --> 00:09:12,053 Speaker 3: a lot more. In the case of the EU that 158 00:09:12,093 --> 00:09:14,973 Speaker 3: you mentioned. Of course, we've got a new trade agreement 159 00:09:15,012 --> 00:09:17,533 Speaker 3: with the EU that has reduced some tariffs, but not 160 00:09:17,573 --> 00:09:22,252 Speaker 3: all tariffs. And you know, I think that trade agreement 161 00:09:22,252 --> 00:09:26,052 Speaker 3: and other ones we have, including TPP or CPTPP as 162 00:09:26,053 --> 00:09:28,372 Speaker 3: it's called. Now, are we going to become more important 163 00:09:28,372 --> 00:09:30,732 Speaker 3: to us as we move forward into this new kind 164 00:09:30,773 --> 00:09:34,012 Speaker 3: of tariff world that we're seeing open up before our eyes. 165 00:09:34,973 --> 00:09:38,533 Speaker 4: Now, America has a huge amount of debt, and the 166 00:09:38,612 --> 00:09:40,733 Speaker 4: debt is growing all the time, and they look around 167 00:09:40,773 --> 00:09:44,973 Speaker 4: the world and see these deficits of trade. And if 168 00:09:45,012 --> 00:09:48,013 Speaker 4: you're the Trump administration, you believe that America is being 169 00:09:48,732 --> 00:09:52,693 Speaker 4: ripped off. Is there any truth to that? Have they 170 00:09:52,813 --> 00:09:55,893 Speaker 4: been basically subsidizing the rest of the world as has 171 00:09:55,892 --> 00:09:56,533 Speaker 4: been suggested? 172 00:09:57,933 --> 00:10:01,172 Speaker 3: Well, I don't think so, because after all, they have 173 00:10:01,293 --> 00:10:04,813 Speaker 3: made sovereign decisions to lower their tariffs in the context 174 00:10:04,813 --> 00:10:09,413 Speaker 3: of trade agreements, in the context of international trade negotiations. 175 00:10:10,213 --> 00:10:13,013 Speaker 3: These deals have been done and they have been ratified 176 00:10:13,053 --> 00:10:16,453 Speaker 3: by the Congress. There have been processes around these things. 177 00:10:16,852 --> 00:10:20,573 Speaker 3: You know. You know, it's true that, I mean, it 178 00:10:20,973 --> 00:10:23,813 Speaker 3: is the case and in some areas their trading partners 179 00:10:24,413 --> 00:10:27,252 Speaker 3: impose greater tariffs on them than they impose on their 180 00:10:27,293 --> 00:10:29,773 Speaker 3: trading partner. In fact, we've got a few things like 181 00:10:29,813 --> 00:10:33,493 Speaker 3: that for US. But you know, the way to deal 182 00:10:33,533 --> 00:10:36,852 Speaker 3: with these things is to negotiate the reduction of tariffs 183 00:10:37,053 --> 00:10:39,612 Speaker 3: and other trade barriers in the context of trade agreements. 184 00:10:39,773 --> 00:10:42,293 Speaker 3: We have been seeking a trade agreement with the United 185 00:10:42,333 --> 00:10:44,773 Speaker 3: States for a long time, as you know, so I 186 00:10:44,773 --> 00:10:47,773 Speaker 3: don't think that really, you know, holds things up. And 187 00:10:47,773 --> 00:10:49,732 Speaker 3: you know, when you think about this business of who's 188 00:10:49,773 --> 00:10:53,773 Speaker 3: ripping off who I mean our tariff applied tariff right 189 00:10:53,852 --> 00:10:57,693 Speaker 3: to US goods entering news in it is one point 190 00:10:58,012 --> 00:11:02,773 Speaker 3: eight percent, not betwenty percent that the US administration claims 191 00:11:03,012 --> 00:11:03,813 Speaker 3: is being applied. 192 00:11:04,173 --> 00:11:06,893 Speaker 4: Yeah, they can confuse with zest on that they are 193 00:11:06,892 --> 00:11:09,132 Speaker 4: they adding the GST to that is that what's going. 194 00:11:08,933 --> 00:11:11,172 Speaker 3: On there, you know, to be perfect to think. I 195 00:11:11,213 --> 00:11:13,372 Speaker 3: think it's a lot simpler than that. They have simply 196 00:11:13,413 --> 00:11:16,973 Speaker 3: looked at the trade deficit. Their assessment of the trade 197 00:11:17,012 --> 00:11:19,573 Speaker 3: deficit that we have with the United States, which is 198 00:11:19,653 --> 00:11:22,373 Speaker 3: quite small and according to American figures, about one point 199 00:11:22,453 --> 00:11:26,613 Speaker 3: three billion dollars, and they have divided it by the 200 00:11:26,653 --> 00:11:30,612 Speaker 3: total by total trade between New Zealand and the United States, 201 00:11:30,933 --> 00:11:33,173 Speaker 3: and they've come out with a figure close to twenty percent. 202 00:11:33,732 --> 00:11:36,292 Speaker 3: I don't really think they've taken the GSD into it. 203 00:11:36,573 --> 00:11:39,333 Speaker 4: Do we have the ability to cr We got the 204 00:11:39,372 --> 00:11:42,732 Speaker 4: access to correct them on things like that and maybe 205 00:11:42,813 --> 00:11:43,853 Speaker 4: get a TARFF changed. 206 00:11:44,612 --> 00:11:48,772 Speaker 3: Well. The Executive Order says that makes clear that yes, 207 00:11:48,813 --> 00:11:52,372 Speaker 3: there is a room for negotiation if countries bring their 208 00:11:52,372 --> 00:11:55,053 Speaker 3: trade regimes into a line with that of the United States. 209 00:11:55,573 --> 00:11:58,093 Speaker 3: In the United States to be prepared to consider, you know, 210 00:11:58,372 --> 00:12:01,973 Speaker 3: decreasing or limiting the application of these towers. But now 211 00:12:02,132 --> 00:12:03,813 Speaker 3: what's going to see, of course, is one hundred and 212 00:12:03,852 --> 00:12:06,773 Speaker 3: eighty five trading partners around the world or seeking to 213 00:12:06,813 --> 00:12:09,773 Speaker 3: try to do that. We do need to, we do need. 214 00:12:10,093 --> 00:12:11,772 Speaker 4: We need we need to get over there right now 215 00:12:11,773 --> 00:12:13,493 Speaker 4: and start knocking on the door and getting in the 216 00:12:13,573 --> 00:12:14,732 Speaker 4: queue and getting hurt. 217 00:12:15,612 --> 00:12:19,653 Speaker 3: But bear in mind, you know, having said that, and 218 00:12:19,813 --> 00:12:23,492 Speaker 3: you know, tariffs are mad and we have it's going 219 00:12:23,533 --> 00:12:25,013 Speaker 3: to have a it's going to be painful for news 220 00:12:25,012 --> 00:12:29,093 Speaker 3: in and exports, no doubt. But we are in the 221 00:12:29,173 --> 00:12:33,413 Speaker 3: least terrified group. So there are others that have got 222 00:12:33,533 --> 00:12:36,333 Speaker 3: much greater problems than us, and including a number of 223 00:12:36,533 --> 00:12:40,053 Speaker 3: you know, you know, substantial economies like the European Union 224 00:12:40,333 --> 00:12:43,893 Speaker 3: twenty percent, or in India twenty seven percent, you know, 225 00:12:44,132 --> 00:12:47,453 Speaker 3: Israel seventeen percent, of staunch ally of the United States, 226 00:12:47,653 --> 00:12:49,973 Speaker 3: a number of ones in Southeast Asia, and here I say, 227 00:12:50,012 --> 00:12:52,533 Speaker 3: even in the Pacific, why did. 228 00:12:52,413 --> 00:12:54,732 Speaker 4: They go to They went to Cambodia pretty hard as well, 229 00:12:55,372 --> 00:12:56,172 Speaker 4: forty nine percent. 230 00:12:56,293 --> 00:12:59,813 Speaker 3: I mean for a least developed economy like Cambodia. Frankly 231 00:12:59,973 --> 00:13:03,052 Speaker 3: that I find that splicable when the rest of the 232 00:13:03,093 --> 00:13:05,252 Speaker 3: world is giving you know, duty free access of a 233 00:13:05,252 --> 00:13:08,653 Speaker 3: lot of these countries. But there's also Fiji thirty two percent, 234 00:13:09,293 --> 00:13:13,812 Speaker 3: in Vanuatu twenty three percent. They're even taxing the Norfolk 235 00:13:13,892 --> 00:13:16,372 Speaker 3: Island at twenty nine percent. I don't know what in 236 00:13:16,413 --> 00:13:19,852 Speaker 3: earth Norfolk Island that much. 237 00:13:22,132 --> 00:13:25,732 Speaker 2: Stephen, fascinating times and thank you very much for giving 238 00:13:25,773 --> 00:13:27,333 Speaker 2: us some time today. Really appreciate it. 239 00:13:28,213 --> 00:13:30,773 Speaker 3: You're very welcome. More to watch on the space. 240 00:13:30,933 --> 00:13:34,333 Speaker 2: Absolutely there is. That is Stephen Jacoby, Executive director of 241 00:13:34,372 --> 00:13:37,652 Speaker 2: the International Business Forum, an international trade specialist. 242 00:13:38,252 --> 00:13:40,933 Speaker 1: For more from News Talk st B, listen live on 243 00:13:40,973 --> 00:13:43,933 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 244 00:13:44,012 --> 00:13:46,573 Speaker 1: you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.