1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Kyoda. 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Another one 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 2: dollar deal and another big shakeup for the New Zealand 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: media industry. SkyTV has snapped up broadcast Network three and 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: its associated platforms and we'll have control of them by August. First. 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: It sees the exit of another international player in the 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: local media landscape, with Warner Brothers Discovery retreating a year 9 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: after it closed down three's news outfit news Hub. So 10 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 2: what does this new media merger mean for the industry 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: and could this change how you watch the All Blacks Today? 12 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: On the Front Page, host of the Fold podcast asked 13 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: for the spin off, Duncan Grieve is with us to 14 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 2: discuss how this shakes things up. Duncan, how shocked were 15 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: you about this news? 16 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: I don't think shocked is the right word, because there'd 17 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: been a sort of a slow drifting together and rising 18 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: the the idea for a while, but a lot of 19 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: things get floated around and a rumored that never actually 20 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,279 Speaker 1: come to anything. So not shocked, but suddenly surprised and 21 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: just excited because I think this industry needs some dynamism 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: and needs a level of competition, and three in Sky 23 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: just makes sense together. Sometimes you see things come together 24 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't know about that, but this 25 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: you're like, okay, this makes sense and and so what 26 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: it does for the the sort of energy, the dynamism, 27 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: the level of competition within the industry that was that 28 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: was the kind of the big thing that kind of 29 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: just jumped out to everyone as soon as it happened. 30 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: So when you say, come on competition in the industry, 31 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: you meaning TV and Z. 32 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: I think, well, look, I haven't spending twenty on TV 33 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: and Z yet, and I'm sure, well, I'm sure if 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: I did, they would say that, no, this is great. 35 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: We welcome competition. I know the line. That's kind of 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: why sometimes I don't even want to ask, but I 37 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: think fundamentally, TV and Z has always been number one. 38 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: It's always had a huge share of audience. But more 39 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: than that, it's even had a bigger share of the 40 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: advertising market. It makes roughly three hundred million dollars in 41 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: advertising revenue versus around one hundred for three. But Sky 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: is sort of rapidly gaining there. It's put a lot 43 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: of emphasis on there. And if you just dropped one 44 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in ad revenue. Not to make it 45 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: all about the commercial or about the ads, but it 46 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: just puts them on a much more even footing. And fundamentally, 47 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: I do think that I don't think this is any 48 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: kind of existing challenge for TV ins there. But what 49 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: we do have here is too much more balanced than 50 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: well matched opponents in the local TV market. Then we've 51 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: probably hadn't quite some time. 52 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: Right, So a one dollar deal or is it really 53 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: I mean, they're not actually buying like people will see 54 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: that and then it's I'm got a couple of bunks. 55 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 2: I could have brought that up to five on trade me, 56 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: what does it actually mean when a company buys another 57 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 2: company for a dollar? 58 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 1: Say, as far as I know, there is an actual 59 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: transaction you do walk into and it's a bit of 60 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: a photo op you hand over the dollar coin kind 61 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: of thing. But obviously that is a symbolic gesture. It 62 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: says we will take on the company as a going concern, 63 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: including and it was the major thing all of the 64 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: ongoing contracts. You know that three has been a loss 65 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: making enterprise viewed in isolation for quite some time. That said, 66 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: people have always thought it could be more than it 67 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: currently is. It's why it's for what I understand to 68 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: be US twenty million less than five years ago. But 69 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: it's kind of been a bit of an orphane like 70 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: it had been with a radio company. It's never quite 71 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: had the scale to properly compete with a tvN's head. 72 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: And now that it's next to this subscription beast with 73 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: a million customers, that is Sky a real powerhouse and sports. 74 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: Sky already spends more money on content than anyone else. 75 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: It's now just got another place to look at to 76 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: put it and a place that people are used to 77 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: spending a lot of time with them that they really love. 78 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: So it's a whole new canvas for Sky to put 79 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: its content on and to kind of, you know, sort 80 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: of see what free to wear at real scale looks 81 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: like for that company. 82 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: So if we wanted to get into it, why does 83 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: Sky want three? We know that three or why three 84 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 2: would want Sky? But why the other way around? 85 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: Tie by on your earlier question, Like they could have 86 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: got more money for it than a dollar, but they 87 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: wanted it to go to a good home that can 88 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: be like a corporate reputation thing. Sometimes it's actually they 89 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: just really do care about the people, and they still 90 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: you know, WBD still operate in this market. They've still 91 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: got a production house here, they've still got the HBO 92 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: Max brand, which is currently also sort of effectively leased 93 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: to Sky. So they want to be part of the 94 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: industry here. So just selling it to whoever is the 95 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: highest bo that are irrespective with their responsible owner's that's 96 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: a different thing. So I don't think that they'd want 97 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: to be in that business. In terms of why Sky 98 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: would want it, Sky for the longest time was a 99 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: sort of castle on the hill. It was wasn't really 100 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: part of the New Zealand media industry. It had a 101 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: totally different business model, which was, you know, subscriptions and advertising. 102 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: It just wasn't a big part of what it did. 103 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: It almost didn't need to be. It was so profitable 104 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: without it that it and part of what you were 105 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: paying for was a different kind of TV, you know, 106 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: that TV which had much less ads on it than 107 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: the terrestrial free to air TV that you were used to. 108 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: Now the game has changed. Everyone from Netflix on down 109 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: is doing not just subscriptions but ads as well, and 110 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: so for Sky, which has already got a great subscription business, 111 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: it's already trying really harder in ads and has been 112 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: making progress there when a lot of people are flat 113 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: to declining. This just opens up a whole lot more 114 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: audience and one hundred million dollars worth of advertising revenue 115 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: that it can plug into its subscription and content portfolio. 116 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: So it's kind of a no brainer for them. 117 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: So they come on board, Sky does, and they will 118 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: presumably do a whole bunch of cost cutting as they 119 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: normally do. You know, there'll be some back office functions 120 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: at free that Sky's already doing. 121 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: All that sort of stuff will happen. 122 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 4: You'd imagine that kind of thing. I mean, we're driving 123 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 4: in there. But they're saying that this would result in 124 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 4: a sustainable ebit uplift of at least ten million dollars 125 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 4: from financial year twenty twenty eight, So they are looking 126 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 4: quite some years out before they're really really seeing the 127 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 4: games of this. But I guess if you're thinking in 128 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 4: a bigger sense that sports rights play a big part 129 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 4: in how people make money out of broadcasting, and if 130 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 4: you've got a free to wear option that you can 131 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 4: offer cut TV ins out, that's the one for you. Later, Yeah, interesting, is. 132 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: It all about rugby? When it comes to Sky. I 133 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: mean I've had to chat with some people around the office. 134 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: They say, why do you still subscribe to Sky back home? 135 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: We call something similar like foxtail. Why would you still 136 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: have a subscription to foxtail when you've got all of 137 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: these other options And one of the main things is 138 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: sport Rugby International rights for Football or AFL pops up 139 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: on the screen sometimes does Sky Sport nine or something? 140 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 3: What happens to. 141 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: All of those like is that going to be a 142 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: real game changer for them? 143 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: Live sport is the last great driver of TV audiences. 144 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: You know, you can get hits here and there, and 145 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: there are lots of there are lots of properties which 146 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: still work. But you know, in the US, for example, 147 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: something like ninety of the one hundred biggest TV audiences 148 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: of the year are NFL games live NFL games, and 149 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: so absolutely for Sky. Well it's not the only thing. 150 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: Rugby cricket, you know, these kind of properties are a 151 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: huge part of what makes Sky a very sticky product 152 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: for the person paying the bill. There's no other way 153 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: to see it, and certainly not not a good way 154 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: to see it live. And that's where I think from 155 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: a looking at the competitive dynamic with TV and Z 156 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: where it gets really interesting because TV and z's got 157 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: a big newsroom, you know, three famously shut its down 158 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: its newsroom down last year. It's got a really good 159 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: library of New Zealand content and ongoing shows and personalities 160 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: that people are really familiar with. But what it doesn't 161 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: have as much of as sport. And in fact that 162 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: what sport it has. For example, the New Zealand cricket 163 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: contract is actually going from TV and Z to Sky, 164 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: so you're going to see a really big change in 165 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: what is available. Two three, it's got all the Sky 166 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: Sports contracts. I want to want to give too much 167 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: away for free because then people wouldn't subscribed to Sky. 168 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: But certainly it can put live sport there or even 169 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: delayed sport, and that's a real differentiator from TV and Z. 170 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: But it also has, like the HBO Max contract, it 171 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: has a whole bunch of really premium TV. Again, probably 172 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: won't be a first run there, but it can play 173 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: it out, you know, weeks or months later, and what 174 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: the channel is to consumers has the potential to change 175 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: in quite a positive way. That will give TV and Z. 176 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: It's a real well resourced and differentiated competitor in a 177 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: way that probably has never dealt with before. 178 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 2: What's the point of media companies merging now? I can't 179 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: think of any really good examples off the top of 180 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: my head, but I'm thinking, like Disney owns I don't 181 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: know everything now, like Fox and stuff? Right, and or 182 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 2: is that the other one? I mean, this is asking you, ESBN, 183 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: I mean, and then you've got the Fox side of things. 184 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: They own They own Fox now, they own Fox, not 185 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: Fox News, but Fox the twentieth century, fix century TV 186 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: and movie studio business. 187 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yah, So it's kind of like a media company. 188 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: I kind of think of it visually rolling along and 189 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: just collecting up all of these smaller companies to a 190 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 2: point where it's just this huge blob of content and 191 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 2: news and money. An is there any point being one 192 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: of those smaller blobs on the side anymore? 193 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: I think if you're a small blob, I love this. 194 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: While you're describing this. The hard thing is that there 195 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: are a lot of giant blobs around, and as big 196 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: as we think of some company like Disney, you know 197 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: there are They're right next to Netflix, which is now 198 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: a significantly bigger blob at least from a market capitalization standpoint. 199 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: But even Netflix, which is like a five hundred billion 200 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: US company, it's looking up at Google, which is you know, 201 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: YouTube is bigger again in terms of audiences, and then 202 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: it has all its other businesses. Meta has a huge 203 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: share of the sort of social video market. So the 204 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: market for people's tension is dominated by a few enormous 205 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: players and they have huge structural advantages. The likes of 206 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: YouTube and Metha. They don't buy content advance, that don't 207 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: commission it. It just sort of comes to them, and 208 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: that's a huge structural advantage for their YouTube actually shares 209 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: a lot with its creators, which Meta doesn't do. But 210 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: there is just a scale and a business model thing 211 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: there that is really hard to beat. So if you're 212 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: a small player bundling a lot of different types of 213 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: business together because some of the back office, whether it's finance, 214 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: hr technology, that kind of stuff, the more channels and 215 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: audiences that you can spread that across your head sales, 216 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: the more you can spread those things across, the better 217 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: your little blob has a chance of surviving against the 218 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: really big blobs that are headquartered in the Silicon Valley 219 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: have their non and all finance has run out of 220 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: Dublin and pay text precisely nowhere for the most part. 221 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: In terms of media companies like this merging, what does 222 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: it mean for creatives? I did see that Sky TV 223 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: CEO say that they are interested in more local content, 224 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: and that's obviously something that they've heard from all the 225 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: comments and stuff regarding Netflix taking our dime and like 226 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 2: you know, the people have been saying Netflix should say, 227 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: pay a tax so we can create more New Zealand content, 228 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: And that really stuck out to me from listening to 229 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: her about that. 230 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 3: Do you believe that it will lead to that? 231 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: Well, I think if you think about content in a 232 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: very broad sense, Sky probably makes more local content than 233 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: anyone else because of the amount of sport that producers, 234 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: and then there's all the wrap around sports shows. We 235 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: don't tend to think about that, and the production sector, 236 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: which is where a lot of that sort of the 237 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: drums beating around Netflix's commissioning locally comes from. They don't 238 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: typically think about sports, but Sky screens and producers and 239 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: has hard working people go all over the country to 240 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: bring you NPC and and all kinds of different sports properties. 241 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: They also, you know, through New Zealand on air and 242 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: you know, through some commercial partners at ships make some 243 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: local content as well, but not nearly so much as 244 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, the likes of TVNZ for example, Three has 245 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: massively pulled back from that itself. You know, it used 246 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: to have multiple news bulletins. Now it just has the one. 247 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't make it itself. Stuff manufactures that for them, 248 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: So they have basically trenched to the point where they 249 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: said the only local content will make will either be 250 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: funded by new zeand on air or be commercially funded. 251 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: Whether that remains the case for the combined Sky three business, 252 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: I do think that's an open question. If you look 253 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: at you know, the battle of the big blobs again, 254 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: what's a differentiator for our local blobs? It is where 255 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: they are, it's and they can't go anywhere else. You know, 256 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: the likes of Sky and TV and Z are in 257 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: and of this country. And how do you signal that, 258 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: and how do you do you differentiate yourself and the 259 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: likes of you know, Disney Plus, Amazon, Prime Netflix. It 260 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: is actually with your local content. So that's the sort 261 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: of the upside too, and the argument for them them 262 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: commissioning more local shows in future. 263 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 3: I guess. 264 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: The three brand has always been seen as a bit 265 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 2: of a renegade. Hey, up against the corporate and very 266 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: serious TV Z. That's where you get serious things. And 267 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: when TV three, especially i'm thinking three News, came into 268 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: the play, it was much more fun. It was a bit, 269 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: you know, a bit out there. My producer actually told 270 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: me about this iconic footage of Blenda Todd taking the 271 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: Grim Reaper through the office when the network was in 272 00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: its infancy. 273 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 3: It's the same reception that's been here since the beginning. 274 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: You've come about the jobs. 275 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 3: The same reception that hosted host Belinda Todd along with 276 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 3: the Grim Reaper when TV three went into receivership. 277 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm too groad, Angy Morgan. 278 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: You can have me for one thousand dollars a week, 279 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: plus all the land that was taken from my tribe. 280 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 3: The receiver th on was just a month after Nightline launched. 281 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: We're just running with scissors with a hair on fire, 282 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 2: and no one expected anything of it, so. 283 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 3: We did what we liked. 284 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: And there have been so many owners over the years, 285 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: so much change at three. Do you think this deal 286 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: is going to bring some long term stability, not only 287 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: two three, but perhaps the wide media landscape. 288 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that that renegade spirit of 289 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: three was very deliberately cultivated. It was a classic challenger 290 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: brand and and it hired personalities who had a particular 291 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: sense of fun and playfulness, and it was just so 292 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: well executed against that over its sort of first twenty 293 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: years or so, to the point where if you look 294 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: at some of the biggest names on TV and Z, 295 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, the likes of Hillary Barry and John Campbell, 296 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: they were three lifers before they eventually made their way 297 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: across there. Not that they wanted to be a development 298 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: house for talent, but that's just sort of it shows 299 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: just how admired they were at that capacity. In terms 300 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: of how three has lived its whole life. It has 301 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: had huge amounts of debt, it's had reluctant owners, it's 302 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: had bankruptcies, and it's just kept on trucking. You know, 303 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: that's their understanding of the world is that way up there, 304 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: something weird's always happening, and you just got to do 305 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: your job, and so, you know, there was My understanding 306 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: is that TVNZ went and camped outside Flower Street, which 307 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: is only going to be their home for a matter 308 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: of a few days I think for three to sort 309 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: of get their reaction to this, and I'm like, you 310 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: should know that this is the most normal thing that's 311 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: happened to three from an ownership perspective, in probably its 312 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: entire existence, and so it will have I would have thought, 313 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: no impact on them, kind of emotionally, but equally if 314 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: you sort of step back a bit, it's obviously a 315 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: great day for them. You know, I think when you're 316 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: owned by a giant multinational, and especially when you're off 317 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: to the side of what their core business is, you know, 318 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: you should never really count your chickens. But when you're 319 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: owned by a publicly listed New Zealand media company, you're 320 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: part of the furniture that you're a really important asset 321 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: to them. And I think that for three Star, you know, 322 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: those who are left, you know, a lot of them 323 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: have gone by the wayside in recent years, but those 324 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: who are still there, who especially those have got a 325 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: kind of connection back to previous eras this this should 326 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: be an amazing moment for them because they're finally at 327 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: a place where they're sort of seen and valued and 328 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: have reason to believe that they can grow and prosper 329 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: and evolve. In a way that has been really hard 330 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: to imagine. For a lot of the last sort of 331 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: probably ten to fifteen years. 332 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 2: In the past, TV and Z has poached some of 333 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: three's biggest hits. I've been told Home and Away is 334 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: probably the biggest, that was the lead in show for 335 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 2: the six PM news for a long time there. And 336 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 2: you've also seen they announce the other week that Graham 337 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: Norton is moving over to TV and Z. They even 338 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: took Broken Wood Mysteries from Sky did TV and zed. 339 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: So is this stronger media company perhaps going to put 340 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 2: up a lo a bit more of a fight. 341 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting some of those shows that you listed 342 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily poached from three so much as Three either 343 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: deliberately or unintentionally botched the negotiation on them, and they 344 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: were real losses. You know, some of those, particularly Home 345 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: and Away were real tent poles of how they set 346 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: up their evening. And you know, also give TVNZ credit, 347 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: they knew how to behave in a competitive environment like 348 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: a really strong competitor. They still will be in this situation. 349 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: I think it's less about Three defending what it has 350 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: and it still has a lot, you know, David Lomas 351 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: is still a very beloved property for them. Meretithist Side 352 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: Australia regularly tops the ratings. Basically, comedy and reality TV 353 00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: as locally made genres were largely driven stratgically buy three, 354 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: and while particularly the comedy side and some of the 355 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: reality side TVNS has picked up on it, they were 356 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: definitely fast followers rather than originators of that. And so yeah, 357 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: this absolutely a more robust company to sort of defend 358 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: what three has. But I think what's more instructive and 359 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: interesting about the dealer is if you just look at 360 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: the vast library that Sky has, truly it's one of 361 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: the best in the world. It might be the best 362 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: in the world just because we're a sort of small 363 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: market with less BATV operators across sports, across entertainment. What 364 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: it can do in terms of putting some of that, 365 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: a sampling of that on three and then using that 366 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: as the top of the funnel to say, if you 367 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: like that, there's a whole lot more where that came 368 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: from across s guy's properties, and then advertising that there 369 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: Once that it's all properly put together, strategically understood and executed, 370 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: that should be a pretty formidable machine for them sitting 371 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: aside the whole advertising piece of it, which is the 372 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: obvious stated justification too. 373 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Duncan. 374 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I could talk 375 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: about this all day. 376 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 377 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 378 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 2: at enziherld dot co dot mz. The Front Page is 379 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 380 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 2: our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page 381 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 382 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 2: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.