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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks, that'd be.

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Speaker 2: A couple of New Zealand banks are now forcing behavioral

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Speaker 2: and device tracking onto their customers. I had absolutely no

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Speaker 2: idea about this whatsoever. But Paul Spain is all over

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Speaker 2: the details. He's the chief executive of Guerrilla Technology and

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Speaker 2: he's here.

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Speaker 3: With us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Get a Paul, Good morning Jack. So what's the deal.

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Speaker 3: Well, I had a few people send me some info

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Speaker 3: about this during the week, and I thought this isn't

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Speaker 3: really a big deal. I mean, who cares if they

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Speaker 3: track how you move your phone around and you know,

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Speaker 3: how you swipe and whatnot. But as I dug into it,

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Speaker 3: it's actually concerning me because there's a lot of information

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Speaker 3: that they gather down to the apps that you might

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Speaker 3: be running on your phone in some cases, and they

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Speaker 3: create what's I guess, a biometric behavioral profile on you,

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Speaker 3: and so that data if it gets lost, which we

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Speaker 3: kind of know that, you know, organizations aren't very good

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Speaker 3: at securing private data, can create a problem because really,

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Speaker 3: as an individual person, it's a little bit like a

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Speaker 3: fingerprint or something else. It's unlikely to really change much

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Speaker 3: during your lifetime, So if that information is lost, then

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Speaker 3: you know, that comes out of your control. But then

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Speaker 3: there are concerns around, well, what else could they do

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Speaker 3: with this information If they're tracking all the apps that

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Speaker 3: you run, for instance, are you installing some apps that

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Speaker 3: they don't think fits the risk profile? Maybe you've got

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Speaker 3: a gambling app or a dating app, porn crypto, whatever

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Speaker 3: it is that they think kind of changes the risk profile.

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Speaker 3: So they're going to use all of this data and

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Speaker 3: then decide whether you can use their banking services.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure about and a whole lot of

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Speaker 2: you know, there haven't been a lot of publicity about

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Speaker 2: it necessarily.

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Speaker 3: No, Well, when I looked, I saw that I think

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Speaker 3: it was Westpac as well or on this and they

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Speaker 3: disclosed it back in twenty twenty three, so it's actually

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Speaker 3: been floating around for a time. But it's one of

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Speaker 3: those things that you know, it comes up in the

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Speaker 3: terms and conditions for using your apps, and you know,

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Speaker 3: you see so many things and you have to accept

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Speaker 3: them otherwise you can't you can't use online banking. So

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Speaker 3: it's one of those things that's it's probably just you know,

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Speaker 3: slipped by most of us, but yeah, certainly raising a

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Speaker 3: few concerns out there, and as we sort of see

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Speaker 3: the digitization of everything, you know, it's just this sort

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Speaker 3: of slow crawl where there's more and more systems that

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Speaker 3: are surveiling us in one way or another.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. True, that's very interesting. Warner, as in the big

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Speaker 2: publishing company, has just signed a new AI deal with Suno,

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Speaker 2: So tell us about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is interesting. Sono's the website you can

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Speaker 3: go to and basically, you know, fill in a few

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Speaker 3: few details and it'll create some music for you, a

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Speaker 3: song in any style and the lyrics, the you know,

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Speaker 3: the whole thing, and it's it's sounds pretty amazing the output.

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Speaker 3: But of course, the way that they are operating this

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Speaker 3: is AI. Just like all of the other AI systems,

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Speaker 3: it's trained on what's out there. And this of course

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Speaker 3: has got the musicians and the publishers all up and arms.

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Speaker 3: So we've had a number of court cases going on.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, here we are with a with a deal

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Speaker 3: being signed between Suno and and Warner Music which will

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Speaker 3: enable their artists to be able to opt in to

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Speaker 3: having the AI use use their their sound, their voice,

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Speaker 3: their their style, and to create new music.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why any artists would agree up to this.

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Speaker 2: I mean I would agree to this. It just I mean,

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Speaker 2: maybe they're getting paid gazillions of dollars for it, but

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Speaker 2: really would if you're an artist who's you know, had

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Speaker 2: international success, would you want your voice being used by

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Speaker 2: other people creating music without your explicit oversight.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's effectively we kind of what we've had to date, right,

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Speaker 3: it's been a whild west. There's been no regulation, so

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Speaker 3: you you have had an element of that going on

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Speaker 3: because it's it's trained on on all those voices. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm really curious how this plays out. Will there be

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Speaker 3: any big artists who who jump on and support there

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Speaker 3: being a proliferation of effectively cloning of their music? You know?

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Speaker 3: Will we see this bring new music from artists that

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Speaker 3: have that have passed away? Have we got the next

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Speaker 3: you know, new album coming from a you know, a

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Speaker 3: Michael Jackson or Elvis Presley or something, Right, Yeah, these

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Speaker 3: are some of the sorts of possibilities that are out there.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I think there's probably a few questions as to, yeah,

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Speaker 3: whether this makes sense or not, but you know, I

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Speaker 3: think it's it's going to happen in some form.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I suppose at least this way, the artists

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Speaker 2: are going to be paid something. Thank you for that, Baul.

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Speaker 2: That's very interesting. That is Paul Spain, the chief executive

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Speaker 2: of Guerrilla Technology, filling in for our textbook segment this weekend.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talks' b from nine Am, saturday or follow

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