1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Anti 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Semitic sentiment has risen globally since the war in Gaza began, 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: including in our own part of the world. A man 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: has been charged after a Melbourne synagogue was set a 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: light last Friday. The alleged anti Semitic attack has seen 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: the country's Home Affairs Minister describe it as an attack 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: on Australia. The attacks prompted the country's Labor Party to 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: push for reforming the school curriculum to teach children about antisemitism. 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: But these kind of anti Jewish attitudes aren't reserved for 11 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: our trans Tasman neighbors. An Enzi Jewish Council report last 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: year found that in the twelve months from October seven, 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, there were two hundred and twenty seven 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: and recorded anti Semitic incidents, a jump from one hundred 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: and sixty six in the eight and a half years prior. 16 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: So. 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: How has the Gaza conflict exacerbated these tensions and how 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: can the Jewish faith be separated from the actions of 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: the State of Israel today? On the front page. Holocaust 20 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: Center of New Zealand chair Deborah Hart joins us to 21 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: discuss the rise of antisemitism here and how we might 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: be able to combat it. Deborah, what do you make 23 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: of the alleged arson attack on a Melbourne synagogue at 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: the weekend. 25 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: Well, there's been increasing levels of anti Semitism end violent 26 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: action aimed at Jewish people and institutions in Australia, culminating 27 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: on Friday, with actually three separate but aligned incidents, the 28 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: fire bombing of a synagogue, the fire bombing and vandalism 29 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: of a business, and some anti masked extremist terrorizing diners 30 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: at an Israeli owned restaurant, and miss Norm chanting death 31 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 2: to the IDF. This comes after numerous incidents of jew hatred, 32 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: fire bombings, hatefield rhetoric and threats of violence. So it's actually, 33 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: unfortunately not surpriser. 34 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the same city where we saw 35 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: a neo Nazi protest out in the open. It seems 36 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: like this type of hate has been bubbling away at 37 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: the surface there for some time now. 38 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,839 Speaker 2: Yes, and we shouldn't feel too high and mighty ourselves 39 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: because there's been skyrocketing levels of jew hatred in this 40 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: country as well, and really pretty nasty incidents happening here. 41 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: It's very very similar tracks that we're seeing in Australia 42 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: to what we're seeing here as well. We've see skyrocketing 43 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: levels of anti Semitism, particularly since the seventh October, but 44 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 2: it was increasing prior to that time as well. 45 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: What are some of the types of abuse you've seen 46 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: against the Jewish community here in New Zealand? 47 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: Gosh, how long have you got at the Holocaust Center 48 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 2: of New Zealand. We did a survey about this time 49 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: last year. Actually eighty percent of parents who answered see 50 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: their children had suffered anti Semitic incidents at school. What 51 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: does that look like? Well, we're dealing with a teacher 52 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: who demanded of a three year old in a day 53 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: care to answer if he was Israeli and then man 54 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: handled him three times. A Jewish student was given a 55 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: haih Hitler salute and punched in the face. A Jewish 56 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: child's uniform was covered in anti Semitic slogans and symbols. 57 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: These are all separate attacks. A Jewish child was repeatedly harassed, 58 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: pushed to the ground, and his kippa the skull cat 59 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: knocked off his head and told he can't wear that here. Worse, 60 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: worse awful in universities, avert support for Humus, which is 61 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: a terrorist organization named such by the New Zealand government, 62 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: repeated calls to globalize the into Fada, campaigns at universities 63 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 2: to rid students and academics of Jews who support Israel's 64 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: right to exist. We've had a Jewish family had an 65 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: anti Semitic campaign targeted at all of their neighbors. We've 66 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: had at the Holocaust Center of New Zealand. Like many 67 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: Jewish institutions, we regularly receive hate mail. We have had 68 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 2: the graffiti was it last month in Wellington that stated 69 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 2: I hated Jews before it was called. There was an 70 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: assault against an Israeli tourists last month. There's been an 71 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: assault at a vigil for the hostages held in Gaza. 72 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 2: I mean, I can go on and on and on, 73 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 2: you know, and it includes Jewish businesses being doped, boycotted 74 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: and attacked, and demands of artists Gewish artists in museums 75 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: and musicians and artists to condem as well if they 76 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: want to keep their exhibitions in these gigs. I mean 77 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: it is comprehensive. It runs the gamut of violent assaults 78 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: to hateful retruck. 79 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 3: The punk band Bob Villan have said that they are 80 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: being targeted for speaking up after their comments during a 81 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: Glastonbury show were branded anti Semitic, and that they now 82 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 3: face a police investigation. The Rab Duo led an anti 83 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 3: Israeli military chant during their Glastonbury set at the weekend. 84 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 3: The BBC has been criticized for continuing to show the 85 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 3: live stream of the performance on Saturday. In a statement, 86 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 3: the band said, today a good many people would have 87 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: you believe a punk band is the number one threat 88 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: to world peace. Last week it was a Palestine pressure group. 89 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 3: The week before that it was another band. Where not 90 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 3: for the death of Jews, Arabs or any other race 91 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 3: or group of people, Where for the dismantling of a 92 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 3: violent treat machine. 93 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of this sentiment against Israel and 94 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: the IDF has come from pro Palestinian protesters or those 95 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: opposed to what's happened or happening in Gaza. And of 96 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: course the events of October seven were horrific and inexcusable. 97 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: The conflict over the last two years in Gaza has 98 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: been extremely violent, as well, there's no denying that, and 99 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,799 Speaker 1: there have been reports of residents being shot and killed 100 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: while trying to reach aid, children starving, injured unable to 101 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: be treated. But is it right to say that the 102 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: actions of IDF are not indicative of the feelings of 103 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: all Jewish people, just the same as the actions of 104 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: har Mass can't be blamed on all Palestinians. 105 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, and Israel as a sovereign nation state, it's government. 106 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 2: It does what its government is going to do. Jewish 107 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 2: New Zealanders are not responsible for the actions of a 108 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: foreign nation state. And Jewish people have all kinds of 109 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 2: feelings about what Israel is doing. But it's not anti 110 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: submitic to criticize Israel. But it is anti submitic to 111 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: make Jewish people here responsible somehow for the actions of 112 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: the state of Israel. And we don't seem to do 113 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: that of any other group of people. 114 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: Well, look at the Muslim faith after nine to eleven. 115 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, they also came in for quite a barrage, 116 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: and you know that's not right either. But you know, 117 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: you know, we have a war between Russia and Ukraine. 118 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 2: Nobody seems to be going down to the local Russian 119 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: Orthodox church and trying to set it light. We're not 120 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: making Russian Orthodox people responsible for gosh, how many people 121 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: have been killed in that war, well over one hundred 122 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 2: and fifty thousand people. They're not responsible for it. Syrian 123 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: people here aren't responsible for Syria killing over six hundred 124 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: thousand of its own citizens in its civil war. You know, 125 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: you can have all kinds of views about Israel, and 126 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: you can feel a great deal of empathy and sympathy 127 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: for innocent Palestinian people who have been caught up in 128 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: this dreadful, dreadful war. Who of us doesn't an ounce 129 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: of empathy feel for, you know, innocent people who have 130 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: been maimed and killed in this war. It's awful. But 131 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you make Jewish people here responsible, 132 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: and it doesn't mean that you call for violent up 133 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: risings here in New Zealand. 134 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: Do you worry about the general backlash towards different religions 135 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: and faith at the moment, I'm thinking of that Destiny Church. 136 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: Brian Tarmaki led protest down Queen Street the other week 137 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: where they burned flags and screamed about Christian values. 138 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: Yes, we seem to be in a period of binary thinking. 139 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: Good and evil and an inability to have tolerance for 140 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: other points of view. I mean you can hold nuanced views. 141 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 2: You can in relation to the Palestinians and Israel. You 142 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: can feel great empathy for Palestinians whilst also feeling empathy 143 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: for the Jewish community. Here. You can think that Israel 144 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: has a right to defend itself whilst not liking what 145 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 2: it's doing. Things to do with aid. You can revere 146 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: Christianity and it bear your faith without denigrating people of 147 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 2: other faiths. It doesn't have to be in either or, 148 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: And we're just seeing the inability for us to talk 149 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: with one another, to understand one another, and to tolerate 150 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: littlone cherish other belief systems. 151 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: What would you like to see done by the government 152 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: or leaders to try and curb some of the sentiment. 153 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's not just government. We all have 154 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: a responsibility here, you know, I'd say too. You know 155 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: we've seen protests in our street ostensibly to support Palestinians. Well, 156 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 2: it doesn't bring peace to the world or support Palestinians 157 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: to have a sign saying globalize the Intero Fada. I mean, 158 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: think about what that is. It is a making violent 159 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 2: terrorism go worldwide. It doesn't help Palestinians to say glory 160 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: to the resistance. If you want to see peace in 161 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 2: the world, including in the Middle East or Gaza, don't 162 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 2: support hatred. Those who chann't for death are not peace activists. 163 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 2: So I'd say to those people, don't stand with those 164 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: signs and don't stand beside those signs. And if you 165 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 2: truly want peace in Gaza, call for an end to 166 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: the war, call for the disarming of Hamas and the 167 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: release of all the hostages. So that's what I say 168 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: to them. We need to protect our Jewish communities. They 169 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: are under enormous threat at the moment. We need police 170 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 2: to take the threats seriously, and I question whether they 171 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: are at the moment. And leaders need to call out 172 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: anti Semitism and other forms of hatred and not stoke it. 173 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 2: It's not just a government. It's not just for the government. 174 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: They have their place, but you know, we all need 175 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 2: to be bringing the temperature down and acting, acting in 176 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 2: the interests of peace and social cohesion here in New Zealand. 177 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that we should have continued, perhaps with 178 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: the hate speech laws that the Labour government proposed, but 179 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: they were subsequently dropped. 180 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: Obviously, you know, I'm not so sure. I'm not so 181 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 2: sure that banning hateful speech has the kind of desired 182 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: effect that we want it to have. I think there 183 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: is something to the argument that at least you can 184 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 2: you know, you can see it, and you can you 185 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: can counter it, you know where it comes from when 186 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 2: it's out there. You know, I'm not sure that a 187 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 2: hate speech law would have added terribly much to the 188 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: equation in the time that we're seeing now. I mean, 189 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 2: after all, you know, I know of an incident that 190 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 2: in front of police, in front of police, a protester 191 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 2: screamed at a Jewish woman, I am going to kill you. 192 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to kill you, you fucking Jewish bitch. He was 193 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: restrained by police, He was physically restrained by police, and 194 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 2: they took no further steps against him. Despite a complaint, 195 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: and despite having witnessed that threat of violence, he did nothing. 196 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 2: They did nothing. So you know, we have rules at 197 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 2: our box that police are not actually utilizing, and they 198 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: and they should and I think, you know, when you 199 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: try and shut down speech, it's it's that that question 200 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: of who's the arbiter of what speeks you allow and 201 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: what speak to you you don't allow. It's it's pretty difficult, 202 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 2: isn't it. Certainly some of the things that we have 203 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 2: been seeing on the streets of New Zealand is terribly worrying, 204 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: and they do stoke hatred of Jewish people. But with 205 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 2: the hate speech laws are the answer, I'm not so sure, a. 206 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 4: Semi you anti. 207 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 5: Anti racist? Rue? 208 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: Are there any key facts that you'd want protesters or 209 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: people to know, the differences perhaps between Israel and the 210 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: IDF and your regular Jewish neighbor, because do you think 211 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: that the lines are blurred in a sense of you're Jewish, 212 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: you must be supporting Israel and all of its actions. 213 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 2: Well, the first thing to say is that teos, like 214 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: everyone else, have the right to support whatever they please. 215 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: But I do think there is a blurring of lines. 216 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 2: I think if you ask most Jewish people in New 217 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: Zealand whether they support the right of Israel to exist, 218 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: they would say yes, just like our government does. And 219 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: it's across party lines. Like governments and national led governments 220 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: have supported the right of Israel to exist, but they 221 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 2: would have many different opinions about what Israel is doing. 222 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: And you know, there is a We're very well known 223 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: saying in the Jewish community, and that is too Jews 224 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: three opinions. There are lots of different different opinions within 225 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: the Jewish community. But Jewish people in New Zealand do 226 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 2: not They do not vote in the Israeli elections. They 227 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: are not part of the Israeli government. They are not 228 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: responsible for what the Israeli government does. And just because 229 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: people support the state of Israel to exist does not 230 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: mean that Jewish people get to be responsible in some 231 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 2: way for the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF. 232 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: They are not one in the same things. Thing to 233 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: say is a bit of empathy in humanity here most 234 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 2: Jewish people. I don't know any Jewish person who doesn't 235 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: have enormous empathy for innocent Palestinian people who have been 236 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: adversely affected in the most profound ways by this war. 237 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 2: But there's another side to the coin, you know, they 238 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: also know lots of people who have been terribly impacted 239 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: by this war in Israel. There are Jewish people in 240 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 2: New Zealand who have family and friends who are still 241 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: held hostage in Gaza. There are Jewish people in New 242 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: Zealand whose family members have been killed in the attacks 243 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: on the seventh of October. Whose families my own included, 244 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: who have been who have spent hours and hours in 245 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: bunkers sheltering from missiles, both since the seventh of October 246 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: and before. So you know, we we you know, as 247 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: a community, we we do feel punch drunk because we 248 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: you know, we we are worried for our family and 249 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 2: our friends. We worry for for Palestinian people who have 250 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 2: been so profoundly affected by this war, and we're having 251 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: to combat the real the real life are due hatred 252 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: in New Zealand, a country that we are citizens of 253 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 2: and we feel is our home. So it is a 254 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 2: tremendously difficult time for Jewish people living in New Zealand. 255 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 2: And I just say too to those who are ramping 256 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 2: up this hatred, to take pause and to take more 257 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 2: care and what you say and what you do, and 258 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: who you will stand beside and what you will stand beside, 259 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: because you know, we can see the effects of it, 260 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: the real life effects is impacting the Jewish community. And 261 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: you know, if you think to yourself, well on not Jewish, 262 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 2: it doesn't affect me. It's about who we are as 263 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 2: a society. And you let one hatred grow, or you'll 264 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 2: let other hatreds grow in due course. So I think 265 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: it's a very worrying time for New Zealand and New Zealanders. 266 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Deborah. 267 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: Go well, Chelsea. 268 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 269 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 270 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 271 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 272 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front 273 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 274 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.