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Speaker 1: Very sober scene your political correspondence with US. Now, Hey, Barrett,

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Speaker 1: good afternoon. Hither so China has responded to our spy report,

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Speaker 1: has it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not surprisingly it's come out with fairly strong views

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Speaker 2: on it. The other day. You'll be aware that the

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Speaker 2: nded SIS they identified examples, they said of the People's

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Speaker 2: Republic of China influenced their influence here, and they said

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Speaker 2: it smacked heavily of foreign interference. Well, the Chinese have

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Speaker 2: come out and said that look, the fabricated There's no

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Speaker 2: such thing happening in this country. A spokesman for the

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Speaker 2: Chinese embassy, he said the allegations were entirely baseless, baseless

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Speaker 2: and nothing but a figment of the imagination or sheer fabrication.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting, isn't it. I mean, China is always being

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Speaker 2: hammered in this country, I find, whereas the US gets

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Speaker 2: away scot free. The US has always had attached to

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Speaker 2: their embassy a CIA person there, but we don't take

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Speaker 2: much notice of that. But whenever it comes to the Chin,

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Speaker 2: and we've got to remember we are a trading nation.

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Speaker 2: Our two way trade with China's thirty eight billion dollars

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Speaker 2: a year last year you look at the United States.

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Speaker 2: The two way trade with the United States is thirteen

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Speaker 2: point four billion. We don't have a free trade agreement

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Speaker 2: with them. And I'm not saying that we should sweep

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Speaker 2: under the carpet anything that may be going on in

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Speaker 2: this country. But look, there are other countries that try

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Speaker 2: and buy influence in this country as well. And it

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Speaker 2: reminded me of the Huawei situation where they were barred

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Speaker 2: from taking part in the Ultra Fast broadband rollout, and

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Speaker 2: that was again an a GCSB doctrine that said that

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Speaker 2: Chinese there could be some spying going on if this

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Speaker 2: telecommunications company gets the contract. They still got part of

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Speaker 2: the contract, but not all of the contract. And this

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Speaker 2: is the biggest telecommunication supplier in the world. And at

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Speaker 2: the time it was twenty nineteen. I went to China

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Speaker 2: to Beijing with Jasin Dadurn, who spent less than twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours there. It was a sole trip to China

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Speaker 2: during her prime ministership. And I went a couple of

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Speaker 2: days earlier and talked to Huawei to see, you know,

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Speaker 2: what their organization was like. They don't buy you, they

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Speaker 2: just tell you the story. And I'm not saying that

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Speaker 2: we swallow at lock Stock and Barrel, because you know,

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Speaker 2: you've got to be objective about this, and I'm sure

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Speaker 2: there is some sort of interference that goes on in

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Speaker 2: this country, just as there is with other major powers here.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but Barry, what are you saying to us that

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Speaker 1: you think that we should be a little nicer to

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Speaker 1: China and then just ease up on them a wee bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we should. Yeah, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: why bite the hand that feed.

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Speaker 1: Because we're a liberal democracy and they're not. Well, that's true,

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Speaker 1: and we want to defend being a liberal democracy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's fine, but that's why. But well, how

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Speaker 2: have they undermined New Zealand's democracy?

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Speaker 1: Well, apparently according to this report. Hello, Barry, did you

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Speaker 1: know that there were two Chinese spies in parliament just

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Speaker 1: the other day until we kick them out?

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Speaker 2: Well, how don't we know there aren't other spies in parliament?

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Speaker 1: Well we don't, but that's what we know, and we

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Speaker 1: know you you asked me direct question, and they are

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Speaker 1: trying to influence their dis.

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Speaker 2: In fact, what they do is they center their attention

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Speaker 2: and my view on China as opposed to other nations

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Speaker 2: around this world.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because China is the biggest threat in our region. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's like that. That's like if there's a

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Speaker 1: giant bully in the room, going, are you focusing too

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Speaker 1: much on the bully? But the bully is literally bullying you.

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Speaker 2: But it also feeds these.

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Speaker 1: Areas you're getting some money from China or something.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I just think that, you know, it's it's

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Speaker 2: got to be fair truck with all nations, and we

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Speaker 2: are and we should never forget it a trading nation.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and that's not.

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Speaker 2: To say that they should undermine our democracy. And I

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Speaker 2: don't think for one moment they're doing that. Yes they are, No,

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Speaker 2: they haven't. They haven't had any influence in parliament at all.

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Speaker 1: They had two spies.

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Speaker 2: In parliament, maybe they had, what did they do there?

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Speaker 1: Would not but there's nothing. Well that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: And they got busted and kicked out.

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Speaker 2: Well that's cool, so they can be there, But what

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Speaker 2: are they doing?

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Speaker 1: Barry with respect though, are you not being slightly naive

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Speaker 1: if you think that we should treat China the same

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Speaker 1: way as we treat the US. Given the US as

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Speaker 1: a liberal diviracy, we.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, we look at the form of government, and

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Speaker 2: we say, yes, we're closer to the United States. Although

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Speaker 2: don't forget when Donald Trump, if he gets in, he's

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Speaker 2: going to impose a tariff of ten percent on all

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Speaker 2: our own imports into the United States. So it's nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he's not cool either, hey. But which brings

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Speaker 1: us to actually the sovereignty question around this new space

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Speaker 1: link that we've signed up.

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Speaker 2: Like Star Wars, isn't it. And that's probably why the

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Speaker 2: Chinese are a bit sensitive at the moment, because we've

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Speaker 2: signed up to what they call Operation Olympic Defender, and

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Speaker 2: that's with the United States, and we're sending a liaison

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Speaker 2: officer to the United States to work there for two years.

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Speaker 2: With this organization. It's the countries that belong to Australia,

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Speaker 2: the UK, can, and the United States are leading it,

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Speaker 2: of course, and so we've you know, France has been

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Speaker 2: invited but in fact says that can't guarantee sovereignty. Judith

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Speaker 2: Collins to face Minister says, look, our sole representative from

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Speaker 2: the military that is there. They'll operate under New Zealand

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Speaker 2: military control.

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Speaker 1: Just the one, please God.

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Speaker 2: I think the America's quite a bit of an argument about.

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Speaker 1: That one, very hey, thank you very much. Well, wrap

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Speaker 1: the political week that was when you come back at

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Speaker 1: about quarter pass likes is very Soper, our senior political correspondent.

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